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sven

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,544
OP's friend sounds like my worthless ass. Well except I avoid relationships like the plague and I don't burden my friends with complaints because I know this life is one of my making. It's not like I didn't see this coming. I just don't care enough to do anything about it.
 

Ganransu

Member
Nov 21, 2017
1,270
Wish I had a friend like you back then. I needed someone to kick me in the face to wake me up.

You're a good friend.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
When keeping it real goes wrong.

But seriously, there are people out there that sometimes need a hard reality check to make the necessary changes in life.
 

Piecake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,298
If your friend is terrified of failure I would recommend him reading Mindset by Carol Dweck.

It really helped me out and will probably help him as it seems like he is ready for a change.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
It's one of the only genuine examples of what was said over the course of the conversation. Sorry of it doesn't strike me a massive red flag regarding the quality of it all.
I would agree that it sounds like the OP was more interested in venting than being constructive at the time of the rant, but this was after 10 years of the OP trying to be patient and supportive and getting nowhere, if we're going to take his posts at face value. So I don't know about giving him high-fives over the 40-minute pussy rant, but I can understand how someone could eventually snap when dealing with someone who's exhibited toxic behavior for a decade with no signs of self-reflection or progress. At a certain point you're just getting dragged down, instead of helping the other person up.
 

Deleted member 14887

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,030
I think op's heart was in the right place but could have taken a slightly different approach.

I could have used a dressing down like this maybe not for 40 minutes or being called a pussy like 8 years ago. I had to give myself this talk in my head and reassess my life 3 1/2 years ago. Even then I was still fairly negative as a person and only realized it after being ghosted by my best friend and asking them why. I really hope your friend takes what you said and uses it to right his ship with your continued support.
 

Pink Tape

Member
Oct 25, 2017
951
Red Velvet's cookie jar
Speaking from experience, I can say the "tough love" stuff didn't help me at all. Only things it did is made me feel worse about myself and strained the relationship I had with this person even more than before. This person also violated my trust and privacy to "help" me and you can probably imagine how well that went.

I only changed/continue to change because I chose to. It took me a long time to due to my issues but I got there on my own and still have a long way to go.
 

oneils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,081
Ottawa Canada
This just reminds me of the old confessions threads you used to run.

uh wait. NTGYK is NotTheGuyYouKill? I should have put that together. He's sure slowed down recently.

OP, aside from your friend's troubles, I hope life is treating you well.

As for your friend, sounds like he needed it. Take be too hard on yourself. People need to vent, but they can't just vent and expect others to soak up their stress. Its something I do too, download stress on to others. So push back is definitely healthy if you feel it has gone too far.
 

SillyGoose

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
456
What exactly is so bad about your friend's life? Dead end job? Debt? If he has a girlfriend (albeit a shitty one), is in shape, and has a job I don't see whats so shitty about his life.
 

joecanada

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,651
Canada
Everyones different so i won't judge op you have to give him credit for sticking around though. I know lots of people got phased completely out of friends circles way before 10 years
 

MoonScented

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
685
Like seriously, he's spent the 15 years I've known him coasting, bitching about his life, and not really doing anything to improve, jumping from one bad relationship to the next because of his fear of being lonely, not going for what he wants in life because of his fear of rejection, and basically just... not trying.

His older brother is married, successful, with two kids, and my buddy is bitching about it and how he wants to change his life (which he always does) and I just finally got tired of being a sounding board, and let him have it. He's always bitching about wanting to change this and that and just never does anything, just makes noise about it and wants a pity party and I basically just let him have it that at age 29, all his problems are self-created and self-inflicted and that he feels like a leech because he's being a leech and that all his friends have spent more than a decade trying to get him to change and see why his life is shit and he's spent all that time denying and not doing anything about it, and that's the reason no one but me hangs out with him anymore.

I kind of ranted for like forty minutes bringing stuff up over teh past ten years as examples as to why he's basically been failing life and how it was up to him to make the best of his situation and he consistently doesn't make an effort because he's more scared of failing than anything else, and that ironically enough is what turned him into a failure.

The quarter-life crisis is real.

Anyway, he broke down and started crying and I felt really awkward because I didn't expect that. He said he was gonna try to do better and then he left because his horribly abusive and shitty girlfriend called him to monopolize his time some more.


I have a good buddy of over 10 years who is exactly like that. I too broke down one day and just gave him a big dose of the truth. We didn't speak for about 3 months after, but he started actually turning his life around. That was 2 years ago, and he's doing the best he ever has(still not really great per say), but he lost 80 pounds and only blames his failures on other people about once a month now opposed to every other breath.
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
People, this wasn't tough love, this was OP lashing out and hurting his friend.

