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Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
The 3/2 body is pretty unimpressive and very often has nothing to munch on if you're dropping it on Turn 3.
It's not that below rate, it attacks at 4/3 which is identical to what Jadelight Ranger attacks as, and Jadelight is seeing heavy play. And it should have something to eat, it's probably being played in the Explore/Golgari deck most of all as a mirror breaker.

I'm not saying it should be 4-of'd or anything, but I think you could fit 1 or 2 in most Golgari decks.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Eating shit from a graveyard early on is becoming quite relevant with three large scale graveyard mechanics going around. If I played green atm I would run it, at the very least in the sideboard.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,967
716
Y'all ever just get a feeling about a card?

What do you think the price of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy will look like in a year?

Sometimes I wonder if I should be buying one a paycheck.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
It's not that below rate, it attacks at 4/3 which is identical to what Jadelight Ranger attacks as, and Jadelight is seeing heavy play. And it should have something to eat, it's probably being played in the Explore/Golgari deck most of all as a mirror breaker.

I'm not saying it should be 4-of'd or anything, but I think you could fit 1 or 2 in most Golgari decks.

It only sometimes attacks as a 4/3, it will always block as a 3/2. Against an aggressive deck it will die to a shock. Can't attack or block profitably with a chainwhirler on board.

I've played Deathgorge Scavenger a fair bit and I was always unimpressed with it in the main board and felt that the bigger butt on Brontodon was generally better than the abilities on Deathgorge Scavenger in the aggressive matchups.

It's decent graveyard hate if you are in need of that sort of thing and it might become more popular as Golgari rises, but I wouldn't consider it all that underplayed.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
Hardened Scales is real for Modern now, right? Thinking of getting the rest of the cards for it. It seems like fun, I love playing Walking Ballista decks, and I'm most of the way there with having Affinity already.
 
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Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
It only sometimes attacks as a 4/3, it will always block as a 3/2. Against an aggressive deck it will die to a shock. Can't attack or block profitably with a chainwhirler on board.

I've played Deathgorge Scavenger a fair bit and I was always unimpressed with it in the main board and felt that the bigger butt on Brontodon was generally better than the abilities on Deathgorge Scavenger in the aggressive matchups.

It's decent graveyard hate if you are in need of that sort of thing and it might become more popular as Golgari rises, but I wouldn't consider it all that underplayed.
Aggressive decks just get bodied by Golgari anyways, especially if they have Wildgrowth Walker.

The problem is that Standard graveyard hate in general is kind of bad because most of it doesn't do anything else and if they're playing Vraska and Vivien it doesn't matter if you shut off the yard, but Scavenger does a lot of things at once and doesn't punish your own yard. I don't really know what Brontodon is even hitting right now. Honestly think Control is largely just a boogeyman right now, it's not actually particularly great at the moment. I think it gets overrated because people don't like having stuff countered.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,771
Don't forget that Wizards chooses which 5-0 lists to feature deliberately. We have no data on what the conversion rate for Risk Factor decks actually is.
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
Don't forget that Wizards chooses which 5-0 lists to feature deliberately. We have no data on what the conversion rate for Risk Factor decks actually is.
I haven't ever lost to it so obviously it's bad

No but seriously I haven't ever lost to it. I just pick the one least likely to make me lose. Red has a pretty horrible matchup against Golgari, and really against tokens too (the two decks I have on Arena), so by the time they're spending 3 mana on Risk Factor I basically don't care what they're doing because they generally have failed to get more than a couple of points of damage in because Golgari doesn't race anyone and aggressively trades off basically everything. It's a horrible deal to spend a card answering a 2/2 from History when you're playing tokens and resolving March for basically any number generally just wins the game.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,123
Running this in Arena. Haven't played with paper since Khans, so it's nice to play again:

White x19
2 Ajani's Welcome
3 Healer's Hawk
4 Leonin Vanguard
4 Ajani's Pridemate
4 Bishop's Soldier
2 Leonin Warleader

Black x3
3 Nightmare's Thirst

Green x2
2 Titanic Growth

Multicolor x10
2 Assassin's Trophy
2 Pitiless Gorgon
4 Ochran Assassin
2 Izoni, Thousand-Eyed

Artifact x2
2 Navigator's Compass

Land x24
8 Plains
5 Forest
5 Swamp
2 Temple Garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Woodland Cemetery
 
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Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
Huh, was looking at decklists, and... did Nullhide Ferox push Carnage Tyrant out of mono-green? (Well, it looks like "mono-green" involves a splash for black for Assassin's Trophy nowadays, though). I guess it makes sense in that it's cheaper, and I suppose the 1 extra power, trample, and lack of drawback just can't compete with how quick Ferox can be in comparison. Still, kind of figured they both were being used, but apparently not.
 

