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Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
If you're a control deck and you can't handle a 2 power 2 mana creature until your 4 mana board wipe, I dunno what to tell you, dude.
As if playing a control deck can be reduced to whether you draw your board wipe.

Midrange creature decks have been outvaluing blue control decks for the better part of this decade. Blue control decks had to adapt and become midrange themselves lest they get outgassed. The days where you could play a Wrath and be favoured to win most of the time are long gone.

A 2/3 that can become a 6/7 in the late game that also generates value when it dies to removal is extremely good for a bear. Unless they print a two mana 3/3 or Lightning Bolt, I don't see it going away any time soon.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
Counterspells and removal are crazy efficient in Magic. Entire classes of creatures can't be played because dying immediately to a 2 mana instant can be a blowout by itself. Midrange decks have to do nonsense like what Golgari is doing right now just to be competitive with that. You just cannot play a creature that doesn't give you some level of guaranteed value.

Thorn Lieutenant is an efficient creature and gives green some resiliency but it's not backbreaking at all. Creatures have to do something like that just to see play.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Red would kill for a two drop like that.

Tarmogoyf
Putrid Leech
Scavenging Ooze
Sylvan Advocate
Grim Flayer
Longtusk Cub

Wizards are pretty good at designing green (black) bears lol
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
As if playing a control deck can be reduced to whether you draw your board wipe.

Midrange creature decks have been outvaluing blue control decks for the better part of this decade. Blue control decks had to adapt and become midrange themselves lest they get outgassed. The days where you could play a Wrath and be favoured to win most of the time are long gone.

A 2/3 that can become a 6/7 in the late game that also generates value when it dies to removal is extremely good for a bear. Unless they print a two mana 3/3 or Lightning Bolt, I don't see it going away any time soon.
...Did you just miss the past several months of WU control being the 2nd best deck?
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,547
Counterspells and removal are crazy efficient in Magic. Entire classes of creatures can't be played because dying immediately to a 2 mana instant can be a blowout by itself. Midrange decks have to do nonsense like what Golgari is doing right now just to be competitive with that. You just cannot play a creature that doesn't give you some level of guaranteed value.

Thorn Lieutenant is an efficient creature and gives green some resiliency but it's not backbreaking at all. Creatures have to do something like that just to see play.
This isn't true. We've seen creatures without immediate value thrive in metas with good removal; most famously, Baneslayer Angel.

The actual obstacle creatures without immediate value face is other creatures that generate immediate value. There needs to be a reward that's worth waiting a turn.
 
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Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
Counterspells and removal are crazy efficient in Magic. Entire classes of creatures can't be played because dying immediately to a 2 mana instant can be a blowout by itself. Midrange decks have to do nonsense like what Golgari is doing right now just to be competitive with that. You just cannot play a creature that doesn't give you some level of guaranteed value.

Thorn Lieutenant is an efficient creature and gives green some resiliency but it's not backbreaking at all. Creatures have to do something like that just to see play.
I mean that's part of learning deckbuilding.
 

MoxManiac

Member
Nov 17, 2017
500
So sick of losing to variance. It feels worse on Arena then it does on MTGO and paper. Although that may be because my Arena games are more fresh in my mind then those.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
I haven't won a single match in like 5 drafts. Doesn't matter what I draft. I always get paired to much better decks. Whenever I draft I never get that many payoff cards lol
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,311
On arena, I just force Dimir every time, and I always end up with at least a playable deck. Usually, it's an awesome deck.
 

Angry Grimace

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,539
GBX0lL4.jpg
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
Wow, that's...admirable. I guess he wants to clean up his reputation and he knows he's cheated. I'm not sure permanent suspension is actually the right result for cheating at a high level -- though a heavy penalty should certainly be levied -- but I expected that email to be a laughable "apology" and it comes off as almost genuine.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,311
That's a strong move to get goodwill for when he comes back in 6 months once his DCI suspension expires
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
If it's 100% unquestionable cheating permanent banning is absolutely the proper response.

