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Oct 27, 2017
6,411
You really should ignore extreme negative opinions against Xenoblade 2.

Probably it will be the strong and valid opinion of someone who disliked the game for the sexist aspect but exaggerated in the analysis of the game in the others aspects or someone who started and stopped in the slow early part of the almost 200 Hours of gameplay.

You can't say the game is garbage, it isn't.

If your thinking in immersion, game hours/investment, story, experience, etc, you should go with Xenoblade 2.

It's one of the best games I ever playe and the DLC support is incredible

This is really rude to the people who generally dislike the game for having bad mechanics.

The sexualized anime stuff is at the bottom of my list in terms of problems with this game, and you dont even need to play 200 hours to realize the game has bad problems.

Negative opinions aren't wrong opinions and shouldnt he ignored solely because someone doesnt like it
 

GuitarGuruu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,497
I'm only about halfway through DQXI but I've beaten XB2 and at the point I'm at right now I'd say go with XB2. The story is much more interesting and engaging and personally I think it's a better cast of characters but that's up to personal opinion.
 

bottledfox

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,576
DQXI is a safer bet. It sticks to a formula that continues to work, after 30 years even. Xenoblade 2 is a lot more interesting for someone who wants something less tradional, more stuffed with mechanics to play with.
 

jorgejjvr

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
8,423
Lol at people saying xeno 2 is not good at all

Maybe it wasn't your cup of tea, but the game itself its freaking fastastic, must play for rpg fans, one of the best games last year
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
Only Estelle Bright could ever hope to be as glorious as Estelle Bright. :D
1452598658470.png
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
As a side, personal recommendation: All the people who wants a classic, charming JRPG experience with really good NCP dialogue and a really good cast of characters and story, skip DQ XI and go for the Trails in the Sky Trilogy.

I know that the games look old, I know that are only available on Steam (1 and 2 are on PSP though), but oh boy the writing in the games is good, the music is great and the combat system is really enterntaining.
 

Luis Pereira

Banned
Mar 26, 2018
87
This is really rude to the people who generally dislike the game for having bad mechanics.

The sexualized anime stuff is at the bottom of my list in terms of problems with this game, and you dont even need to play 200 hours to realize the game has bad problems.

Negative opinions aren't wrong opinions and shouldnt he ignored solely because someone doesnt like it

I'm really sorry, I wasn't trying to minimize the opinions of anyone. It's only that sometimes I see extreme opinions without any justification, just exaggerated hate against the game. I wasn't referring to people who disliked the game mechanics or people who really disliked the game character design because of its sexism.

It's only that I believe the critic against the anime harem style, semi-naked girls and big breasts is something very personal and related to taste, everyone can see that in a trailer and decide if it's something that they would enjoy or not.
 

jb1234

Very low key
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,232
As a side, personal recommendation: All the people who wants a classic, charming JRPG experience with really good NCP dialogue and a really good cast of characters and story, skip DQ XI and go for the Trails in the Sky Trilogy.

I know that the games look old, I know that are only available on Steam (1 and 2 are on PSP though), but oh boy the writing in the games is good, the music is great and the combat system is really enterntaining.

The character writing in those games has basically spoiled me. I played Xenoblade 2 shortly after The 3rd and boy, was that a rude awakening.
 

Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
Okay, what am I actually missing in DQ11? I've played about 5 hours worth of it and the battle system requires no real effort on your part, the worlds are small, and the story is in no way gripping. I'm a little dumbfounded by some of these comments because it's been a chore to play the game. Does it improve? There does actually seem to be any reason to play the game when you can leave so much of this on auto battle. There have been so many more RPGs this generation that have gripped me earlier. What am I missing?
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Funny how DQXI isn't considered too weeby for people, when you have bikini armor, bunny suits, and schoolgirl outfits all over the place.
I suspect it's that these sexualised aspects, however irritating, tend to be minor npcs, alternate costumes and sidequests in DQ, rather than the main design(s) for the lead character on the promo art and main cut scenes where the camera is always positioned to caress the female half the cast in XB2, in addition to all the optional blades, general sexualised tropes etc. One of them is easier to ignore (or begrudgingly tolerate) than the other when it's front-and-centre of the art direction, marketing, main characters and main story scenes for XB2.
 

Madouu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
107
If you want a relatively straightforward, cohesive and extremely well written game, I would always go with Dragon Quest. (I haven't played the last one yet though).

