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Oct 25, 2017
9,205
Say I'm a home invader bent on burglarizing you. I've busted into your home, not knowing you were there. You wake up, grab your gun, and we spot each other in the living room.

I see that you have a gun in your hands. I am in your house. You have every right to defend your property from me with deadly force. You probably will, because you have a gun in your hands.

I am going to try to shoot you. I probably wouldn't have before. But now I need to.

If you have reasonable fear that you are going to be randomly targeted for murder, rape, maiming, or kidnapping, then it's reasonable to keep a gun for self-defense. But the most likely scenario is going to be the one I just described. And in that situation, as awful and unfair as it may be, you are endangering yourself by carrying a gun.

You are right that is unfair and awful. You are depending on the good nature of someone that has invaded your home! I'd rather go out with a fight than be subdued while they search the house and decided what to do with people that weren't expected to be in their own HOME.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
You are right that is unfair and awful. You are depending on the good nature of someone that has invaded your home! I'd rather go out with a fight than be subdued while they search the house and decided what to do with people that weren't expected to be in their own HOME.
The presence of guns is more likely to result in violence then they are to deter it. Again I know you dont care about stats (IE reality) but Im just going to continue picking at just how utterly wrong you are on this issue.
 

Bramblebutt

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
1,858
Most break-ins happen during the day, if memory serves, when no one is actually home for this very reason.

Frankly, the scenario you're both talking about hardly ever happens. Most gun owners wind up using their guns on themselves or they get used against themselves or their loved ones. That's why the old lady protecting herself with a gun always makes the news: because it never happens and that makes it newsworthy when it does. If it happened a lot it would never be on the news. Ever.

I realize it hardly ever happens, but it should be made clear that the most likely scenario for a justified use of a firearm in self defense as a civilian is made more dangerous by the presence of that very firearm.

You are right that is unfair and awful. You are depending on the good nature of someone that has invaded your home! I'd rather go out with a fight than be subdued while they search the house and decided what to do with people that weren't expected to be in their own HOME.

I don't know what to tell you. If you'd risk dying so you didn't have to suffer the indignity of being robbed, you need to think about what really matters more.
 

Anubis

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,392
You are right that is unfair and awful. You are depending on the good nature of someone that has invaded your home! I'd rather go out with a fight than be subdued while they search the house and decided what to do with people that weren't expected to be in their own HOME.
The fact of the matter is given the fickle nature of mental health, having access to a gun increases the likelihood of it being used nefariously. You remove the gun as a variable, and you are likely to survive and live a fulfilling life.
 

Ωλ7XL9

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,250
It was heart wrenching to watch the father of one of the victims breakdown. This has to stop, this has to stop!!
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,637
Say I'm a home invader bent on burglarizing you. I've busted into your home, not knowing you were there. You wake up, grab your gun, and we spot each other in the living room.

I see that you have a gun in your hands. I am in your house. You have every right to defend your property from me with deadly force. You probably will, because you have a gun in your hands.

I am going to try to shoot you. I probably wouldn't have before. But now I need to.

If you have reasonable fear that you are going to be randomly targeted for murder, rape, maiming, or kidnapping, then it's reasonable to keep a gun for self-defense. But the most likely scenario is going to be the one I just described. And in that situation, as awful and unfair as it may be, you are endangering yourself by carrying a gun.

To avoid the whole scenario completely how about getting a security system installed. I know they don't come as standard in the US like where I live but it's worth investing in. It's never an instance where I don't go to sleep without turning on the alarm.

Guns should be the last line of defence not the first.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,281
Y'all need to stop assuming people have morals.

My bro lost his father cuz someone robbed him. He gave up the goods. Motherfucker shot him anyway.
 

TheFireman

Banned
Dec 22, 2017
3,918
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.
 

Ozgiliath

Alt-Account
Member
Aug 13, 2018
653
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.

A a european, anytime i see a mass shooting thread or see it on twitter..my mind is numb on how many people die every time and yet nothing has been stopped and nothing has been done ever since.
 

StudioTan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,836
Shill, inbred, what else? I don't need to justify myself to anyone on here, but I voted straight down the line Democrat on Tuesday as did the majority of family and friends. And we are keeping our fucking guns. The end. This may shock some of you but it's not just evil white inbreds that hunt, work in law enforcement, prison guards, ex-military etc that would naturally lead to familiarity and ownership of firearms. By that seems to be the moronic narrative on here.

