Bernie Sanders: White People Uncomfortable About Voting for Black Candidates Not Necessarily Racist

okayfrog · Nov 8, 2018

Glory said:
And we still lost Senate seats.

So here's what you need to come to grips with-

Sens. Joe Donnelly of Indiana, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota and Claire McCaskill of Missouri all lost their seats to Republicans who campaigned as Trump allies. Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), is hanging to hopes of a recount turning things around.

What do you tell the racists of Indiana, North Dakota, Missouri, and Florida to get those seats back that hasn't been already said a million times on network television, Twitter, ERA, Huffington Post, etc. Because here's the thing: those seats are gone for the next SIX YEARS. What do you tell them to get their votes in 2020 to win the presidency?

Because quite frankly, progressives don't have the votes ourselves. It was proven that through all our yelling and screaming and protesting and people getting killed in streets of Charlottesville and the bombs sent out to Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, etc that there was no blue wave. You're going to have to reach across the aisle and get some racists to come and vote for our agenda. And if all that takes is not to call them racist, is that worth proper health care, proper gun control, etc.

The bottom line is this: If we're going take back the Senate and the Presidency, we're going to need the vote of racists. The 2016 Donald Trump election and the 2018 Senate losses have all proven that much. Otherwise, where are you getting the votes from Slayven?

I've been flip-flopping on this. Before this latest election, I was of the opinion that the more people out there, the more likely that Democrats would take it. But after this latest election, that doesn't seem to be the case in some areas. I think I may be on the same train you're on at the moment. Still unsure, though.
EDIT:

Particle Physicist said:
But you still have people excusing his behavior and wanting him to run.... and this is a fucking crazy comment waving away racism.

It definitely is waving away racism, but I don't find it that crazy in the sense that his end goal is getting more votes for the Democratic party and putting more progressive people in positions of power.

Slayven · Nov 8, 2018

El Bombastico said:
And sadly, so do the vast majority of white people.

Yeah well we know folks calling out their relatives for sending Obama wants to kill white people email chain letters is a non starter. But I wish the same people would continue to standback when folks are actually willing to take on an issue.

blakeseven · Nov 8, 2018

Glory said:
And we still lost Senate seats.

So here's what you need to come to grips with-

Sens. Joe Donnelly of Indiana, Heidi Heitkamp of North Dakota and Claire McCaskill of Missouri all lost their seats to Republicans who campaigned as Trump allies. Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), is hanging to hopes of a recount turning things around.

What do you tell the racists of Indiana, North Dakota, Missouri, and Florida to get those seats back that hasn't been already said a million times on network television, Twitter, ERA, Huffington Post, etc. Because here's the thing: those seats are gone for the next SIX YEARS. What do you tell them to get their votes in 2020 to win the presidency?

Because quite frankly, progressives don't have the votes ourselves. It was proven that through all our yelling and screaming and protesting and people getting killed in streets of Charlottesville and the bombs sent out to Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, etc that there was no blue wave. You're going to have to reach across the aisle and get some racists to come and vote for our agenda. And if all that takes is not to call them racist, is that worth proper health care, proper gun control, etc.

The bottom line is this: If we're going take back the Senate and the Presidency, we're going to need the vote of racists. The 2016 Donald Trump election and the 2018 Senate losses have all proven that much. Otherwise, where are you getting the votes from Slayven?

Laying with racists when the Democrats got more votes both in 2016 (>3m) and 2018 (>12m). What a strategy.

teacup · Nov 8, 2018

And this is why Bernie is a bad idea.

I read on another forum that people also need to stop thinking in progressive vs. conservative in the dems camp. With the house you can afford to lose chunks of the country. With the Senate you can't. So run people who play to THOSE states- look at the wins in traditionally conservative states, you didn't run someone who would run up a marxist flag and drum up 'big' progressive issues- you run someone who wants to help the people there. You can do it. In Australia you have some green candidates starting to make movements in what were considered rural areas- Our green party is environmental but also extremely socially progressive. The rural areas don't give a fuck / are actively against the social aspect but also want their jobs/wages/livlihood (the environment) protected.