Tough love is strict, yes. But a hell of a lot calmer, maybe telling him you can't handle him being a downer in the moment, and then asking your friend to readied before you give them the dressing down of a life time. A 40 minute unprompted rant. My God. This is just fucking borderline abuse.

OP. You need to apologize. Not for what you said, as it does sound like stuff he probably needed to hear. But how you handled it is absolutely unacceptable. Like, shit, you even mentioned he has an abusive girlfriend, how do you know he's not going to talk to her about how you just treated him shitty and manipulate him more? Think, dammit.
 

Notaskwid

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,652
Osaka
If your friend is terrified of failure I would recommend him reading Mindset by Carol Dweck.

It really helped me out and will probably help him as it seems like he is ready for a change.
Thanks for the recommendation. I definitely have fear of failure (and in some extreme cases fear of success) so I'll be reading this.
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
While it's true some people do need a wake up call in life, you sound like a complete asshole.
You don't know what kind of demons he's been fighting all his life. I'm sure he's real glad his more 'successful' friend, who he probably looks up to, verbally disintegrated him for 40 minutes.

You could have broached the subject as a friend and offered your advice and/or help because you're worried about him.
Having a heart-to-heart between friends means showing you care, it does not mean shovelling shit on his already shitty situation. This was just you venting.
 

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
Does your friend have ADHD? I went untreated most of my adult life and I seemed to be in the same place he was. Now that I understand the cause of why I was, I know that I can treat it effectively and my life has gotten so much better.

Bring that up, OP. Obviously, no one but a doctor can diagnose him, but encourage him to see if he has it. If he does and he gets proper medication treatment, his life can LITERATELY CHANGE and everything WILL fucking turn around for him almost like magic.
 
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adrem007

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,679
You did what you had to do OP, you supported your friend for a long time but there comes a time when they have to get their fucking act together on their own
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
Does your friend have ADHD? I went untreated most of my adult life and I seemed to be in the same place he was. Now that I understand the cause of why I was, I know that I can treat it effectively and my life has gotten so much better.

Bring that up, OP. Obviously, no one but a doctor can diagnose him, but encourage him to see if he has it. If he does and he gets proper medication treatment, his life can become a thousand times better.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you treat it?
 

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
If you don't mind me asking, how did you treat it?

Medication is the only thing that really works for me, and that's NOTHING to be ashamed about. A disorder that is neurogenetic is best treated with neurogenetic therapy, IE medication. CBT works too, but it needs to be done so IN CONJUNCTION with medication.

Amphetamine is the only thing that works for me.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
These situations are a rock and a hard place OP, but I don't think what you did was wrong. It seems like your friend was giving you a lot of his negative energy over the years, so it is not surprising that at some point it might cause a spark. It seems to be that context plays a pretty important role in people staying in a mental loop. for instance, different factors act as enablers for people to keep going in certain mindsets and ways of doing. Whether it is staying with his parents, job, girlfriend. You are right to point these things out to him, and it seems like you have said them before in a more diplomatic manner. As others have said though, change does require some inner acceptance and motivation in most circumstances. You can support him, but if he isn't ultimately willing to change or stuck in such mental loop, you are not going to see much immediate impact.

On the other hand, things can perculate with time. It is obvious he took it to heart, and I don't think that is a bad things. I am also a firm believer that in some instances, people just don't know how to enact what is best for them, and that has a big social effect as well. So it is in their friends interests for them to change certain aspects of themselves, otherwise it can be intolerable to spend much time with them. For instance, if there own behaviour isn't making them happy at all, then that needs to change. I think our mentality is often quite plastic, but can take a lot to shift.

Those reacting harshly on the OP: He has known this friend for years and finally exploded. He obviously seems to care about him. Why only have compassion for one side of the story? I mean this is one side of the story, but from this it sounds like his friend has been giving negative energy for years. Sure, there is a reason for that which we should have compassion for, but it is still a negative traight that can make others feel bad. For instance, I am someone who has pretty firey anger, and that is something I threw out to others, especially my dad, and he tended to absorb that energy. It is not always a one way process of being a victim or a purpatrator. Relationships are often more complex. That being said, in many cases with mental issues, you absolutely cannot expect just to solve another persons problem. I don't think the OP was of that mindset though. Shit just hit the fan, as they say...which it does sometimes.

Speaking from experience, I can say the "tough love" stuff didn't help me at all. Only things it did is made me feel worse about myself and strained the relationship I had with this person even more than before. This person also violated my trust and privacy to "help" me and you can probably imagine how well that went.

