Does this make aliens an afterthought? Does it mean that any feature that doesn't get added first is an afterthought? It doesn't really make sense to me to apply this to a game that's still deep in development
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I am disappointed by the lack of diversity depicted in Squadron 42
- Thread starter Vela
- Start date
Yeah, this thread is a mess.
I can't believe people learn about how society works from watching highly exaggerated satire. No wonder things are so fucked up.
A situation having the potential to be worse isn't exactly a great defence of it being bad.
This is like seeing a guy get punched in the face in the street and saying "well, hey, a least it's just a punch in the face. Other people have been shot.
Plus, there's plenty of people not punching him in the face, it's just that the guy who's interacting with him the most is punching him in the face."
(Ok the analogy breaks down in the latter half but the image was too funny to not include.)
Literally anything is better than nothing. Better than nothing, however, isn't good enough.
It's like,
In most games, I'm playing as a white male.
Most gaming journalism comes from the perspective of white males.
Most fans of this industry seem to be white males.
Most game makers seem to be white males.
Things we all see on a daily basis and we feel the effects of it as minorities in this industry.
But whenever you criticize the industry for it, suddenly we're treating them as if it's a crime to be white and we're the racist for talking about it. And it's frustrating.
Aliens are an afterthought, and I don't think anyone is offended about that fact.
But women?
I think that is slated for patch 3.4 / the next patch (3.3 is out in a preliminary stage atm).
I'm also confused by white people throwing Black Panther in our face as an example of "reverse racism", in a gaming thread of all places. How upset were you in February/March this year?
If you don't actually know people who are different from you in real life, where else are you going to get your glimpses into the wider world?
(Hence the need for proper diversity in media.)
Jesus why are people like OP is asking for the game to be cancelled ? I think it's worthwhile to have those kind of discussions and wonder why a game with a huge budget like that can't be bothered to have a more diverse main cast.
If your first reaction is defending the game, you should really take a hard look at yourself and wonder why you're thinking that way.
If your first reaction is defending the game, you should really take a hard look at yourself and wonder why you're thinking that way.
Not until the end of the year.
They were orginially scheduled to be in game earlier. They said they wanted the male rig to be finished (and they've redone it a good 6 or 7 times already). And by then, they have made many clothes, armors and animations for the males that they need to adapt for the female rig and that obviously takes time.
I see, I just don't understand why they didn't do the male and female rigs in a similar timeframe.
This is why I appreciate CDPR for all they've currently doing.
Just saw your post. Thanks for the information guys.
I watched their tech talks with all the reskinning, pont tail rigs they had to set up, VOIP/FOIP and the gene splicing. So I have an interest in all the tech and stuff they are creating and adapting for this. it's very great to see all of the work they have put into this.
Righ? Dude said "this white guy was born in South Africa" like that was actually supposed to mean something.
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! This fucking message board, man. :D
Oh boy. This hyperbole is dangerous thinking. I honestly believe overreactions like this push people from the center to the right. Excluding people of color from your video game does not make you deeply racist nor does it promote white supremacy.
It kills me because it was one movie. Folks be acting like the movie industry is constantly swimming in mostly black casts.
But again, the game isn't even done. Is every feature they added since the first version they showed an afterthought?
They explained it a while years back as them wanting to perfect the motion set on one body type and then taking the lessons learned there to the other body type since male and female hip types change locomotion visuals. So instead of the work load for each research paradigm being for two body types and recompiling both each time. The game is different than most because your first person model is the same as your third person model. WHich is why they could show off footage of female NPCs, but it is different technical requirements for player controlled models.
That is how they explained it. They have had the female model visually ready for a a good time now though, but the game's base animation system has been r and d for years.
Got ya, this is good to know. I often tried to explain to my friends why Destiny isn't playable in third person even when they have the models for both perspectives. But I never could find the right words.
This is a good explanation for the women part.
This picture works really well in this context, lol.
Anyway, Italians are almost unanimously considered white (you, 4chan and Matt Groening being the exceptions).
Not even tanned Sicilians look this dark, and they are very easily distinguishable from, say, Northern Africans or Middle Easterns.
It isn't, though? It speaks to their development priorities, and demonstrates just how far down that list of priorities including women is.
...
Which, when combined with this shite trailer, says a whole fucking bunch.
I'm trying to imagine the reaction if women were the first playable characters, and men were going to be put in at some later date because the animation rigging is different and it takes time.
Edit: Also, the lack of diversity is pretty stark, I was expecting one of the pilots was going to be a POC at aproximately 2:28, but nope, two white guys.
Edit: Also, the lack of diversity is pretty stark, I was expecting one of the pilots was going to be a POC at aproximately 2:28, but nope, two white guys.
Are you comparing aliens and women
I'm sure every male gamer out there would be perfectly fine with this and there would be no complaint. Right?
I'm cool with the explanation, I'm not fine with the priorities. I would prefer them to have done them both at the same time. Women are far down the list of priorities if they are skipping 3.3 to being sorted out in 3.4
That trailer isn't all that especially considering what OP brings to light but of course it got downplayed.
I'm comparing different character models. Neither of which is an afterthought when the game isn't even done.
I think it's important to remember that the Italians were not considered as such not all that long ago, and only got a foot in the door to bolster voting numbers and to negate political solidarity with other minorities. It's also important to understand, in these kinds of discussions and the wider world at large, that "whiteness" is less of a meaningful or even arbitrary ethnic identifier and more of a sociopolitical concept born for the sake of concentration of power and cultural assimilation, and it is intellectually dishonest to dismiss that if you ever find yourself arguing that you don't see the problem with this kind of casting in a world that has literally never reflected the narrative of white agency, a world that is now catching on to that illusion.
