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Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
At least they're using Gunn's script, so while his directing won't be there, at least it will still be HIS trilogy and it'll end how he wanted it to end.
 

Extra Sauce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,947
Fuck Bob Iger the billionaire coward.

Edit: just looked it up his "net worth" is only listed at 100 million. It all makes sense now, can't risk losing his job and end up on the street.
 

Deleted member 16452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,276
Good, having to find a new director is no reason to abandon this.

I'm actually super interested in where this movie goes now.
 
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-JD-

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,496
Sounds like a soft-test to see how people would react to them hiring him on in a larger capacity, either as director or creative consultation.
 

Rydeen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,502
Seattle, WA.
I'm thinking the Marvel camp is just waiting for Alan Horn to retire, then they'll re-hire Gunn. It's just a war of attrition at this point if Horn is retiring by the end of the fiscal year.
 
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ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
The only person who says this is Gunn himself. Perlman and others have said that Nicole's script is still mostly what is in Guardians of the Galaxy 1. Gunn actively fought against Perlman getting any kind of story credit for the original movie, even though Nicole (not Gunn) is the reason Guardians of the Galaxy even got green-lit by Marvel in the first place.

That's non-sense. That's what she said:

Q. Aside from, as you mentioned, the tone and the comedy that James added, and a couple of new characters, is it safe to say that the core story is what you came up with?

Perlman: Yeah, the core story is definitely the same. All the major set pieces and how the team comes together and the relationships between the characters, these are all things that were very painstakingly worked out in advance by many, many, many versions until we found the right ones that worked the best. You know, there are dozens of Guardians of the Galaxy characters. So the five team members that are in the movie were the five that I liked the best. So it's nice to see they're in the film.

Source: https://www.scriptmag.com/features/interviews-features/nicole-perlman-guardians-of-the-galaxy

Claiming that the major set pieces and core story are the same, when these characters are based of another medium and other screenwriters have done the same without getting the kind of name recognition that Perlman has is bs. Yes, she did a great job with Vol. 1, got credited and Gunn elevated the material. The songs, the weird humor, the heart? It's reportedly from Gunn, same for the eye for visuals, that got amped tenfold with Vol. 2.

I give credit to Perlman, Yost, Kyle and Pearson for Vol. 1 and Ragnarok, but those are Gunn's and Waititi's babies, and it shows.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
That's non-sense. That's what she said:



Source: https://www.scriptmag.com/features/interviews-features/nicole-perlman-guardians-of-the-galaxy

Claiming that the major set pieces and core story are the same, when these characters are based of another medium and other screenwriters have done the same without getting the kind of name recognition that Perlman has is bs. Yes, she did a great job with Vol. 1, got credited and Gunn elevated the material. The songs, the weird humor, the heart? It's reportedly from Gunn, same for the eye for visuals, that got amped tenfold with Vol. 2.

I give credit to Perlman, Yost, Kyle and Pearson for Vol. 1 and Ragnarok, but those are Gunn's and Waititi's babies, and it shows.
Nothing you said here really pushes me away from my stance that Nicole was a bigger influence on GOTG1 than Gunn
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Nothing you said here really pushes me away from my stance that Nicole was a bigger influence on GOTG1 than Gunn

She was not. That's like saying that Yost and Kyle are a bigger influence on Thor: Ragnarok than Taika, when both have written the "major story points and set pieces" of both Thor: Ragnarok and Thor: The Dark World, hence, non-sense. Without Gunn's reworking of the script, Vol. 1 could be yet another The Dark World, just like Ragnarok could be yet another The Dark World without Taika.

What's more:

Marvel's latest film, Guardians of the Galaxy, has been a runaway hit, earning more than $90 million in its opening weekend. Critics are also enamored, lauding the movie for its quirky humor, which subverts the genre's usual self-seriousness, and its taut and clever script, which was co-written by Nicole Perlman and director James Gunn.