I only changed/continue to change because I chose to. It took me a long time to due to my issues but I got there on my own and still have a long way to go.

I think to say others didn't have an impact on your change is likely a bit simplistic. For instance, what made you choose at one point rather than another? Whose to say that his actions didn't have an affect, just not the determinative shift when he was hassling you?
 
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Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
9,185
I got to be honest with you, but you don't sound like you care much about him.

Yeah this bothers me too. This isn't something that you text "you ok man" after. Call him or try to meet up with him again if he really means that much to you. It doesn't like he's really trying to build him back up either. Makes it sound like his friend is just a burden more than a friend which, judging by the rest of his posts, isn't surprising.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,344
Your friend seems to be going through a long term depression and it looks like you're being annoyed by it.

Not sure I'd call you a hero tbh.

People with depression don't know where to start to get out of it. It's not a matter of you walking up to them and saying "why the long face, cheer up" or "get your shit together man" and it magically disappears.

Your friend is deep in shit most likely. He needs help, and unless you're a professional you should be very careful with what you say to him.

If you care for him, make sure to help him find a professional.
 

Deleted member 6056

Oct 25, 2017
7,240
Like seriously, he's spent the 15 years I've known him coasting, bitching about his life, and not really doing anything to improve, jumping from one bad relationship to the next because of his fear of being lonely, not going for what he wants in life because of his fear of rejection, and basically just... not trying.

His older brother is married, successful, with two kids, and my buddy is bitching about it and how he wants to change his life (which he always does) and I just finally got tired of being a sounding board, and let him have it. He's always bitching about wanting to change this and that and just never does anything, just makes noise about it and wants a pity party and I basically just let him have it that at age 29, all his problems are self-created and self-inflicted and that he feels like a leech because he's being a leech and that all his friends have spent more than a decade trying to get him to change and see why his life is shit and he's spent all that time denying and not doing anything about it, and that's the reason no one but me hangs out with him anymore.

I kind of ranted for like forty minutes bringing stuff up over teh past ten years as examples as to why he's basically been failing life and how it was up to him to make the best of his situation and he consistently doesn't make an effort because he's more scared of failing than anything else, and that ironically enough is what turned him into a failure.

The quarter-life crisis is real.

Anyway, he broke down and started crying and I felt really awkward because I didn't expect that. He said he was gonna try to do better and then he left because his horribly abusive and shitty girlfriend called him to monopolize his time some more.
Good. Being coddled wont help folks like that. Truth is, no one is special. You dont earn it you won't have it. If it didn't take effort it won't have value. Success is measured by your ability to face challenges and failure and keep going till you overcome them. Might be easier for some than others but if you never tried then stop fooling yourself over why things don't make you happy. It's because you never earned it and you know it and you will never feel fulfilled until you have done enough to feel you actually achieved something for real.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,835
You did the right thing, but were a little too harsh. Sometimes people are trapped in their closed system and they need someone to break them out of it. At the same time, it would've been nice if after he started crying you gave him some hope and helped him put together some kind of plan to turn things around. I imagine he's feeling pretty hopeless and lonely right now, which isn't a good thing.

I know because I've been in a similar situation before. Everyone needs a wake up call, but everyone should also know that they can turn things around with effort. My advice is to meet with him asap and get him serious about things.
 
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Pink Tape

Member
Oct 25, 2017
951
Red Velvet's cookie jar
I think to say others didn't have an impact on your change is likely a bit simplistic. For instance, what made you choose at one point rather than another? Whose to say that his actions didn't have an affect, just not the determinative shift when he was hassling you?

You do have a point. Now that I'm honestly thinking about it, there are people that have influenced me changing. People that have been through similar experiences, experts that know the symptoms to my issues and can give me ways to improve my life, and strangers on the internet encouraging me to make these changes.

I'm still pretty upset about it so I apologize if I sound agitated or am not making sense. Just kinda over them at this point tbh.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,047
Had to show him some tough love I guess. I know people like this too and there is only so much you can do before they begin to drag you down with them whenever you hang out.

Did you provide some solutions to his problems though? Cause I can see how someone could get upset if you just berate them for 40 minutes even if they do need it.

Well if OP's story is mostly true he probably didn't give any solutions because he's been given solutions for the past 15 years by literally every person and friend that cared enough about him to want to fix his issue and he ignores it for pity parties.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
You do have a point. Now that I'm honestly thinking about it, there are people that have influenced me changing. People that have been through similar experiences, experts that know the symptoms to my issues and can give me ways to improve my life, and strangers on the internet encouraging me to make these changes.

