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Nov 3, 2017
376
BS-X
I don't think Nintendo even have BS games anymore
Satellaview games?

Well, to begin with, quite a lot of them are third party and there's no evidence Nintendo kept anything that isn't strictly first-party. So Nintendo wouldn't have anything for BS Bokujo Monogatari, those Takara games, or whatnot.

Whether or not anyone has Soundlink audio for many of the games is a question of the ages, since St.GIGA handled that aspect and they had a falling out with Nintendo even before the Satellaview shut down - notably, for BS Zelda MSU1 the BGM/SFX were reconstructed using what a combination of what was known to have been used and masterful sound manipulation to "clean" the audio of aged recordings.

There were some past times when assets from a Satellaview project popped up, though - for example, the vocal song "Wind" from BS Fire Emblem was on IntSys's website as a low-quality MP3 at one point.

I wouldn't be so sure... They did remake the BS Fire Emblem content for New Mystery of the Emblem; so they must have had something to use as reference.

The Shin Monshou trial map versions of the BSFE chapters aren't really mechanically like the originals at all (The only similarities are the map designs, basically). The art book release that corresponded with the game would be a better example since that actually had some BS Fire Emblem art included.
 

Starkiller

Member
Jan 30, 2018
470
Bumping because i decided to do some research of my own (I'm working on a video series about the history of the three console manufacturers attempts at backwards compatibility/emulation re-releases over the years.)

First off, calling Tomohiro Kawase the "Animal Crossing emulator" developer is a bit of an understatement. He (Alongside Hideaki Shimizu.) actually handled a lot of emulation projects for Nintendo. His first role at the company was making the "GB Tower" mode in Pokemon Stadium, which was effectively a Game Boy emulator that could run the 1st gen (2nd gen in Stadium 2/GS) mainline Pokemon games by inserting their carts into the transfer pak.
172429-pokemon-stadium-nintendo-64-screenshot-pokemon-stadium-also.jpg

In fact, almost all of his work at Nintendo revolves around emulation.
Pretty much everything he's credited for involves it in some form, he's listed for "Connectivity Programming" in Metroid Prime (Which allowed you to play the NES Metroid on a Gamecube, unlocked by syncing a completed Metroid Fusion save file to the game using a link cable.) "engineering" on the Zelda Collector's Edition disc (Which was a compilation of NES and N64 games running on an emulator.) and even the "NES Emulator Programmer" on the E-reader.

(About 1:24 in if the timestamp doesn't work.)

So it's highly likely he was indeed hired for working on iNES.

As for the header situation, here's what i discovered.

The first thing i did was extract the Super Mario Bros ROM from Animal Crossing, a fairly easy task, as all the NES emulator content is conveniently stored in a single compressed file named "famicom.arc", which is then in turn stored as a bunch of ".szs" files. Using ARCtool and Uwizard in that order did the trick. Giving us a unnamed 41kb file.
Lh7NM6r.png

i8mGvBW.png

(before and after extraction, note that the ".nes" was added myself to make sure it could run on an emulator, as noted, the file was completely unnamed when i extracted it.)
After verifying said unnamed file was indeed Super Mario Bros by using an NES emulator. I then acquired the Virtual Console version of Super Mario Bros. Thankfully, there's a tool known "vcromclaim" that completely automates the process of extracting VC titles, so i used that.
43mnCjc.png

This worked, but there's one problem. The file size is incorrect! Super Mario Bros is a 41kb game, while my dump turned it into 320kb. Fortunately, fixing it was pretty easy, it turns out VCromclaim grabbed a bunch of text and data from the VC emulator and appended it to the end of the rom. After chopping that out, the file size was fixed to the correct size of 41kb.

and the result of doing a comparison after this?
93UOL34.png

Yep, the Virtual Console ROM does in fact originate from Animal Crossing. iNES header and all. In fact, all of the NES games in Animal Crossing have it, with the notable exception of Clu Clu Land D, which lacks a header entirely, starting with the "*NINTENDO-HVC*" text that is normally used by the FDS bios to verify that it's a legit disk image, the NES emulation community didn't start using standardized headers for FDS games until around November 1998 with the release of the fwnes emulator. About 3 months after the release of Pokemon Stadium, Tomohiro Kawase's first project at Nintendo.