America in a nutshell right here. Hopefully one day you'll get to experience life in other civilized countries and learn there is no need to live like this. This is self perpetuating cycle of violence that is made worse by attitudes like yours. You guys need to fix your country.
 

honest_ry

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
4,288
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.

See one of the recent south park episodes.
 

bytesized

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,882
Amsterdam
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.
True although, on the other hand, the day we get a thread about the US doing something to ban guns then I'm sure it will move fast af.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
This is kind of terrible but I've been thinking about this a lot. Guns have been available forever in this country. In fact, in the past they didn't have background checks or waiting periods. And yet back in the50, 60,70,80s etc., you barely ever had mass shootings. And kids/school shootings just didn't happen. So what has changed?? It's because in the past people with severe mental problems largely lived in secured institutions. But now that they live at home and are rarely monitored, no care and may not take any medications, many end up in jail or prison. We have to fix our mental health crises and teach kids from day one conflict resolution.
 

Ramathevoice

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,930
Paris, France
The thread has moved away from the Borderline shooting over the past couple pages and into a broader gun control discussion, but I find this bit of information both relevant and unsurprising.

Thousand Oaks Gunman's High School Coach Speaks About Sexual Assault

NEWBURY PARK (CBSLA) — The Thousand Oaks shooter's high school track coach says that he assaulted her.

"I turned on the news and I was watching it and when they said his name my jaw just dropped," said Dominique Colell.

Colell says it happened during practice when someone found a phone and she was trying to figure out who it belonged to.

"Ian came up and started screaming at me that was his phone," said Colell. "He just started grabbing me. He groped my stomach. He groped my butt. I pushed him off me and said after that — 'you're off the team.' "

But Colell says she was encouraged by other coaches and the school to accept an apology to not ruin his future in the Marine Corps.

"I should have reported it then," said Colell.

And although she never would have predicted this, Colell says she doesn't believe this is just a case of PTSD. She says Long had issues long before he was ever a Marine.
 

Sgtpepper89

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,069
Sweden
This is kind of terrible but I've been thinking about this a lot. Guns have been available forever in this country. In fact, in the past they didn't have background checks or waiting periods. And yet back in the50, 60,70,80s etc., you barely ever had mass shootings. And kids/school shootings just didn't happen. So what has changed?? It's because in the past people with severe mental problems largely lived in secured institutions. But now that they live at home and are rarely monitored, no care and may not take any medications, many end up in jail or prison. We have to fix our mental health crises and teach kids from day one conflict resolution.

Looking at wikipedia over mass shootings in USA there has been a couple before this millenium too but im sure there is some link in how the villains chose and get inspired into certain methods from others and based on what they can easy access. Like in the US there is to easy to get hands on heavy weaponry and thats something other learned to copy.
In europe weve had several attacks with veichles instead, middle east has suicide bombers, I think China had several knife attacks etc.


Looking at the history of murders in US for the decades you describe I think more of all the crazy rapist/serial killers instead that seems to not be heard of as much now.
 

Deleted member 41271

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 21, 2018
2,258
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.

I used to comment these myself, but...what is there left to even say :(
 
Oct 28, 2017
265
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.

It's as common as the lotto numbers that appear on your tv screen at night. 13 dead appear on your screen and some might think "that's not a terrible number for today"

That's America - the only way to deal with it is to move country.
 

Bastables

Member
Dec 3, 2017
367
uhh...is everyone just ignoring the "probable PTSD in active vet who had mental health struggles because the gov't functionally abandoned most of the Afghanistan and Iraq vets after they got back" part?
We've had several industrial wars where PTSD was hardly treated, or not even recognised, yet mass shooting was never a common outcome. You get increase in domestic violence, sucide, substance abuse, but not waves of mass shootings.
 

Ramathevoice

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,930
Paris, France
We've had several industrial wars where PTSD was hardly treated, or not even recognised, yet mass shooting was never a common outcome. You get increase in domestic violence, sucide, substance abuse, but not waves of mass shootings.
Given the reports of past sexual misconduct, I'm now about 95% certain that the guy's gonna turn out to have been some kind of incel or something along those lines.
 

Slime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,971
Was this posted?