Also being 'scared' of black candidates is the worst takeaway to have from this- the two main ones who 'lost' are Florida and Georgia- both of which were so close that with an extra push by dems / a stop to gerrymandering / illegal voter suppression would mean HUGE dem wins.

STFU Bernie :/

Slayven · Nov 8, 2018

okayfrog said:
It definitely is waving away racism, but I don't find it that crazy in the sense that his end goal is getting more votes for the Democratic party and putting more progressive people in positions of power.

If i can't trust you to speak on my issues when running, why should I trust you to do things if you get in office? Shit works both ways.

Akira86 · Nov 8, 2018

Slayven said:
Yeah well we know folks calling out their relatives for sending Obama wants to kill white people email chain letters is a non starter. But I wish the same people would continue to standback when folks are actually willing to take on an issue.

Don't you badtalk my Nanna. Mammaw raised me and you don't have the right to say anything about that wonderful woman who incidentally hates niggers.

Papaw too.

Deleted member 36054 · Nov 8, 2018

Slayven said:
If i can't trust you to speak on my issues when running, why should I trust you to do things if you get in office? Shit works both ways.

Yep, he did it before and got his whooped as a result.

AstronaughtE · Nov 8, 2018

I regret voting for him in the primaries more and more. He should stay right where he is.

okayfrog · Nov 8, 2018

Big_Blue said:
Yep, he did it before and got his whooped as a result.

Yeah, I like Bernie Sanders and think he has a shot at the presidency. However, seeing as how he keeps saying things like this, if he did actually try again in 2020, I couldn't see him making it past the primaries, just like in 2016.

D i Z · Nov 8, 2018

Akira86 said:
Don't you badtalk my Nanna. Mammaw raised me and you don't have the right to say anything about that wonderful woman who incidentally hates niggers.

Papaw too.

But black folk are responsible for their gubment funding being cut.

Emmert · Nov 8, 2018

The racist jumped out.

But he's an old white guy so it's not too surprising.

gutter_trash · Nov 8, 2018

Black women are the most loyal voting block of the Democratic party, but loyalty has its limits when an outsider independent form Vermont swoops into the nomination race and starts saying this shit overlooking real Democrats.

Haze · Nov 8, 2018

A reminder that Bernie sanders is an old white guy

Super Corpse Soldier · Nov 8, 2018

Slayven said:
That only works on those predisposed to it

Fascism works in general for electoral politics. Its easy.

MinerArcaniner · Nov 8, 2018

So all 3 of the major contenders in 2016 were only fairweather friends at best, got it.

Slayven · Nov 8, 2018

Super Corpse Soldier said:
Fascism works in general for electoral politics. Its easy.

You are handwaving alot of stuff

The Adder · Nov 8, 2018

My oh my look how easy it is to get 'progressives' on board with racism. Just have their savior speak the words and they're ready to worship at his altar again knowing good and god damn well if this had come out of a Republican's mouth they wouldn't be doing all this hand wringing equivocation.

Not a surprise.

Schopenhauerian · Nov 8, 2018

chaostrophy said:
This is a good piece about the issues with identity politics from a leftist perspective, probably the best summary I've read. It doesn't advocate discarding that perspective entirely, just recognizing it has limits and should be balanced with class-based politics.

mael said:
[...]It's currentAffairs and they have never let me down so I'll read it[...]

mael said:
[...]That CurrentAffair article was a bit disingeneous.
Talking about Clinton's Crime Bill in the context of 2016 without talking about how Sanders voted for it and campaigned his reelection based on his vote while saying that somehow Sanders was the candidate of minorities when minorities pretty much preferred another candidate is really weird.

German Lopez took a closer look at that specific point (including a comparison of Sanders' record/rhetoric at the time with Clinton's), over at Vox: link. "...While the Clintons have defended the 1994 crime law until quite recently, Sanders was always careful to point out that he saw the law as a compromise — and regularly stated his concerns with mass incarceration..." But Sanders clearly could have voted against the 1994 crime bill (as he did in the case of 1991 crime bill) and simply added that he approved of some of the specific provisions in the 1994 bill (the Violence Against Women Act and the 10-year assault weapons ban). Instead, he voted for the 1994 bill, while saying that he disapproved of everything outside of those provisions (i.e., the Violence Against Women Act and a 10-year assault weapons ban). His 1994 vote remains highly problematic, whatever "clarifications" he may have issued, both before and after his vote.