I feel like the most logical conclusion here is this.
  1. Nintendo discovers iNES and, rather than sending a C&D, hunts down one of the devs and hires him to help implement a Game Boy emulator into Pokemon Stadium (Not to be confused with the US/EU release of the game, which is actually a sequel in Japan), released in 1998.
  2. Animal Crossing starts development on the Nintendo 64DD, at some point the decision was made to add playable NES games to it. So the team brought Tomohiro on board due to his experience with the hardware.
  3. With Tomohiro's help, the NES games are dumped internally for the game, most likely using the same tech the iNES team used, leading to the header issue. The fact that Clu Clu Land D lacks the standardized "FDS" header used by the emulation community at that point outright confirms they didn't "download the roms off the internet".
and that's basically everything you need to know about the subject.


Acording to the Nintendo Wiki, the last game he worked on was the Classic NES series for the GBA in 20p4. What happened to Kawase since then?

https://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Tomohiro_Kawase
 

Krvavi Abadas

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,254
Videoland
Another important thing to note here is Clu Clu Land D itself (Which is called "Clu Clu Land: Welcome to New Clu Clu Land")
It was never actually sold in stores back when it first came out, it was only available by writing it on a blank disk using the Famicom writer.
mzcruaq82vhzwxith3vb.jpg

As a result, it's exceptionally rare, on a similar level to the Sattelview in that both require you to hunt down blank disks to possibly find it.
ROM dumps do exist for it, but even those are hard to find. Though i was eventually able to find one dated to...
HQfbJEt.png

Oh, let's do a comparison with the Animal Crossing ROM then.
yn6F8Fu.png

Pretty different, thankfully, NESdev has a good explanation on how this is set up. This part in particular is important.
Date format
All bytes are stored in BCD format, in order of year, month, and day. To accurately calculate they year, add 1925 to the BCD value. For example, values of $63 $11 $28 would represent November ($11) 28th ($28), 1988 ($63 + 1925). The "magic year" of 1925 comes from the Japanese Shōwa period, despite the era only lasting from 1925 until 1989. Titles manufactured or updated later than 1989 are considered legitimate (e.g. $83 + 1925 = 2008).
so we can nab the "Rewritten disk" date of these files by checking offsets 2c-2e, let's start with that unofficial dump.
70 01 25
70 + 1925 = 1995
January 25th 1995
Off to a good start, so now we know the dump was made a year after Clu Clu Land was written onto it. How about Animal Crossing?
63 11 22
63 + 1925 = 1988
November 22nd 1988
Now this is interesting. Welcome to New Clu Clu Land wasn't actually released until 1992, 4 years after that date (In fact it was the last FDS game released). Except that the game is in fact copyrighted to 1988, it says so on the title screen.
2785963-clu+clu+land+-+welcome+to+new+clu+clu+land+%281988%29%28nintendo%29_001.jpg

It's unknown why Nintendo delayed the game for so long, but the fact the rewritten disk date in Animal Crossing matches up with the copyright date and not the actual release date outright confirms that it was sourced from their own archives.

Edit: It should be noted that there's actually two dates here, the "Rewritten disk" date, which notes when a disk was rewritten using the writer. and the "Manufacturing" date. Which appears to represent the actual date the program was compiled. On both the unofficial dump and the official dump, the latter date (Offset 1F-21, you can actually see it in the image if you look closely.) is actually 63 11 22 in both cases. But the former date is different on both, and more importantly, is identical to the manufacturing date on the Animal Crossing file. Needless to say, if it wasn't obvious enough earlier. The Animal Crossing roms are definitely sourced from Nintendo's archives.


If I may counter-argue this, the FDS preservation scene was a much bigger mess than the NES one and the lack of a standardized FDS header wouldn't really prove anything when FDS images were going around the internet without one (I downloaded and played FDS disc images on a Dreamcast long before there was a standardized header format, for example).

Also, FDS disc piracy is rather infamous - there's even FDS disc copier tools you could theoretically purchase now. And of course, pirated and hacked FDS images were on the internet to such a degree that no-intro's "solution" for proper preservation was to re-dump every single game from a confirmed new, sealed copy.

