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PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,985
First off, I'll agree with the OP that Sigma 6 was a decent toyline, even if the scale and design was very different from any of the Joe lines that came before it.

Also, while the delay for Retaliation played a big part, the fact that Retaliation basically flopped also played a huge part... if it had done well I think stores would have been excited to buy new product.

Also, that scale of figure is basically dying out, probably because of what someone said before, they're really sized more to sell vehicles and that's not really happening right now.

Retaliation wasn't a flop, it made more than Rise of Cobra. Retaliation was made on a smaller budget as well, even with the added cost of adding in 3D to the movie. Retaliation made nearly 75mil more at the BO than the first movie and it cost 20mil less to make. The third movie was announced soon after release as well but constant delays got it canned.

Paramount and Hasbro stated in the past the reason why the first movie even got a sequel with only a minor success at the BO was because of the merch/toy sales revenue tied into the property. The toy line being mishandled killed all the toy sales potential they had, after words no retailer would take shipment of product after they felt abandoned by being sold product that just sat on toy shelves due to the last minute film change. Any future waves of GI Joe was tainted, the big box retailers all dropped GI Joe products, and only way they kept producing product was by doing store exclusive deal with Toys R Us.

Sigma 6 toy line sales were a disaster. The old school fans hated the line, so it was stuck having to depend on new fans but the show and toy sales fell flat and quickly ended. The early 2000 toys I was speaking of were the smaller scale figures that were being released at the same time as Sigma 6 was going on.

The toy line was revitalized when they went after the collectors market, and really that's what they need to do, just like how MOTU toys are being made higher quality for the adult collectors. Hasbro needs to make larger scale and better quality collectible GI Joe figs to bring things back.
 
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mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,175
Retaliation wasn't a flop, it made more than Rise of Cobra. Retaliation was made on a smaller budget as well, even with the added cost of adding in 3D to the movie. Retaliation made nearly 75mil more at the BO than the first movie and it cost 20mil less to make. The third movie was announced soon after release as well but constant delays got it canned.

Paramount and Hasbro stated in the past the reason why the first movie even got a sequel with only a minor success at the BO was because of the merch/toy sales revenue tied into the property. The toy line being mishandled killed all the toy sales potential they had, after words no retailer would take shipment of product after they felt abandoned by being sold product that just sat on toy shelves due to the last minute film change. Any future waves of GI Joe was tainted, the big box retailers all dropped GI Joe products, and only way they kept producing product was by doing store exclusive deal with Toys R Us.

Sigma 6 toy line sales were a disaster. The old school fans hated the line, so it was stuck having to depend on new fans but the show and toy sales fell flat and quickly ended. The early 2000 toys I was speaking of were the smaller scale figures that were being released at the same time as Sigma 6 was going on.

The toy line was revitalized when they went after the collectors market, and really that's what they need to do, just like how MOTU toys are being made higher quality for the adult collectors. Hasbro needs to make larger scale and better quality collectible GI Joe figs to bring things back.

I'm actually surprised, looking it up, how much Retaliation made overseas.

On a side note, was He-man really that much of a success? I enjoyed the line despite the Matty Collector shenanigans, but it seemed to get run into the ground even with a collectors-only mindset.
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
Read the new Unicron issue, other than being reminded of how badly the "hasbro universe" was done was a bit amazed to see not one, not two but three Cobra Commanders. I know one is the guy who took over after the previous one got shot, I heard Baroness became the female CC later and the other is......the original? I have no idea.
 
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Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273
Takara are making an interesting new mail-order set that consists of Dai Atlas, Sonic Bomber, and Road Fire. They even combine into...something.

Bp14.jpg

Bp2.jpg


Also, PE's Not-TM2 Megatron is out! At least in Asia. US retailers will probably get it soon, though.

 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,175
I was kind of surprised when I went into Target today and they had the Transformers card game displayed in the toy aisle. I wonder how it'll do.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Anyone knows if these are legit or knockoffs?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BPF-Genera...=item48b1939643:g:GV4AAOSwoDFbdT36:rk:11:pf:0
I've seen these TFs from China with "Deformation" in the boxes rather than "Transformers"; I'd assume knockoffs, but they're extremelly widespread (to the point you can't pretty much find anything else from China). The prices seem pretty "normal" (not super cheap, just fair) which is mostly why I'm asking. Is this just the official packaging in China?
 

Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273
Anyone knows if these are legit or knockoffs?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BPF-Genera...=item48b1939643:g:GV4AAOSwoDFbdT36:rk:11:pf:0
I've seen these TFs from China with "Deformation" in the boxes rather than "Transformers"; I'd assume knockoffs, but they're extremelly widespread (to the point you can't pretty much find anything else from China). The prices seem pretty "normal" (not super cheap, just fair) which is mostly why I'm asking. Is this just the official packaging in China?