I'm still pretty upset about it so I apologize if I sound agitated or am not making sense. Just kinda over them at this point tbh.

that is perfectly fine man! And it is great to reflect on it like that. I have always been a pretty strong minded person, but over time I have realised how massively influenced my choices have been by other people and my environment. And that is okay! It is the same for everyone. You've done great finding your path. It is also totally possible that friends trying to tell you how to change your life for what they perceive to better choices can give unhelpful suggestions, and can be unskillful how they do it. That is something I am learning as well...how to communicate skillfully. The fact of the matter is, how you say something can matter as much or more than the content, to the person you are talking to.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
Wearing people down like he did with his complaining is what keeps me from sharing my feelings.

I don't want to do that to others.

A harsh scolding might sometimes be what's needed. You can't expect to use 'positive sugar coated advise' for the umpteenth time if a person is on a repeating self-inflicted crash course.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,898
A harsh scolding might sometimes be what's needed. You can't expect to use 'positive sugar coated advise' for the umpteenth time if a person is on a repeating self-inflicted crash course.

If someone is dealing with learned helplessness and deep depression, a harsh scolding from someone they probably find comfort in will rarely help. They need to seek professional help to deal with their problems and they need supportive friends.

Straight up venting all your frustration at someone is not helpful if you just leave it there and don't help them be productive.
 

Deleted member 2595

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,475
Does your friend have ADHD? I went untreated most of my adult life and I seemed to be in the same place he was. Now that I understand the cause of why I was, I know that I can treat it effectively and my life has gotten so much better.

Bring that up, OP. Obviously, no one but a doctor can diagnose him, but encourage him to see if he has it. If he does and he gets proper medication treatment, his life can LITERATELY CHANGE and everything WILL fucking turn around for him almost like magic.
That's a really good point
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,467
Like seriously, he's spent the 15 years I've known him coasting, bitching about his life, and not really doing anything to improve, jumping from one bad relationship to the next because of his fear of being lonely, not going for what he wants in life because of his fear of rejection, and basically just... not trying.

His older brother is married, successful, with two kids, and my buddy is bitching about it and how he wants to change his life (which he always does) and I just finally got tired of being a sounding board, and let him have it. He's always bitching about wanting to change this and that and just never does anything, just makes noise about it and wants a pity party and I basically just let him have it that at age 29, all his problems are self-created and self-inflicted and that he feels like a leech because he's being a leech and that all his friends have spent more than a decade trying to get him to change and see why his life is shit and he's spent all that time denying and not doing anything about it, and that's the reason no one but me hangs out with him anymore.

I kind of ranted for like forty minutes bringing stuff up over teh past ten years as examples as to why he's basically been failing life and how it was up to him to make the best of his situation and he consistently doesn't make an effort because he's more scared of failing than anything else, and that ironically enough is what turned him into a failure.

The quarter-life crisis is real.

Anyway, he broke down and started crying and I felt really awkward because I didn't expect that. He said he was gonna try to do better and then he left because his horribly abusive and shitty girlfriend called him to monopolize his time some more.
Sounds like you're a shittier friend.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
Sounds like a good outcome.

Not in a "he deserves it" kinda way, by more like he gets it now.
 

MagicDoogies

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,047
Also I think people missed the part where the friend has been complaining about his circumstances for several years and according to the OP has done nothing except avoid any and all paths to self improvement since they were afraid of failing.

Can people honestly say they too wouldn't get annoyed at someone who constantly complains to you about their lot in life but makes no moves to improve it even a fraction for years on end?

This too. OP already stated that they-along with now gone friends of his have been being his ear, therapist, financial support and solution givers to this friend for 15 fucking years, and all that has been consistently brushed off for the sake of supposedly doing more pity party shit.
I can understand if people were spewing venom at OP if the friend was only recently acting like this who used to have his shit together and this is how he reacted.

But 15? That is a long ass fucking time. To be quite honest most people would of fucking ghosted him completely. It seems like he is the only one of his friends to not only stick with him but also TELL HIM point blank why he's in the situation he's in and why his other friends dumped him.
Unless said friend also happens to be an ERA user and makes their own counter OP, as some people have said, we only have half the story. With the assumption being that OP is lying to us in some way.
At best you can suggest that what he did was wrong. But some of the more heavy handed judgements of OP's character best be left to mental notes. We literally know nothing of the situation save for what we are told.
 
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Jan 2, 2018
1,476
Sometimes you need a hard reality check. You are a good friend for telling him.