Rather than it proving or disproving anything, a FDS image just raises more questions.

Yeah, i screwed up a bit in handling the info about the FDS header. I mistook the *NINTENDO-HVC* thing as being a custom header, for one.

Thanks, a moderator has updated the thread title.

Krvavi Abadas Want me to quote your entire post in the OP section?

Go for it.
 
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Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,864
Then you should quote the post by hitting the "reply" button. And the poster above you or the one above that didn't ask any questions or say anything that makes your post fit and make sense to me so I'm still confused how you came to that conclusion.

I was lamenting to the post above me referring to the lack of office space for third-parties on how Nintendo might not have Satellaview games anymore even with the treasures they hold. You just wanted to throw a snarky comment, that's fine, I hope you got your kick out of it.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,495
Oh, huh, that discovery's kinda amazing. What a weird secret history to the baffling header thing, hah.

Wonder how well it'll spread now, though.
 

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,696
Panama
this kind of stuff is pretty interesting to look into. it's like real life mysteries. you could make a game about this kinds of thing.

i still hope someday more unreleased 64DD stuff surfaces like the 64DD version of OoT MQ. if a 64DD disk of that ever showed up it'd be a holy grail, especially seeing it in action on 64DD hardware and with an OoT cart.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
This news is interesting since it gained so little traction that I didn't see it until now and it got like 3 pages in 2 months.

During the emu paradise thing, the original article was constantly quoted at me with people implying that it mattered even if it did happen.
Nintendo's been good at archiving their games since pretty early and games like SMB weren't at risk of being lost forever just because it seemed like Nintendo downloaded it.

It's an interesting piece of trivia In any case.
Glad it was updated so I got to saw it.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
I was lamenting to the post above me referring to the lack of office space for third-parties on how Nintendo might not have Satellaview games anymore even with the treasures they hold. You just wanted to throw a snarky comment, that's fine, I hope you got your kick out of it.
No, I wanted to point out that your comment makes no sense in light of all the things that have been discussed here previously. Not sure how that's a snarky comment.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,933
I suspected there was more to this story, good to see the truth verified. Shame that Cifaldi ended up spreading a misleading meme
 

S_Dev

Member
Oct 26, 2017
112
Someone give this man a tag! This is super interesting stuff, I would love to see a write up about the Sattelview Rom hunting.
Another important thing to note here is Clu Clu Land D itself (Which is called "Clu Clu Land: Welcome to New Clu Clu Land")
It was never actually sold in stores back when it first came out, it was only available by writing it on a blank disk using the Famicom writer.
mzcruaq82vhzwxith3vb.jpg

As a result, it's exceptionally rare, on a similar level to the Sattelview in that both require you to hunt down blank disks to possibly find it.
ROM dumps do exist for it, but even those are hard to find. Though i was eventually able to find one dated to...
HQfbJEt.png

Oh, let's do a comparison with the Animal Crossing ROM then.
yn6F8Fu.png

Pretty different, thankfully, NESdev has a good explanation on how this is set up. This part in particular is important.

so we can nab the date of these files by checking offsets 2c-2e, let's start with that unofficial dump.

Off to a good start, so we know the dump was made a year after said disk was manufactured i think (I'm not sure if the date refers to when the disk was rewritten, or it was initially made.) How about Animal Crossing?

Now this is interesting. Welcome to New Clu Clu Land wasn't actually released until 1992, 4 years after that date (In fact it was the last FDS game released). Except that the game is in fact copyrighted to 1988, it says so on the title screen.
2785963-clu+clu+land+-+welcome+to+new+clu+clu+land+%281988%29%28nintendo%29_001.jpg

It's unknown why Nintendo delayed the game for so long, but the fact the manufacturing date in Animal Crossing matches up with the copyright date and not the actual release date outright confirms that it was sourced from their own archives.



Yeah, i screwed up a bit in handling the info about the FDS header. I mistook the *NINTENDO-HVC* thing as being a custom header, for one.



