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Eurogamer: Games really need to fall out of love with Lovecraft
- Thread starter Lord Arcadio
- Start date
I would also raise that the focus on Lovecraft himself on the creation of Lovecraftian horror ignores his editor August Derleth's contributions to the mythos and his politics were rather progressive for the time. So even the idea that Lovecraft was essential in creating cosmic horror was inaccurate for the time
I read medium article earlier this year on the same topic. I think it was called "Reading H.P. Lovecraft in 2018". I knew he was a giant piece of shit before, but now I'm afraid I can't even appreciate his writing.
some of these games take the time to criticize lovecraft, while taking inspiration
for example, while lovecraft is clearly extremely classist and elitist, and it shows in his work, but in bloodborne this is turned on its head by having the people who seek contact with Great Ones and dabbling in things that should remain unknown be academics and aristocrats. it's a clear response to lovecraft saying that most of the time, problems are caused by the self-styled cultured and civilized with whom lovecraft identified himself, rather than by the unwashed masses
for example, while lovecraft is clearly extremely classist and elitist, and it shows in his work, but in bloodborne this is turned on its head by having the people who seek contact with Great Ones and dabbling in things that should remain unknown be academics and aristocrats. it's a clear response to lovecraft saying that most of the time, problems are caused by the self-styled cultured and civilized with whom lovecraft identified himself, rather than by the unwashed masses
The author fails to cite any examples of Lovecraft's backwards attitudes depicted in any videogames that are inspired by Lovecraft's work. Surely this is one of the few decent examples of creators adapting these kinds of works? This is a bizarre article. Making Lovecraft inspired works a target of ire, as compared to any number of other social issues in which videogames are often extremely regressive (violence and militarism generally), seems like an odd choice.
Lovecraft was progressive-ish in his views on women and was convinced that the evil brown people were to blame for sexism:
He was also a fan of some contemporary feminist works like The Yellow Wallpaper.
He doesn't have many female characters (though when they do appear they're pretty naturally depicted), which is where people draw the "misogynist" part from. Take from that what you will.
As for the issue of Lovecraft's art being influenced by his hate for "black people", that's an incredibly reductive view of his work and its roots.
For example, people tend to flock at his "Facts about the late Arthur Jermyn" novella as the go-to example about how is racism bled in his work (and mind you, there's plenty of racist things in Lovecraft's work). A man travels to Congo, finds humanoid monkeys, consorts with them and corrupts his family line with that? It writes itself, doesn't it?
However, the racism is absolutely ancillary to Lovecraft's main "inspiration" - both of his parents died in a mental institution, and he spent his life obsessed by the idea that madness could be transmitted by blood. That he looks at that kind of setting to embody his idea of unsual and depraved is certainly bigoted and hateful, but it's not the central theme of the novella.
And it's undeniable that Lovecraft's "hate" for what is different was something he lived in a conflicted way. He wrote letters that would make the alt right blush about the corruption of the USA caused by immigrants, and then he married a Jewish woman whom he loved so much that he secretly refused to sign the divorce papers until his death. All the fear and disgust is also permeated with fascination and seduction, which is why to this day I keep thinking that Lovecraft was a white man brought up by two parents with extreme mental issues that tried to make his way and elevate himself in a society that was entirely about class and breed while also being absolutely fascinated by the external world and the differences he felt he needed to hate and reject.
For example, people tend to flock at his "Facts about the late Arthur Jermyn" novella as the go-to example about how is racism bled in his work (and mind you, there's plenty of racist things in Lovecraft's work). A man travels to Congo, finds humanoid monkeys, consorts with them and corrupts his family line with that? It writes itself, doesn't it?
However, the racism is absolutely ancillary to Lovecraft's main "inspiration" - both of his parents died in a mental institution, and he spent his life obsessed by the idea that madness could be transmitted by blood. That he looks at that kind of setting to embody his idea of unsual and depraved is certainly bigoted and hateful, but it's not the central theme of the novella.