Likewise, coming back to the topic, as noted earlier in the thread, even if we acknowledge the "nuance" Bernie was apparently attempting to capture, one of his specific statements was very clearly mistaken, and his "clarification" did not actually correct that mistake.

Clipjoint · Nov 8, 2018

It was clumsily stated, but it's pretty clear what Bernie was saying - that there was an extremely racist campaign run against Gillum and Abrams, and it cost them some votes from winnable white voters. The continuation of his point was that it will be easier for those people to vote for a POC next time around. I didn't take it as an excuse for racism - he's just saying those voters aren't lost and we shouldn't assume they'll never vote for a POC if they fell for the racist campaign this time around.

Now whether that's true or not is debatable, but he's essentially trying not to label them as "deplorables" the way Hillary did, which clearly alienated voters.

Opto · Nov 8, 2018

You can thread the needle of trying to win over diet racists without also alienating black voters.

Bernie has not taken this lesson

Veggen · Nov 8, 2018

Slayven said:
That only works on those predisposed to it

That's still handwaving their responsibility for their racist coverage built on fear.

Slayven · Nov 8, 2018

Opto said:
You can thread the needle of trying to win over diet racists without also alienating black voters.

Bernie has not taken this lesson

Beto talked about issue and not threw anyone under the bus

Ukraine · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
It was clumsily stated, but it's pretty clear what Bernie was saying - that there was an extremely racist campaign run against Gillum and Abrams, and it cost them some votes from winnable white voters. The continuation of his point was that it will be easier for those people to vote for a POC next time around. I didn't take it as an excuse for racism - he's just saying those voters aren't lost and we shouldn't assume they'll never vote for a POC if they fell for the racist campaign this time around.

Now whether that's true or not is debatable, but he's essentially trying not to label them as "deplorables" the way Hillary did, which clearly alienated voters.

He literally said that people who don't vote for someone because of skin color are not necessarily racist. He fucked up and no amount of word twisting will fix it.

Slayven · Nov 8, 2018

Veggen said:
That's still handwaving their responsibility for their racist coverage built on fear.

I am not, they do it because they know racists love it. Folks are trying to turn this into a chicken or the egg debate situation. When we absolutely know where it starts.

Opto · Nov 8, 2018

Slayven said:
Beto talked about issue and not threw anyone under the bus

Yes but Beto lost so he should have been more racist i guess

El Bombastico · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
It was clumsily stated, but it's pretty clear what Bernie was saying - that there was an extremely racist campaign run against Gillum and Abrams, and it cost them some votes from winnable white voters. The continuation of his point was that it will be easier for those people to vote for a POC next time around. I didn't take it as an excuse for racism - he's just saying those voters aren't lost and we shouldn't assume they'll never vote for a POC if they fell for the racist campaign this time around.

Now whether that's true or not is debatable, but he's essentially trying not to label them as "deplorables" the way Hillary did, which clearly alienated voters.

Just stop. We've already had one person banned trying to defend this bullshit.

excelsiorlef · Nov 8, 2018

The really funny thing, about his supporters saying this is showing that the's smart and shrewd, and that he's politicking for the 2020 showdown with Trump by trying to get some white folk on his side, is that his supporters are totally ignoring that you know to get to face Trump you kind have to win the primary, so even if this was the right thing to do (and it's bloody fucking not) doing it now shows how much this isn't any of that because only a total fucking moron would say shit to piss of the Black party base that has a huge say in who wins the Primary.... Trying to win over racist white people while insulting black folk is a pretty good away to get blown the fuck out... again.

Dude is horrendous at actually being a politician.

