Why does Sony seemingly not respect its own legacy and history?

Deleted member 249 · Nov 8, 2018

PlayStation has an amazing history and heritage. It has been a part of the gaming market for 24 years, which is the longest any company has continuously been in the console business other than Nintendo. There are entire generations of people, and areas of the world, where PlayStation is synonymous to video games. There are people who grew up on PlayStation, or PS2, or even PS3, given how long last generation was. There's a strong fondness and attachment to the brand, and to its history and legacy.

So why does it feel like Sony doesn't really care about any of it? Their actions over the last decade or so have indicated that they only care about their legacy when it can be quickly monetized, but otherwise don't really seem to care. For example:

The slapdash handling of the PlayStation Classic. Everything about the device, from the lineup of games, to the emulation (using open source PCSX, really?), to the emulation quality (50Hz in Europe...), to even the controllers on offer (non-DualShock ones) screams like it was hastily put together at the last minute to try and capitalize on the "Classic" console trend
PlayStation All Stars Battle Royale, which was given a shoestring budget, minimal marketing support, and used more to push marketing for upcoming first and third party games rather than to push the legacy of PlayStation as a brand and platform
Sony's utter lack of classic games on their digital platform. They led the way with PS Classics back on the PS3 and PSP. PS4 has nothing. Even the misguided PS2 Classics initiative has been largely abandoned at this point
Actual, public statements made by executives that hold old games in contempt ("I look at this and I think, why would anyone want to play this?")

The interesting thing here is that Sony's the only company that seems to be consistently failing on all fronts with regards to legacy. Nintendo of course has its problems, but it's a business that is built on leveraging familiarity and attachment to its legacy and brand. The NES Classic Mini and the SNES Classic Mini far surpassed the PlayStation Classic, with none of its problems. Smash of course is Smash. Nintendo holds its classic content in high regard.

Even Xbox is far more reverential of its legacy than PlayStation. The backwards compatibility initiative, and the drive to bring back classic fan facing brands and aspects of the Xbox brand that users are most familiar with: Inside Xbox, X0, Jump In, and so on- clearly, to me, indicates that the brand acknowledges and respects its history.

Why not PlayStation? I appreciate that they are forward facing, I would want it no other way. But why is that at the expense of acknowledging and respecting their heritage? Why do they seemingly hold their own history in such contempt?

passepied joe · Nov 8, 2018

Need a quick cashgrab to get from Nintendo's new market

I can't really be surprised when you have people saying embarrassing stuff like this

When we've dabbled with backwards compatibility, I can say it is one of those features that is much requested, but not actually used much. That, and I was at a Gran Turismo event recently where they had PS1, PS2, PS3 and PS4 games, and the PS1 and the PS2 games, they looked ancient, like why would anybody play this?

TheInfinityGauntlet · Nov 8, 2018

Why obsess with legacy when you're not even close to being in the grave

spam musubi · Nov 8, 2018

I mean, just this year we got SOTC remastered, are getting medievil next year, we got vib ribbon released recently and a parappa remaster, and there has been other stuff as well. I don't think Sony don't care about their legacy. They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead. Nintendo's business heavily relies on going back to old IP. It's just a different business model. Not doing what the nostalgia company does doesn't mean you don't care.

Deleted member 249 · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
I mean, just this year we got SOTC remastered, are getting medievil next year, we got vib ribbon released recently and a parappa remaster, and there has been other stuff as well. I don't think Sony don't care about their legacy. They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead.

I do address both these points in the OP.

Transistor · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
I mean, just this year we got SOTC remastered, are getting medievil next year, we got vib ribbon released recently and a parappa remaster, and there has been other stuff as well. I don't think Sony don't care about their legacy. They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead. Nintendo's business heavily relies on going back to old IP. It's just a different business model. Not doing what the nostalgia company does doesn't mean you don't care.

