He made a video responding to Mexie just three months ago where he was still decidedly anti-idpol
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Leftist Youtube |OT| We Virtue Signal
- Thread starter CannonFodder52
- Start date
- OT
Haven't watched this one yet, he looked ok in the contra point video.
I'm not sure if Sargon talked about this bill since I unsubscribed from him a long time ago. I got tired of his blatant pandering to the right-wing fanbase he acquired after his anti-far-left videos. Which is a problem I find myself facing. Critical of the bullshit a lot of people in the left peddle but also cannot stand the right in any capacity. Ugh.
Tangent aside I don't think Armored Skeptic has made a video on this subject yet though I could be miss-remembering. I actually like AS though I think he makes reasonable points. This Destiny guy just feels like he's pulling stuff out of his ass.
People just forgot about it and I don't think he ever commented on it any further?
https://amp.reddit.com/r/LateStageC...left_mods_response_to_hbomberguy_revelations/
"Context (TW: Discussion and examples of harassment, gaslighting, and rape):
It has been revealed in the past day that Hbomberguy, a Youtuber popular among the left sphere, recently released an apology about his behavior with regards to a person who was seriously uncomfortable with the actions of a producer on his videos, who was also a mod on his personal discord. Much of this on the surface seemed fairly sufficient, and many members of our mod teams at first glance thought that this was a proper self-criticism. When further context came out such as skype logs and images from his own discord, it was made abundantly clear that this was not an apology, but in fact a cover and an unwillingness to be held accountable for his behavior, whether intentional or not. (We want to add that intention is irrelevant here, because ppl come out with "his heart's in the right place" bs that we really want to avoid.)
We will be provide links to provide further context so you can judge for yourself, but the short and simple of it is that Hbomberguy refused to believe a person who is a rape survivor when he came up to Hbomb about the fact that a close friend of Hbomberguy, also serving on his production and mod team, had in 2011 made innapropriate harrassing and rapey comments towards this person. It was also acknowledged that the person in question was perceived as being "creepy" by his and Hbomberguy's female friends and fans in the live streams he participated in. Hbomberguy even shows that he knew on some level his response was wrong, but he then later said things that effectively gaslighted this person and called into question their own memory and perception of the accused party. Hbomberguy, instead of taking the time to listen to what the person had to say about his friend and keep an open mind, casted doubt about their whole experience because he didn't want to believe that his friend was sexist and a creep despite the clear evidence to the contrary.
The person had tried to originally post the details on another subreddit where the discussion could be constructive, but the mods turned it down, so he posted this on his tumblr because he had no other choice and this revelation needed to be heard and acknowledged. After it was public, people and fans got angry and had questions, so Hbomberguy responded with an apology.
After Hbomberguy released his apology on tumblr, the person released another post revealing how Hbomb's apology was not only terribly insufficient, but actually was an attempt to cover his image. Much of the discord evidence revealed the mod team to be incapable of handling a situation where someone is uncomfortable with a production member/mod's behavior. Instead of ripping the bandaid and explaining publicly to his users and fans why what he did was wrong and what he will do to rectify it, he instead tried to shut down any discussion and further casts doubt over this person's experience. Furthermore, H went as far as to claim that this person's Skype logs were faked and altered in order to further shut down discussion and avoid having to properly confront his behavior.
It should be made clear that this is NOT how you handle a case where someone has an issue with any member of your circle's behavior, much less a mod and production team member. What this shows is Hbomberguy clearly does not know how to go about handling situations like this, and in a great demonstration of irony, he actively tried to manipulate the situation and perpetuate the same culture that his very videos critique. This shows a basic and fundamental misunderstanding of what fighting against patriarchal relations is about.
Going Forward:
Because of this, the mod teams have collectively decided that we will not allow any hosting of his videos unless Hbomberguy takes serious actions to repair all of our trust. If you post any video of his on our subs, we will delete them. If you defend his actions as acceptable and write apologia over his behavior, especially after understanding all of this context given, we will ban you.
We're not going to pretend like we are pure and we never mess up, we do, we're human after all. We understand people can make mistakes and can seriously fuck up like this, but we believe that the actions need to be appropriate and measured in relation to the wrongdoing at hand.