And it's undeniable that Lovecraft's "hate" for what is different was something he lived in a conflicted way. He wrote letters that would make the alt right blush about the corruption of the USA caused by immigrants, and then he married a Jewish woman whom he loved so much that he secretly refused to sign the divorce papers until his death. All the fear and disgust is also permeated with fascination and seduction, which is why to this day I keep thinking that Lovecraft was a white man brought up by two parents with extreme mental issues that tried to make his way and elevate himself in a society that was entirely about class and breed while also being absolutely fascinated by the external world and the differences he felt he needed to hate and reject.
I don't think anyone really speaks his name in a positive light. He was just the first one who introduced a particular blend of horror.
Stephen King took a lot of inspiration from Lovecraft. You've probably watched a lot of entertainment that took inspiration from him without even knowing it.
Literature in general is just recycling what you've read into new artistic works. You're bound to see Lovecraft DNA in works of horror, just as parts of the Bible come up in popular entertainment like Harry Potter and Superman.
Nah I like my cosmic horror themed/inspired games and movies/TV shows. I'll decide if I'm ok with watching/playing it or not thank you very much.
I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion, but yeah Lovecraft had some problematic views, to say the least.
Plus the name of his cat, and that horror story about the dude who goes insane when he realises his ancestor is some monkey creature, which to me felt rather thinly veiled, if at all.
i still haven't played a truly great cosmic horror game. Bloodborne is closest, games need to fall into cosmic horror in my opinion :D
The genre and style can be more than Lovecraft.
The genre and style can be more than Lovecraft.
Mostly indie stuffs. Upcoming big game that features these elements include Death Stranding. Fairly niche theme.
Which is funny because it's what most people do when they say "I Love Lovecraft" post-2015.
Not that I'm aware of.
I may be missing some fact about his personal life, if that's what you are referring to, but he wrote pretty extensively against racism and discrimination in his private mail with other authors.
On topic, it's worth stressing that Lovecraft aside for being almost comically racist even for his time was also an all-around complete nutjob. Then again the man grew up with a widow mother telling him he was too ugly to show himself in public. Hard to grow up a mentally healthy and well balanced individual.
There's a story where where Holmes deduces that a man must be an intellectual simply from his hat, because a man with such a big hat must have a big head and ergo must be super smart.
I don't recall any blatant racism in Holmes stories (though I'm sure it's there), but you can probably guess his views from that.
There's people in this very thread doing just that.
And this is what sucks so bad about it. How willing the world is to ignore his racism and just move on like it was nothing. His work should have been rejected long before it became inspiration. We still have people in this thread in 2018 defending and trying to normalize this guys views. It's truly sickening
ehh like 99% of Lovercraft's influence on gaming nowadays is about the fear of the unknown, cosmic horror, and fishermen towns on the coast. No reason to move away from that especially when games influenced by those aspects are mostly fantastic. I'm glad we have Bloodborne, Soma, Amnesia, and heck even Far Harbor from Fallout 4 was awesome. If these are the aspects games are pulling from while mostly introducing their own ideas then I don't see anything wrong with that.
I'm open for any arguments about why Bloodborne's cosmic horror / beasts have racist aspects to them, but I doubt any such argument exists.
I'm open for any arguments about why Bloodborne's cosmic horror / beasts have racist aspects to them, but I doubt any such argument exists.
As for the question whether Lovecraft was racist relative to the society he lived in, you need to consider this:
Lovecraft was a man of middling upbringing, plagued by the tragedy of having two mentally ill parents (something that, at the time, was considered possibly hereditary) who was trying to make his way in an environment (that of authors and writers) which at the time valued breed and family names as paramounts. It was entirely about "purity", for him, and he felt like he wasn't pure enough for that society. Many of his novellas encapsulate those influences - decadent nobles who compromised their bloodlines, hereditary madness and deformity, purity. This feeds into his racism because he's constantly performing a perverted (and archaic) form of "virtue signaling" by celebrating his race and more importantly, his heritage - or rather, what he wants to prove he belongs to.
