-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Don't Give Homeless People Money. Here's An Alternative.
- Thread starter Painguy
- Start date
Treating the homeless as a monolith is disingenuous.
I welcome you to visit San Francisco and see for yourself what the homeless are like here (Market St / 6th St, Tenderloin on Larkin / Hyde Streets, Division Street are good places to start). The city spends tons of money on providing shelters, navigation centers, keeping people who have lost their homes due to job loss / divorce / domestic abuse sheltered.
Despite all the resources that the city provides (and that residents are happy to be taxed for, including myself), somehow there are still tents on the streets, shit and piss all over downtown, and people passed out at all times of the day from shooting up. I've seen drug addicts throw needles around like it was nothing, and crack heads light up pipes on BART with kids in the same compartment.
You can stick your head in the sand all you want, but the reality is a cohort of the homeless simply do not want to engage with any of the programs the city offers. They prefer to live on the streets and use drugs, and sadly SF tolerates this. I'm not going to give these people money because all that's doing is maintaining status quo.
I volunteer at two organizations (SF Glide and St Anthony's) and have seen enough to know who is just down on their luck and who doesn't want to participate in society anymore.
The best way to help, and this has been said in this thread before, is to donate to shelters and vote for representatives who believe in opening up additional mental health and rehab facilities.
Not really. I haven't been inside a Taco Bell since.
No. It's not your responsibility to dig into that person's life. If you don't want to give them money then don't, but it's honestly pathetic that you're trying to shame those who do give money to the point where you are insisting that somehow we must assume that every homeless person is automatically a drug addict.
Ironic considering I haven't done this.
And to suggest that enough of them would put the money directly towards feeding their addictions thereby making donating money directly a bad idea is also dishonest.
And yes, the problem is not being solved by throwing money at those in need, BUT it absolutely helps too many of those in need to ignore.
So give money AND vote/support as you suggest, both are equally needed.
Wow.
That's a hell of a hot take. Just because I disagree with you a) I must be against giving to the homeless and b) assume every homeless person is on drugs.
You understand that what I put against you was a hypothetical? What part of it, involved intimate knowledge of a person's life?
So far, you know nothing about where I stand and I think it's funny that you're now accusing me of shaming people, when it was your post that shamed those that didn't give.
My whole point is that it's such a dumb way to look at things. To ignore all context. It becomes absurd, it's why gun analogy worked under that frame work. Do you believe in Free Will? Is that what this is? Are you big agency memer?
I have no idea what the hell you are going on about. And where am I shaming people who don't give? I said "if you don't want to give them money then don't". How does that translate into "shame on you for not giving them money"?
Sorry. I thought you were the person I was responding too, my bad. Aside from the 4th line, the rest still applies. You going to respond to that?
Hell I'll walk in the liquor store and get them a drink myself. They're only human. Of course I will offer to buy food or anything like that (if someone asks for food, I'll always, always buy some for them) but I'm not gonna judge if someone needs a drink to get through the day.
Fine, it's easy to get caught up in a post that it seems like the same person is responding to you. As for the rest, I still think the hypothetical is silly because even if there is a crack epidemic, that doesn't mean that the homelesss are the ones using them. And even if it is, I cannot just assume the person in front of me is a crack user just because he is homeless and needs money. As for the bottom line...I'm sorry but I still don't get what you mean by "big agency memer".
I work in DTLA and giving to every panhandler/homeless person I see on a daily basis would be impracticable. Even if I was able or so inclined, I wouldn't be comfortable giving money for the moral reasons touched upon in the OP. This may not be representative of the homeless population at large, but unfortunately, the homeless people I encounter in DTLA are typically either mentally ill, on drugs, or both.
That said, I've gladly voted for state and city measures to provide housing and services to the homeless, for whatever it's worth.
That said, I've gladly voted for state and city measures to provide housing and services to the homeless, for whatever it's worth.
Being mentally ill is a reason to not give someone money now? Like for the medication they might need?
After being around SF homeless and to a lesser extent Denver homeless, I don't engage with them out of self preservation. I've been harassed a few too many times after engaging even slightly. I ignore their existence.
From LA and same. And it's not just DTLA.
I've heard people from other major urban cities that also deal with homeless feel that LA's homeless is a more unique situation - mental illness and violence being much more obvious and apparent as they put themselves and others in danger. Having been to other cities I'm inclined to agree and having been attacked in my neighborhood twice, I now avoid. I'll vote where I can and donate where I can but I don't want to be anywhere near.
If I have cash I give it to them, period.
If they choose to use the money for drugs that is entirely on them.
My help isn't conditional; they asked, I obliged, and I wish them the best.
If they choose to use the money for drugs that is entirely on them.
My help isn't conditional; they asked, I obliged, and I wish them the best.
I do wonder how many of you can't "in good conscience" give money because they might use it badly and then go to clubs and get blackout drunk.
I don't know. I feel like a life on the streets is a better reason to want to drink than to do it just because you want to party.
I don't know. I feel like a life on the streets is a better reason to want to drink than to do it just because you want to party.
Yes. These guys are against social welfare reform in many respects. It's because giving money to people directly is something that compromises their job, and by this I mean they care about having their job and see direct cash as a threat to that.
What they proclaim also fights in the face to what we know via UBI pilots anyway, so their arguments are already on wishy-washy grounds. Direct cash transfers are the best solution to poverty.
You do realize to apply for a job you usually need an ID (costs money), a social security card (costs money to replace if lost), a phone number (cost money), and usually a home address of some sort (can be used by employers to weed out homeless people because "they're all thieves and drug addicts)
People need money for more than just food and drugs, OP. Assuming that any money not going into food will automatically go into drugs is pretty shitty.