As several outlets have pointed out, though, "co-written" is perhaps not the most accurate term for how Perlman and Gunn divided their duties. Perlman—the first female writer credited on a Marvel film—spent more than two years combing through the obscure Guardians comics and drafting the film's initial story. Gunn, known for helming offbeat hits like Super and Slither, then did an expansive rewrite, which he claims gave the film its irreverent sensibility and major character arcs. This co-writing-without-collaboration isn't a novel situation in Hollywood, but Perlman and Gunn have given differing descriptions of their contributions to the final script.

Is there beef between the two? Should there be? Even if their rapport is hunky-dory, it's in question whether Perlman's work was pushed to the background so Gunn could better assume the title of "writer-director." This is a familiar conversation—it was just last year when John Ridley and Steve McQueen fought over the writing credit for 12 Years a Slave—but the Guardians controversy has an added layer: the question of whether gender played a role in designating, and publicizing, authorship credit.

Much of that controversy started with the recent BuzzFeed profile of Perlman, which offers an insightful look at how the writer snagged the Guardians gig and produced the first script treatment. The short version of that story: In 2009, Perlman joined the Marvel Writing Program, an incubator of sorts where writers are brought in to help develop Marvel properties into potential film franchises. From around half a dozen of Marvel's lesser properties, Perlman chose Guardians of the Galaxy, and spent the next two years devouring its back catalog and reinterpreting the characters for the big screen. She was "given an enormous amount of creative freedom" by Marvel, who essentially told her to "come up with a good story."

That's where things get a bit murky. According to the BuzzFeed piece, Perlman's script did have a good story—good enough for Marvel to green-light its production—but that story doesn't seem to be the one that ended up on screen. Gunn's rewrite changed the major villain of the film, added several crucial secondary characters, and reshaped the dialogue to fit his comedic vision. Perlman hasn't disputed those changes; in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter she noted that Gunn "definitely bumped the humor up and added some characters and deepened the scenes." Her phrasing, though, implies that Gunn was merely honing her template, and that the central story and characters were entirely her creation.

Gunn has pointedly contested that premise. In the BuzzFeed profile, he acknowledges that "the original concept" was in Perlman's treatment, but states that "the story and the characters—those were pretty much re-created by me." In a roundtable interview transcribed by FilmDivider, he went even further, maintaining that "in Nicole's script everything is pretty different … the story is different, there's no Walkman, the character arcs are different, it's not about the same stuff. But that's how the WGA works. They like first writers an awful lot."

Gunn isn't wrong—WGA rules are notoriously complex, and do, with good reason, protect first writers—but his impolitic putdowns of Perlman's script aren't too endearing. Still, I'm not convinced that there's more at issue here than a known jerkcontinuing to be a jerk. Perlman's work was primarily concept development and character selection. It seems safe to say that the film's dialogue—specifically, the repartee and raunchy humor that audiences have been responding to—are Gunn's additions, as they are fairly of a piece with his former work. That's still conjecture, of course, but it's also corroborated by Perlman, who has conceded that she is "not primarily a comedy writer, but it needed to be a comedic project. Like, this is a project that has always been irreverent. It's always been tongue-in-cheek." The rewrite of a writer-director was always expected. In this case, that writer-director happened to be one with a cohesive and crackling vision but a big and offensive mouth.

That's a separate problem. As Sady Doyle tweeted, there's definitely some have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too cognitive dissonance occurring when Guardians is billed as the first Marvel movie written by a woman and the director is "constantly, publicly thrashing her script." But Gunn, by all accounts, did write the majority of Guardians as it's seen on screen, and Perlman, for her part, hasn't suffered from a dearth of publicity. That's as it should be—her work was fundamental to the film's creation. A cynic could say that Marvel has trumped up her role to bask in PR praise, but I prefer the optimistic take: that Perlman's credit, though marred by Gunn's petulance, is a rare and deserved triumph that indicates slow headway in a male-dominated industry.