If you are more exploration oriented, and like sprawling, complex maps with some interesting lore behind them then Xenoblade 2 would be my recommendation.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
The character writing in those games has basically spoiled me. I played Xenoblade 2 shortly after The 3rd and boy, was that a rude awakening.
I played XC2 between SC and The Third and liked Xc2 a lot, but Xc2 is a more modern game with different priorities. But as a classic JRPG with more lineal areas and focused on small NPC stories, I think that Kiseki is efortlessly better than DQ XI.
 

Luis Pereira

Banned
Mar 26, 2018
87
In terms of story etc, there are problems with the tropey characters and their story arcs being mismatched with the designs throughout, it's not just initial impressions. The whole 'powering up equals wearing less clothes if you're female', and 'I now have self-determination! Choosing my own path means I'm going to be conveniently dressing like a space stripper, just like everyone else' happens several times, it's weaved throughout the arcs of several of the main cast.

I'd argue that you might as well ignore extreme positive opinions too, as anyone that spends 200 hours with it by definition has built up some serious resistance to that level of deeply ingrained shit. Whether someone can stomach it for dozens of hours is entirely based around how much of that stuff they can take in their JRPGs and still take the story seriously. Alternatively, we can take every criticism and endorsement as it comes. There's certainly games I've played for hundreds of hours that aren't for everyone too.

The fact that we argue about this so much on this forum, where people both praising and criticising XB2 mostly enjoy JRPGs, means that even some of us that have been playing them for 30 years don't have the exact same level of tolerance for the worst cliches of the genre today.
But the opinion of someone who really enjoyed the game and played 200 hours is more substantiated than the opinion of someone who just played for a few hours and stopped in the early game. I think the extreme positive opinion is fairer than the extreme negative because it's very improbable that the game is complete garbage.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
I've played 30 hours, and yeah the game improves. Not that much, mind you, but at least some of the story arcs are charming, and some of the party members are fun. For me the first 10 hours were incredible boring, but as I'm ending the first half, my opinion of the game has improved quite a lot. Even so, one of the worst JRPGs I've played recently.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
Funny how DQXI isn't considered too weeby for people, when you have bikini armor, bunny suits, and schoolgirl outfits all over the place.

I'm entirely certain that you're able to make the difference between Xenoblade 2 and Dragon Quest XI on that front and realize why the latter is a much better recommendation both in design and writing.

I don't even know why you're bringing up schoolgirl outfits...They're uniforms that are normal and are part of one arc of the game that justifies them.
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
Haven't played DQXI yet, so I can't make a comparison, but I will say that Xenoblade 2 was my 2nd favorite game of last year, just behind Breath of the Wild. It has loads of silly stuff, but when shit gets real the game is an outright powerful experience.
Not to mention one of the best OSTs ever composed.

 

Cronogear

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,985
Xenoblade 2 hits higher highs than DQXI imo, but there's some frustratingly bad design decisions in it too.

I would say pick DQXI if you want a traditional but very charming and well done turned based JRPG. Pick Xenoblade 2 of you want something a little more complex and unique in its mechanics, for better or worse.

I will also say this:

Xenoblade 2's music absolutely blows away DQXI's music. It's not even remotely close.
 

Elven_Star

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,970
I have finished Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Torna ~The Golden Country, and am playing through Dragon Quest XI.
None of them is to be missed, in my opinion. If you're an RPG fan, you'd want to play all three. If not, you gotta ask what your priorities are.
For a more action-oriented game with god-tier music and a more mature story (especially in Torna), XC2 and Torna.
For something more laid-back and charming, DQXI.
You need to play all three, eventually.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
But the opinion of someone who really enjoyed the game and played 200 hours is more substantiated than the opinion of someone who just played for a few hours and stopped in the early game. I think the extreme positive opinion is fairer than the extreme negative because it's very improbable that the game is complete garbage.
Normally I'd agree, but I think the game is so polarising that, if a few hours are all some players can stomach because of poorly explained mechanics or other aspects like the designs, cut scenes, character arcs etc, that's a valid enough opinion. Of course someone who plays for 200 hours is going to have a positive opinion almost by definition, that doesn't make it more valid than someone that bounces hard off of something and so, also by definition, is unlikely to finish a game that takes dozens of hours to play if they can't stand the characters and find the combat confusing.