Go for it.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,034
Another important thing to note here is Clu Clu Land D itself (Which is called "Clu Clu Land: Welcome to New Clu Clu Land")
It was never actually sold in stores back when it first came out, it was only available by writing it on a blank disk using the Famicom writer.
mzcruaq82vhzwxith3vb.jpg

As a result, it's exceptionally rare, on a similar level to the Sattelview in that both require you to hunt down blank disks to possibly find it.
ROM dumps do exist for it, but even those are hard to find. Though i was eventually able to find one dated to...
HQfbJEt.png

Oh, let's do a comparison with the Animal Crossing ROM then.
yn6F8Fu.png

Pretty different, thankfully, NESdev has a good explanation on how this is set up. This part in particular is important.

so we can nab the date of these files by checking offsets 2c-2e, let's start with that unofficial dump.

Off to a good start, so we know the dump was made a year after said disk was manufactured i think (I'm not sure if the date refers to when the disk was rewritten, or it was initially made.) How about Animal Crossing?

Now this is interesting. Welcome to New Clu Clu Land wasn't actually released until 1992, 4 years after that date (In fact it was the last FDS game released). Except that the game is in fact copyrighted to 1988, it says so on the title screen.
2785963-clu+clu+land+-+welcome+to+new+clu+clu+land+%281988%29%28nintendo%29_001.jpg

It's unknown why Nintendo delayed the game for so long, but the fact the manufacturing date in Animal Crossing matches up with the copyright date and not the actual release date outright confirms that it was sourced from their own archives.



Yeah, i screwed up a bit in handling the info about the FDS header. I mistook the *NINTENDO-HVC* thing as being a custom header, for one.



Go for it.
This is great work. Really interesting. Thanks for writing everything up
 

mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
16,777
Super interesting info in this thread, I'm waiting with bated breath on the vid that's going to result in it.
Krvavi Abadas, if you have a youtube channel, I'm ready to sub for the inevitable vid you're gonna make about it.
Never mind it's in your profile.
I'm subbing right now.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,661
Cifaldi's comments are interesting, and I have some sympathy with his first tweet there, but he's a smart guy and had to have had some idea that:

"I would posit that Nintendo downloaded Super Mario Bros. from the internet and sold it to you!"

...was both a great "gotcha" line to include in his talk and something the enthusiast media would seize on, particularly when the cost of Nintendo's VC offerings and the quality of the emulation is a regular topic of conversation. I don't think it was presented as a "vaguely-researched theory" at the time, and it certainly got a lot of attention as a "proof" that Nintendo were doing exactly what Cifaldi claimed (regardless of how "vaguely-researched" his claim was).

His talk was great, with a lot of interesting food for thought, and it's a shame this one claim and the one-liner about it got much of the attention, but I think in this case he's really got to own that outcome :-)

This, all of it. Cifaldi is being very disingenuous with those tweets. I get and totally respect what he's saying that the state of game preservation being severely lacking on the corporate side of things from most companies is the most important thing to take away from his GDC speech (which was a great speech) but to say "Hmmph, well I didn't really fully research the line about 'Nintendo downloading SMB and reselling it' which I largely used as the main framing device for the subject of my talk but that's not my fault somehow because it just ended up being misused for a bunch of pointless click bait headlines" is pretty weak.

Also, did anyone ever bring up the input lag issues with Mega Man LC to him or was that just another snippy "Talk to Capcom" response?
 
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Krvavi Abadas

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,254
Videoland
Someone give this man a tag! This is super interesting stuff, I would love to see a write up about the Sattelview Rom hunting.

That actually exists. This passage is particularly relevant to what i said.
The thing about rewritable media, however, is that data is often preserved until it's overwritten by other data, meaning things that seem inaccessible can be retrieved with hacking wizardry. The money-saving inclination to simply overwrite the old with the new, however, makes finding certain games and episodes extremely difficult. Some titles, particularly the Squaresoft offerings, could be played infinitely after being downloaded, which makes them fairly easy to obtain.

"One of the frustrating things is that an 8M Pack with verified data can cost quite a bit," Kiddo continues. "[But] a lot of undumped material comes from 8M Packs sold as junk, empty, etc. and as such, it's basically gambling. Throwing money at something and seeing if you get what you want out of it." Western Satellaview fans often coordinate efforts privately to find and purchase 8M packs.