And while his views and words are definitely vile and hateful, you could argue that the fact that so much of his work is devoted to the unknown, the ancestral and the uncomprensible implies that he was living his hate as a conflict, rather than a certainity. And maybe that was why he was so loud about it. In all his stories, humans are fascinated and seduced by what is described as horrible and disgusting. There's a strong conflict between being the respectable men and women his characters strive to be, and simply accepting the seduction of the entities that becon from beyond. You can feel the conflict emerging from every page, and it's actually the strongest element of his stories. His characters rarely reject the cosmic horror and return to their life thinking "well, that was horrible but I'm past that". They're inevitably changed, corrupted, seduced. I always felt that told us something about Lovecraft's psychology, and his self loathing.
Lovecraft was a man of middling upbringing, plagued by the tragedy of having two mentally ill parents (something that, at the time, was considered possibly hereditary) who was trying to make his way in an environment (that of authors and writers) which at the time valued breed and family names as paramounts. It was entirely about "purity", for him, and he felt like he wasn't pure enough for that society. Many of his novellas encapsulate those influences - decadent nobles who compromised their bloodlines, hereditary madness and deformity, purity. This feeds into his racism because he's constantly performing a perverted (and archaic) form of "virtue signaling" by celebrating his race and more importantly, his heritage - or rather, what he wants to prove he belongs to.
And while his views and words are definitely vile and hateful, you could argue that the fact that so much of his work is devoted to the unknown, the ancestral and the uncomprensible implies that he was living his hate as a conflict, rather than a certainity. And maybe that was why he was so loud about it. In all his stories, humans are fascinated and seduced by what is described as horrible and disgusting. There's a strong conflict between being the respectable men and women his characters strive to be, and simply accepting the seduction of the entities that becon from beyond. You can feel the conflict emerging from every page, and it's actually the strongest element of his stories. His characters rarely reject the cosmic horror and return to their life thinking "well, that was horrible but I'm past that". They're inevitably changed, corrupted, seduced. I always felt that told us something about Lovecraft's psychology, and his self loathing.
Maybe we've read different threads but like 90 percent of the comments are either,"He's a racist? That's terrible?" or "Of course he's a racist. It's well known".
Yeah they really have become click baity these last few years. Some of the best games this generation not getting the best reviews, lots of weird articles like this. Digital Foundry is about the only thing I like from them lately.
You can be influenced by and invoke the lore and atmosphere of Lovecraft without aping any of his racist narrative. His stories may have been racist or problematic, but cosmic horror isn't inherently so.
I do appreciate that EG is using the term "separate the art from the artist" correctly though. Recently it's been misused a lot to argue the ethics of consuming art created by a racist or otherwise problematic artist. But the phrase has nothing at all to do with consumerism. When you know about an artist's terrible views and still buy his work anyway, you're not "separating the art from the artist." That's not what that means.
I do appreciate that EG is using the term "separate the art from the artist" correctly though. Recently it's been misused a lot to argue the ethics of consuming art created by a racist or otherwise problematic artist. But the phrase has nothing at all to do with consumerism. When you know about an artist's terrible views and still buy his work anyway, you're not "separating the art from the artist." That's not what that means.
that's like saying people should stop enjoying Disney films because he was a misogynist, and he was
There were several authors who helped create the ideas end themes in cosmic style horror. Clark Ashton Smith was another.
I was not expecting the article to be about his racism. Lovecraft was indeed a racist, and outside of his great artisitic talent, was clearly just a sad, boring, unremarkable man.
Some lovecraftian fiction works play with that, like Lovecraft Country (with African Americans protagonists) and Alan Moore's Providence (with a Gay Jew protagonist).
Regarding games, I just find the themes overused.
Some lovecraftian fiction works play with that, like Lovecraft Country (with African Americans protagonists) and Alan Moore's Providence (with a Gay Jew protagonist).
Regarding games, I just find the themes overused.
You can't "normalize" Lovecraft. The man is entirely about insanity. And he was racist - there's no two ways about it. In fact, he probably was less racist than he wanted to be. He was conflicted about his own feelings, and whether by societal imposition or personal inclination, he probably felt he was too progressive for his own good.
The point is that he gets singled out for his racism frequently and if we decide he should be expunged because of it, we may as well start from scratch and disown a lot more than just Lovecraft. We can have a discussion about it, and it's also something I feel is fundamentally going to happen as we allow modern authors to produce new and more progressive work. We'll move past Lovecraft like we moved past authors across history, and if we keep something of his influences, we'll do so reading it under the values of our society and not his.