We have a few demands in mind that we will list here:
- A proper statement addressing what he will do moving forward with his platform and problematic approaches to handling these situations, as well as acknowledging the righteous anger and hurt from the victim and his loyal fanbase at his weak public apology and cowardly behavior following the call out.
- Giving a platform to willing socialist feminists who are not cishet males to discuss patriarchy, rape culture, and what you can do about it.
- Removing all professional ties with the mod in question. This includes, but is not limited to removing their modship, removing financial ties with this mod, removing him from the production team, etc.
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Yea, it shows up a bit on the far left too.
The belief that identity politics are a way to split up and divide people, and to distract the lower classes. Where they should instead be focusing on class struggle and capitalism.
I think another way to phrase it would be, focusing on pc-culture and that kind of stuff, holds back real socialist movements.
It feels like the opposite of intersectionality.
I don't follow any anti-idpol people and I don't agree with the mindset, so what I said was probably a grotesque strawman, but whatever.
Nevermind, Messofanego got you with the hbomb stuff.
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A problem that Destiny himself points out is that now people of the "skeptic" community who might genuinely not be alt-right have financial interests in what they built now.
People have built their patreons/subcribers on top of primarily anti-feminist anti-Sarkeesian videos. That's what got people there.
They have built their audience completely on the basis of "look how the regressive left is being hyprocrites re: muslims and so on".
They can't back away now without taking a money hit even if they honestly wanted to and I think most of them don't really, because someone like literally nazist Richard Spencer says you are a good first step torwards literal white ethnostate and they either ignore it completely or rationalize it in ten million ways.
A nazist say "people, please watch this person" and you are not capable of going for 10 seconds: ".......maybe we're the baddies"?
They are an echo chamber now who caters to neonazis most of the time. I can't read people's minds to know if that was on purpose or not, but there it is.
And it's not releasing one or two videos saying "maybe who knows jeez nazism might be bad, maybe, i'm saying maybe, please don't unsubscribe" won't cut it.
You are increasingly walking like a duck and quacking like a duck while other ducks are telling people to watch your videos because you are entertaining. One would be worried at this point you might be a duck instead of quacking louder.
I wish people like Sargon would openly denounce the nazis. However sharing an opinion with nazi is not necessarily a bad thing, unless that opinion is of course a nazi opinion. If that makes any sense. Again I think Sargon and his ilk needs to grow a spine and make a stand here. Is he a nazi, alt-right or a lefty? I can't really tell but it feels like he might be a liberal who just really likes money and is willing to be disingenuous to get it.
When Sargon was on the Drunken Peasants podcast they asked him about his opinion on climate change and he refused to comment on it. Probably because he knew his right-wing fanbase would have a problem with him admitting that climate change is a thing. It's embarrassing.
That's a hell of a downplay of the whole thing.
You do not share an opinion of the nazis as in "Hitler was a vegetarian" or "nazi german was in favor of public healthcare", you are dedicating almost entirely your work to attacking shared enemies, you share the same rhetoric concerning minorities that they are whiners who are cheating through affirmative action, you spread the same propaganda about how Europe is almost a sharia state and so muslims are all a threat to you, what women should be, what the ideal "wester culture" should be, so on and so on.
Shaun makes good videos showing how many of these talking points are straight out of very racist websites and circles, all done in this style of "screenshot the title of the article and pretend like we are dealing with reality and serious studies".
Anyone have some point of agreement with everyone else, but the degree to which the "liberal centrist" of the skeptic community is alligned with the alt-right in every way that matters should raise a big flag that goes beyond coincidence.
That post about hbomb is out of date since the accused has since been completely expunged from his Discord and all involvement in his videos, it's also not accurate at all since the Discord mods let people talk about it freely and still do after he made the apology, he even let people PM him about it and he gave personalised responses to people that asked about it. The subreddit mods, on the other hand, went in and screencapped people without permission and took stuff completely out of context to make things seem worse than they actually were.
A lot of the people I follow don't talk about that thankfully. I know there are a lot of wolves in sheeps clothing on this side of the political spectrum. I actually live in Europe and I laugh at the idea that it's almost a sharia state. That's so over the top it causes more harm than good. Both in how it contributes to racism against Muslims and prevents us from looking at the real issues in Muslim communities that come from the problematic parts of their faith.