If it's from China, Taiwan, or Hong Kong, it's 99.9% a knock off. They're actually pretty popular in the west on TF centric sites.
 
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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
They even combine into...something.

Clearly they combine into the Town Musicians of Bremen. :)

If it's from China, Taiwan, or Hong Kong, it's 99.9% a knock off. They're actually pretty popular in the west on TF centric sites.

It's kind of weird, because, they're not labelled as such like most other knockoffs are, and they're kind of full price, so you'd assume the seller would get a ton of negative eBay feedback...
 

Yams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,841
Guys...


Even Team Whirl...

I am going to miss the fuck out of The Lost Light series.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I didn't realize how much I cared about these characters until those last few pages.

I dunno if I'll miss this book, the divorce has been bitter, but I'm sure as hell going to miss these characters because I'm never getting them back.

Rodimus will be a joke again. Cyclonus will probably be evil. Tailgate will be nothing. It'll all be reset back to Autobots waging their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons.
 

Yams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,841
I dunno if I'll miss this book, the divorce has been bitter, but I'm sure as hell going to miss these characters because I'm never getting them back.

Rodimus will be a joke again. Cyclonus will probably be evil. Tailgate will be nothing. It'll all be reset back to Autobots waging their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons.

I'm going to miss this Rodimus and Megatron so much.
 

The Namekian

Member
Nov 5, 2017
4,876
New York City
It was a great comic. I am still in denial that they are rebooting the universe. I've been reading it since Hail Megatron when it was just Rodimus is a joke, and Megatron is evil, and Optimus is going to die. They've evolved so far beyond that its a shame they are starting over.

I got to say the issues when Optimus and Megatron were reminiscing in a jail cell about their fights, The rescue of Kup, The first two wreckers minis, and the Origin of Megatron we're my favorite parts. Just high level lore/character building. The DJD final battle was may favorite "story arc end/battle", and Ultra Magnus, Ratchet, and Rodimus were my favorite characters. Between those three it was like reading Spock, Bones, and Kirk in space if they were Giant Robots.

Like that's the best part of this whole run over the years they did, is I doubt anyone who reads it all way be able to say "Optimus is my favorite character" cause they made him into a force of nature more than a character and that was ok cause honestly that's what he was built to be. Then once they calmed Megatron down and gave him a motive for what he did, you then saw why he was the boss of the Decepticons too, because he was up there with Optimus. Not quite a force of nature but beyond everyone else.

Just a great take on the Transformer universe. If it wasn't for all those other property tie-ins I think it could have been damn near flawless. They really gave those robots more humanity than just about every other comic out.
 
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Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,982
If you count MTMTE and Lost Light together, it lasted 2 issues longer than the original G1 Marvel series. That's a pretty damn long run of good to great TF fiction. Probably the best we've ever gotten, and maybe the best we'll ever get. I don't like that they're rebooting, but I'm trying to stay in the mindset of "At least we got what we got."
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
It was a great comic. I am still in denial that they are rebooting the universe. I've been reading it since Hail Megatron when it was just Rodimus is a joke, and Megatron is evil, and Optimus is going to die. They've evolved so far beyond that its a shame they are starting over.

I got to say the issues when Optimus and Megatron were reminiscing in a jail cell about their fights, The rescue of Kup, The first two wreckers minis, and the Origin of Megatron we're my favorite parts. Just high level lore/character building. The DJD final battle was may favorite "story arc end/battle", and Ultra Magnus, Ratchet, and Rodimus were my favorite characters. Between those three it was like reading Spock, Bones, and Kirk in space if they were Giant Robots.

Like that's the best part of this whole run over the years they did, is I doubt anyone who reads it all way be able to say "Optimus is my favorite character" cause they made him into a force of nature more than a character and that was ok cause honestly that's what he was built to be. Then once they calmed Megatron down and gave him a motive for what he did, you then saw why he was the boss of the Decepticons too, because he was up there with Optimus. Not quite a force of nature but beyond everyone else.

Just a great take on the Transformer universe. If it wasn't for all those other property tie-ins I think it could have been damn near flawless. They really gave those robots more humanity than just about every other comic out.

Very well said. The only thing I'd say is that Megatron is portrayed pretty much as a force of nature too (the only one able to stand toe to toe with Optimus, after all); it's just that he's also portrayed as a deep, complex character, and since taking up pacifism, he shows his sheer badassery in more subtle, strategic ways.

If you count MTMTE and Lost Light together, it lasted 2 issues longer than the original G1 Marvel series. That's a pretty damn long run of good to great TF fiction. Probably the best we've ever gotten, and maybe the best we'll ever get. I don't like that they're rebooting, but I'm trying to stay in the mindset of "At least we got what we got."

