Aloy vs Kassandra

BrassDragon · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy's arc is far more interesting and heroic; she has to check her assumptions about who she is and what her destiny is several times during the game. Despite fate kicking her in the teeth from the moment she was born and several times more during the game, she continues to fight for what is right and see the good in humanity (despite being forced to confront and consider the absolute worst of it.) Her heroism is based on perseverance and selflessness.

Kassandra is simply destined for greatness from the word go and everything you discover after confirms that she's a walking legend. Her heroism is based on might and self-centeredness (which fits the Greek mythology very well, so it's not a criticism.)

Now, having said that, I like the animation and the voice acting better in Kassandra and she's a delight to play so I can see why people would prefer her if you don't think too hard about what she's doing.

Blade Wolf · Oct 13, 2018

Neither, 2B.

sredgrin · Oct 13, 2018

I do think Aloy is a bit let down by the stiff way the game plays out in a lot of the conversation scenes.

Dandy · Oct 13, 2018

I haven't played Horizon... But Kassandra doesn't have a mullet, so she wins.

aevanhoe · Oct 13, 2018

Shark said:
Appreciate you expanding on it. Usually I don't get replies on stuff like this.

I feel like Aloy has some of the strongest motivation of anyone. She's in a deeply religious, rigid society and as soon as she is presented with evidence that her world isn't as it seems, she doesn't bury her head in the sand, she becomes a skeptic and throws herself in extreme danger to find out the truth. Considering we live in a time where anything flying in the face of 'tradition' or 'religion' is often met with doubling down and anger, I really respect her for doing what she does when confronted with a harsh reality.

I'd like to see both be vulnerable or being able to let their guard down more in the future. Romance doesn't really fit with HZD's plot and Odyssey often uses sex more for laughs than anything deeper.

If there is ever proof we need more female protagonists its that there are so few, they get needlessly compared and one or both get torn down in the process. It is pretty clear both have resonated with people for a variety of reasons. Threads like these always trend towards negativity and divisiveness. Again, cheers for the reply.

Couldn't agree more. Aloy's fight for reason in a rigid religious world is why she's so important to me. Her sarcasm is why I love her, though.

I find it scary that if a female character responds in such a way she is considered an unlikable character, while her male equivalent is considered cool. I see this in real life too, women that have sassy, sarcastic responses and stand up against prejudice (especially against the less obvious, more subtle and more devious prejudice and tradition that subtly - or directly - enforces "preset roles" in society) - are often deemed as frustrated b&$@es and not the brave, intelligent persons they are. I always loved this type of women - with strong opinions and snarky comments - and ended up marrying one :)

Aloy is possibly one of the best characters in gaming for me.

bllymcixi · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy.

CrayToes · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy has the personality of a brick.

BrassDragon · Oct 13, 2018

aevanhoe said:
Couldn't agree more. Aloy's fight for reason in a rigid religious world is why she's so important to me. Her sarcasm is why I love her, though.

I find it scary that if a female character responds in such a way she is considered an unlikable character, while her male equivalent is considered cool. I see this in real life too, women that have sassy, sarcastic responses and stand up against prejudice (especially against the less obvious, more subtle and more devious prejudice and tradition that subtly - or directly - enforces "preset roles" in society) - are often deemed as frustrated b&$@es and not the brave, intelligent persons they are. I always loved this type of women - with strong opinions and snarky comments - and ended up marrying one :)

Aloy is possibly one of the best characters in gaming for me.

I'm sympathetic to this argument but is this really a problem with gaming characters right now? The most beloved female heroes (granted, we don't have a wide selection to choose from) seem to have plenty of sass (Faith, Femshep, Chloe+Nadine, Ellie and Avelline de Grandpré come to mind.) The one heroine who has recently gotten a lot of flak for her portrayal is rebooted Lara Croft but it seems to me that has more to do with her lack of self-awareness rather than non-conformity to gender roles.

texhnolyze · Oct 13, 2018

Angie22 said:
I really like both.
Btw OP, not having a Poll in this thread is a fail.

I have a feeling that polls would somehow discourage the discussions in a thread. Because people would just vote and leave without saying anything.

sredgrin · Oct 13, 2018

aevanhoe said:
Couldn't agree more. Aloy's fight for reason in a rigid religious world is why she's so important to me. Her sarcasm is why I love her, though.