I love Monster Hunter and have played it for hundreds of hours, but I'd never say that those bounce hard off of it, who play for a few hours because it looks cool but ultimately find it poorly explained both in combat and crafting, don't have a point.

Ultimately the whole cliched characterisation side of XB2 is something some players are going to have a very harsh immediate reaction to, a player that doesn't mind that stuff and that plays for hundreds of hours won't change that it's as much a barrier as the combat system is, and criticism of those aspects as such is perfectly good advice for some players who would prefer to avoid them wholesale.
 
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AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
People exaggerate about the music in DQXI. Yes it's a pity the idiot composer didn't implement orquestration but it's not "bad".

Having said that yes my vote is definitely on DQXI. Unless you can't stomach a more traditional JRPG this should be your pick. And it does away with most of if not all the annoying anime-ish bullshit Xenoblade 2 embraces.

I'm close to 60 hours into DQXI and it may be the best JRPG I've played in this decade.

What truly is an abomination is the OP managed to pit two games against each other and NOT make a poll.
 

Fireclad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
597
The Void
Xenoblade 2 is better in every regard


As someone with absolutely no prior exposure to X2... Gods, that was absolutely painful to watch. My face actually hurts from cringing that hard, that long. What the fuck is that nonsense?

Anyway, while I can't speak to the quality of X2, DQXI is spectacular and contains 150% less of whatever the fuck it is I just witnessed.
 

WestEgg

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,047
As someone with absolutely no prior exposure to X2... Gods, that was absolutely painful to watch. My face actually hurts from cringing that hard, that long. What the fuck is that nonsense?

Anyway, while I can't speak to the quality of X2, DQXI is spectacular and contains 150% less of whatever the fuck it is I just witnessed.
There's like 20 hours of cutscenes in Xenoblade 2, some like that one are very intentionally comedic and juvenile. It's also one of the few games to legit make me emotional enough to cry when it changes gears towards the dramatic.
 

Luis Pereira

Banned
Mar 26, 2018
87
Normally I'd agree, but I think the game is so polarising that, if a few hours are all some players can stomach because of poorly explained mechanics or other aspects etc, that's a valid enough opinion. Of course someone who plays for 200 hours is going to have a positive opinion almost by definition, that doesn't make it more valid than someone that bounces hard off of something and so, also by definition, is unlikely to finish a game that takes dozens of hours to play if they can't stand the characters and find the combat confusing.

love Monster Hunter and have played it for hundreds of hours, but I'd never say that those who find it utterly impenetrable/different/poorly explained both in combat and crafting (in some of the games more than others) don't have a point.

I think that one of the most charming characteristics of a JRPG is the work you need and can put to learn and improve your gameplay.

I don't think XC2 combat and crafting needed to be explained, I really enjoyed how I would improve and discover new ways to fight and use my blades. When you get the idea of the blade affinity chart tree, you immediately unlock the meaning of the battle system, why you auto attack and what you supposed to be doing.

And you can always improve and learn a new technique or way to be more effective. I really enjoyed this. I'm playing since last year, almost one year, and discovering new things or trying new ways to play.

I really think people who gave up in the first 30 hours should come back and give another try, because it will click and you will understand everything.

The storytelling is classic shonen anime style, so I really think it's related to taste if you like or not.
 

Iva Demilcol

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
Iwatodai Dorm
Normally I'd agree, but I think the game is so polarising that, if a few hours are all some players can stomach because of poorly explained mechanics or other aspects etc, that's a valid enough opinion. Of course someone who plays for 200 hours is going to have a positive opinion almost by definition, that doesn't make it more valid than someone that bounces hard off of something and so, also by definition, is unlikely to finish a game that takes dozens of hours to play if they can't stand the characters and find the combat confusing.

I love Monster Hunter and have played it for hundreds of hours, but I'd never say that those bounce hard off of it, who play for a few hours because it looks cool but ultimately find it poorly explained both in combat and crafting, don't have a point.

Ultimately the whole cliched characterisation side of XB2 is something some players are going to have a very harsh immediate reaction to, a player that doesn't mind that stuff and that plays for hundreds of hours won't change that it's as much a barrier as the combat system is, and criticism of them as such is perfectly good advice for some players.


I played the original Xenoblade Chronicles for more than 100 hours and ended up hating the game so much.