I'm trying to get into that mindset too. Seeing it a bit like Watchmen: a complete work of art that will endure for years and decades to come.
 

Parisi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,810
Forgot to post this last week, but when I visited Hasbro's showroom during NYCC, they gave me this really cool Transformers print, which I may have framed and hang in my game room....

44640538144_d33357f5d0_b.jpg
 

Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273

Yams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,841
If you count MTMTE and Lost Light together, it lasted 2 issues longer than the original G1 Marvel series. That's a pretty damn long run of good to great TF fiction. Probably the best we've ever gotten, and maybe the best we'll ever get. I don't like that they're rebooting, but I'm trying to stay in the mindset of "At least we got what we got."

Same thing.

I hope they do a couple of deluxe omnibus releases for this series
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,982
Same thing.

I hope they do a couple of deluxe omnibus releases for this series

At this point I just hope Hasbro lets them finish the hardcover collections. There was talk that Hasbro wanted them to shut all that completely down, which would result in the IDW Collection Phase 2 hardcovers stopping around MTMTE #50. It would be a shame to not collect the whole IDW universe in that line.
 

Yams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,841
At this point I just hope Hasbro lets them finish the hardcover collections. There was talk that Hasbro wanted them to shut all that completely down, which would result in the IDW Collection Phase 2 hardcovers stopping around MTMTE #50. It would be a shame to not collect the whole IDW universe in that line.

What happened to make them just wrap the line up this fast?
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Oh man, even team Whirl...

I love the way that almost every member of the now-massive cast gets a line that still sums up who they are.

Agree entirely on discussion of megatron. MTMTE/LL is easily my favourite take on the characters, as it rounded out Megatron, Soundwave, Ravage, Thundercracker and more. The whole 'functionist' rebellion underpinning Megatron's transformation from working class poet to resistance leader to tyrant (and loads more of the characters) before it all gets lost in the difference between the initial autobot and decepticon philosophy, was just awesome. That Meg's initial motivation gets lost as he's forced to maintain control over violent psychopaths using it as an excuse, becoming one in the process, was interesting enough, but his whole arc in LL was just wonderful. It never betrays who he is, and most importantly doesn't neuter Megatron even when he turns his cannon into a medkit and becomes a pacifist.Hes still got 'presence' and radiates leadership, and right up to the end some of the autobots still think he's faking it, thus not neutering the fear of him instilled by millions of years of warfare. I really like that. It's not about rehabilitating or Flanderising Megatron, it's about character growth while still acknowledging that his (infamous) achievements and abilities stand even without needing him shooting at stuff.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,982
What happened to make them just wrap the line up this fast?

More accurately, Hasbro decided to completely restart all of its properties from scratch on film, presumably in a "cinematic universe" format, and wants to synch up all of its brands with that relaunch, so all the old stuff has to go. If the IDW stuff had been selling better, it might have survived, but the massive mishandling of the Revolution event cost them a ton of readers, most of whom never returned. I admit I dropped out of the IDW stuff when it happened, simply because I had no idea what to read or when. None of it was numbered and a bunch of it came out late, and I just never came back to any of it until much later when Lost Light had a couple of TPBs out.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Oh man, even team Whirl...

I love the way that almost every member of the now-massive cast gets a line that still sums up who they are.

Agree entirely on discussion of megatron. MTMTE/LL is easily my favourite take on the characters, as it rounded out Megatron, Soundwave, Ravage, Thundercracker and more. The whole 'functionist' rebellion underpinning Megatron's transformation from working class poet to resistance leader to tyrant (and loads more of the characters) before it all gets lost in the difference between the initial autobot and decepticon philosophy, was just awesome. That Meg's initial motivation gets lost as he's forced to maintain control over violent psychopaths using it as an excuse, becoming one in the process, was interesting enough, but his whole arc in LL was just wonderful. It never betrays who he is, and most importantly doesn't neuter Megatron even when he turns his cannon into a medkit and becomes a pacifist.Hes still got 'presence' and radiates leadership, and right up to the end some of the autobots still think he's faking it, thus not neutering the fear of him instilled by millions of years of warfare. I really like that. It's not about rehabilitating or Flanderising Megatron, it's about character growth while still acknowledging that his (infamous) achievements and abilities stand even without needing him shooting at stuff.

Agree with everything, but especially that it's not about flanderising Megatron; in fact, it's the exact opposite; it's hard not to see villain Megatron as the flanderised one!

More accurately, Hasbro decided to completely restart all of its properties from scratch on film, presumably in a "cinematic universe" format, and wants to synch up all of its brands with that relaunch, so all the old stuff has to go.

Which I don't understand, as even they don't seem sure whether Bumblebee will be a reboot or what. Would have made far more sense to see how it did and decide from there.