I find it scary that if a female character responds in such a way she is considered an unlikable character, while her male equivalent is considered cool. I see this in real life too, women that have sassy, sarcastic responses and stand up against prejudice (especially against the less obvious, more subtle and more devious prejudice and tradition that subtly - or directly - enforces "preset roles" in society) - are often deemed as frustrated b&$@es and not the brave, intelligent persons they are. I always loved this type of women - with strong opinions and snarky comments - and ended up marrying one :)

Aloy is possibly one of the best characters in gaming for me.

I don't think people dislike her because she's sassy or sarcastic. Kassandra is sassy and sarcastic. I think they just don't find her all that entertaining in her sarcasm. It's certainly very muted. Like someone posted that "best lines" video earlier, and there's like 1 chuckle worth moment in the first minute and a lot of frankly just bad stuff that does the game no favors. If anything I think people want her to have more of the characterstics you're talking about. They don't always shine through.

Couscous · Oct 13, 2018

I haven't played Odyssey yet, but Kassandra has ho be incredibly boring to be worse than Aloy. Aloy never has a cool reaction and she never becomes extremely angry or happy. Her also being sarcastic in a lot of cases without being actially funny is annoying. She is just dull imo.

ResetGreyWolf · Oct 13, 2018

Kassandra is way better. I love Horizon Zero Dawn but the characters are terrible. Aloy is boring, mundane, weak, and the character growth that seemed promised at the start of the game didn't deliver. Kassandra is a stronger character in virtually every regard imo

Majora85 · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy's personality is a flat line. She is rarely particularly moved, upset, angry or happy at anyone or anything. She reacts to discovering insane, unknowable truths about the world's past, secrets practically no-one else on the planet is aware of or could possibly envisage, with all the sense of awe, surprise and wonder of someone reading a new bus timetable.

Despite her ostensibly snarky and mildly rebellious persona she is remarkably compliant and essentially just does what everyone around her wants her to do when they want it. She's a teenager kicking up a half-hearted fuss about cleaning her room before relenting and doing it in a sulk anyway.

The bar for female characters in gaming is set so low that someone who isn't sexualised, makes the occasional snarky quip and exhibits next to no emotion is held up as some wonder of writing. Still, she's hardly alone in being a drab dullard in Horizon. Practically every NPC in the game is a dreary mannequin spewing out paragraphs of dry exposition.

Much · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy. :)

She's far more interesting and has one of the better written stories this generation.

People always do this. A protagonist goes through a traumatic event, and they're expected to be a absolute charmer; people complain about Connor Kenway (his mother died and burned right in front of him), Aloy (orphaned right at birth and outcast for most of her life). Why are they expected to be brimming with charisma? You're kinda comparing two characters that have completely different things going on.

A lot of people also didn't play The Frozen Wilds if they're complaining about facial animation too.

RedOnePunch · Oct 13, 2018

Kassandra but Aloy is a part of a better game and story. Maybe put Kassandra in Horizon

forgiventhrice · Oct 13, 2018

Can't say till am done with Odyssey. However, Kasandra has a great personality

Raylan · Oct 13, 2018

Clearly Aloy. Better written and way more sympathetic.

Visanideth · Oct 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Kassandra, design, animation, (in cinematics), and acting, (nails those emotional moments as well as the calmer moments). No contest.

Plus, Aloy really can't match this level of badassery.

Boy does the gameplay of modern AC look terrible. Like, yikes.

Much · Oct 13, 2018

Lackless said:
Aloy has the personality of a Skyrim NPC.

Clearly did not play the game, nice one.

Visanideth · Oct 13, 2018

Alucrid said:
dunno why people keep highlighting that zack snyder wet dream sequence as the badassery in this game

Also, the guy does everything. He's boosting Kassandra here. I don't get it.

Alethiometer · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy is a personality vacuum.

HMD · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy is a character made with love and care. Kassandra is a character manufactured by focus groups and market research.

LetalisAmare · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy.

Evie>>>>>Kassandra

Stardestroyer · Oct 13, 2018

I haven't played odyssey yet, but Aloy is a reflection of the game. She, just like the player are exploring a a world that is new to them.

When you are new to a place, you don't usually know enough to be the driver of events. You usually react because everything and every reaction is new to the individual.