It's also really funny that Sanders is more comfortable putting Planned Parenthood and the HRC (not Clinton) on blast, or rich progrssives on blast, than racist white people

Tfritz · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
It was clumsily stated, but it's pretty clear what Bernie was saying - that there was an extremely racist campaign run against Gillum and Abrams, and it cost them some votes from winnable white voters. The continuation of his point was that it will be easier for those people to vote for a POC next time around. I didn't take it as an excuse for racism - he's just saying those voters aren't lost and we shouldn't assume they'll never vote for a POC if they fell for the racist campaign this time around.

Racist campaigns are evidently very successful for Republicans, so I'm not sure why they won't continue to run them in future elections or why these Nice White People Who Aren't Racist won't continue to fall for those campaigns in the future

Super Corpse Soldier · Nov 8, 2018

Slayven said:
That only works on those predisposed to it

Racist media creates more racists a makes existing racists even more racist than they were before.

Braaier · Nov 8, 2018

Bernie has said some questionable things about race. Add this to the list.

Slayven · Nov 8, 2018

Opto said:
Yes but Beto lost so he should have been more racist i guess

He was in texas, if he was in any other red state I bet he would have won and won early. He lose by 2.6%, folks were expecting a way bigger blowout

excelsiorlef · Nov 8, 2018

Also I'm pretty sure this is not the very first time all these white people have ever felt uncomfortable with the idea of a black politician wanting their vote, so that line was also stupid.

Florida and Georgia in 2018 didn't invent the anti-black racist political ad.

Veggen · Nov 8, 2018

Slayven said:
I am not, they do it because they know racists love it. Folks are trying to turn this into a chicken or the egg debate situation. When we absolutely know where it starts.

Yeah, it's the same reason they can't/couldn't stop covering Trump.

It's still a feedback loop and should be mitigated. Media accountability should be a thing.

Slayven · Nov 8, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Also I'm pretty sure this is not the very first time all these white people have ever felt uncomfortable with the idea of a black politician wanting their vote, so that line was also stupid.

Florida and Georgia in 2018 didn't invent the anti-black racist political ad.

Kemp was racist, lied, cheated and stole AND still barely beat Abrams.

Super Corpse Soldier · Nov 8, 2018

Slayven said:
Beto talked about issue and not threw anyone under the bus

Beto would have been such a top tier candidate if he didn't have to runnin a state that hadn't elected a democratic senator in 25 years. Like Ohio, I think he would have done better in Florida then Nelson I think. Like most places other Texas would have been a slam dunk. Pearls before swine as they say.

Clipjoint · Nov 8, 2018

Ukraine said:
He literally said that people who don't vote for someone because of skin color are not necessarily racist. He fucked up and no amount of word twisting will fix it.

In their minds, they don't think they are racists. They don't see themselves that way - that's what he's referring to. Everyone knows people like this. They exist in every culture and among minorities. Writing them off as a racist monolith helps win you internet points, but I don't fault him for wanting to engage them and help them improve.

Clipjoint · Nov 8, 2018

El Bombastico said:
Just stop. We've already had one person banned trying to defend this bullshit.

My fault, I thought this was a discussion board where people were encouraged to debate thoughts and ideas. I didn't realize I'd get banned for trying to contextualize a quote that is clearly being misconstrued. I guess I'll just have to take my ban then.

astro · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
In their minds, they don't think they are racists. They don't see themselves that way - that's what he's referring to. Everyone knows people like this. They exist in every culture and among minorities. Writing them off as a racist monolith helps win you internet points, but I don't fault him for wanting to engage them and help them improve.

No, he literally said "I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,"

This is the very definition of racism. What he said was very clear.

Clipjoint said:
My fault, I thought this was a discussion board where people were encouraged to debate thoughts and ideas. I didn't realize I'd get banned for trying to contextualize a quote that is clearly being misconstrued. I guess I'll just have to take my ban then.

It has not been misconstrued.

Cyanity · Nov 8, 2018

Welp, Sanders is cancelled

Clipjoint · Nov 8, 2018

Tfritz said:
Racist campaigns are evidently very successful for Republicans, so I'm not sure why they won't continue to run them in future elections or why these Nice White People Who Aren't Racist won't continue to fall for those campaigns in the future

It's not just white people. In Florida you can have Hispanics, Asians, Jews, and even other black people who think this way. These people don't see themselves as racists, but they are swayed by some inherent cultural or latent racism. Writing them off as being lost to the Republican party isn't the smart way to go. Engaging with them and helping them understand the world better is what's needed.

