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Is IGN objectifying women?
- Thread starter Cantona222
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She can dress and pose for photos however she wants. Ain't nothing wrong with her using these images of herself, even if they were more exposed.
I do think however there should be a balance. I don't know what other videos IGN does but as a very influential site\channel, if this is the only representation that women get on there then it becomes a problem.
I do think however there should be a balance. I don't know what other videos IGN does but as a very influential site\channel, if this is the only representation that women get on there then it becomes a problem.
I'm not saying the entire consensus is one way or the other, but rather observing where the contention is
Pretty much my thoughts as well. If she's in charge then it's fine.
Is this the infamous bad faith posting?
Of course it doesn't because that's the simplest and less travelled way to put it.
I see many different poses. Mind pointing out what you consider to be cleavage?
No, but yours clearly is by taking those out of context...
One was talking about what she is wearing in the video itself, the other about how the thumbnails are examples of marketing making use of objectification.
You can do better. than that.
I see many different poses. Mind pointing out what you consider to be cleavage?
Not playing that game with you, I have made myself more than clear.
And, btw, for some reason all I see are
This particular kind of marketing doesn't need to be changed. It's the objectionable stuff that does.
Marketing where sex very clearly is being used to sell should be curtailed and examined more.
And people should be admonished for posting objectifying comments in IGN's recent youtube videos. I'm on your side, Astro. But I do think you need to recalibrate what you consider to be objectification.
FWIW I don't think the phenomenon Astro is talking about is a non thing. It's definitey a thing, and you could easily point to other youtubers/content creators where it's definitely a thing. I think many people don't think it's a case with this particularly woman.
You agree with that? So you're agreeing that she should not have to hide her body in the thumbnails?
It's all part of the same machine and all has an effect.
I would say it needs to be considered as whole, absolutely, and this can be done without encroaching on individual agency and body positivity.
Better education for kids ; give them strong and positive role models they can look up to and a solid moral base so they can navigate these questions without us holding their hands. You've got to change the market, not the marketing.
I don't think censorship is a force of good.
I enjoyed the back and forth discussion and I respect your opinion and in fact agree with it. I luckily met a attractive woman and got married to her. I understand the media, from Bollywood to Hollywood, to musicians to hosts use sex to sell. And that's a fact. It isn't a coincidence IGN keep hiring attractive females for their Daily Fix videos. However the same can be said for hiring attractive men in soaps, or attractive male actors and musicians. However I agree attractive females is used more than men most of the time. And I agree toxic masculinity, depression (for men and women), sexism, and etc are all linked with this. This is something that's been going on for decades where attractive people (men or women) are used to sell. Unfortunately I think this is something that will never change in this world.
No, but yours clearly is by taking those out of context...
One was talking about what she is wearing in the video itself, the other about how the thumbnails are examples of marketing making use of objectification.
You can do better. than that.
Not playing that game with you, I have made myself more than clear.
And, btw, for some reason all I see are
What game? I'm asking you a question, I'd like to know what you consider to be cleavage in those pictures.
I'll even rehost it for you
It's nothing to do with censorship, but responsibility.
I actually don't agree with that, lol, I read it wrong. I agree with it in part. :)
I fail to see how answering that question has any value here. And I can't see your images.
It sounds to me like you just want her to hide her body or parts of her body because a lot of men suck. That's the only way this would work. She's not posing in any sexual way in these thumbnails from what I've seen and her body is what it is. And based on what you've posted, she should be aware of her sex appeal and hide parts of her body as to not perpetuate the objectification of women. Correct?
Objectively speaking about how mundane and ordinary her clothes are, as in walk down any high street and multiple people will be wearing similar, yes, I am going to suggest people don't behave like the Bible belt in America implying moralistic necessity of her to crop her own body if she wears anything slightly tight. IF the clothing examples were more blatant, then yes, that probably would open the door to more questioning around producer intent and/or asking what IGNs input on it was.
Seeing as she apparently produces the videos on top of being the content creator in them, as I said above, this is really shaping up to be another case of a community jumping the gun, even if there are plenty of valid conversations to be had around issues brought up in this topic.
One can both talk about issues within IGN, and also look at the large collection of thumbnails in this topic and make a reasonable judgement.
This.
But the responsibility lies on Astro and other posters not to try and make it a thing for this individual woman, just because it might be a thing in other situations.
It's okay to admit once more thumbail evidence came in this community probably jumped the gun on this one, without doubling down and trying to shoot for 30+ pages arguing just how conservative this woman has to dress not to crop her body out of a thumbnail. I think how she's dressing right now IS objectively very reasonable, without coming across like a priest in a Church stating there better be ankle length thick, frilly and loose dresses being worn.