I will always call the people who spout that shit out when I see. Like I said I unfollowed Sargon because I got tired of his bullshit. I agree with you here.
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Nah, I don't think anyone has mentioned him yet. Thanks for the recommendation, threw him up in the op.
Grats on unfollowing Sargon buddy.
Sounds like you didn't get a great impression of Destiny from that clip earlier in the page. Have you tried one of his debates?
Alt-right and nazis are a part of the same group and many downright nazis use it as a less stigmatized label of themselves to give themselves more legitimacy/less scrutiny in the public eye. No reason to make much of a distinction between the two. Even if not all alt-right people aren't murderous/violent shitstains of humanity, they are exactly the kind of people who would look the other way if/when the more aggressive, violent nazis do their shit.
The only real distinction is between "alt-light" and alt right Neo-Nazi fascist sympathiser types, alt-light dudes are just on the MAGA Trump bandwagon and aren't really true believers in the same way the others are in regards to ethnostate malarky and hating Jews and other groups they deem subhuman
Not yet but I like listening to debates so I'll have to check some out.
People are taking issue with the fact the speakers and the organization are getting paid with none of the money going to leftist efforts/causes.
"This event will not be a debate, but rather a conversation between these three ladies."
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I know that Contra's and other similar Youtuber's fans don't want to see them interacting with people who don't acknowledge or respect their existence, which I can understand, but I think it's obviously Contra's decision.
Basing this on similar stuff that's come up in the past.
Blair White is terrible.
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Contrapoints has really been losing me lately. Tweets like this are starting to become common place.
She's been really pushing back against anyone from the left that criticizes her. First it was the situation where she was criticized for doing the profile piece with the transphobic writer.
She did apologize but still the tone of her posts was when I first noticed that she tends to feel like a pariah, a leftist that feels more comfortable engaging with the right.
And now her agreeing to a ticketed event with transphobes and racists that will benefit them financially. Add that to the fact that she has been sounded legitimately depressed as she talks about drinking herself to sleep and not being useful beyond engaging with the alt-right, centrist, rationalist folks. And it just doesn't seem like she is in a healthy place. The Laci Green, Shoe, Blaire, June types are smelling blood in the water because they are routinely there to lick her wounds and agree with her that her leftist fans are shit and hurting her, and want her to come hang with them and "discuss" the issues with them.
She says she hears the argument that she is being manipulated by these people and that some people are worriedabout her becoming the next Laci Green but I dunno, I still don't really get why she is getting so comfy there. Especially after she beats herself up for not debating them particularly well.
But I guess this is her brand and what she wants to do with her platform the most.
She's been really pushing back against anyone from the left that criticizes her. First it was the situation where she was criticized for doing the profile piece with the transphobic writer.
She did apologize but still the tone of her posts was when I first noticed that she tends to feel like a pariah, a leftist that feels more comfortable engaging with the right.
And now her agreeing to a ticketed event with transphobes and racists that will benefit them financially. Add that to the fact that she has been sounded legitimately depressed as she talks about drinking herself to sleep and not being useful beyond engaging with the alt-right, centrist, rationalist folks. And it just doesn't seem like she is in a healthy place. The Laci Green, Shoe, Blaire, June types are smelling blood in the water because they are routinely there to lick her wounds and agree with her that her leftist fans are shit and hurting her, and want her to come hang with them and "discuss" the issues with them.
She says she hears the argument that she is being manipulated by these people and that some people are worriedabout her becoming the next Laci Green but I dunno, I still don't really get why she is getting so comfy there. Especially after she beats herself up for not debating them particularly well.
But I guess this is her brand and what she wants to do with her platform the most.
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Apologies it was a contra vid, talking about White's interview with one of those alt-right people. Can't find it right now...but damn..