Is my opinion better than that of someone who beat the game in 50 hours and praises it in every single thread about JRPGs?
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I really think people who gave up in the first 30 hours should come back and give another try, because it will click and you will understand everything.

The storytelling is classic shonen anime style, so I really think it's related to taste if you like or not.
My point is that it doesn't take 30 hours to know if that's to your taste or not. Some people are going to give it a hard pass after three minutes of the cut scenes in this thread.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
Funny how DQXI isn't considered too weeby for people, when you have bikini armor, bunny suits, and schoolgirl outfits all over the place.
Compared to most JRPGs with an anime look from this gen yes, DQXI is most definitely the least "weeby" JRPG I've seen in recent memory.

I won't defend the bikini armor that a few NPCs wear (none of the party members do) which is just an homage to old class based armor from the NES DQs or the bunny suit which is dumb and while it can be categorized as sexualized it's definitely on the low spectrum.

But putting schoolgirl outfits without context when dissing DQXI is just being obtuse and obnoxious. I too rolled my eyes when I heard there was an all girls academy in the game but when I saw it and the students I was floored.

This is probably the least sexualized schoolgirl uniform I have seen in a decade in any JRPG with an anime look! Hell they all wear skirts that go below the knee, guys BELOW THE KNEE just how back in time you'd have to go for an anime about Highschool kids where the girls don't dress in mini skirts? Oh and get this: none use thigh high socks (and even if some did you couldn't tell since they use long skirts!) so there's no absolute territory bullshit going on.

And no; neither of the three female party members when wearing the school uniform from this academy hacen a sexualized look at all.
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,575
But the opinion of someone who really enjoyed the game and played 200 hours is more substantiated than the opinion of someone who just played for a few hours and stopped in the early game. I think the extreme positive opinion is fairer than the extreme negative because it's very improbable that the game is complete garbage.
Ah, good to know I'm allowed to say it's not a good game, since I put time into it. Awful characters, awful writing, dull, needlessly convoluted battle system with a shocking lack of depth, and a gacha system that had no business being in the game at all. I enjoy anime, and shonen occasionally, but Xenoblade 2 was just really poor shonen.

 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I played the original Xenoblade Chronicles for more than 100 hours and ended up hating the game so much.

Is my opinion better than that of someone who beat the game in 50 hours and praises it in every single thread about JRPGs?
No idea, like I said, one doesn't invalidate the other, although I have to say I don't think I could play something for that long if I hated it!

Did you enjoy it for the first few dozen hours and only then dislike it towards the end or something? I've certainly played JRPGs where the first act was compelling but by the end I thought it should have finished two dozen hours earlier.
 

Luis Pereira

Banned
Mar 26, 2018
87
My point is that it doesn't take 30 hours to know if that sto your taste or not.
The story starts in a completely different tone and pace than the latter's parts.

The development of the story is brutally well done and it grows in complexity and profundity until the climactic end. I never became so invested in any game story before.

And when you think it can't get any better, they drop Torna DLC and more 30 hours of better storytelling and mechanics.
 

Fireclad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
597
The Void
There's like 20 hours of cutscenes in Xenoblade 2, some like that one are very intentionally comedic and juvenile. It's also one of the few games to legit make me emotional enough to cry when it changes gears towards the dramatic.
The problem: None of that was funny.

Funny how DQXI isn't considered too weeby for people, when you have bikini armor, bunny suits, and schoolgirl outfits all over the place.
The weeby shit in XI sits kind of adjacent to the main narrative thrust of the game. A lot of the content is more or less weeby fanservice rather than something that's baked into the substratum of the entire experience. It's a cute window dressing that can be mostly ignored if you so desire and most of it is pretty tongue in cheek and self aware. At least that's been my experience in the 40ish hours I've plopped into it so far. There's a bevvy of costumes in the game, some are awesome looking, some make you look powerful, some are cute, some are hysterical (having your mage wear a garfield cat suit is just... jesus the cutscenes just about killed me with laughter), some are sexy. There's content in pretty equal measure across the board.

It's, man, it's like diet-weeb or weeb-optional.