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"I don't want to encroach on your body positivity, but could crop your covered breasts out of this picture please?"
I don't understand, sorry... what do you mean? Are you disagreeing with me?
I was mostly annoyed with the way you misrepresented my posts, in the ways I highlighted and corrected above. Which you did do mate.
I actually apologize for my "more of the same from you" comments, those were definitely a product of exasperation unfairly aimed.
I actually don't agree with that, lol, I read it wrong. I agree with it in part. :)
I fail to see how answering that question has any value here. And I can't see your images.
It's not though. Every single person in media is an object to some extent.
For there to be genuine objectification, there needs to be some sort of act or behavior that is questionable, patterned and identifiable. Showing a torso of a female in normal casual clothing does not rise to that level.
There is no behavior that is wrong here.
What "one"? You made a post about the thumbnail. I responded about the thumbnail. You called me disingenuous. Now you're saying one is about the thumbnail the other is about the video.
I don't think anyone here is saying this doesn't exist, I mean, people posting boobies in thumbnail is the oldest trick in the book to get clicks. Remember when Reply Girls were a thing on Youtube? But like you said, trying to say that THIS particular person is objectifying her body, and thus contributing to others objectifying women, doesn't check out. She's not doing anything that most people would consider objectification and it seems like what would fix this is to just show everything above her chin, which is goofy as hell.
We have consensus, though. People agree the industry has a problem. There is just disagreement on this specific case. Because of that, I don't get the uproar honestly.
Women and men try to look appealing when they work in the entertainment field? Sex appeal sells? Some people are horny trolls no matter the age? Teenagers talk about sex a lot? YouTube thumbnails are cringe?
I'm not bashing anyone's looks but suggesting it's objectifying because companies hire good looking people to sell product is kind of silly.
Telling someone to purposely dress "sexy" and to show body parts wouldn't be ok but if your in that sort of venue and ok doing that we're not talking about IGN anymore. Some people choose to use their looks to further them in a career field... that's ok too.
This kind of reeks of, she's pretty and likes to accentuate herself so it has to be for the benefit of males. Women can enjoy looking how they want to look purely for themselves.
I'm not bashing anyone's looks but suggesting it's objectifying because companies hire good looking people to sell product is kind of silly.
Telling someone to purposely dress "sexy" and to show body parts wouldn't be ok but if your in that sort of venue and ok doing that we're not talking about IGN anymore. Some people choose to use their looks to further them in a career field... that's ok too.
This kind of reeks of, she's pretty and likes to accentuate herself so it has to be for the benefit of males. Women can enjoy looking how they want to look purely for themselves.
The majority of your points can be addressed by a cursory glance at material covering the "male gaze"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_gaze
The thumbnails have the upper half of her body (again, in normal clothes) in some normal, some silly poses. Examples have been shown in this thread that the same is true with videos starring men. And as someone else mentioned, she is a producer on these videos, so she has some say in the thumbnails. Almost all of them seem like she knowingly posed for them.
From what we know, it's HER choice. This is not the same situation where she's some invented fictional character that some dude decided should wear skimpy clothes. (She's not even wearing skimpy clothes!) She is a human with free will and agency in this situation.
If she is being pressured to wear things or pose in ways that she is not comfortable with, that's a different story. But we have no evidence of that. In fact, just by a cursory glance of her Instagram, I would have to guess that idea is completely unsubstantiated in any way.
Yeah, none of those were taking out of context. Both of those replies where from people talking specifically about the thumbnails and not what she's wearing in the actual video.
The two quotes, yes. One is about her choice of what she wants to wear, which is entirely up to her and should be. The other is about how the industry has a huge issue with sexism, especially kn terms of marketing, so extra care needs to be taken.
This can be done without encroaching on individual agency.
There is no behaviour that is wrong here, but the industry does have a huge problem with marketing in terms of sexism. So yeh, it should be considered.
I don't feel like I'm losing. :)
The industry has a HUGE problem with marketing in terms of objectification and sexism etc... so yes, we need to take more care in certain instances while it's an issue.
We can consider this without removing body positivity and individual agency.
Yes, moderating the thumbnails is not censorship, it's taking responsibility in an industry that is rife with subjectification and trying to avoid ways in which the marketing like this can perpetuate the negative stuff.
They're taken out of context, two sentences for two different things. I can understand how you think it's "lol" worthy at a glance, but as I explained one was about her choice to wear what she wants and the other was about the marketing ie the thumbnails...
So please, read the thread in future. :)
Women do too. Some women ITT, and my girlfriend who I am showing the thread to now, and her roommate.
So please, stop that
(unless I read you wrong?)