It was my first exposure to White and she can fuck right off
Don't see the problem with the Contrapoints thing. People need to just let her live her life. This trend of looking to police every aspect of people's lives is such a poison on the left, you see it with people being judged for who they're friends with, to who they speak at events with all the way down to the minutiae of scouring twitter likes for some type of wrongdoing. There's too many people now who spend an unhealthy amount of time looking for reasons to purge people from their particular in group, it's hardly a surprise when somebody like Contrapoints would prefer to spend time with people who don't surveil her every move for a reason to shame her.
Eh, I think it's fine and healthy to hold people to standards. It's something we don't do enough of socially and culturally, and I'm confident that that's played a big role in how we got to Trump - you know, "friends don't discuss religion/politics."
But they should. They really really should. And we should discuss them with our families. We should reinforce our values and morals, and yes, draw some thick lines in the sand. I don't associate with regressives or Nazis, period, and I'm pretty adamant that artists and critics I follow don't either or I stop following them.
That said, context is everything. I trust Contra based on the effort she puts into her work and the quality I've observed. (I also feel I'm a good judge of character, but that's me.) I really don't think speaking at one conference is the end of the world, and I sympathize with Contra bending under the weight of suddenly being this very prominent transperson that people feel has a responsibility to represent that community in a certain way. But the thing is, people have a right to their agency. Contra is a person, not a mascot or an elected representative. She didn't ask for the responsibility people are ascribing to her, she has a right to reject it, and I'd say the same to any minority in a similar position*. And if her followers can't handle that, then they might have to just split from her. That sucks, but that's how it goes.
(*= I make that point as a black guy, with a disability on top of it. Just want to note that, haha.)
But they should. They really really should. And we should discuss them with our families. We should reinforce our values and morals, and yes, draw some thick lines in the sand. I don't associate with regressives or Nazis, period, and I'm pretty adamant that artists and critics I follow don't either or I stop following them.
That said, context is everything. I trust Contra based on the effort she puts into her work and the quality I've observed. (I also feel I'm a good judge of character, but that's me.) I really don't think speaking at one conference is the end of the world, and I sympathize with Contra bending under the weight of suddenly being this very prominent transperson that people feel has a responsibility to represent that community in a certain way. But the thing is, people have a right to their agency. Contra is a person, not a mascot or an elected representative. She didn't ask for the responsibility people are ascribing to her, she has a right to reject it, and I'd say the same to any minority in a similar position*. And if her followers can't handle that, then they might have to just split from her. That sucks, but that's how it goes.
(*= I make that point as a black guy, with a disability on top of it. Just want to note that, haha.)
There's a big difference between holding someone to a standard and trying to police someone's entire life under scrutiny and judging every single choice they make as a public figure. This type of response is always just horrible on the left, especially considering it's important to have these conversations.
I think there's more nuance to it than being "just horrible". Way more. That kind of all of nothing thinking is part of the problem here, too. Some of the responses to her on Twitter really are very polite and well-reasoned, and they bring this up.
Just flew through Shaun's backlog of vids and he's really made an impact. His is just the kind of debater I strive to be and in singular videos manages to completely dismantle the techniques and manipulations used by bigots, the alt right, neo Nazis etc. that they utilize to spin their narratives.
Shaun is very considerate of his content, it's really nice to see.
Yeah there's a lot to be said of having spare vids without even a face cam. Just the words, relevant articles and clips and not much other fluff. His consideration makes him very easy to digest.
Debating transphobes is pointless 99% of the time and Contra isn't even particularly good at debating them to begin with, her giving money to a right wing student group is also gross and she shouldn't encourage that unless some of the money also went to organisations which actually care about trans people
Man, being a transphobe is so good and obviously right that once you get there, you're 99% theirs.
We need to engage people, c'mon, this notion that these people are somehow special is causing way more harmj than good at this point.
Maybe the venue isn't the best, the financial side can also stink, but someone has to get out there and show people that these isn't as one-sided as it seems in their own heads.
Girl doing good work here and people are lambasting her for what? Being afraid that their awesomeness is so über that they will convert her and now she is 99% lost because that's how invincible they are?
I really dug that decrypting the Alt-right video by ContraPoints. I don't quite understand why she's getting some heat? Is it because she's doing a debate with a centrist?
She is going to a (ticketed) alt-right event, will get paid for telling to their faces what pieces of shit they are, yet people are afraid she is "normalizing" and "legitimizing" them or something.