Deleted member 16849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,167
61c3tTm.png


Some of the buys i'm glad i jumped on. I'm still salty i didn't buy Taferi when they where like $12 each. I'm closely watching Mox Ambers and Karn, SOU. Mox Amber is a card is currently shit but once someone works out what to do with it don't be surprised if it becomes like $50+ one day if even it takes years.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,327
I am in for $100 of Mox Amber when it hits about $5- my hope is that holiday sales/ebay around Christmas get the price that low
A constructed-legal card named "Mox" is always going to rebound
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Pro tip of the day: Experimental Frenzy is insane. Make sure it's the curve topper and go off. Extra style points if your deck is goblins.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,327
And punisher cards are always bad.

I think this might be the exception. It's so bad.

It's open-ended synergy for the rest of time- WOTC is going to print MORE legendary creatures for EDH and Planeswalkers as they are the focus of marketing- not less
The name "Mox" will give it a floor that it will never drop past, and if it ever gets unlocked- my guess is either in whatever the new format that is Ixalan and forward that springs out of MTG Arena and eventually comes to paper as the Modern replacement in a few years- it will explode
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
Drafting my cube for the first time in almost a year today. Was planned a little last minute so didn't get to make any changes, otherwise I have so many additions I want to make from Ixalan and onward. It's a powered cube (proxied of course) so the sky is the limit. Thinking on it feels like a lot of stuff that could reasonably get in there. Off the top of my head, at least want to find room for Search for Azcanta, Teferi, Chart a Course, Hostage Taker, Karn and Assassin's Trophy. Any other good cube stuff I'm not thinking of from those sets? I'm sure I could just check Cube Tutor, but discussion is fun! Maybe Risk Factor should go in too...

Also, since we only have 4 people tonight we're going to try and do a "tenchester" draft described here: https://www.channelfireball.com/home/grid-tenchester-and-cutting-a-color-from-the-cube/ Basically 36 packs of ten, but each player only gets 1 pick per pack. Should be good for seeing a good chunk of the cube even with a small number of players. Makes missing on a whole class of expected deck pieces less likely (ie not seeing any reanimation spells, or etc).
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
Gerry Thompson must be buying into his own hype because he wrote an insanely dumb response to some WOTC marketing survey
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Drafting my cube for the first time in almost a year today. Was planned a little last minute so didn't get to make any changes, otherwise I have so many additions I want to make from Ixalan and onward. It's a powered cube (proxied of course) so the sky is the limit. Thinking on it feels like a lot of stuff that could reasonably get in there. Off the top of my head, at least want to find room for Search for Azcanta, Teferi, Chart a Course, Hostage Taker, Karn and Assassin's Trophy. Any other good cube stuff I'm not thinking of from those sets? I'm sure I could just check Cube Tutor, but discussion is fun! Maybe Risk Factor should go in too...

Also, since we only have 4 people tonight we're going to try and do a "tenchester" draft described here: https://www.channelfireball.com/home/grid-tenchester-and-cutting-a-color-from-the-cube/ Basically 36 packs of ten, but each player only gets 1 pick per pack. Should be good for seeing a good chunk of the cube even with a small number of players. Makes missing on a whole class of expected deck pieces less likely (ie not seeing any reanimation spells, or etc).
Where are Abrade, Exquisite Firecraft and Forked Bolt? They're better than a lot of red cards.

Legion Warboss also deserves a look.

Also, yeah, Search For Azcanta is insane.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
Where are Abrade, Exquisite Firecraft and Forked Bolt? They're better than a lot of red cards.

Legion Warboss also deserves a look.

Also, yeah, Search For Azcanta is insane.

Oh yeah, Abrade should be in there for sure. Dunno how I missed that when I added a few Amonkhet cards. Will look at the other ones too.