Authorities have identified a Facebook post believed to have been made by the shooter around the time of the attack, according to a law enforcement official familiar with the ongoing investigation.

In it, the writer says: "I hope people call me insane... (laughing emojis).. wouldn't that just be a big ball of irony? Yeah.. I'm insane, but the only thing you people do after these shootings is 'hopes and prayers'.. or 'keep you in my thoughts'... every time... and wonder why these keep happening..."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/08/us/thousand-oaks-gunman/index.html
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,053
Shill, inbred, what else? I don't need to justify myself to anyone on here, but I voted straight down the line Democrat on Tuesday as did the majority of family and friends. And we are keeping our fucking guns. The end. This may shock some of you but it's not just evil white inbreds that hunt, work in law enforcement, prison guards, ex-military etc that would naturally lead to familiarity and ownership of firearms. By that seems to be the moronic narrative on here.

Why are gun nuts so needlessly aggressive and full of spite and blood lust?
 

Barnak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,058
Canada
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.

Mass shootings have become as common in the US as bomb killings in the Middle East. Not surprising that it's not as huge of a talking point as before.
It's sad, but the US government(and a lot of its population) would rather have that than make stricter gun laws, so what are you gonna do?
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
Absolutely not, places outside of here always look much worse imo.

As an American living abroad I will never move back with my family with the USA in its current state.

Things are just going to get much worse at this rate. If the world doesn't actually manage to curb climate change trends I think America will be one of the first societies to collapse, as a result of rampant racism, classism, and of course a goddamn ridiculous number of guns in circulation.

Basically Octavia Butler's depiction of America in her novel Parable of The Sower.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Europe worse than America :thinkingemoji:
I grew up listening to throw away news segments on the radio about murders and wars over there. Bombings, and all the that mixed in with the morning weather. Now it's acid attacks, suicide bombers and people plowing people with cars.

So yeah both have tragic things that happen on their land, everything else I rather live in America. That's my opinion, you will have yours because you were born and raised where you're.
 

JimNastics

Member
Jan 11, 2018
1,383
I grew up listening to throw away news segments on the radio about murders and wars over there. Bombings, and all the that mixed in with the morning weather. Now it's acid attacks, suicide bombers and people plowing people with cars.

So yeah both have tragic things that happen on their land, everything else I rather live in America. That's my opinion, you will have yours because you were born and raised where you're.

I feel great pity for you.
 

Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,468
Germany
I grew up listening to throw away news segments on the radio about murders and wars over there. Bombings, and all the that mixed in with the morning weather. Now it's acid attacks, suicide bombers and people plowing people with cars.

So yeah both have tragic things that happen on their land, everything else I rather live in America. That's my opinion, you will have yours because you were born and raised where you're.
We also have Facts and numbers on our side, but that's alright. Not dissing Americans per say, just your government and flawed democracy
 

Spine Crawler

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,228
The easiest way is to just stay at home. Dont go to bars, concert, the cinema, school etc. The government doesnt give a flying fuck about mass shootings
America is not even close to being the greatest country in the world.

People should stop saying this as it's disingenuous and a GOP talking point.
Depends on what is greatest. It is the biggest economy abd has the biggest military. So yeah they are the most powerful country.

That doesnt mean its a great place to live.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,231
I grew up listening to throw away news segments on the radio about murders and wars over there. Bombings, and all the that mixed in with the morning weather. Now it's acid attacks, suicide bombers and people plowing people with cars.

So yeah both have tragic things that happen on their land, everything else I rather live in America. That's my opinion, you will have yours because you were born and raised where you're.

I also grew up hearing these things, because they were significant events. Meanwhile here in the states we're just shy of 100 gun deaths per day. We don't even hear about the majority of them because they're so common. That's when you know shit is fucked up when it becomes so frequent we stop hearing about it. Not that bullshit you're spouting.
 

-PXG-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,186
NJ
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.

We have TVs all over the place where I work. Hardly a peep about this shooting.

We've finally become complacent and accepted this shit as normal.
 

Deleted member 6215

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,087
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.
I have a harder and harder time reading and posting in these threads because they are so thoroughly depressing and happen so frequently. I did what I could this week and helped kick out a Republican congressman, replaced him with someone who promises to take action on our gun problem, but the issue is so huge it's completely overwhelming at this point.

