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Deleted member 32005

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
1,853
yah i dont agree with GoW either. watching an enemy indicator on the bottom of the screen was not very fun or intuitive. if the camera was zoomed out maybe.

spiderman i agree. its up there with odyssey and BotW.

I will defend the spiderman combat too. its not exactly buttery smooth but you can usually tank through if you're having trouble, and when you get a rhythm going its great.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
There's definitely something to having excellent movement in a game. For the most Spider-Man nails it. Sometimes wall crawling is a bit finicky but the rest of it is so damn good. One of the things I noticed early on in Horizon was a quest item you had to pick up off the ground. The radius for the button prompt was pretty tight and it was easy to nudge Aloy too far. It's very minor thing, but the same thing also happened with some backpacks in Spider-Man.

One of the things BotW gets right is climbing up something tall, seeing something cool in the distance and then gliding over to it. That's practically the core loop of that game.

yeah wall crawling could definitely use some work. you can tell the swinging got all the love and care during development.
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
1000%. Just as another poster already mentioned, witcher is an ultimate example of this in that it doesn't have good game feel. It is absolutely one of my favourite games of all time, but getting back into it after leaving for so long is arduous. The story, the world, the art direction, the characters, the concept. PERFECT. But I actually don't want to touch it anymore because at best it's a passable combat experience (it does have depth in a good way), but it doesn't FEEL good. But god of war? I haven't touched it since I beat in July and lent it to a friend (got married and had honeymoon, so bit busy lol) but I still get cravings to play it and think about it. Spiderman has its hooks in me that way and so does Mario. God of War is my favourite of all time, but as far as the other two? Yes they have flaws, but god dammit they're fun. They make me smile just playing
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Good animation, sound design, feedback on actions and the like are all nice things to call attention to, but I think it can get easy to fall into the habit of attributing everything good in a game to a nebulous sense of game feel, when in really good games there's almost definitely a lot more factors that are making it fun over an extended period. There's nothing wrong with liking something for the game feel, but I think it's important to be able to separate it from other factors like balance and level design and things like that to more completely understand what's really making exceptional games stand out.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,153
It's been kind of the opposite for me with regard to Spider-man. It is fun to move about the city, but the overall vibe is too much like a checklist simulator. I understand this has become a common and accepted style of modern games, but I really don't like it and Spider-man—though fun—hasn't really done enough for me to stand apart from other such games.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,118
Spiderman is probably the pinnacle of people loving the character execution and controls so much they pretty much just overlook or don't care about all the flaws.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
Spiderman is probably the pinnacle of people loving the character execution and controls so much they pretty much just overlook or don't care about all the flaws.

100%

I've had so many eye roll inducing moments during spider man (every time a new collectible was introduced, for one), but fuck me it's just a fun game to play
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
I feel like a lot of Nintendo games prioritize this feeling. Although I don't play it a ton Splatoon 2 instantly springs to mind. 60fps helps with this feeling a lot although it's not absolutely necessary. Destiny 2 is another 'amazing feeling' game I've played recently too.

I'm really looking forward to playing GoW and Spider-Man. Spidey especially looks like such fun just swinging around.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,464
Game feel is one of the most important things in a game in my opinion. It adds so much to a games overall value to me, and can either make or break some titles. It's so easy to ignore some flaws when controlling your character or landing an attack feel so good. That's why something like Nioh, which admittedly has some issues, is still one of my favorite games this gen. It's just so satisfying to land those perfect counters, or dodge an attack at just the right time to land that finishing blow.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
I feel like a lot of Nintendo games prioritize this feeling. Although I don't play it a ton Splatoon 2 instantly springs to mind. 60fps helps with this feeling a lot although it's not absolutely necessary. Destiny 2 is another 'amazing feeling' game I've played recently too.

I'm really looking forward to playing GoW and Spider-Man. Spidey especially looks like such fun just swinging around.

getting charger and blaster directs might be the most satisfying thing in any video game. the hd rumble in splatoon 2 is so well implemented also, it's like a subtle extension of the sound design. now there's some best in class sound design, the splatoon devs are unrivaled there. subtle differences in the sound effect when your teammate throws out a bomb vs. the enemy team, the pitch of your ink hitting an enemy dictating how close they are to being splat, the sound when a special is engaged, and then there's the intentionally satisfying and intentionally unsatisfying sounds like a fully charged charger shot being nice and full sounding vs. splurting out some ink on a low tank being all choppy and depressing. you want to talk about game feel? splatoon is the game
 
Jul 5, 2018
298
I've played those 3 as well and I agree. Each of them feel fantastic and are great to play. One of the greatest examples for me personally is The Last of Us; even though it didn't really innovate any gameplay elements it just FELT so good playing it.
 