I in particular feel that Lovecraft's body of work (and his personal life) express a very conflicted stance on those issue, and I feel he was so loud and explicit about those themes because he was "virtue signaling" to a racist, white suprematist society he desperately longed to fit in. How harshly you want to condemn him for it is up to you.
Here's an article with substance about the complex Lovecraft issue
https://forbiddenfutures.net/lovecraft-means-never-having-to-say-youre-sorry.html
https://forbiddenfutures.net/lovecraft-means-never-having-to-say-youre-sorry.html
Just two posts above you we have a guy defending and normalizing his views, painting him as some sort of victim or deserving of sympathy.
People simply using the term "lovcraftian" is praise of the man.
This is a good post.
This era we live in is kind of crazy. People want to control what we should think about this and that, critical thinking isn't a thing anymore. Never ever read Lovecraft's stories, but I'm familiar with them and I've played a few games based on /influenced by its universe like Bloodborne or Eternal Darkness. I get the writer who influenced these stories was fucking moron back in his day, like many others who were a product of their time. Tolkien of LotR fame was also said to be a racist, Walt Disney too.
But guess what, they're not alive anymore, times have changed and you can extract whatever you want from their legacy, even how racist they were and how much better we have it now.
It's not a matter of 'ban this thing forever, it was produced by a racist in the 20th century and that's not cool', we can read and see that by ourselves.
That's exactly what you just tried to do in your last post and it's what you are doing in this post. It's disgusting. You should be ashamed
If anything, games should respect more Lovecraft. I'm tired of reading things like 'x game is lovecraftian' meaning just 'monsters with tentacles' or 'scary game in the 20s' or 'dark game with weird aliens', or even worse, have gratuitous mentions to Elder Gods or shit like that. It's all very shallow. Slapping something Lovecraftinan to your game has to be like slapping rpg elements, it seems super common and usually it isn't very well done.
About Lovecraft himself, saying he as racist seems a shallow reading of his stories. He was racist, but more than anything, he was classist. You can notice how he disliked the 'poor, ignorant masses', the proletariat, the backwards country people (and yes, that included white American men), the poor and dirty immigrants (even the ones that were whiteish), etc. That's a much more recurring theme than his racism.
He also disliked what I guess he considered the 'modern society', and thought of himself he had born in the wrong age, he wished he had born in the time of his grandfathers and parents which I would say he idealized, thinking they were more civil, more educated, the towns had less people, there was less industry, etc. His friends called him 'grandpa' as nickname because of that. In other words, he was a pretty freaking weird dude.
About Lovecraft himself, saying he as racist seems a shallow reading of his stories. He was racist, but more than anything, he was classist. You can notice how he disliked the 'poor, ignorant masses', the proletariat, the backwards country people (and yes, that included white American men), the poor and dirty immigrants (even the ones that were whiteish), etc. That's a much more recurring theme than his racism.
He also disliked what I guess he considered the 'modern society', and thought of himself he had born in the wrong age, he wished he had born in the time of his grandfathers and parents which I would say he idealized, thinking they were more civil, more educated, the towns had less people, there was less industry, etc. His friends called him 'grandpa' as nickname because of that. In other words, he was a pretty freaking weird dude.
So, the thesis here is that we should ditch the monsters of our nightmares because those nightmares were shared and articulated by a racist.
I guess we can ditch our national parks system, too since it was conceived by Theodore Roosevelt, a racist and eugenicist.
Let's toss out individual liberty and republicanism, conceived in the American context by slave-owners. How about abortion rights, as Planned Parenthood was founded by a eugenicist who hoped to reduce the black population?
I guess we can ditch our national parks system, too since it was conceived by Theodore Roosevelt, a racist and eugenicist.
Let's toss out individual liberty and republicanism, conceived in the American context by slave-owners. How about abortion rights, as Planned Parenthood was founded by a eugenicist who hoped to reduce the black population?