What I've just seen of X2 is some next level shit. It's transcendent.
 

preta

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,491
Mm, I see. That bit about Rex being horrible is super-unfortunate; I love me some quality protagonists. Ah well, I'm glad the supporting cast is great!
Don't assume this is a universally held view. A lot of people, myself included, think Rex is a very well-done and charming protagonist. He's definitely of a rather common archetype, but the key point is that he's well-executed.
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
That scene is your regular anime cliché, nothing so terrible about it unless you never watched anime
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
That's good to read!
As you can see Xc2 is a really divisive game, go and play it, and then return here and tell us your opinion.

IMO most of the negative (and some of the positive) reactions to the game are your typicall internet hyperbole (like saying that DQ XI is the best JRPG in years, it's an opinion but it sounds like hyperbole to me), so don't pay attention to them.
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
  • It's terribly balanced. You either grind just for stats (which is not fun, it's much more fun to grind towards certain abilities), or you play easy and stomp everything. Assuming hard enemies from here on out
  • The games use of RNG is my controlled. Bosses will randomly one shot a character by attacking twice in a row etc. Instead of RNG forcing you to adapt, you just kinda laugh like okay I guess. Also 50% revive spells is a terrible concept, either make it low or high, pure luck is just that. It's not a high risk, high reward gamble, nor a consistent ability.
  • There's a lot of hidden mechanics which don't add anything to that game.Like bounded-comeback focused-speed. On top of that there is zero information in the game, you would literally have to record your own data via trial and error sampling to figure out what a boss is weak too. This is such a huge flaw, I can only imagine they use to sell strategy guides in japan.
  • On top of this the games combat is super simple. Pep powers really state what the combats about, long slogs.
Some bosses can be RNG bullshit in DQXI but only if you play with Super Strong Monsters Mode On. If you play normal that's not a factor at all unless I assume some optional post game super monsters get really tough.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Okay, what am I actually missing in DQ11? I've played about 5 hours worth of it and the battle system requires no real effort on your part, the worlds are small, and the story is in no way gripping. I'm a little dumbfounded by some of these comments because it's been a chore to play the game. Does it improve? There does actually seem to be any reason to play the game when you can leave so much of this on auto battle. There have been so many more RPGs this generation that have gripped me earlier. What am I missing?
Draconian mode strong enemies
 

Quinton

Specialist at TheGamer / Reviewer at RPG Site
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
17,284
Midgar, With Love
As you can see Xc2 is a really divisive game, go and play it, and then return here and tell us your opinion.

IMO most of the negative (and some of the positive) reactions to the game are your typicall internet hyperbole (like saying that DQ XI is the best JRPG in years, it's an opinion but it sounds like hyperbole to me), so don't pay attention to them.

I'm planning on running some LTTP threads for several games over the next few months. :D

Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, Super Mario Bros 3 (I'm serious), Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Octopath Traveler, and... well, if it's late enough to genuinely be late to the party, Dragon Quest XI. Haha.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,370
Barcelona
I'm planning on running some LTTP threads for several games over the next few months. :D

Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, Super Mario Bros 3 (I'm serious), Xenoblade Chronicles 2, Octopath Traveler, and... well, if it's late enough to genuinely be late to the party, Dragon Quest XI. Haha.
I've played all of these games, and think that all of them are great (BotW is my GOAT), so I'll see you there!
 

AztecComplex

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,371
That scene is your regular anime cliché, nothing so terrible about it unless you never watched anime
That doesn't make the scene any less terrible. DQXI has an anime look and it has none of that bullshit. And don't compare the jokey and only suggestive puff puff scenes where the screen goes black to THAT.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,304
I'd say they're roughly equal in their own ways. DQXI wins for being a very solid, traditional jrpg. The type they don't really make anymore. It's a very comforting and almost casual game in the best of ways. A simple but effective story and charming characters just round off a very neat package that I really can't say many bad things about except that the music is not great and some of the level-design errs on the simplistic side. A must-play and I'm pretty sure this'll end up game of the year for me.

Xenoblade 2 is much more complex and unique, but it does suffer from trying to do too many things and having less of a focus. But the granduer of the game is second only to Xenoblade X (which I would say is the better game too). The music's wonderful, I loved the battle-system (much more involved than DQXI's). It's a timesink of a game though and some hours feel entirely wasted like the useless mercenary system or the randomness of the Blades (they may have patched this, but I played it at launch). Overall a great game that has strengths very different to DQXI (exploration is way more interesting for example and I liked the dungeons a lot more than the simplistic designs of DQXI), but it does come with more caveats than DQXI. A diamond in the rough and Xenoblade games tend to be.