In the sequel I expect a far more confident and comfortable Aloy, given her experiences from the first game. Now Aloy is in on the shit that is going on, she has fought and defeat some bad stuff.

It's funny how people are unable to compare characters without tearing the other down.

Aloy and kassandra are two different characters in two different types of games. Games that demand a different type of protagonist. It would be stupid for aloy to behave like a mercenary with a bombastic personality, given aloys previous role as the village outcast who knows nothing about how world and herself, thus has to react. It reminds me of when I moved back to the US after leaving as a child. Fish out of water.

The first scene with kassandra is how getting attacked because for some reason the local crime boss knows her. The point is, not all protagonists are comparable especially in games with different themes.

Certinfy · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy was awful. Kassandra was great. Not even close.

Bundy · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy. The story around her is better and she's super cute :)

The Booktastic Bus · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy is ugly as sin.

Kassandra is classically attractive.

Kassandra > Aloy

*edit

darkslayer101 said:
we have a winner

although Kass is definitely up there.

Evie is the best.

requiem · Oct 13, 2018

Lackless said:
Aloy has the personality of a Skyrim NPC.

You know, I truly love Horizon, but this is hilariously accurate.

HellofaMouse · Oct 13, 2018

as far as i can tell, both are barely more interesting than drying paint.

Sirank · Oct 13, 2018

I haven't played Horizon yet so I can't compare Aloy but I do love Kassandra. One of my favorite protagonists in a long time.

Visanideth said:
Boy does the gameplay of modern AC look terrible. Like, yikes.

It's like 1000x better than the old AC games IMO.

SurrenderDorothy · Oct 13, 2018

Visanideth said:
Boy does the gameplay of modern AC look terrible. Like, yikes.

Absolute shite, they were heading in a good direction with Unity, if only they perfected it.
I loved Origins though, for some reason Odyssey looks like shit to me.

Acquiescence · Oct 13, 2018

I've played Horizon but not Odyssey. My standard response would be that Kassandra is the better character, given the fact that Aloy has all the personality of a urine-soaked sponge and is the worst thing in an otherwise good game, but this is Ubisoft we're talking about here. No other company has mastered the art of inserting the most bland and forgettable protagonists into their own games quite like Ubisoft.

DangerMouse · Oct 13, 2018

aevanhoe said:
Also, one of the best lines in gaming: when Aloy defeats some machines near a gate, the gate's guards start praising "the Sun". Aloy says (to herself) something like: "yeah, it wasn't the sun getting its ass kicked down here" :)

Loved that lol.

DangerMouse · Oct 13, 2018

Much118 said:
Aloy. :)

She's far more interesting and has one of the better written stories this generation.

People always do this. A protagonist goes through a traumatic event, and they're expected to be a absolute charmer; people complain about Connor Kenway (his mother died and burned right in front of him), Aloy (orphaned right at birth and outcast for most of her life). Why are they expected to be brimming with charisma? You're kinda comparing two characters that have completely different things going on.

A lot of people also didn't play The Frozen Wilds if they're complaining about facial animation too.

Yeah. Really nice showcase of all the improvements already in works for Decima from Guerrilla and KojiPro.

nelsonroyale said:
In terms of characters and writing, haven't played Odyssey yet, but Aloy was a pretty decent protag, in the Nausicaa mould. In terms of visual design, they are both good, but graphically Alloy looks quite a lot better.

Agreed, I got some really nice Nausicaa vibes from her too.
Makes sense too, she's totally her own character but I also remember it was cited a long while ago that Ghibli's Nausicaa and Mononoke were among Guerilla's many sources of inspirations.

Shark said:
I feel like Aloy has some of the strongest motivation of anyone. She's in a deeply religious, rigid society and as soon as she is presented with evidence that her world isn't as it seems, she doesn't bury her head in the sand, she becomes a skeptic and throws herself in extreme danger to find out the truth. Considering we live in a time where anything flying in the face of 'tradition' or 'religion' is often met with doubling down and anger, I really respect her for doing what she does when confronted with a harsh reality.

Yeah, I loved this.

Looking forward to playing Odyssey later and Kassandra, probably during one of the first holiday sales due to being overloaded with games.