Aters

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
7,948
I get what you are saying. It's a joy to run around as Mario, not so much as Geralt.
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
The traversal mechans in Spider-Man are so sublime.. that alone has sent the game to the very top of my GOTY list. I don't see the "open world tropes" as a negative either, I like the structure and cadence of open world games like this. Spend some time advancing the story, then chill for a bit doing side tasks to build your power and mess around – rinse and repeat.

I do with that Spider-Man had more maneuverability on a smaller scale though. Sometimes I find it difficult to just jump up to a ledge at eye level, or finesse myself through areas while on foot or moving at a slower pace.

With God of War, I agree that the combat feels good, but it is a little bit loose in some areas. Combined with the lack of traversal freedom, that game hasn't stuck with me the way I thought it would.

Mario Odyssey was my GOTY last year and I love everything about playing it.
 

tiebreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,150
Well, Ni No Kuni II is the most recent one for me. It's just fun to run around in that game and the combat is smooth. Just wish they have gotten the balance right.
 
Aug 2, 2018
468
The traversal mechans in Spider-Man are so sublime.. that alone has sent the game to the very top of my GOTY list. I don't see the "open world tropes" as a negative either, I like the structure and cadence of open world games like this. Spend some time advancing the story, then chill for a bit doing side tasks to build your power and mess around – rinse and repeat.

THIS. Implementation is the most important factor. Collectibles for example in spider-man is used as a fantastic story-telling tool while also being a distraction. Heck, one of the collectibles even explain why he has so many backpacks. Not sure why people are criticizing their inclusion in the game.
 

KorrZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
797
Canada
Spider-Man absolutely nails game feel.

The entire open world in that game is repetitive and boring but you don't notice because the core game play moment to moment is so fluid and fun that you forget about the generic shit you're doing and just have fun swinging around or beating up bad guys.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,861
Agreed. Spider-Man is just fun and the controls are intuitive. GoW has such heft to it, sometimes I feel like I am swinging that axe around myself. It must be a hard thing to get just right when making a game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,092
Atlanta
spidey wasnt quite at that level for me, i cant overlook how bad the side content is. i really enjoyed the game overall tho. gow and mario odyssey on the other hand, absolutely loved both even with their flaws
 

TheExecutive

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
892
I hear ya. God of War was great and I actually don't have a lot to say bad about it unless I really not-pick. Spider-Man... I am about 33% done with everything so not too far but man if the traversal wasn't as good as it is I would not still be playing it. In fact I would have quit at about 20%. That states a LOT to me personally about the issues I have with games.

However, I keep finding new and great ways to get around and smoothly transition from building to building.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,179
It might be a "joy" to move around, but the actual content you're doing has to be fulfilling to make it an enjoyable game. Super Mario Odyssey is definitely lacking design wise. Still a good game overall maybe, but definitely not top tier. Seems ridiculous to overlook its many flaws because of a single thing that you like about it.
 

Tapeworm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
898
I feel this way about the Shadow of Mordor/War games. They just feel fun to play. Animation and second to second flow just feels great. Also Split / Second—always feeling like you could lose control at any time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,396
Melbourne, Australia
I've only played it for 2-3 hours so far, but haven't found it as immediately pick-up-and-play as something like Mario (or even God of War) in terms of the feel of it. Obviously this is a case of "git gud" but I haven't taken very naturally to certain parts of the combat or web-slinging (mainly just aiming for and slinging up to certain points to either perch or launch on the web-slinging side of things). I get the sense this will get better as I play the game, though.

The simply rhythm of swinging, releasing/jumping and then swinging again with the odd web-zip here and there is great (and the opening gave me chills when swinging through New York for the first time) the more technical side of things isn't coming as naturally is all.

Games feeling great to play absolutely goes a long way to my enjoyment for sure. One of the reasons I've stuck by Destiny 2 for so long in spite of its rough first 6-8 months+ is because I personally find the shooting feels incredible moment-to-moment, even in spite of the fact that it runs at 30fps (and lower, these days lol).

Another recent game that just feels incredible is Dead Cells. One of the best feeling 2D action games I've played.

It doesn't always get in the way but games that feel "clunky" to me, that I haven't been able to immediately get a good feel for, have definitely often resulted in me not being able to get into them. I'm going to be opening a can of worms here, but I personally don't enjoy the Soulsborne games, for instance, because they don't feel great to me, but this is a very subjective claim of mine and would be willing to admit is more objectively wrong. :P It also always kept me from enjoying Bethesda games like Morrowind and Oblivion (and yet I enjoyed Skyrim, which is clunky...but feels a bit better?)

Seems ridiculous to overlook its many flaws because of a single thing that you like about it.