ChronoMoogle is among the people scouring numerous outlets for 8M packs to check for data, and laments how scarce and pricey they have become. "It's sad because the empty ones have no practical use in any way. They need to get dumped," he said. "Instead, collectors buy them and put them on their shelf as some piece of unusable gaming history."
 

Citizen Rizer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
265
I like how Cifaldi is attacking the media for reporting on what he said instead of owning up to his mistake of spreading misinformation. "I guess I made a mistake, but if you think about it, it's really the media's fault for reporting my mistake!" If something is "vaguely-researched" perhaps you shouldn't present it as fact while giving a talk where you're being presented as an "expert."
 

LuigiBlood

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
98
away from Era
I like how Cifaldi is attacking the media for reporting on what he said instead of owning up to his mistake of spreading misinformation. "I guess I made a mistake, but if you think about it, it's really the media's fault for reporting my mistake!" If something is "vaguely-researched" perhaps you shouldn't present it as fact while giving a talk where you're being presented as an "expert."
To be honest it's both faults. Cifaldi still made a talk about gaming preservation but the media only took one thing from it for the headlines that's barely any important.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,040
Pennsylvania
Bumping because i decided to do some research of my own (I'm working on a video series about the history of the three console manufacturers attempts at backwards compatibility/emulation re-releases over the years.)

First off, calling Tomohiro Kawase the "Animal Crossing emulator" developer is a bit of an understatement. He (Alongside Hideaki Shimizu.) actually handled a lot of emulation projects for Nintendo. His first role at the company was making the "GB Tower" mode in Pokemon Stadium, which was effectively a Game Boy emulator that could run the 1st gen (2nd gen in Stadium 2/GS) mainline Pokemon games by inserting their carts into the transfer pak.
172429-pokemon-stadium-nintendo-64-screenshot-pokemon-stadium-also.jpg

In fact, almost all of his work at Nintendo revolves around emulation.
Pretty much everything he's credited for involves it in some form, he's listed for "Connectivity Programming" in Metroid Prime (Which allowed you to play the NES Metroid on a Gamecube, unlocked by syncing a completed Metroid Fusion save file to the game using a link cable.) "engineering" on the Zelda Collector's Edition disc (Which was a compilation of NES and N64 games running on an emulator.) and even the "NES Emulator Programmer" on the E-reader.

(About 1:24 in if the timestamp doesn't work.)

So it's highly likely he was indeed hired for working on iNES.

As for the header situation, here's what i discovered.

The first thing i did was extract the Super Mario Bros ROM from Animal Crossing, a fairly easy task, as all the NES emulator content is conveniently stored in a single compressed file named "famicom.arc", which is then in turn stored as a bunch of ".szs" files. Using ARCtool and Uwizard in that order did the trick. Giving us a unnamed 41kb file.
Lh7NM6r.png

i8mGvBW.png

(before and after extraction, note that the ".nes" was added myself to make sure it could run on an emulator, as noted, the file was completely unnamed when i extracted it.)
After verifying said unnamed file was indeed Super Mario Bros by using an NES emulator. I then acquired the Virtual Console version of Super Mario Bros. Thankfully, there's a tool known "vcromclaim" that completely automates the process of extracting VC titles, so i used that.
43mnCjc.png

This worked, but there's one problem. The file size is incorrect! Super Mario Bros is a 41kb game, while my dump turned it into 320kb. Fortunately, fixing it was pretty easy, it turns out VCromclaim grabbed a bunch of text and data from the VC emulator and appended it to the end of the rom. After chopping that out, the file size was fixed to the correct size of 41kb.

and the result of doing a comparison after this?
93UOL34.png

Yep, the Virtual Console ROM does in fact originate from Animal Crossing. iNES header and all. In fact, all of the NES games in Animal Crossing have it, with the notable exception of Clu Clu Land D, which lacks a header entirely, starting with the "*NINTENDO-HVC*" text that is normally used by the FDS bios to verify that it's a legit disk image, the NES emulation community didn't start using standardized headers for FDS games until around November 1998 with the release of the fwnes emulator. About 3 months after the release of Pokemon Stadium, Tomohiro Kawase's first project at Nintendo.