Frankly, it should be permanent banning with a side of lawsuit. These are money matches. You should have had to sign a contract that you're in breach of, at a minimum, as you are fundamentally stealing from other people.

The only reason clemency should exist is for cases where there's reasonable doubt it could have been an accident.
 

JustinBailey

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
If it's 100% unquestionable cheating permanent banning is absolutely the proper response.

Frankly, it should be permanent banning with a side of lawsuit. These are money matches. You should have had to sign a contract that you're in breach of, at a minimum, as you are fundamentally stealing from other people.

The only reason clemency should exist is for cases where there's reasonable doubt it could have been an accident.
Yeah his cheat is particularly bad. Has to be intended IMO. His, as per the video, was extremely intentional. Awful.
 

IceMarker

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,269
United States
Magic Arena gives me good practice for my paper Standard decks, although I feel as though the matchmaking still feels way off. Too many mirror matches and too many aggressive decks.
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,336
It's not really that strong of a move when you realize that it's clear that he intentionally cheated and he'll permanently be tainted by his actions. I mean yeah, it seems admirable but it's a gambit that is fairly low risk.
Permanently being labeled a cheater and always scrutinized is close to being permanently banned from the game. So suggesting that he be permanently banned is nearly equivalent to just coming back in six months. On the other hand, he has to make a strong gesture to clean up his image. This is his attempt to do so. A move like this can only be a positive for him.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
I made a terrible Superfriends deck to see how the deck-based matchmaking deals with edge cases, and it seems to only want to match it against Mono-Blue Tempo and Mono-Red Aggro, so that's interesting.
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
Hi Magic-era! So I used to play paper magic super casually with a couple of friends in High School and early Uni. I went back to my dad's house recently and found my old deck (which blows) and now I'm getting back into Magic.

My coworker who has played for 10+ years built me a couple of decks with a bunch of spare cards she had (almost entirely ravnica and M19), and I've been having fun playing against her with those in our lunch break.

Now I'm thinking about buying some more cards, either to beef up one of these decks or build a whole new one (or both)
My question is: what would be the best pack type to buy to do so? I was thinking about just grabbing a couple of boosters, but then I saw that there are several other times of packs (guild kits, planeswalker decks, toolkit etc)

Unfortunately since I live in Japan and want to play with primarily Japanese cards, the "bundle" pack is out, since it's English-only. That one seemed very appealing.

Any tips? Or is there a noob magic thread I could hit up instead of bothering people in this one? I sure can't understand about 50% of what people are talking about in here, lol

I originally posted this in the arena thread by accident, woops my bad
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
TIL Sumala Woodshaper can fetch enchantments. My opponent was dead on board with no cards in hand because of repeated Disinformation Campaign, draws Woodshaper, plays with two mana left, gets Conclave Tribunal and casts it with Convoke. Then I ran out of time lol

Any Commander focused/leaning people read this yet?

http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37865_Commander-Cards-You-Shouldnt-Play.html

I'm very interested to see what the EDH community response is.
Depends what your playgroup allows. I think cards like Back to Basics is fine since it punishes greedy mana bases and shouldn't affect you much. I play Ruination for the same reason. Stasis is different since it's really difficult to gain advantage. Even Capsize would take forever.

Hi Magic-era! So I used to play paper magic super casually with a couple of friends in High School and early Uni. I went back to my dad's house recently and found my old deck (which blows) and now I'm getting back into Magic.

My coworker who has played for 10+ years built me a couple of decks with a bunch of spare cards she had (almost entirely ravnica and M19), and I've been having fun playing against her with those in our lunch break.

Now I'm thinking about buying some more cards, either to beef up one of these decks or build a whole new one (or both)
My question is: what would be the best pack type to buy to do so? I was thinking about just grabbing a couple of boosters, but then I saw that there are several other times of packs (guild kits, planeswalker decks, toolkit etc)

Unfortunately since I live in Japan and want to play with primarily Japanese cards, the "bundle" pack is out, since it's English-only. That one seemed very appealing.