What about homeless people with mental issues, which is a large proportion of them? That's usually the bigger problem, not those who are actually mentally stable enough to reach out for those services of their own free will.
What about homeless people with mental issues, which is a large proportion of them? That's usually the bigger problem, not those who are actually mentally stable enough to reach out for those services of their own free will.
Last edited:
Years ago I bought a cheap tool set off of a young lady who needed $20 in gas. It was your basic starter tool-set for road side assistance, felt guilty tried to give it back to her after adding $20 in gas to her truck, she refused, I still have that set.
A few years later a guy asked for help in a gas station, had his family in a truck, was starting a new job the next day, had no money what so ever. So I asked him where they would like to eat dinner, he and his family were floored, they were quite happy. Gave him my number and he called a few weeks later to tell me the job was going well and they had gotten into a rental.
But if I see someone panhandling near a highway exit, I don't dole out cash, chances are, a block away they have a nicer car than me and this is their tax free job. lol (there was an expose on that a few years back)
A few years later a guy asked for help in a gas station, had his family in a truck, was starting a new job the next day, had no money what so ever. So I asked him where they would like to eat dinner, he and his family were floored, they were quite happy. Gave him my number and he called a few weeks later to tell me the job was going well and they had gotten into a rental.
But if I see someone panhandling near a highway exit, I don't dole out cash, chances are, a block away they have a nicer car than me and this is their tax free job. lol (there was an expose on that a few years back)
I saw something (UK based on the news) which explained back pre 2000 we gave the homeless support to get off drugs and alcohol; now it seems it's zero tolerance at hostels for these things instead of weaning them off and heck, if my life was as bad as some of these people (and I've drank a fair bit in my time when feeling down and taken the a bit of illicit stuff) then I can't really blame them; and I've always had family support and an okay job. If I had to sleep outside, especially in winter I'd want to be (rightly or wrongly) off my tits.
I do try and give food though but I can totally empathise with these people.
I do try and give food though but I can totally empathise with these people.
I remember joking that someone was bound to create a cheap contactless device that acted as both a wallet and a simple payment terminal, that they'd lease to homeless people while taking a small fee off every transaction.
AFAIK, no tech asshole predator has done this yet.
There's a guy who posts up at the top of an off ramp near a busy intersection. I once gave him a $5 bill and later found out that he's actually a retired man who parks his nice car near the bougie grocery store and begs for money all day for "something to do to earn some extra money". He plays the part very well with his dirty clothes and busted up sign. I'm very cautious about who I now give money to. I don't like to be swindled.
Back on topic; just give them money. They are old enough to decide what to do with it. Hopefully not drugs, but it's not my call I guess.
Back on topic; just give them money. They are old enough to decide what to do with it. Hopefully not drugs, but it's not my call I guess.
Where I'm from we've had documentaries by people who have gone "undercover" as homeless people as well as those who have recovered from their homelessness and the message from them is all the same: "do not give money". Why? Because if everybody gives money the person can literally make more money from begging than from working. Furthermore you end up with cartels which place homeless people (including kids) in strategic places in order to siphon as much money off society as possible. People saying "you're taking away agency by not giving money" are literally part of the problem. Rather support those who help the less fortunate with your funds and time.
If their behavior is erratic enough to make me question their ability to use the money in a responsible, helpful, or meaningful way, sure.
There is some research that the vast majority of homeless people are homeless for a very short period of time and what public services are there are very effective at getting them back on their feet. There's a percentage of repeat offenders that are a drain on economic resources due to OD's, etc. These are the ones you see on the street. The study shows that paying for their homes and care is actually a better investment of money, than paying their continual medical, police, etc bills. Because again, the majority of homeless are in and out of it pretty quick. I know Denver tried this out by opening up 250 homes for chronic homeless persons. Not sure how it turned out. Malcom Gladwell wrote an article in The New Yorker called Million Dollar Murray about it, behind a paywall but it was an interesting take on the problem.
So to answer the OP, I don't give anything to the repeat homeless in my area (there are a lot of them). There was literally an OD on my street last week. They need far more financial support than my dollar or even $200 they might be able to pan handle can provide. Food and shelter is already provided by the city unless they are a danger to other homeless and in that case I'll keep my distance anyway.
Instead of feeling guilty about not giving them money, go help the homeless that really want to be helped by visiting shelters and donating your time.
So to answer the OP, I don't give anything to the repeat homeless in my area (there are a lot of them). There was literally an OD on my street last week. They need far more financial support than my dollar or even $200 they might be able to pan handle can provide. Food and shelter is already provided by the city unless they are a danger to other homeless and in that case I'll keep my distance anyway.
Instead of feeling guilty about not giving them money, go help the homeless that really want to be helped by visiting shelters and donating your time.
I don't know if this has been said before, but why not do both? Give them something like $10 and offer to buy them food from any restaurant of their choice. I mean, if they end up wasting the $10 on drugs or something, so what? That's their problem. But at least you made sure they were given a hearty warm meal along with it.
Don't worry, im homeless in the Netherlands, so i don't know if people in other countries are homeless for the same reasons. Before I became homeless I had certain thoughts about homeless people and shelters and boy was I wrong.
Thanks, your reaction really means a lot to me. It's not easy, but me and my wife make the best out of it. We are not staying in the same shelter, so we miss each other. But i must say that for every bad experience we had in this situation, we had 2 beautiful experiences. We just have to be open minded to see the good stuff. Im not a fighting kind of guy, so i wasnt sure how to stay safe, but because i talk to everybody i gained a lot of respect and that makes it easier.
For everybody in this topic: if you dont want give money, that's your decision, just know being homeless can be a struggle for a long time. So try to talk to them from time to time. They also like to feel like respected humans. A conversation is totally free and works better against drug abuse then ignoring them.