I made the mistake of looking at what the GAF thread for this looks like now.... I'll take the 1000 comments that we've got here any day. But I think you're right that the risk of letting desensitization lead to inaction is growing.
 

Fakto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
151
I grew up listening to throw away news segments on the radio about murders and wars over there. Bombings, and all the that mixed in with the morning weather. Now it's acid attacks, suicide bombers and people plowing people with cars.

So yeah both have tragic things that happen on their land, everything else I rather live in America. That's my opinion, you will have yours because you were born and raised where you're.

Big difference for me is the country attitude towards the incidents. All around Europe they installed security measures in crowded places as barrier to avoid easy incoming traffic, that measure saved lives in the Barcelona Van incident.

Unfraternally, not the same can be said for USA with its gun problem. None so blind as those who will not see. If you don't care, why would I (as a foreigner)? At some point I'm not even maddened by it.


 

HotTakeCakes

Alt account
Banned
Sep 12, 2018
469
Reading
I grew up listening to throw away news segments on the radio about murders and wars over there. Bombings, and all the that mixed in with the morning weather. Now it's acid attacks, suicide bombers and people plowing people with cars.

The difference is that these happen very few and far between rather than everyday / week.

Not only that, but each incident is inveistgated, people are arrested and changes are made.

What do you get over there? Ignorance and 'thoughts and prayers'.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.
I feel like the US is now comparable to the Middle East. The worst part about this is that it would be far easier to fix the US compared to the Middle East if the people in charge tried atleast.
 

iseta

Member
Jun 26, 2018
524
Jupiter
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.

I don't think people browse etcetERA as much as you think they do.
 

Tpallidum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,157
Hey you have anything to say about 12 people murdered in cold blood in California?
Yeah. We need to defend our gun hobby. It is more important than people's lives

What a disgusting piece of fucking shit. People voted for this trash. smfh

 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,877
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
The Neogaf thread on Sandy Hook had about 70-80 pages in the first day after it happened. In the same time frame, this has had less than 20. The thread about Tabata leaving Square Enix on gaming side got double this.

How have we reached a point where a shooting killing 13 in the United States is this small of news? Fuck.
I've reached the point where I can't immediately tell any more if they're new mass-shootings or if it's a previous week's thread being bumped. Similar confusion takes place with police misconduct. Their frequency just makes 'em blend together, and the people in power aren't going to do anything about it anyway. I don't want to become numb to it, but I can tell it it's happening. Feels bad.
 

bangai-o

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,527
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the closest that the military has to cognitive evaluations is the asvab test. The Air Force asvab is harder than the others, but they are each not that tough. Young men who have cognitive and psychological disorders can join the military prior to gaining combat ptsd. I think it is just going to be easier for many people to say ptsd is the reason for this.
 

dragonchild

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,270
This is kind of terrible but I've been thinking about this a lot. Guns have been available forever in this country. In fact, in the past they didn't have background checks or waiting periods. And yet back in the50, 60,70,80s etc., you barely ever had mass shootings.
No, they happened, you just didn't hear about them as often -- or rather, people were even more numb back then. In fact, gun violence is way down from the 1970s. Workplace rage was so common the term "going postal" was coined because the USPS alone had 11 mass shootings in a decade. Guns were ALWAYS a problem in this country.

Now we have this ironic dilemma that some gun nuts see a terrible situation getting somewhat better and declare it as self-correcting. If you were one of the victims in Thousand Oaks, though, the "self-correction" didn't happen fast enough.
 

Elynn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,033
Brittany, France
I grew up listening to throw away news segments on the radio about murders and wars over there. Bombings, and all the that mixed in with the morning weather. Now it's acid attacks, suicide bombers and people plowing people with cars.
Are we pretending these happen everyday now ? There are more victims of gun homicides in 3 regular days in the USA than there were victims of the November 2015 attacks in Paris (by far the deadliest attack in Western Europe in 10+ years).
You have 3-4 times more chance to be killed in the USA than in France, the UK or Germany.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Are we pretending these happen everyday now ? There are more victims of gun homicides in 3 regular days in the USA than there were victims of the November 2015 attacks in Paris (by far the deadliest attack in Western Europe in 10+ years).
You have 3-4 times more chance to be killed in the USA than in France, the UK or Germany.
Yeah and I'm saying I rather take my chances here then ever live in any of those places.