This is actually a really good way of putting it.

talkTOmyHAND · Nov 8, 2018

passepied joe said:
Need a quick cashgrab to get from Nintendo's new market

I can't really be surprised when you have people saying embarrassing stuff like this

You know, SEGA released their own mini retro consoles years ago.

Deleted member 32018 · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead.

LOL.

Aokiji · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
I mean, just this year we got SOTC remastered, are getting medievil next year, we got vib ribbon released recently and a parappa remaster, and there has been other stuff as well. I don't think Sony don't care about their legacy. They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead. Nintendo's business heavily relies on going back to old IP. It's just a different business model. Not doing what the nostalgia company does doesn't mean you don't care.

basically

spam musubi · Nov 8, 2018

Phantom Thief said:
I do address both these points in the OP.

I fundamentally disagree with your premise. Not focusing on nostalgia bait doesn't mean you don't care. It's just the norm for most gaming companies. You're framing the argument with an assumption and I just don't agree with the assumption.

angel · Nov 8, 2018

They are surprised anyone would want to play old games, until it's time to hype up a remaster.

citrusred · Nov 8, 2018

Transistor said:
This is actually a really good way of putting it.

No its not. It doesn't address the OP at all.

Deleted member 249 · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
I fundamentally disagree with your premise. Not focusing on nostalgia bait doesn't mean you don't care. It's just the norm for most gaming companies. You're framing the argument with an assumption and I just don't agree with the assumption.

I don't say they should focus on nostalgia bait. I say that when you are actually attempting to pander to nostalgia, do it well instead of with a cashgrab.

Lant_War · Nov 8, 2018

talkTOmyHAND said:
You know, SEGA released their own mini retro consoles years ago.

Still, the PS Mini wouldn't exist if Nintendo's Minis didn't sell spectacularly well

Jawbreaker · Nov 8, 2018

Yeah, I agree. It's something that really bothers me about Sony. It's like they're completely tone deaf regarding their classic titles and legacy. They treat it like a haphazard business venture, tepidly dipping their toes to test the waters at the expense of their core fans and legacy, instead of delivering quality products that show some reverence for the history of their platform.

At least the MediEvil remake looks like it had some love put into it.

famikon · Nov 8, 2018

GarthLordOfTheSith · Nov 8, 2018

I just don't understand why ps1 and PS2 games can't be played on PS4. Hell PS1 games can run on every single Sony platform before it.

Junker_2747 · Nov 8, 2018

I see the point brought up of "Parappa and Medievil are getting remasters" but thats generally as far as they go?

You don't see Sony making sequels to Ape Escape, Jak or Parappa anymore. They definitely have a 'Type' as far as the games they make these days go

get2sammyb · Nov 8, 2018

To counter your point, what about Shadow of the Colossus, a superb remake which launched this year? Ratchet & Clank, the PS2 game, was also brilliantly remade. What about their close partnership with Activision to bring back Crash and Spyro in the right way? What about what they're doing with MediEvil? What about when they brought back Vib-Ribbon just because Layden thinks it's cool? What about PlayStation Underground, a fan-facing brand which Sony brought back? What about trailers like this, which show they recognise their legacy? What about all the merchandising they've started to lean into this generation? What about the retro PSone and PS2 themes you can get for the PS4? What about the anniversary console designs they've released? What about what they did with WipEout, not only remastering it but also completely re-imagining it in VR? What about how they took God of War, re-imagined it, and brought it back in a way that matters in 2018?

Heck, there are only two main PlayStation consoles without any form of backwards compatibility, and one of them is the first they ever made.

I think you're being harsh cherry-picking a trio of bad examples. They definitely care, and the Jim Ryan quote that everyone talks about is constantly taken out of context to suit an agenda.

potentialtodisplease · Nov 8, 2018

You say the last point like there have been many comments, and then only list one comment. A rando fighting game just might not be what Sony is good at making IDK. I too think it deserves another chance though. As for BC yes Sony sucks hard and mightily in that area.