I kind of screwed up when I first made this by starting with a kind of janky list that I got from some random cube online that had some super weird choices in it and printing that out. So I've been pulling it back from there and slowly changing it. And then just didn't play it for a year. That said, I am entirely unwilling to start from scratch. I never want to cut that much paper out ever again.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,966
So, floating mana has like no permenance, huh? It's never really been a particular issue that's come up for me in paper, and I've only ever played fairly casually, so people probably wouldn't be such sticklers for the fine details of the rules. But yeah, caused me a dumb loss earlier in Arena where I popped the Steamkin for the mana at what I figured was the start of the combat phase (which I didn't need to do, whoops), then declared my Chainwhirler as a blocker, and was like "okay, now I use my Shock" but didn't get a chance to play anything and was super confused. And that went and turned what would've been an advantageous board state into unrecoverable. So... guess I learned the lesson of "don't make mana until you're actively using it."
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
The mana pool empties with phase changes unless you have a specific card effect (like Kruphix) that specifies otherwise, yeah.

So while you're in your Main Phase your mana will stick around until you go to Combat, while you're in Second Main it will stick around until you go to End Phase, etc.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
So, floating mana has like no permenance, huh? It's never really been a particular issue that's come up for me in paper, and I've only ever played fairly casually, so people probably wouldn't be such sticklers for the fine details of the rules. But yeah, caused me a dumb loss earlier in Arena where I popped the Steamkin for the mana at what I figured was the start of the combat phase (which I didn't need to do, whoops), then declared my Chainwhirler as a blocker, and was like "okay, now I use my Shock" but didn't get a chance to play anything and was super confused. And that went and turned what would've been an advantageous board state into unrecoverable. So... guess I learned the lesson of "don't make mana until you're actively using it."

Yeah you lose any floating mana when phases change. Players can't respond to you adding Mana to your Mana pool so there's not much reason to add Mana to your Mana pool until you need it.
 

Yeef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,440
New York
Mana pools empty when phases AND steps change; so going from beginning of combat step to declare attackers step will empty your mana pool.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
So has everyone figured out Golgari is ridiculous yet
For the past year, people whined about Green not being good in standard.

And now we're back in value-driven midrange BG hell. Standard's a closed circle.

Ixalan was a "boring" set, especially if you aren't 14 years old and don't care about DINOSAURZ VS PIRATEZ. It was sandwiched between the most broken block this decade and the cool nostalgia set that provided more Legends for EDH than any booster set since the format existed. I wouldn't be surprised to see it underpreformed sales-wise for the Fall set
You forgot Amonkhet (although I guess that block functionally ended up being an extension of Kaladesh block).

I mostly missed Ixalan. It looks okay, but I've never been a fan of extreme tribal-focused sets. Innistrad-level tribal is nice, but I don't like the Lorwyn/Onslaught approach.
 
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Deleted member 16849

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,167
I feel a lot of people are sleeping on this card when it comes to Golgari reanimator decks.

en_vHPlgZZDEb.png


It has a lot of synergy with the following cards.

en_ZqatEeKEiU.png
en_hUxDlJZV8u.png
en_y1HuVnakef.png
en_WZsEJV4GnQ.png
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,336
Are they sleeping on it? It doesn't really seem like it does enough. Do all that work... and get a 2/2? Might as well play Dusk Legion Zealot. Play it, draw a card. Chump with it. Bring it back later, draw another card. (I'm not actually suggesting they play DLZ).
 

Yeef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,440
New York
For the past year, people whined about Green not being good in standard.

And now we're back in value-driven midrange BG hell. Standard's a closed circle.


You forgot Amonkhet (although I guess that block functionally ended up being an extension of Kaladesh block).

I mostly missed Ixalan. It looks okay, but I've never been a fan of extreme tribal-focused sets. Innistrad-level tribal is nice, but I don't like the Lorwyn/Onslaught approach.
To be fair, green was only bad in standard because the green deck was so good that they banned all its pieces.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
Even dusk zealot is better than dissenter
For vamp decks don't forget about the 1W 2/1 that makes a vamp on death
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
Are they sleeping on it? It doesn't really seem like it does enough. Do all that work... and get a 2/2? Might as well play Dusk Legion Zealot. Play it, draw a card. Chump with it. Bring it back later, draw another card. (I'm not actually suggesting they play DLZ).
I played DLZ in these decks and it was quite good sometimes. It's not as good as the explore guys who can more aggressively trade off or chip at your opponent.
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
It's a good sign that everyone is talking about Standard and everyone is talking about Arena. It feels like it's been ages since Standard has been the hot shit. SCG needs to switch back to giving a fuck about Standard.
 

Crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,093
Ravnica sets always seem to light a fire under Standard's ass. Just a function of good design/development? Flavor gets a lot of people to come out and play?
 
OP
OP
SigmasonicX

SigmasonicX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,503
Testing the Dark Waters
Nicky Drayden

An Izzet chemister makes an incredible discovery about the world . . . and herself.

* The unnamed lead is a low ranking Izzet scientist who is trudging through a sewer with a Golgari guide troll to figure out why a fatburg isn't being broken up by the crackling drakes they sent in.
* She discovers a spatial rift is granting immunity to electricity, and after getting attacked by electric eels, she goes to her boss.
* It turns out rushing up to your boss covered in sewage demanding a promotion for your discovery while being too electrocuted to explain yourself is liable to get you fired.
* She sets up her own lab in secret, worried about Dimir and Simic corporate spies and poachers (of lab hires).
* She manages to get an assistant named Tamsyn for cheap, though still more than what she can spare right now. She's great in the lab, but the lead is ready to let her go until she promises to pull strings to help her. The narration seems to imply that the lead is attracted to her.
* After they successfully make lab rats immune to electricity, and kill them for the autopsy, they move on to humanoid subjects that Tamsyn is able to gather.
* It works on them too, but they can't afford to pay the test subjects what they advertised and Tamsyn points out they can't let others poach their lab results from them.
* The lead catches her drift but hesitates to kill them. Tamsyn says that's fine, because she already poisoned them.
* The lead decides she'll get the money to pay Tamsyn, shut down the lab, hire a mind mage to erase her memory, and then move on with her life.
* She takes jobs as test subject for various Izzet experiments, which turn out well enough for her. For real money, she signs up for a Simic experiment, lying that she hadn't taken a regeneration potion in the last seven days so she wouldn't be rejected.
* The experiment goes badly, turning her into a monster, and she hides in the sewers.
* Tamsyn tracks her down there. She's actually a Dimir agent who wants to tie up loose ends.
* Somehow, the threat of the lead's work not being credited to her motivates her more than the threat to her life.
* Tamsyn attacks the lead using electric magic but the lead manages to salvage enough material from a fatburg to make a device to absorb the electricity. She throws it at Tamsyn, blowing her away, and then grabs her with her now monstrous claws.
* Except she looks and sees that the Simic experiment wore off and she's normal again. Regardless, she snaps Tamsyn's neck, killing her. It's easy for her now.

I don't think the ending worked as well as it could have, but I still liked this story.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,967
716
While I appreciate your recap as always, Ravnica and its guilds continue to be wholly uninteresting to me from a narrative standpoint. Wake me when the real story actually begins.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
I just watched Pascal Maynard playing Grixis Dragons. The Golgari matchups weren't even close. So much for that idea lol

I didn't even knew Thorn Lieutenant existed. How is that remotely a fair card? How does a control deck even kill it without getting outvalued and sinking more than two mana?
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Wraths cost how much mana now? You'd already take 6-8 damage.

Good luck countering on t2 on the draw.

Yeah I suppose you can block it. Until you can't.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,327
It's a good sign that everyone is talking about Standard and everyone is talking about Arena. It feels like it's been ages since Standard has been the hot shit. SCG needs to switch back to giving a fuck about Standard.
Yep, as much as I have issues with Arena and the long-term economy system its using, it's not something that is going to matter to anyone till the game has been out for a year or so. It's got a bunch of weird issues- the auto-mulligan forces you to design your deck around it (the way it priotitzes your 2 opening hands will lead midrange decks to generally have worse opening hands), you can't choose to draw in limited, and the auto-tapper is attrocious (I was playing Grixis Midrange, drew Nicol Bolas, Cast Nicol Bolas, went to activate him- and couldn't because the autotapper decided to tap both of my red sources instead of my basic Island to cast Bolas)- but it's early on and things will get better, and for a normal person, this is a hell of an update over MTGO. It looks good, it's super quick to play, and even if they are small, it constantly carrot-and-sticks you with rewards for playing
 
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