I don't know why you have to call it ridiculous. Different people have different preferences. Come to games for different things. I think it's totally normal to find some games might feel so good to play you enjoy them in spite of various other problems with it. It doesn't absolve a game from criticism, it just means you really enjoy it in spite of its problems or what others might find has a lack of depth. I absolutely think there's something to be said for games where the simple act of playing them, even before being provided any major challenge or interesting design, is super enjoyable - this is something Nintendo excel at.
 

ULTROS!

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,474
I haven't played Spider-Man but I agree, I love GOW and Mario Odyssey. I don't notice their negatives.

Even with Dragon Quest XI, sure the music gets criticized a lot but the game is a joy to play and makes me overlook the negatives (like the music and the main character acting like a piece of log in important events).

For this gen, some of the games that gave me the amazing feel and make me overlook the negatives are God of War, Mario Odyssey, Dragon Quest XI, Dragon Quest Builders, NieR: Automata, and Final Fantasy XV. They all have that magical feeling that made me love video games.
 

nopattern

Member
Nov 25, 2017
987
I'm the opposite. Game Feel is so important, but it can't hold a game up in its entire for me. Game Feel is necessary for a great game but the design needs to be on point to capitalise on that game feel.

Mario Odyssey and Spiderman control really really well (notable exception is the forced motion controls of Odyssey) and feel great to play, but the content itself I find very lackluster. Moreso in Spidey than Odyssey but I have a lot of issues with both.

God of War I found had poor game feel personally. Kratos was a bit clunky, and the cutscene/fight near the start of the game was this awkward mess of stop and start mashing in the name of making it "cinematic" that I found myself immediately uninvested.
Its extremely difficult to relate to Odyssey's gameplay being described as lackluster. In comparison to the vast majority of stuff that gets released that absolutely boggles my mind.
 
Nov 8, 2017
173
I don't understand the praise for MGSV. Yes it's a good game, but every time I'm stuck by a small rock and couldn't get to a high ground I'm mad af.
And having to farm the resources and wait hours for development are disturbing design.
SC:Blacklist is superior in terms of this "game feel".
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,179
I've only played it for 2-3 hours so far, but haven't found it as immediately pick-up-and-play as something like Mario (or even God of War) in terms of the feel of it. Obviously this is a case of "git gud" but I haven't taken very naturally to certain parts of the combat or web-slinging (mainly just aiming for and slinging up to certain points to either perch or launch on the web-slinging side of things). I get the sense this will get better as I play the game, though.

The simply rhythm of swinging, releasing/jumping and then swinging again with the odd web-zip here and there is great (and the opening gave me chills when swinging through New York for the first time) the more technical side of things isn't coming as naturally is all.

Games feeling great to play absolutely goes a long way to my enjoyment for sure. One of the reasons I've stuck by Destiny 2 for so long in spite of its rough first 6-8 months+ is because I personally find the shooting feels incredible moment-to-moment, even in spite of the fact that it runs at 30fps (and lower, these days lol).

Another recent game that just feels incredible is Dead Cells. One of the best feeling 2D action games I've played.

It doesn't always get in the way but games that feel "clunky" to me, that I haven't been able to immediately get a good feel for, have definitely often resulted in me not being able to get into them. I'm going to be opening a can of worms here, but I personally don't enjoy the Soulsborne games, for instance, because they don't feel great to me, but this is a very subjective claim of mine and would be willing to admit is more objectively wrong. :P It also always kept me from enjoying Bethesda games like Morrowind and Oblivion (and yet I enjoyed Skyrim, which is clunky...but feels a bit better?)



I don't know why you have to call it ridiculous. Different people have different preferences. Come to games for different things. I think it's totally normal to find some games might feel so good to play you enjoy them in spite of various other problems with it. It doesn't absolve a game from criticism, it just means you really enjoy it in spite of its problems or what others might find has a lack of depth. I absolutely think there's something to be said for games where the simple act of playing them, even before being provided any major challenge or interesting design, is super enjoyable - this is something Nintendo excel at.

But is that alone enough to sustain a 20 hour-30 hour game? There has to be great design in other areas in order for a game to truly shine and set it apart from most "polished" games. Super Mario Odyssey goes for quantity over quality imo.(in a multitude of areas) I won't ignore its flaws just because it has something that it should have to begin with. It's a platformer, what would be the point if it didn't have great controls?
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,396
Melbourne, Australia
But is that alone enough to sustain a 20 hour-30 hour game? There has to be great design in other areas in order for a game to truly shine and set it apart from most "polished" games. Super Mario Odyssey goes for quantity over quality imo.(in a multitude of areas) I won't ignore its flaws just because it has something that it should have to begin.