As the article alludes, Lovecraft's sheltered, bigoted perspective is clearly at the root of the themes of his work. He was a paranoid, cynical person, and had a deep mistrust of anything outside his bubble. At the same time though, the themes of anxiety and distrust can resonate with marginalised groups as well. The use of the supernatural adds a curtain between Lovecraft and his audience, which can easily make the iffy metaphors and parables fade away, opening them up for interpretation.
Doesn't really matter either way, as most video games that dip their toe in the Lovecraft pool, do it in a pretty superficial way anyway. They like big, larger than life monsters that don't have to be explained, and especially the aesthetic. The latter ironically enough feels a little antithetical to what Lovecraft tried to evoke. He was a big fan of creating allegedly incomprehensible creatures and concepts. This works well in media like books, where you can afford to go in as much or as little detail you want. Video games however have an explicit visual layer that they are expected to use. Usually the indescribable immediately becomes easily describable once you ask an artist to make a 3D model of it. It's a downside of visual media, but I guess I'm not going to feel too bad that a vision of some bigoted asshole got appropriated and compromised.
I'd say continue to use it, and transform it beyond its origins.
Doesn't really matter either way, as most video games that dip their toe in the Lovecraft pool, do it in a pretty superficial way anyway. They like big, larger than life monsters that don't have to be explained, and especially the aesthetic. The latter ironically enough feels a little antithetical to what Lovecraft tried to evoke. He was a big fan of creating allegedly incomprehensible creatures and concepts. This works well in media like books, where you can afford to go in as much or as little detail you want. Video games however have an explicit visual layer that they are expected to use. Usually the indescribable immediately becomes easily describable once you ask an artist to make a 3D model of it. It's a downside of visual media, but I guess I'm not going to feel too bad that a vision of some bigoted asshole got appropriated and compromised.
I'd say continue to use it, and transform it beyond its origins.
I haven't seen any of Lovecrafts racism have an influence on the themes and trappings we've borrowed from his work, especially when compared to influences taken from his peers and pulp writers of the day.
Lovecraft's influence on modern horror is way too strong for something like this to make sense. The genre has transcended his direct influence long ago I think. Now there's works inspired by works inspired by works inspired by Lovecraft. His racism is garbage, but its impact has been surpassed for the most part I think.
There was an article about how Bloodborne subverts Lovecraft not too long ago.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/games/23-0...-how-bloodborne-slyly-calls-out-hp-lovecraft/
https://thespinoff.co.nz/games/23-0...-how-bloodborne-slyly-calls-out-hp-lovecraft/
As I said, YOU need to decide what you want to do about Lovecraft's views. They're hateful, they're racist. It's not up for discussion.
We're not part of an authority that can decide if we can expunge Lovecraft from the list of popular or influential authors. We can't really remove him from history.
The questions we're discussing is whether his views did bleed into his work in a way that makes it unredeemable or if there's something of value that isn't tarnished by those views. And before or after that, if the nature of his views is sufficient to make his work tarnished whether it is influenced by them or not. And if his position was actually uncharacteristically racist for his time or not.
And if it matters, Lovecraft hated my "ethnicity" with a passion and considered it the ruin of american society, in particular after his time in Red Hook.
The discussion isn't whether Lovecraft was racist or not. He was. And it's not even about whether Lovecraft's racism was fine. It wasn't.
It's about what do we do with that information, and how we want to behave. The least important thing in Lovecraft's legacy is his actual work. He was a mediocre writer and none of his novellas is unforgettable. But his legacy has inspired and continues to inspire people, and we're getting plenty of "lovecraftian" material that is devoid of any racist baggage. Should we expunge all that too?
Yep. Literally came in to post this. Hbomberguy makes fantastic videos full stop but this is one of his best.
It's such a weak take to be like "Guys, did you know Lovecraft was racist!" And that we cannot divorce that at all from his work. Ultimately, he has some of the most important and influential ideas in the horror genre and it would be a travesty to not draw inspiration from that based on his views. Views that are a bit more complicated anyway, as pointed out in this video, it seems Lovecraft hated himself just much as anyone else.
Okay, how many games these days are directly influenced by his work?
I'm looking at my shelf of games and can't really say any of them have a strong Lovecraftian influence.
I'm looking at my shelf of games and can't really say any of them have a strong Lovecraftian influence.