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Vintage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,305
Europe
I think what you are describing is simply good design, not just tone. Of course games with good design are better.

There are tons of games that have the tone match the narrative and gameplay, but are just bad games.
 

Laserplane

Member
Apr 28, 2018
85
I really agree OP. While being an amazing game, I'd say the tone of Majora's Mask is a huge reason why it holds up so well and is remembered so fondly.

Indeed, I would say the same for morrowind. I fucking love it but it has plenty of gameplay issues. the tone of "stranger in a strange land" just takes the fucking cake though
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
I think what you are describing is simply good design, not just tone. Of course games with good design are better.

There are tons of games that have the tone match the narrative and gameplay, but are just bad games.
There's also tone from gameplay, like how the audio design or how shooting the gun feels aesthetically next to the narrative itself which is felt through the design.

You can have a game with really great design and great narrative (tonally consistent narrative too) but mechanics that feel overly goofy.

I think, by accident the 3DS port of Ocarina of Time was let down in its tone because the redone animations were overly jerky. It messed with the rest of the aesthetic.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,864
People that claim to disagree while pointing out examples of games that have both "comedy" and "serious" moments are kind of off the mark. You can absolutely have both. They are two sides of the same coin.

Edgar Wright's movies are usually perfect examples of this and what I point to most of the time. Shaun of the Dead is one of the funniest movies ever made. It also features one of the most heartbreaking scenes in any movie where the protagonist is tearfully forced to kill his own mom. Hot Fuzz is also consistently a laughing riot until one of the characters needs to deal with their dad being the antagonist. The World's End which features one of Simon Pegg's most hilarious roles as a perpetually drunk and obnoxious goof who never left his teenage years, having to deal with an alien invasion after forcing his friends into a pub crawl, ends with this emotional gutwrangler of a scene.



All of this still holds a consistent tone despite a scale that constantly evolves. You can have an inconsistent tone even if you just focus on telling a story without comedy or without serious moments, but if you want an example of what an inconsistent tone is with elements that feature both, Star Wars Episode III is a good example. We go from Anakin committing a Jedi taboo in the opening scene that dramatically alters his character, and a couple of minutes later, we're back to Obi-Wan quipping and R2-D2 doing stupid slapstick shit. Then in a later scene, Obi-Wan is back to quipping while Anakin brutally slaughters children and gets burned to a crisp.

So yeah, when you point out that a game goes from having serious moments to slapstick comedy, keep that in mind. I'd argue something like Persona balances this stuff well because it's essentially a story about high schoolers thrust into world-ending scenarios; the humor is primarily brought about by character and the fact that these adolescents are still viewing the world in a very casual manner. It's also a very long story that spans an entire year of character-defining experiences where they all experience growth, suffer loss, have fun etc. However I will point out that Persona 4 does this element much better than Persona 5. The former generally keeps things balanced in regards to what characters experience but the latter flubs the transition between chapter 1 and 2 pretty exponentially and how it deals with Ann.

In regards to Metal Gear Solid, I actually think tone is one of the main reasons the series has preserved and also why everything post-MGS3 has been met with divisive fan backlash. The original titles were very much informed by campy spy epics, with the first two in particular leaning heavily into it's own self-aware, over the top surrealism. The key word of these games' tone was "camp". That persisted throughout the first three MGS games, but was eventually lost after the subsequent game doubled down on it's morose and miserable tone, which was where the tonal issues became far more obvious.

Super Bunnyhop has a 40 minute long video on MGS3 and why it's mixture of camp and tragic overtones is so well executed, and is part of the reason why it in retrospect is commonly thought of by fans as the masterpiece of the series.

 

Matty H

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,108
Tone can definitely elevate a game or make it feel like it didn't quite reach its potential.
 

Vintage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,305
Europe
There's also tone from gameplay, like how the audio design or how shooting the gun feels aesthetically next to the narrative itself which is felt through the design.

You can have a game with really great design and great narrative (tonally consistent narrative too) but mechanics that feel overly goofy.

I think, by accident the 3DS port of Ocarina of Time was let down in its tone because the redone animations were overly jerky. It messed with the rest of the aesthetic.

That's the problem I have with this thread - I think people are using term "tone" too loose. How is gun sound considered part of game's tone (not literally of course)? That's just audio design, which is part of general design.

Tone is part of design and it just happens that best games have consistent, matching tone, because they are created by the best designers. It's not a magic ingredient - tone on it's own can't save the game, however, it can ruin it. If that's what OP had in mind, then yes, I agree.