They don't need her to be legitimized and normalized, nor to get rich out of dumb lost kids who pay conservatives to tell them that their skin color makes them awesome.
Get her out of the event and the only thing you have are transphobes patting themselves in the back with no one to provide a, you know, contra-point.
Debating with transphobes assumes we should treat transgender people as something worth being debated, which personally I don't think it is, we shouldn't need to debate transphobes in order to make trans people valid, they already are. Not to mention these debates never change the transphobes minds so it seems kind of pointless, no?
You won't "change the mind" of someone who have financial stakes inb being a transphobe, but you don't debate Blair White expecting she will do a video saying "oh wow, I was wrong, so sorry", you do it to break the echo chamber that the other people who are watching is stuck in.
They don't have a magical curse or forbidden knowledge, they have bad information and talking points acquired from memes. Shine a tiny bit of light and you show how vacuous that are.
It's not pointless to shine a light on things that can only grow in the dark and in the muck of a conspiratory mindset that nobody is talking about it because (((they))) don't want you to know.
Letting them talk alone is not isolating. Letting them talk alone is letting it grow unchecked.
Human rights are not taken from granted. Not anymore. Pretending we can just wait for it all to go away isn't doing it.
You are still debating them, you're just not in the same room and so you can't directly answer to bullshit nor target their audience.
it's important to fight the narrative that debates doesn't happen because of a conspiracy theory where political correctness is trying to hide things from you. Look at the Blaire White video posted here.
The trans community is very well aware of its history with prostitution, why, it being the only job that society allows them to operate as its dirty little secret, but she can rephrase it as "trans are sluts and they are hiding it from you".
Their entire conspiratory mindset is "you don't hear our side because they are hiding the truth because they want to fuck you over. Go out there, stomp on them, show that debate don't happen because they are nimwits doing nothing of value.
it's important to fight the narrative that debates doesn't happen because of a conspiracy theory where political correctness is trying to hide things from you. Look at the Blaire White video posted here.
The trans community is very well aware of its history with prostitution, why, it being the only job that society allows them to operate as its dirty little secret, but she can rephrase it as "trans are sluts and they are hiding it from you".
Their entire conspiratory mindset is "you don't hear our side because they are hiding the truth because they want to fuck you over. Go out there, stomp on them, show that debate don't happen because they are nimwits doing nothing of value.
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Why not both? Live debates allow oppertunities for the racist people to slip up(JonTron in the Destiny debate) Carefully crafted response videos to racist thoughts is also good, as it allows you to fully deconstruct an idea(something Shaun and Contra do) Both serve a purpose in combating racist ideas. It seems to me that Contra also wants to get into live debates more, we should be supportive of her doing this. She will probably mess up a few times but as long as she learns and is able to do better in future debates it is overall a good thing.
I feel divided about this event, in one point If contra changes the mind of one person there i think its already great, but in my experience with left x right debates, its Just fight and each Side cheering their own group, and in an Alt right event there's no one to cheer for your, they invited for two reasons 1- to sound democratic "we are hearing your Side," 2- to be the scapegoat of the left in the event.
Since she's there, she Will have to achieve Nirvana, because you are alone with everyone that disagree with you and might be disrespectful. Also depending of the altright event its good to have a bodyguard.
Since she's there, she Will have to achieve Nirvana, because you are alone with everyone that disagree with you and might be disrespectful. Also depending of the altright event its good to have a bodyguard.
Could be worse, the event Contra is going to seems pretty tame compared to the event Destiny has said he probably will.
https://www.kilroyevent.com/featuredSpeakers.php
https://www.kilroyevent.com/featuredSpeakers.php
It still bothers me a lot since it's going to be these douchebags that get money from the ticket sales https://www.ubyssey.ca/culture/free-speech-club/ they don't deserve it at all, just wish people on the left would highlight other people who do have worthwhile things to say and give them a platform instead of going into the den of people who don't think they're even human
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I uh, really hope Destiny goes, that event is like a full collection of all the worst people on Youtube. I honestly can't believe how many ridiculous people are showing.