AegonSnake · Nov 8, 2018

Fuck the past. Lets focus on the future.

Thats what Sony is doing. they have made some of the best games of this gen. Thats what matters.

passepied joe · Nov 8, 2018

talkTOmyHAND said:
You know, SEGA released their own mini retro consoles years ago.

Big difference between letting a no name manufacturer release a cheap TV plug in console with some of your games vs making your own and aiming for a much higher standard. Let's not act like the PlayStation Classic wasn't made to compete with Nintendo's offerings.

Psamtik · Nov 8, 2018

I often find myself daydreaming about Sony putting half the effort into their back catalog that Microsoft has put into theirs, and it's a real bummer that they haven't.

Nintendo · Nov 8, 2018

They do respect their legacy, unless you call reselling the same old games over and over again respecting the legacy.

ThisThingIsUseful · Nov 8, 2018

steviejd1 said:
LOL.

Not seeing the lol? I don't think he said anything untrue, but I don't think that's a knock against Nintendo's stellar work.

Nintendo relies on their legacy and old IPs tremendously, but they're good at going different directions (Breath of the Wild, Mario 64 vs. Galaxy vs. Odyssey, Super Metroid vs. Metroid Prime), and while they create new IPs, they don't really create big new IPs with the same frequency.

It does seem like different strategies, but I don't think either are bad and both are positive contributors to the industry.

Champion · Nov 8, 2018

Vita
PsTV
PSVR
PlayStation Classic

.... there's a trend here.

Transistor · Nov 8, 2018

citrusred said:
No its not. It doesn't address the OP at all.

In a way it does, though. The vast amount of Sony's legacy was third party games, where with Nintendo it was first party games, so they can hold onto their legacy longer. Sony has been revisiting some of those first party hits recently, and will hopefully do so in the future, too. However, they don't need to. They're making gangbusters with their newer IPs and hardware. Hell, do we all honestly think that Microsoft would have still gone in and done the whole BC thing had they not been getting beaten pretty hard in the market?

Wise · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
I mean, just this year we got SOTC remastered, are getting medievil next year, we got vib ribbon released recently and a parappa remaster, and there has been other stuff as well. I don't think Sony don't care about their legacy. They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead. Nintendo's business heavily relies on going back to old IP. It's just a different business model. Not doing what the nostalgia company does doesn't mean you don't care.

Excellent post. What I do really want is backwards compatibility though and hopefully, we get that next gen. I love backwards compatibility on the XB1

Dougieflesh · Nov 8, 2018

They could definitely put in a little more effort on their nostalgia cash grabs, as well as letting us get access to our digital Playstation classic games. Hopefully they do for PS5.

Captain Tuttle · Nov 8, 2018

I have no data to back this up but my assumption is that Sony feels there's no money in it or at least not enough money Opportunity cost basically

Deleted member 249 · Nov 8, 2018

ThisThingIsUseful said:
Not seeing the lol? I don't think he said anything untrue, but I don't think that's a knock against Nintendo's stellar work.

Nintendo relies on their legacy and old IPs tremendously, but they're good at going different directions (Breath of the Wild, Mario 64 vs. Galaxy vs. Odyssey, Super Metroid vs. Metroid Prime), and while they create new IPs, they don't really create big new IPs with the same frequency.

It does seem like different strategies, but I don't think either are bad and both are positive contributors to the industry.

The implication that Nintendo does nothing new is tiresome and fanboyish, and honestly does not contribute to discussion.

Nintendo said:
They do respect their legacy, unless you call reselling the same old games over and over again respecting the legacy.

This is a terrible post.

spam musubi · Nov 8, 2018

Phantom Thief said:
I don't say they should focus on nostalgia bait. I say that when you are actually attempting to pander to nostalgia, do it well instead of with a cashgrab.