Any tips? Or is there a noob magic thread I could hit up instead of bothering people in this one? I sure can't understand about 50% of what people are talking about in here, lol

I originally posted this in the arena thread by accident, woops my bad
Figure out what format, colours and play styles you enjoy playing. Come up with a fixed budget. Then buy singles. You'll come out much better that way than buying packs and sealed products.
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,336
Hi Magic-era! So I used to play paper magic super casually with a couple of friends in High School and early Uni. I went back to my dad's house recently and found my old deck (which blows) and now I'm getting back into Magic.

My coworker who has played for 10+ years built me a couple of decks with a bunch of spare cards she had (almost entirely ravnica and M19), and I've been having fun playing against her with those in our lunch break.

Now I'm thinking about buying some more cards, either to beef up one of these decks or build a whole new one (or both)
My question is: what would be the best pack type to buy to do so? I was thinking about just grabbing a couple of boosters, but then I saw that there are several other times of packs (guild kits, planeswalker decks, toolkit etc)

Unfortunately since I live in Japan and want to play with primarily Japanese cards, the "bundle" pack is out, since it's English-only. That one seemed very appealing.

Any tips? Or is there a noob magic thread I could hit up instead of bothering people in this one? I sure can't understand about 50% of what people are talking about in here, lol

I originally posted this in the arena thread by accident, woops my bad
If you're just playing casually with a coworker, I'd just get a duel deck. They're usually reasonably balanced, fairly cheap, and don't require much to sit down and play.
 

dadjumper

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,932
New Zealand
If you're just playing casually with a coworker, I'd just get a duel deck. They're usually reasonably balanced, fairly cheap, and don't require much to sit down and play.
Hm, I hadn't heard of those. I guess those have been replaced by challenger decks these days? Just googled it.

So I guess the thing is that my coworker is playing competitive Modern, so she's pretty good. Also, I'd like to start playing casually at card shops, either just with people who are chilling, or FNM/League (league being 3-pack sealed, idk if it's called something else in English)
I'm gonna go to a shop or two tomorrow and see what the vibe is like. I don't want to play actually competitively because it seems like that just turns into buying singles to keep up with the meta. I'd rather just throw packs together, try my best to make a good deck with what I have, and meet some new people.

So, with this in mind, right now I'm leaning towards getting a couple of the welcome decks if possible to bulk out my basics/lands, and then buy maybe three or four boosters to try and get something to put in one of my two existing decks that were made for me. Does this sound viable or nah?
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,543
Just play limited, either draft or sealed, in your case. Or play pauper. Anything else and you'll have a hard time enjoying the game casually.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
Hm, I hadn't heard of those. I guess those have been replaced by challenger decks these days? Just googled it.

So I guess the thing is that my coworker is playing competitive Modern, so she's pretty good. Also, I'd like to start playing casually at card shops, either just with people who are chilling, or FNM/League (league being 3-pack sealed, idk if it's called something else in English)
I'm gonna go to a shop or two tomorrow and see what the vibe is like. I don't want to play actually competitively because it seems like that just turns into buying singles to keep up with the meta. I'd rather just throw packs together, try my best to make a good deck with what I have, and meet some new people.

So, with this in mind, right now I'm leaning towards getting a couple of the welcome decks if possible to bulk out my basics/lands, and then buy maybe three or four boosters to try and get something to put in one of my two existing decks that were made for me. Does this sound viable or nah?

I don't know what the environment is like in Japan or at your local stores, but if you have no desire to buy singles, my recommendation is that if you just want to play casually, you should stick to limited, like sealed (like prerelease and league) and draft. Your store might be casual enough that you can play Standard there with some jank brews, but it might not. But playing Draft ensures you're on a level playing field with your opponents so it's a great way to play when you don't have access to a lot of cards.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,108
Any Commander focused/leaning people read this yet?

http://www.starcitygames.com/articles/37865_Commander-Cards-You-Shouldnt-Play.html

I'm very interested to see what the EDH community response is.