People I know,
Blaire White
Sargon of Akkad
MundaneMatt
Dave Cullen
Bunty
SomeBlackGuy
Tim Pool
Nick Monroe
Roaming Millennial
Amazing Atheist
ChrisRayGun
Brittany Pettibone
Lauren Southern
Peter Sweden
Jeff Holiday
Andy Warski
Some others I believe I've seen on twitter
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Izzy Nobre is Brazil's "both sides". A while back, brazilian alt-right comedian who interviewed Kojima on his talk show, having almost none gaming experience to speak of, tried to kickstart a brazilian gamergate by pilling up and harassing a female reviewer who gave Cuphead 9/10 because co-op was too hectic in her opinion.
He started a campaign to ask her, literally, for her "gaming credentials".
Get it? Guy who never plays videogames targets female professional reviewer for not being a "true gamer", which we all know is dog whistle for "woman, know thy place, get away, you are not welcome".
Some time later, this same guy gets invited to host a brazillian gaming show (no doubt fueled by shit like this) and the girl gets reasonably frustrated that someone who tried to architect a harassment campaign against her is getting rewarded professionally for this. So she goes: "it doesn't matter wheter he plays or not, what matters is that he represents nothing" or something.
So sir Izzy Nobre does his hot take on the issue saying to her "how can you treat him the way he treated you? Isn't that unfair? Look at how both sides are so wrong!" completely tone deaf to the whole thing, not attempting to contact her and ask for a clarification even when his social media footprint is much larger, and while discussing the harassment campaign against her still throws in stuff like "but I am told that in the gaming community, it is common to ask reviewers to have a set bar of skill, so I don't know, maybe what happened to her is normal in that community", again, completely tone deaf to the blatant sexism operating right in front of everyone's eyes.
So I bet he will go there and throw a bone like "well, I disagree with you neo-nazis, but you are all such wonderful open-minded people and I love you very much, thank you all very much, I love you, you are great, I will stay here and not question one single horrible thing you all say". And to tie to another subject, is what I expect will be the opposite of what Contra will do.
If, in the end, Contra end up being just a nodding head, then I'll agree with y'all. But passive nodding and "ok, it's your opinion and both sides" is what i expect from "mr Nobre".
(but tbh, I imagine if he would read this, he would be upset because he also is getting some hate online because a somewhat influentiual alt-right musician decided to throw hate at him, so he would read this and go "oh jeez, both sides hate me", but oh well, that's them woes of the both-siders)
He started a campaign to ask her, literally, for her "gaming credentials".
Get it? Guy who never plays videogames targets female professional reviewer for not being a "true gamer", which we all know is dog whistle for "woman, know thy place, get away, you are not welcome".
Some time later, this same guy gets invited to host a brazillian gaming show (no doubt fueled by shit like this) and the girl gets reasonably frustrated that someone who tried to architect a harassment campaign against her is getting rewarded professionally for this. So she goes: "it doesn't matter wheter he plays or not, what matters is that he represents nothing" or something.
So sir Izzy Nobre does his hot take on the issue saying to her "how can you treat him the way he treated you? Isn't that unfair? Look at how both sides are so wrong!" completely tone deaf to the whole thing, not attempting to contact her and ask for a clarification even when his social media footprint is much larger, and while discussing the harassment campaign against her still throws in stuff like "but I am told that in the gaming community, it is common to ask reviewers to have a set bar of skill, so I don't know, maybe what happened to her is normal in that community", again, completely tone deaf to the blatant sexism operating right in front of everyone's eyes.
So I bet he will go there and throw a bone like "well, I disagree with you neo-nazis, but you are all such wonderful open-minded people and I love you very much, thank you all very much, I love you, you are great, I will stay here and not question one single horrible thing you all say". And to tie to another subject, is what I expect will be the opposite of what Contra will do.
If, in the end, Contra end up being just a nodding head, then I'll agree with y'all. But passive nodding and "ok, it's your opinion and both sides" is what i expect from "mr Nobre".
(but tbh, I imagine if he would read this, he would be upset because he also is getting some hate online because a somewhat influentiual alt-right musician decided to throw hate at him, so he would read this and go "oh jeez, both sides hate me", but oh well, that's them woes of the both-siders)