I feel like the most logical conclusion here is this.
  1. Nintendo discovers iNES and, rather than sending a C&D, hunts down one of the devs and hires him to help implement a Game Boy emulator into Pokemon Stadium (Not to be confused with the US/EU release of the game, which is actually a sequel in Japan), released in 1998.
  2. Animal Crossing starts development on the Nintendo 64DD, at some point the decision was made to add playable NES games to it. So the team brought Tomohiro on board due to his experience with the hardware.
  3. With Tomohiro's help, the NES games are dumped internally for the game, most likely using the same tech the iNES team used, leading to the header issue. The fact that Clu Clu Land D lacks the standardized "FDS" header used by the emulation community at that point outright confirms they didn't "download the roms off the internet".
and that's basically everything you need to know about the subject.

The great ROM detective everybody!

Excellent work!
 

Ninjadom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,195
London, UK
This news is interesting since it gained so little traction that I didn't see it until now and it got like 3 pages in 2 months.

During the emu paradise thing, the original article was constantly quoted at me with people implying that it mattered even if it did happen.
Nintendo's been good at archiving their games since pretty early and games like SMB weren't at risk of being lost forever just because it seemed like Nintendo downloaded it.

It's an interesting piece of trivia In any case.
Glad it was updated so I got to saw it.

Nintendo archives all of their hardware pretty well too. See SinCityAssassins pics of boxes of retail Famicom Disk Systems sitting at Nintendo HQ.
 

Ninjadom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,195
London, UK
Reading through again and I'm a bit confused. So the ROMs used in Animal Crossing originated from Nintendo themselves, right? Why did Nintendo use the existing iNes format for their ROMs instead of creating their own format from scratch? Or is that incredibly hard work?
Was Tomohiro Kawase one of the original devs of iNes in the 90's along with Marat Fayzullin?

EDIT: Just saw that Kawase was a sound engineer on iNes 0.7. Very fortunate for Nintendo Japan that Kawase was Japanese.
 

Agent Unknown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,661
To be honest it's both faults. Cifaldi still made a talk about gaming preservation but the media only took one thing from it for the headlines that's barely any important.

Wrong. The media quoting something Cifaldi himself used as one of the main lines in his GDC talk for their headlines was not their fault, it was their job. Cifaldi took it upon himself to state in his GDC talk "I would posit that Nintendo downloaded Super Mario Bros. from the internet and sold it to you!" and used that as a standout line to frame the subject of his talk regarding game preservation. That line was something absolutely worth discussing in the context of his game preservation speech and general concerns over how Nintendo and other companies handle their classic game catalogs, so of course the media was going to mention he said that when they reported on his GDC speech.

Cifaldi now saying 'A bunch of people in the media misquoted me and made irresponsible headlines saying NINTENDO STOLE THEIR OWN ROMS!' is complete revisionist nonsense on his part because A)That is a completely hyperbolic variation of what he himself said B) A simple internet search shows the majority of articles quoting his line about 'Nintendo downloading and reselling SMB' were not "gotcha" articles at all and actually thoughtfully discussed the subject of his GDC talk. But as usual Cifaldi gets annoyed and tries to pass the buck when things like this are brought to his attention. 'Mega Man LC which I touted as showing the need for "Criterion Collection" quality game compilations has issues and needs patches? That's not our fault, go talk to Capcom. I said Nintendo downloaded a SMB rom from the internet and resold it to people? That was just the media misquoting me with loud nerd headlines and I didn't thoroughly research that bit anyways.'

I definitely respect a lot of what Cifaldi is trying to do overall regarding game preservation but stuff like that really rubs me the wrong way and is a terrible look. Also, if another company like M2 had handled the Mega Man Legacy Collection it's highly doubtful it would have had problems like sound issues and noticeable input lag.
 
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D.Lo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,348
Sydney
I asked Frank what his opinion was:



As well as if this was the best way for Nintendo to extract their roms and how to improve emulation theoretically:



Pretty great insight honestly. I agree with his point about how there really aren't technical limitations to preserving old games and also agree that the whole Nintendo taking a rom off the internet bit was focused on way too much. I hope no one gives him shit over this.
No, he should have owned up to it.