Revolution was so bad. Fuck that event for ruining everything

Yeah, I couldn't read more than one issue. Clearly the start of the end, crossovers fuck everything up so bad. I mean, when even intra-Transformers crossovers like Dark Cybertron are bad, what hope is there for that toybox mishmash?
 
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Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273
Ha, just got my PE Mega Doragon order from Robot Kingdom and they gave me a free pack of the new Transformers TCG. Got Kickback as my foil. If i had to get an Insecticon I would have preferred Shrapnel but eh, free stuff is free stuff ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They also gave me four packs of movie trading cards but I just threw them away.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Ha, just got my PE Mega Doragon order from Robot Kingdom and they gave me a free pack of the new Transformers TCG. Got Kickback as my foil. If i had to get an Insecticon I would have preferred Shrapnel but eh, free stuff is free stuff ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
They also gave me four packs of movie trading cards but I just threw them away.

Wow, that's nice. Since you can't do much with a booster pack I'm assuming this is some "first one is free" drug dealer strategy. :D

Also I thought you guys might appreciate an enemy for my game that I've worked in for the past couple days.

 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
Until you quoted it right now I didn't realize the thing in the middle is Omega Supreme's decapitated head. :D
While that could be Omega Supreme's head, it's more generally the head of a Guardian Robot.

Omega Supreme was just one of many similar looking Guardian Robots, and as I recall, Megatron did actually decapitate one of them in one of the G1 flashback episodes.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,982
While that could be Omega Supreme's head, it's more generally the head of a Guardian Robot.

Omega Supreme was just one of many similar looking Guardian Robots, and as I recall, Megatron did actually decapitate one of them in one of the G1 flashback episodes.

Guardian Robots have clear visors, blue heads, and white hoses, which that head doesn't. Plus, Omega Supreme's orange visor has always been one of his visual trademarks. I'm sure he'll be alive and well enough to be the Titan Class toy for the line, but I'd say that's definitely meant to be him as Megatron's footstool.
 

Parisi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,810
Uh, no; Titans look nothing like that. I guess you mean a Guardian, but it's been explained above that it's not one of these either.

Yes, sorry, Guardian, and it was explained to me at the Hasbro showroom during NYCC from a Transformers rep that it was the head of a guardian that Megatron built his throne upon. Either way, I love the poster and I need to get it framed.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,982
Orange visor = Omega Supreme

It's just representative artwork, anyway, it doesn't have to be some new canon.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
So do we know anything yet about the rebooted Transformers comics? Is it just going to be a movie tie in?
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,982
I don't think IDW has said anything. They're probably waiting for marching orders from Hasbro, and Hasbro's probably waiting to see how Bumblebee does at the box office before deciding which direction to go with everything.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I guess there's not much sense in doing another original universe if they just ended the last one due to poor sales.

TBH I want a sorta light hearted, superheroic Animated thing again. Where the battles between Autobot and Decepticon are exciting space adventures rather than gritty, bloody war.

Did Revolution really screw the TF comics that bad? I liked ROM.
 

Neo0mj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,273
That's a lot cheaper than I thought it would be.

Probably helps that it's all plastic. Their Not-Leo COnvoy is much smaller despite being close in price, but that thing had a lot of die-cast metal in it.
As long as it's not a combiner the price of most 3P stuff isn't that bad. Just keep in mind that engineering and QC aren't as good as the official Hastak stuff, and that even among 3P stuff quality can vary greatly. MMC are one of the most professionally made 3P stuff while PE need to do more work, even though their stuff looks great.

Yes, sorry, Guardian, and it was explained to me at the Hasbro showroom during NYCC from a Transformers rep that it was the head of a guardian that Megatron built his throne upon. Either way, I love the poster and I need to get it framed.

While that makes more sense than just letting the cons take out Supreme, they goofed with the design of the head since like others said, that's not how Guardians look.

latest
 
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Nov 1, 2017
8,061
I guess there's not much sense in doing another original universe if they just ended the last one due to poor sales.

TBH I want a sorta light hearted, superheroic Animated thing again. Where the battles between Autobot and Decepticon are exciting space adventures rather than gritty, bloody war.

Did Revolution really screw the TF comics that bad? I liked ROM.

But we are getting another one. That or a new one is created out of this one. It's hardly the first time they started anew, it'll happen again eventually. Such is the nature of comics and Transformers itself. Always reinvented and changing, some like, some don't. We'll get old takes, new takes and some in between smooshed together to create something familiar yet different. It reminds me of Doctor Who.

The big question that needs to be asked is if IDW will still have the license because I'm having doubts. They lost quite a bit of money themselves.

If Revolution was the fatal blow not sure, but sales were horrid. The 2005 forum had some sales numbers there.