5 years ago my best friend did the same to me and looking back he was absolutely right.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
If someone is dealing with learned helplessness and deep depression, a harsh scolding from someone they probably find comfort in will rarely help. They need to seek professional help to deal with their problems and they need supportive friends.

Straight up venting all your frustration at someone is not helpful if you just leave it there and don't help them be productive.

This is where i begs to differ. Anecdotal..i am the type of person that reject positive reinforcement but will carry out real action if negative reinforcement is forced upon me.
Case in point: if i'm a lazy bum located at point A and if you want me to go to point B by the river, encouragement or putting a carrot on a stick to get me to move will not coax me to do anything. If anything, i will abuse the person that's giving me carrots but demanding more carrots (and yet not doing anything). The only thing that can get me to move to point B by the river is to set my ass on fire....and then you will watch me fly to the river. Yes...i will have some scars along the way at the end of the day...but at the end of the day, i am at point B by the river now, am I?

All my achievements so far i've gotten in life were achieved via 'set self ablaze'. If using the general accepted 'carrot on a stick' or 'positive encouragement' methods, i will absolutely relinquish & sulking in the basement still.

Again, my method definitely is on the extreme side and not for everyone. Similarly, 'positiveness' is a method that many likes to pimp as the one shoe fits all for everyone and i think many of you fail to realize that there are many 'psychological leeches' that feeds on other peoples' empathy. Instead of using a friends' concern as a motivation to become better, these people merely sulk even more just so that they can feed on that attention. (i know because i used to be that kind of leeches).
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,467
So, rather than confront your friends on their bullshit in an attempt to help them see that they're the source of the majority of their problems, a lot of you would avoid that difficult conversation, resulting in said continuing to be a fuck-up who blames all their problems on outside factors.

That's not being a good friend.
How do you know they're the majority of their problems?

There are a million reasons people or successful or not and it isn't just because someone didn't try hard.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
How do you know they're the majority of their problems?

There are a million reasons people or successful or not and it isn't just because someone didn't try hard.

there's a difference between unsuccessful people and people that indulge in their own failures.

I've met quite a few unsuccessful entrepeneurs with failed startups and some of them were even bankrupts but they don't indulge in their own failures or sulk and instead just move on to the next thing. They don't dwell on their failures but try to work on their next prospective success.

And then they are those that don't do anything at all and keep asking 'why am i such a failure?'

OP's friend seems to be the latter type.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,467
there's a difference between unsuccessful people and people that indulge in their own failures.

I've met quite a few unsuccessful entrepeneurs with failed startups and some of them were even bankrupts but they don't indulge in their own failures or sulk and instead just move on to the next thing. They don't dwell on their failures but try to work on their next prospective success.

And then they are those that don't do anything at all and keep asking 'why am i such a failure?'

OP's friend seems to be the latter type.
Only because you've heard the ops side of the story.
 

Manta_Breh

Member
May 16, 2018
2,537
Like seriously, he's spent the 15 years I've known him coasting, bitching about his life, and not really doing anything to improve, jumping from one bad relationship to the next because of his fear of being lonely, not going for what he wants in life because of his fear of rejection, and basically just... not trying.

His older brother is married, successful, with two kids, and my buddy is bitching about it and how he wants to change his life (which he always does) and I just finally got tired of being a sounding board, and let him have it. He's always bitching about wanting to change this and that and just never does anything, just makes noise about it and wants a pity party and I basically just let him have it that at age 29, all his problems are self-created and self-inflicted and that he feels like a leech because he's being a leech and that all his friends have spent more than a decade trying to get him to change and see why his life is shit and he's spent all that time denying and not doing anything about it, and that's the reason no one but me hangs out with him anymore.

I kind of ranted for like forty minutes bringing stuff up over teh past ten years as examples as to why he's basically been failing life and how it was up to him to make the best of his situation and he consistently doesn't make an effort because he's more scared of failing than anything else, and that ironically enough is what turned him into a failure.

The quarter-life crisis is real.

Anyway, he broke down and started crying and I felt really awkward because I didn't expect that. He said he was gonna try to do better and then he left because his horribly abusive and shitty girlfriend called him to monopolize his time some more.



You did the right thing. Sometimes people need to be given the cold harsh truth, no matter how much it hurts ... It's upto him if he wants to fix his life or not.
 

Hogendaz85

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,812
It's good that you stood up for him but there's nothing wrong with feeling for the cry especially when he started crying. Like this whole awkward thing? Crying is emotions man, like someone else said if you're a true friend apologize for that bit. Regardless though he needed to hear it at some point.
 

Deleted member 23381

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,029
Your friend sounds toxic OP, sounds like you should just bounce like the rest of his friends were smart enough to do.