Did you poll all women on this? Including the subject of the videos in question? Not being facetious, but it seems you think women are a monolith here.
Exactly this. I have no doubt there are YouTube channels and thumbnails that objectify women for promotion. I just don't think that's what's happening here.
In fact, I used to work for a company that made these exact kind of short "news" videos starring a host in front of a green screen. We used men and women as hosts. No one was telling the women what to wear, to dress more "sexy," to show skin, to pose in provocative ways, anything like that. Anything the women hosts did or wore was their choice. Do those women care about their image? Of course. Do they want to look stylish and attractive? Yes. Did they think their job was on the line if they wore a t-shirt instead of a low-cut top one day? Not at all. From what I understand of this IGN situation, it seems very similar.
Again, I'm sure there are situations where women ARE being pressured to wear things or do things they don't want to do out of fear or whatever else. I don't think this is a case of that.
This isn't sexism at all though. It's a woman wearing what she wants to wear in a video about video games. Who the fuck are you to tell her otherwise?
Aside from that fact, the thumbnails are so tame and not sexualized that someone claiming there is something there is someone who wants to find something offensive in everything, or a complete horn dog who can't look at a woman with out getting excited. It's completely absurd.
The video exists in the industry where these issues are prominent and ongoing.
I'm not in any way offended by the thumbnails, and in a world where this imbalance didn't exist I wouldn't even feel the need to comment on them at all.
Putting the host in the thumbnail is completely unnecessary. IGN doesn't do it for most of their other video thumbnails, even its podcasts where the cast of the episode greatly affects the quality and content of the episode. I follow other "gaming news" channels that are hosted by attractive women who don't even show the host in the thumbnails. Other channels, like Linus Tech Tips, show the host from mid chest up or even just his head.
One could make the argument that the reason why the style for Daily Fix thumbnails shows the host from waist up while the style for most other video thumbnails does not is that Daily Fix hosts tend to be attractive young women.
One could make the argument that the reason why the style for Daily Fix thumbnails shows the host from waist up while the style for most other video thumbnails does not is that Daily Fix hosts tend to be attractive young women.
The thread is about the marketing, the thumbnails, and how this issue is rife in the industry in general (ie: sexism and objectification of women, in all areas of the gamaing industry)
It is not about her choice of clothes specifically, and there are VERY few people ITT who have even shown the slightest inkling they have an issue with her clothes.
Unless you can point out actual puritanical posts, you really do need to read before you post.
She absolutely can. What is your point?
I think this may just be because IGN has their hosts do wacky poses for the show. It's hard for me to say if she's being objectified when we have no idea how she feels about this.
Some other thumbnails -
These videos, a normal woman dressing in a completely normal way that she chooses, a way that many women her age dress, talking about video games in a completely normal way, is actually helping far more than it is hurting.
I think you are conflating multiple issues here that don't necessarily need to be conflated. It is absolutely a problem that women who work in the industry get harassed. It's a problem that many women characters in games act or dress in ways that are objectifying. But neither of those things should have any bearing on what Sydnee herself chooses to wear on or off camera.
Like, do you realize how crazy that is? Saying because some people get harassed that IGN or whoever should assert more dominance over what a woman host gets to wear?
And you keep ignoring the fact that SHE IS A PRODUCER and takes part in decisions about how her image is used.
The fact that she is a producer on the show somehow excuses any claims of sexualization within this argument if false. She works for IGN, and as you yourself agreed, the show has a documented history with issues of sexual harassment in the workplace. She would be simply participating in this objectification systemically by making a conscious decision to participate in their practices.
To your second point your attempting to excise the commercialization aspect of IGNs objectification, with examples such as, and I'm paraphrasing, "can't females wear what they want, espically when there out and about on the streets?"
These are two very distinct dichotomies. Yes, women have the liberty to wear what they want, even if it may be revealing. But, the fact that she is wearing a negligee on one image, partial breast exposed in another, within the greater context of profiting off of these sexualized images is what makes this objectification clear in my opinion. To your point, it is the commercial aspect given within the larger history and context of sexual harassment within IGN, and other generally agreeded upon acts of sexualization such as Jessica Chobot licking game systems on the show, that makes this a case for objectification.
So let's keep a industry infantilized by proposing self censorship? I see why you're bringing the context in, but I think it's bad prescription.
I don't think women are a monolith. I think men are confused that they're not here to make decisions about what is or isn't sexist.
I rehosted it for you.
Do you think she should crop the images where some of her bare chest is showing or is it that she needs to simply crop her body from the neck down, full stop?
You realize all of those thumbnails are for the Daily Fix, right? You're not making a counterargument here.
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