His big gotcha point in the speech, with much laughter and applause, that he drove home by repeating the same point several times and quoting himself on the screen, was that Nintendo were hypocrites for saying 'emulators developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software promote piracy' on their website because they used emulators themselves on Wii (already wrong there since the emulators on Wii were not 'emulators developed to play illegally copied Nintendo software') and their roms used iNES headers. Quote: "I would posit that Nintendo downloaded Super Mario Bros. from the internet and sold it to you" and "Nintendo is pirating its own roms and selling it to you"
 
OP
OP
delete12345

delete12345

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
19,687
Boston, MA
This is coming from Reddit, by the user /u/Hakase-Nyan

https://www.reddit.com/r/emulation/..._nintendo_actually_download_roms_for/e7iemhb/

An hint. Take a look at the Yoshi no Tamago (ヨッシーのたまご) ROM inside the Family Computer - Nintendo Switch Online.

You will find an interesting answer. Even interesting when you know that Nintendo created the TNES format for the 3DS VC since then and used the correctly dumped ROM, but uses now a GoodNES (badly dumped) ROM on their Switch services.

Thoughts?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,696
Japanese developers are historically notorious for not putting any consideration into preserving their code and assets. After a game shipped, that was it. If the source disks ended up in a dumpster, that was fine, they never planned on needing them in the future anyway.

More titles than not only have their retail release in existence.

And of course, one of the reasons why the preservation scene through emulation came about was because of the fear of losing these pieces to time and allowing subsequent generations to get the same enjoyment of play as their parents.

But great piece of work there Krvavi, Cifaldi owes you a drink, methinks!
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,925
OP
OP
delete12345

delete12345

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2017
19,687
Boston, MA
NES on 3DS VC and Switch Online are coming from different divisions in different regions. EPD in Kyoto and NERD in Paris respectively.
Hmmm, so we would need to extract and analyze those roms for comparisons in order to figure out why the discrepancy between the TNES and GoodNES dump is there, assuming the person I quoted is correct? I'm just thinking out loud.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,778
Video Games
NES on 3DS VC and Switch Online are coming from different divisions in different regions. EPD in Kyoto and NERD in Paris respectively.

NERD also did DS VC on Wii U and both NES and SNES Classics so it'd be interesting to extract and analyze those roms for comparison.
We have no official word that NERD handles NSO NES.
https://www.nerd.nintendo.com/

unless there is another source?
 
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One Winged Slayer
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Nov 17, 2017
19,687
Boston, MA
Do we have official word on who else is handling the NSO NES, other than Nintendo as a whole?
 
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mael

Avenger
Nov 3, 2017
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Who developed the GBA emulator used for some GC kiosks?



The discs were distributed to retailers ~2004. Don't recall GBA emulation being used in any released GameCube games.

there is however a working GBA emulator on GC....but that's probably just hardware emulation akin to Super GameBoy and totally different from what you're talking about.
 
Oct 29, 2017
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Who developed the GBA emulator used for some GC kiosks?



The discs were distributed to retailers ~2004. Don't recall GBA emulation being used in any released GameCube games.


Oh wow! I never even knew this disc existed!

There was one retail game that (probably) used GBA emulation... Wario Ware Mega Party Games. It's probably the same emulator.

Edit: Oh yeah, there's Pokemon Box Ruby/Sapphire as well. They're all probably using the same emulator, so it probably would've been made by Nintendo SPD.

We have no official word that NERD handles NSO NES.
https://www.nerd.nintendo.com/

unless there is another source?

People have already hacked into the NES Online app and have found that it's a port of the Canoe emulator used in the NES Classic. So it's almost certainly NERD's handiwork.
 
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One Winged Slayer
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Nov 17, 2017
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Agent Unknown

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Oct 26, 2017
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Apparently the version of Metroid on the Famicom Mini is a v1.3 that had never been dumped before.

http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/2018/08/investigating-games-on-nes-famicom-and.html

Thanks for posting that. Something I noticed in that article:

Excitebike on the NES Classic will save and load a player-made track to battery-backed SRAM.

The NES Classic uses a battery to back up its game saves? :/ Does the SNES Classic use a battery too?