Some of it is reasonable and some of it gets into the weeds. Mass land destruction is imo fine if you're at a higher powered table, its a way to keep control in check. But Paradox Engine and Seedborn Muse aren't actually ruffling feathers ever. Lab Maniac and Felidar Sovereign are probably way higher on the 'things people rightfully complain about' list.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,771
Games of EDH have to end. There's nothing wrong with putting combos or cards in your deck that actually end the game on the spot (e.g., Kiki-Jiki combos, infinite mana combos, Craterhoof Behemoth, etc). I'd much rather play games that end than games that just drag out. Maybe it has an anticlimactic conclusion, but you just shuffle up and play again!

On the flip side, cards that drag the game out unnecessarily are the fucking worst. Armageddon effects are fine only if you have something out that lets you win instantly or near instantly. For example, putting Worldslayer on a Zurgo - totally cool. Playing a Geddon onto an empty board just to reset the game? Fuck you.

That's the only rule that should matter. Does the card enable a player to win on the spot? That's cool - Magic is chock-full of those kinds of cards. Does the card enable the player to hold the table hostage, slow the game out, and drag it on as long as they like? That's not cool.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
I'm coming around to the belief that I only want to play 2v2 or duel commander ever again. Games of Magic shouldn't last as long as a lot of free for all games do.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,951
716
I have no problem with instant win combos in Commander, if the table lets it happen that's their fault. Better a quick death than a 3 hour game.
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
That's funny. Day9 finally making good on his anti blue threats. I'm all for the addition of weird restrictions events.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
I'd say the problem with EDH is that games take way, way too long. In a five player game, I've had to wait 15 minutes or more for my next turn on a regular basis. Especially from people who like to play "search your library" cards multiple times per turn. It's insane and not fun.
 

Deleted member 33761

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 19, 2017
152
How does everyone cope with doing bad with a certain deck? I recently started getting head first into modern and decided to invest in Jund since it has a lot of stuff I like. Problem is I usually don't do amazing with it and have even gone 0-4. I know I don't make the best plays at times
And it's a learning curve but I get discouraged but it's only this deck. It's not like I do amazing with everything else but there's something about Jund that gets me annoyed more than most others when I go on a losing streak
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,120
How does everyone cope with doing bad with a certain deck? I recently started getting head first into modern and decided to invest in Jund since it has a lot of stuff I like. Problem is I usually don't do amazing with it and have even gone 0-4. I know I don't make the best plays at times
And it's a learning curve but I get discouraged but it's only this deck. It's not like I do amazing with everything else but there's something about Jund that gets me annoyed more than most others when I go on a losing streak
you persevere.
with time you will learn how to play your deck in the most optimal way.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
I feel like you shouldn't have a mode where you ban instants. Just make it so your instants turn into sorceries.
 

aidan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
I feel like you shouldn't have a mode where you ban instants. Just make it so your instants turn into sorceries.

Many cards would be literally unplayable if you did this. Anything that targets a spell on the stack. There's less confusion (especially for new players) if you just do an outright ban.
 

ZealousD

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,303
Many cards would be literally unplayable if you did this. Anything that targets a spell on the stack. There's less confusion (especially for new players) if you just do an outright ban.

Just seems like a waste that you can't play something like Lightning Strike in a mode like this. There are definitely instants that would perform perfectly fine as sorceries.
 

Deleted member 29293

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,084
But the point is to see how the format plays out without these cards. You can just play regular standard if you want to cast Lightning Strike.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I think the mode sucks but playing instants as sorcery wouldn't improve it.
 

Chronos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,204
I really don't see the point of a mode that excludes an entire class of cards. Who is this even for?
 
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