Again though, Nintendo have a higher standard for this because it's a more important part of their business model. There is no industry standard for retro consoles, there are very few of them and most are by Nintendo. So holding Sony up to the standard set by a company that heavily focuses on nostalgia isn't a fair comparison. Of course they're not going to be as good at it as Nintendo, who have spent 3 generations emulating and re-selling nes/snes games. They've done this enough times to figure it out.

Mr.Deadshot · Nov 8, 2018

Because they focus on delivering new games and experiences first and digress in nostalgia second. As it should be.
Sony also seems the only of the big three that constantly tries to implement new AAA-IPs instead of sticking to 3-4 core IPs.

Damn Silly · Nov 8, 2018

As you've pointed out, in the words of their man Jim Ryan: "why would anybody play this?"

Honestly though, I'm not quite sure at all.

Transistor · Nov 8, 2018

Dougieflesh said:
They could definitely put in a little more effort on their nostalgia cash grabs, as well as letting us get access to our digital Playstation classic games. Hopefully they do for PS5.

I have a real feeling we'll see PS1 / PS2 / PS3 / PS4 BC with the PS5.

The real question is if they'll allow disc-based BC or only PS store downloads.

Alent · Nov 8, 2018

Seems like most of Sony's old nostalgia legacy stuff is in the hands of third parties now. They have never really cultivated their first party stuff to the same extent Nintendo has, so it would be more difficult to get those classic games back. Most of Sony's first party stuff now stars a generic white dude, which while sells incredibly well, isn't really very memorable from a cult/design POV. They need to push their Japanese side harder (give us more Kat).

Deleted member 32018 · Nov 8, 2018

ThisThingIsUseful said:
Nintendo relies on their legacy and old IPs tremendously, but they're good at going different directions (Breath of the Wild, Mario 64 vs. Galaxy vs. Odyssey, Super Metroid vs. Metroid Prime), and while they create new IPs, they don't really create big new IPs with the same frequency.

And Sony isn't with Gran Turismo, Uncharted, God of War etc?

Vela · Nov 8, 2018

Ryo · Nov 8, 2018

Captain Tuttle said:
I have no data to back this up but my assumption is that Sony feels there's no money in it or at least not enough money Opportunity cost basically

Probably

Phendrift · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
I mean, just this year we got SOTC remastered, are getting medievil next year, we got vib ribbon released recently and a parappa remaster, and there has been other stuff as well. I don't think Sony don't care about their legacy. They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead. Nintendo's business heavily relies on going back to old IP. It's just a different business model. Not doing what the nostalgia company does doesn't mean you don't care.

I mean, Nintendo publishes just as many or more new games than Sony each year, so I don't really think this is it.

OPs not talking about Sont simply not doing what Nintendo does, it's stuff like the PS Classic being an easy cash grab, removing backwards compatibility plus the comments about "why would anyone want to play this?" like, wtf. Of course they don't have to do as much nostalgia stuff as Nintendo, no one does, but I don't think that's what he's saying

Deleted member 249 · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
Again though, Nintendo have a higher standard for this because it's a more important part of their business model. There is no industry standard for retro consoles, there are very few of them and most are by Nintendo. So holding Sony up to the standard set by a company that heavily focuses on nostalgia isn't a fair comparison. Of course they're not going to be as good at it as Nintendo, who have spent 3 generations emulating and re-selling nes/snes games. They've done this enough times to figure it out.

There are many classic consoles in the industry, in fact people bring them up all the time to point out Nintendo didn't invent them.
Nintendo just has done them best.

Zukkoyaki · Nov 8, 2018

Most PS1 nostalgia IPs are owned by third parties. That's a pretty big reason why.

tatwo · Nov 8, 2018

To me PS1 controller is the one without sticks.