Kevin Spacey in CoD Advanced warfare? has he won an Oscar?
See above: https://www.resetera.com/posts/13817695/
They've had 7 years and 200 million dollars yet women are so far still down their priorities. I'm sorry but that's just sad.
I agree. I'm Hispanic and don't have a problem with a majority white cast.
OP
OP
This is the dumbest thing. It's such a power move and attempt at silencing to say stuff like "calling out racism just turns people into even bigger racists". It blames those who are trying to pointing out a problem rather than the problem itself
And the explanation for it is here. https://www.resetera.com/posts/13817482
It would be dumb to do the same work twice
I think it is fair to mention that the lead character of this cinematic story is the player, performed and voiced by not very famous South African actor Ian Duncan. It maybe nice for the Southern African people to see one from their national team represented among the stars.
The female voice has not been yet announced.
So 80 percent of the time on screen there is a character created by you and shaped by your selections in the story which differs greatly from the regular movie experience.
As an English-language production the lead role was always going to people fluent in English, ruling out many ethnicities and subcultures never before seen on English media such as Savonians. Despite there being in example Savonian GM Jarmo Kekäläinen in the NHL I have never seem anyone in Northern America describe the Savonian culture as anything else than just 'Finnish'.
The female voice has not been yet announced.
So 80 percent of the time on screen there is a character created by you and shaped by your selections in the story which differs greatly from the regular movie experience.
As an English-language production the lead role was always going to people fluent in English, ruling out many ethnicities and subcultures never before seen on English media such as Savonians. Despite there being in example Savonian GM Jarmo Kekäläinen in the NHL I have never seem anyone in Northern America describe the Savonian culture as anything else than just 'Finnish'.
- I do not know if Squadron 42 departs from this with characters who have subcultures written into them.
Reminder of those fake twitter posts claiming white people were being attacked when they went to see the movie.
So many examples of this "black people are the real racists" at varying levels.
Watch the exact same thing happen with the Hispanic population too.
I'm just sitting here waiting patiently on it.
"You forgive us for that whole "rapist" and "wall" thing, right? That's not who we really are."
I mean, there are plenty of British actors of color who have no issue with sci-fi. Idris Elba. Lenny James. Dev Patel. John Boyega. David Oyelowo. Gugu Mbatha-Raw. Etc etc.
I can't remember any male outrage over the unveiling of that crappy last Mass Effect game tbh (except over the actual game quality later on).
People are just dyyyyying to point out the lack of a meaningful diverse ethnic cast in whatever is released these days.
Can't open a thread on Era or read a page on kotaku without someone ranting on about diversity.
I get it and I agree!
But the point has clearly been made and games will have to adapt over time.
Just don't expect developers to redo their entire casting and voice overs which were probably done a while ago, before there was a more widespread attention to the lack of diversity in video games.
Can't open a thread on Era or read a page on kotaku without someone ranting on about diversity.
I get it and I agree!
But the point has clearly been made and games will have to adapt over time.
Just don't expect developers to redo their entire casting and voice overs which were probably done a while ago, before there was a more widespread attention to the lack of diversity in video games.
It might be a new song but it's always the same old dance.
RE: The "who is white and who isn't" discussion - there's a divide between Americans and Europeans. In Europe, the dividing lines are drawn around whether you're of European heritage, not really whether you're 'white' or not - that's more of an American thing. So to many Europeans, this distinction between who and who isn't white doesn't really make much sense, because it's a very arbitrary line to draw ultimately. Why is a French person from the South of France white but not a Spanish person? Why are Austrian people white but not Italians? They're practically right next to each other.
It's maybe easier to draw these lines in America, but not so much in Europe, where these populations actually come from.
(FWIW, 'white' is obviously used in Europe and in many ways similar to as it is in America, but there are some differences and I think that's where some confusion comes from in discussions on this between Americans and Europeans sometimes).
It's maybe easier to draw these lines in America, but not so much in Europe, where these populations actually come from.
(FWIW, 'white' is obviously used in Europe and in many ways similar to as it is in America, but there are some differences and I think that's where some confusion comes from in discussions on this between Americans and Europeans sometimes).
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You're sending mixed messages here. You say that you understand and agree that there is a lack of diversity in video games that needs to be address but at the same time you have this attitude of "shut up about it already."
That may be as well be the most correct technical definition of "whiteness" but is it really how most people use the word? From looking at the American side of the internet every day(since i'm actually Italian and can't speak about actual everyday life in America) the impression I've got is that most people do indeed use whiteness more as a meaningful and arbitrary ethnic identifier(very often when discussing sociopolitical issues to be fair) more than anything else.
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OP
OP
I don't know how old you are, but these discussions have been present within studios, in public and online the last 20 years. Saying "the point has been made" and that developers will pick up on it and that we just all have to be quiet and sit and wait is a silencing tactic. As long as developers keep making whites-only games, they will continue to be criticized for the cultural reproduction of racism in Western societies.
Isn't this being done in the UK with predominately English speaking actors? I take the point about the European stuff but in the UK I would imagine the lines would mirror closely to US except you add more Asians into the mix as well when talking about diversity.
I'm not sure what you're asking, I didn't make a comment on the actual production of the game or the actors in it. I was commenting on a discussion earlier in the thread where people couldn't agree on which populations are white and which aren't.