Source: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...er_nicole_perlman_vs_director_james_gunn.html
 
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Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
She was not. That's like saying that Yost and Kyle are a bigger influence on Thor: Ragnarok than Taika, when both have written the "major story points and set pieces" of both Thor: Ragnarok and Thor: The Dark World, hence, non-sense. Without Gunn's reworking of the script, Vol. 1 could be yet another The Dark World, just like Ragnarok could be yet another The Dark World without Taika.

What's more:



Source: http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat...er_nicole_perlman_vs_director_james_gunn.html
That Walkman was so much more important than the core of the story
 

doinkies

Member
Jun 20, 2018
160
Why? Some folks need to die in the next Avengers. Why not the GotG? The series is in total disarray. Let's start fresh.

Because GoTG is a top franchise for MS, people still love the characters and fans will be even more pissed off if they killed all of them and rebooted, especially general audience members with no idea about this dumbass "scandal".

Gunn had hinted at the GoTG becoming a rotational group after 3, and they're apparently using his script no matter what, so they can have some members leave then and not nuke the whole group in A4 in some scene that'll make no sense because it was obviously changed up after the fact.
 
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ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
That Walkman was so much more important than the core of the story
Nice argument. It's true though, the walkman - and the songs - are at the very heart of the story. It's well reported how Gunn wrote himself into Rocket and how the theme of redemption is something that he brought up.

Perlman's screenplay and work is definitely important, just like Kyle/Yost screenplays for both The Dark World and Ragnarok are. The thing is, Perlman wrote the first version of the screenplay knowing that an writer-director would come aboard to develop the project and make it his own. That's what Gunn did, just like Waititi did for Ragnarok, or Jenkins did with Heinberg's screenplay for Wonder Woman, for that matter.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,441
Greater Vancouver
Any director taking this job is going to do so feeling like such a rebound. And not a rebound off a relationship that was fairly short, but like... you were about to get married, they radically changed your life for the better, best sex you've ever had.
 

Falchion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,086
Boise
They should absolutely use the script and they should absolutely hire him back but only one of these things will happen.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Just scrap Guardians 3, make the next movie a Guardians/Thor crossover named Asgardians of the Galaxy directed by Waititi
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,632
Some new GOTG 3 info from James Gunn's brother:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/co...cle_523cea85-c4a8-5599-af6d-4d60a41ca4d2.html



It's good news for the film that Disney still wants to make it. I wonder if this means we see a scenario where James Gunn serves as a behind the scenes director or consultant for the film.

It's possible if they use his script. They would have to give him credit fpr it, so it would be an easy way to have him act as a consultant behind the scenes without us ever knowing it.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,821
I'd feel kind of dirty to watching it.

Kind of like when watching the NFL Right now.

You know someone is getting screwed. :/

That's literally all of hollywood.

Just scrap Guardians 3, make the next movie a Guardians/Thor crossover named Asgardians of the Galaxy directed by Waititi

asgardians-of-the-galaxy-header-2-1.jpg


There's something to that idea, especially now that we have a MCU Valkyrie that ldoesn't look like a Red Sonia reject.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
It isn't basically the same thing. Name the writers of the last five MCU movies. Think of the last interviews you've watched with them.

There are expectations on directors way beyond writers in interacting with the media. And interacting with the media is an opportunity to bring attention to controversy.

Him as a writer gives Disney and Marvel Studios the opportunity to gauge the potential for drama. And it opens the door for their next move with Gunn.

They didn't fire him arbitrarily. They have obligations to their shareholders, decisions are made based on avoiding risk. This move would give them enough information about his future with the MCU to make the next move.

Underrated post. Here's hoping that Feige is able to make these old farts come to their senses.

tumblr_nbnt1jSMfO1tjbbjao1_500.gif


tumblr_inline_o7crfqZyFx1s8tjws_500.gif



asgardians-of-the-galaxy-header-2-1.jpg


There's something to that idea, especially now that we have a MCU Valkyrie that ldoesn't look like a Red Sonia reject.