Huey · Nov 8, 2018

Agreed - using Microsoft as the model for respecting your history with its absolutely outstanding backwards compatibility methodology (and specifically not Nintendo with an abandoned virtual console concept and a completely inadequate mini console strategy), Sony has a huge amount of improvements to do in the next generation. I would love to see a new console with all-generations disc/software based compatibility. If that needs to be downloaded optionally as software as an extra charge for each generation, I'd be ok with that to offset costs, but it's got to be better than PS4 has been. The OG PS3 was amazing - played all PS1 and PS2 discs - and then it's just been a slow slide backwards into nothing.

Also, to those pointing out remakes, that's really not what the OP is talking about. We're talking about respecting your existing catalogue enough to showcase the original games on new consoles.

casiopao · Nov 8, 2018

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
Why obsess with legacy when you're not even close to being in the grave

AegonSnake said:
Fuck the past. Lets focus on the future.

Thats what Sony is doing. they have made some of the best games of this gen. Thats what matters.

Maybe because majority of ps biggest fans also dont give a F toward their legacy too like this 2?

Deleted member 4093 · Nov 8, 2018

nynt9 said:
I mean, just this year we got SOTC remastered, are getting medievil next year, we got vib ribbon released recently and a parappa remaster, and there has been other stuff as well. I don't think Sony don't care about their legacy. They just don't rely on it as heavily as Nintendo do, because they're good at putting out new stuff instead. Nintendo's business heavily relies on going back to old IP. It's just a different business model. Not doing what the nostalgia company does doesn't mean you don't care.

Sony cant rely on their old IP thats why they dont. They dont know how to make games that age well. Nintendo makes new games and experiences with old IP. That said, the term new IP dont really mean jack shit if it plays like a bunch of other games.

casiopao · Nov 8, 2018

Nintendo said:
They do respect their legacy, unless you call reselling the same old games over and over again respecting the legacy.

This post by that username is easily the greatest irony lol.

PSqueak · Nov 8, 2018

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
Why obsess with legacy when you're not even close to being in the grave

Because there is a lot of money in allowing people to pay you for playing games that are getting harder to play in their original form?

Nintendo and Microsoft understood this. Sega understands this. Capcom understands this. Fucking GoG understands this.

Plus, preservation of the games is important, finding out that KH1 had to be REBUILT ENTIRELY FROM SCRATCH because the source was lost is a scary thing, making old games available in modern platforms is an excellent way of preservation.

Deleted member 249 · Nov 8, 2018

Guys, this is not about new IP versus old IP. That's not the point. This:

Phendrift said:
OPs not talking about Sont simply not doing what Nintendo does, it's stuff like the PS Classic being an easy cash grab, removing backwards compatibility plus the comments about "why would anyone want to play this?" like, wtf. Of course they don't have to do as much nostalgia stuff as Nintendo, no one does, but I don't think that's what he's saying

HueyFreeman said:
Also, to those pointing out remakes, that's really not what the OP is talking about. We're talking about respecting your existing catalogue enough to showcase the original games on new consoles.

Jawbreaker said:
Yeah, I agree. It's something that really bothers me about Sony. It's like they're completely tone deaf regarding their classic titles and legacy. They treat it like a haphazard business venture, tepidly dipping their toes to test the waters at the expense of their core fans and legacy, instead of delivering quality products that show some reverence for the history of their platform.

This is the point.

Apex88 · Nov 8, 2018

angel said:
They are surprised anyone would want to play old games, until it's time to hype up a remaster.

What remasters are Sony hyping up? The only ones I can really think of are some PS3 era titles like The Uncharted Collection. I personally believe this was done to bring Cell era titles into the X86 world......with all the benefits that come with this move, in terms of PS5 backwards compatibility, PSNow downloads etc.

For PSONE/PS2 era titles full remakes like SOTC, Ratchet & Medieval, offer far greater value to me than backwards compatibility. Even the best of this era's 3D titles feel broken by modern standards. It's a very different situation to 2D gaming, particularly pixel art.

Why does Sony seemingly not respect its own legacy and history?

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