Yautja_Warrior · Oct 13, 2018

Aloy for me, she was awesome but Kassandra is pretty cool though.

blackmass · Oct 13, 2018

Played none of the games, but my vote goes to Kassandra. Ubisoft has good writers.

Lackless · Oct 13, 2018

Much118 said:
Clearly did not play the game, nice one.

I 100% did play the game. I could say that you didn't play the game based off zero evidence to convince myself that I'm right but that would be pretty silly.

spidye · Oct 13, 2018

Didn't play ac but aloy was so boring and badly written that I couldn't force myself through horizon.

Shame since the game looked good though

Much · Oct 13, 2018

Lackless said:
I 100% did play the game. I could say that you didn't play the game based off zero evidence to convince myself that I'm right but that would be pretty silly.

Right. Just don't make an ill-comparison that holds no merit. You can say she is short of personality, just don't even try to compare a lead character to that of a Skyrim NPC, lol.

Joeyro · Oct 13, 2018

Much118 said:
Aloy. :)

She's far more interesting and has one of the better written stories this generation.

People always do this. A protagonist goes through a traumatic event, and they're expected to be a absolute charmer; people complain about Connor Kenway (his mother died and burned right in front of him), Aloy (orphaned right at birth and outcast for most of her life). Why are they expected to be brimming with charisma? You're kinda comparing two characters that have completely different things going on.

A lot of people also didn't play The Frozen Wilds if they're complaining about facial animation too.

Aloy is not an interesting character, but she is a realistic portrayal of a person that went through an isolated childhood filed with many traumatic events. I do agree that people expect everyone to be a charismatic wise cracking characters, even if it doesn't fit their character arc whatsoever.

I'm excited to see her grow in the sequel.

Rapon Tran · Oct 13, 2018

Sorry, the ending of HZD is what truly showing the inside of her. Overall, the critic said it all: She is a very good character.
And I also prefer Aloy over Kas (Kas is great).

Verruckt93 · Oct 13, 2018

I haven't played Odyssey yet but i think Aloy is much better than Kassandra

Crossing Eden · Oct 13, 2018

Visanideth said:
Boy does the gameplay of modern AC look terrible. Like, yikes.

Almost like playing a game is more important than watching.

mindsale · Oct 13, 2018

Kassandra for sure. She's more nuanced, less insecure, and in control of her sexual identity (even if the romance options aren't exactly subtle). She's not written like some young adult protagonist.

That said, pretty much everything else in the game is written poorly, while the reverse of Horizon is true.

Visanideth · Oct 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
Almost like playing a game is more important than watching.

Fair, but in every video I watch the combat looks like some clunky version of The Witcher 3 ported to mobile. I'm really, really not one to make hasty judgement and I believe in playing first and judging later, but this is remarkably terrible in video form. I'll try the game eventually but I can't say I'm eager to.

Crossing Eden · Oct 13, 2018

HMD said:
Aloy is a character made with love and care. Kassandra is a character manufactured by focus groups and market research.

This is an absurdly stupid hot take
considering who the lead writer of Odyssey is.

Visanideth said:
Fair, but in every video I watch the combat looks like some clunky version of The Witcher 3 ported to mobile. I'm really, really not one to make hasty judgement and I believe in playing first and judging later, but this is remarkably terrible in video form. I'll try the game eventually but I can't say I'm eager to.

Even Origins played way better than the witcher 3. Odyssey improved that foundation by a large degree.

Grisby · Oct 13, 2018

Arta said:
At first glance you might think so, but Aloy's beaten "The Stacker Of Corpses" as well as giant robot dinosaurs.

You have a point. Somehow I forgot about the giant robot dinosaurs and her superior bow handling gameplay.

Starlatine · Oct 13, 2018

Grisby said:
her superior bow handling gameplay.

You might want to take a harder look on the hilariously overpowered stuff you can do with a bow in Odyssey

aevanhoe · Oct 13, 2018

Crossing Eden said:
This is an absurdly stupid hot take
considering who the lead writer of Odyssey is.

Oh? Who's the lead writer? (Sincere question)

Crossing Eden · Oct 13, 2018

aevanhoe said:
Oh? Who's the lead writer? (Sincere question)

Melissa McCaubrey
Enlightening read. Kassandra very likely wouldn't be the way she is without Melissa's input and direction.

Aloy vs Kassandra

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