With all due respect, but fuck Asgardians of the Galaxy. Bring me a female team lead by Valkyrie, Infinity Watch or something. Introduce Angela already. But Gunn deserves to finish his trilogy. Asgardians of the Galaxy is such a dumb direction for something that clearly is better suited for Taika's sequel.
 
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The Hobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,058
If he's not fit to be the director, then he's obviously not fit to be the writer, so Disney better drop that script.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Exactly there's nothing left other than to launch a wider Cosmic MCU line.

Asgardians of the Galaxy would do that .. and give us Rocket and Thor.
And by the time this movie would even start filming, Disney will have absorbed the Fox rights which means the MCU can really go all out with Cosmic Marvel stuff, including Annihilation.
 

Caz

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,055
Canada
Get Raimi. Dude would make it so good.
I doubt Raimi would be willing to jump back in considering his experience with Spider-Man 3 and the compromises he had to make courtesy of studio interfering with his vision of the film versus them wanting Venom to be the heavy.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,630
Exactly there's nothing left other than to launch a wider Cosmic MCU line.

Asgardians of the Galaxy would do that .. and give us Rocket and Thor.
Even Quill's mother's mixtapes are done with.

Still if Gunn felt the need to write another script I'm assuming it's great and I definitely wouldn't want to lose it.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Even Quill's mother's mixtapes are done with.

Still if Gunn felt the need to write another script I'm assuming it's great and I definitely wouldn't want to lose it.
Quill's mixtapes are done and he's even interacting with Earthlings again. His story is about as done as you can get.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
People saying that the Guardians story is done because Quill's mother mixtapes are done and that he is back to interacting with Earthlings makes me think that what Gunn has actually envisioned for these characters completely flew over their heads.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
People saying that the Guardians story is done because Quill's mother mixtapes are done and that he is back to interacting with Earthlings makes me think that what Gunn has actually envisioned for these characters completely flew over their heads.
Or Gunn isn't exactly that genius and was just going to use GOTG3 to set the stage for some post Avengers 4 cosmic Marvel stuff
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
Or Gunn isn't exactly that genius and was just going to use GOTG3 to set the stage for some post Avengers 4 cosmic Marvel stuff
Said the dude that clearly hasn't a clear grasp on what their story is about. It's not about Quill reconnecting with Earthlings or it ended because Quill's mother mixtapes ended. It's about a dysfunctional family maturing in an universe where they should have probably have become villains, but ended up as a family of scoundrels turned heroes. Gunn has clearly a plan, and I hope he is able to direct the Guardians one last time.
 

Sephzilla

Herald of Stoptimus Crime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,493
Said the dude that clearly hasn't a clear grasp on what their story is about. It's not about Quill reconnecting with Earthlings or it ended because Quill's mother mixtapes ended. It's about a dysfunctional family maturing in an universe where they should have probably have become villains, but ended up as a family of scoundrels turned heroes. Gunn has clearly a plan, and I hope he is able to direct the Guardians one last time.
If you've payed attention to what myself, excelsior, and drewton have said in this thread you'd probably know what we've covered all of that stuff too. Most of the character's arcs are completed (or mostly forgotten about - see Drax) and Guardians 2 was all about them truly uniting as a family.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
That Walkman was so much more important than the core of the story
You're trying to be snide but if you remove the Walkman, and everything that implies in Guardians 1, you have a widely different movie with a widely different tone. There are SO many moments in that film that are made because of the soundtrack.

The Walkman is essential to both movies.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,284
Providence, RI
Why? Some folks need to die in the next Avengers. Why not the GotG?

Two things.

First: Someone will almost certainly die in the next Avengers. It will likely be Steve or Tony (if not both). There doesn't need to be a large death count other than that.

Second: They already filmed Avengers 4. Doing reshoots to kill off the Guardians of the Galaxy is legitimately crazy and would be a disaster from a story and filming point of view.