Ukraine · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
In their minds, they don't think they are racists. They don't see themselves that way - that's what he's referring to. Everyone knows people like this. They exist in every culture and among minorities. Writing them off as a racist monolith helps win you internet points, but I don't fault him for wanting to engage them and help them improve.

First of all you can say this about literally any type of racism. Even people wearing blackface sometimes don't know what the fuck they are doing. Second of all I didn't say anything about not engaging them. They should be engaged. In fact I would say that 90% of population have biases but most people know right from wrong and this is clearly wrong. It can be explained. And last of all Bernie is a dumbass because how fucking damaging his statement is. He basically said that it's OK to be racist instead of engaging those racists.

Sanjuro · Nov 8, 2018

I blame Vermont.

Clipjoint · Nov 8, 2018

astro said:
No, he literally said "I think you know there are a lot of white folks out there who are not necessarily racist who felt uncomfortable for the first time in their lives about whether or not they wanted to vote for an African-American,"

This is the very definition of racism. What he said was very clear.

It has not been misconstrued.

You left out the next part of the line, which is that next time they will be more willing to vote for an African-American. He is not excusing racism - he's saying we shouldn't give up on those people because they can be better.

astro · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
You left out the next part of the line, which is that next time they will be more willing to vote for an African-American. He is not excusing racism - he's saying we shouldn't give up on those people because they can be better.

No, there is no part left out of that sentence. It literally says what it says.

He's passing something off as not being racist, when it is.

Clipjoint · Nov 8, 2018

Ukraine said:
First of all you can say this about literally any type of racism. Even people wearing blackface sometimes don't know what the fuck they are doing. Second of all I didn't say anything about not engaging them. They should be engaged. In fact I would say that 90% of population have biases but most people know right from wrong and this is clearly wrong. It can be explained. And last of all Bernie is a dumbass because how fucking damaging his statement is. He basically said that it's OK to be racist instead of engaging those racists.

Point out to me where he said it's OK to be racist? That's exactly what I mean when I say you're purposely misconstruing what he said.

excelsiorlef · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
Point out to me where he said it's OK to be racist? That's exactly what I mean when I say you're purposely misconstruing what he said.

Actually what he said was it's not necessarily racist to not want to vote for a black person because of their skin colour.

stupei · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
You left out the next part of the line, which is that next time they will be more willing to vote for an African-American. He is not excusing racism - he's saying we shouldn't give up on those people because they can be better.

He could have said "racist people can learn to be less racist," but he didn't because he didn't want to acknowledge that they are in fact currently racist. Because he knows how much white people don't like even the specter of applying that awful R word to any white person and he fears losing the milquetoast white vote more than anything else since he caters to them not only as a senator of an incredibly white state but as his apparent primary strategy for Presidential campaigns.

Ukraine · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
Point out to me where he said it's OK to be racist? That's exactly what I mean when I say you're purposely misconstruing what he said.

Dude. It's LITERALLY IN THREAD TITLE. HE IS SAYING THAT RACISTS ARE NOT NECESSARILY RACIST. They are fucking racist. It's not ok!

Deleted member 283 · Nov 8, 2018

Clipjoint said:
You left out the next part of the line, which is that next time they will be more willing to vote for an African-American. He is not excusing racism - he's saying we shouldn't give up on those people because they can be better.

He does both. Him saying we shouldn't give up on these voters doesn't change the fact that he did excuse racism with the first line, saying something that something that's definitively racist (being uncomfortable with voting for a black candidate) isn't racist. These are not exclusive concepts, and the next part changes nothing, unlike what you're saying here.

Mona · Nov 8, 2018

Clusterdreams said:
A reminder that Bernie sanders is an old white guy

Clipjoint said:
My fault, I thought this was a discussion board where people were encouraged to debate thoughts and ideas.

you thought wrong

Bernie Sanders: White People Uncomfortable About Voting for Black Candidates Not Necessarily Racist

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