I think it's going to be a matter of preference, but I suppose sometimes it's also case of if a game has enough to scrape by. I agree that Super Mario Odyssey goes for quantity over quality. There's certainly a lack of the sort of focused platforming seen in games like SMG1&2 and SM3DL/SM3DW (and I think I prefer those games due to that) but it still feels great to play moment-to-moment, has its moments, and offers a great sense of rewarding exploration. It didn't necessarily offer a whole lot of what I most enjoy in Mario games, but I still loved my 50+ hours with it and I think it's my favourite of the more open games in the series (SM64 offers some great platforming but always had too many goals that felt obtuse to me, and I dislike it even more for it today).
 

Ehoavash

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,238
Not sure I'd include god of war. Wasn't a fan of how slow kratos movement was.

But Spiderman, Mario, botw and MGSV has those tight control feels for me.


Btw the worst feeling in a game has to be Witcher 3
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,118
The counterpoint to this thread would be that surely if "feel" was the number one aspect then a lot more console games would prioritise 60fps.

For example The Witcher 3 certainly feels a lot better at 60fps on PC compared to 30 on console (though obviously framerate along can't fix everything about the controls, just responsiveness).
 

WaffleTaco

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,908
This is why BotW got like 10/10s tbh.


I do wonder if there is actually a 10/10 game that excels in gameplay and story.
 

THE GUY

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,223
Spider-Man would almost be perfect if they polished up some of the stuff. Right now, web slinging is amazing, but slower movement kind of sucks. If you're in front of something and want to immediately climb up to do a wall crawl or just do short jumps or something, it's really frustrating and reveals a lack of precision control. It's very noticeable when trying to stealth things, but you're forced to zip line etc. You can't just skip and hope between things because the movement really isn't made for it. The camera doesn't help either if you're crawling on the walls. Feels like Insomniac forgot about this and it's disappointing compared to how enjoyable swinging around is. If they can polish that up for the sequel as well as improve the combat and side content, it'll be a classic.

God of War is pretty sublime in game-play but there are a couple of things it needs. First, the chain thing where he kicks it down and follows rather than just kicking it down. Got annoying. Second, more big boss fights. Minor stuff really.

Ain't played Mario so can't comment.

However, it ain't all about feel to me. And that's not what helps me overlook the flaws. That's a big bonus, but you gotta deliver on the other important aspects. Spider-Man delivers on its main campaign but really fails with meaningful side content. (The main campaign also has room for improvement, but it's really good in general.) It's what stops me from calling it a great game. God of War delivers with its main campaign, but doesn't quite have enough big boss fights. I didn't really dig into its side content, but felt satisfied enough with the main narrative flow.

The feel is important, but if you fail in the aspects I think are more important, it detracts from my enjoyment. That's kind of why I dislike MGSV. It plays fantastically, but everything else about it just sucks, be it the story, the repetitive missions, and the general grind of it all. Real let down.
 

ThisIsMyDogKyle

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
I agree, I've found that other than good exploration game feel is the most important thing for me in game, it's the primary reason I consider Odyssey the best Mario game, it has maybe the best controls of any game I've ever played. Hollow Knight is another game that feels suuuper good to control once you get all the movement options.
 

Terror-Billy

Chicken Chaser
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,460
All I want from videogames is to have fun. I can overlook quite a number of flaws if the game is a fun romp. I'm never looking for A-class storytelling in games because I consider them to be C-tier movie stories at best. Funnily enough, the one game that I consider it has a great story/narrative is Undertale, which is nowhere near the budget and manpower of those AAA cinematic experiences.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
Game feel is important.

It is not enough to prop up a game on its own for me though. All that smooth control means nothing if the environment provides little enjoyable interaction or challenge.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
I feel this way about the Shadow of Mordor/War games. They just feel fun to play. Animation and second to second flow just feels great. Also Split / Second—always feeling like you could lose control at any time.
It's weird, but I felt that Shadow of War took a big step back in that respect. It feels like a lot of the weight behind the combat wasn't there. No sense of impact, your sword just goes through everything like butter. Teleporting around the map with Shadow Strike didn't feel nearly as cool (also wasn't as necessary with new traversal options). I remember enjoying Mordor feel a lot more.
 

Stoopkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,368
I couldn't agree more.

Spider-Man made me keep a smile on my face just from the web swinging.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
For a comparison within series, just compare Twilight princess to botw.

Botw has amazingly polished feel and movement.
Link in TP feel horrible to control. Stiff and clunky
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
Wow. I was going to quote how amazing From Software games feel. I think Souls and Bloodborne feel amazing to move around and fight.

Have you tried playing them on PC at 60 fps? Maybe that may change your mind.
I tried Demon's Souls and Bloodborne. I think I need to give the genre another shot because they're universally praised, but I felt like my characters slogged.
 

jondgc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,208
OP I completely agree. Sometimes there are factors you can't explain. The three games you've outlined are excellent examples.