DOTA 2 Being Review Bombed After Racist Incident

Deleted member 1041 · Nov 8, 2018

CloseTalker said:
As usual review bombing proving to be an irrelevant tactic that only hurts devs and potential customers, and does exactly nothing productive to solve the problem. Steam desperately needs to figure out a way to prevent review bombing. I can't imagine it's ludicrously difficult to flag a massive influx of reviews for a 5+ year old game.

What? In this case I think its hoping that Valve will act and punish these racists in their own games. Valve isnt going to get hurt out of review bombing.

Its frustrating that Valve hasnt done anything and seemingly has the same hands off approach to moderation as they do to their store.

Dreams-Visions · Nov 8, 2018

Antrax said:
Riot sucks (especially in light of the recent write-ups on how sexist and terrible they are), but their centralized structure for League works in their favor on stuff like this. They get to be the sole arbiters of punishment in the League, and so fans have one entity to pressure for punishment instead of this where maybe Valve will do something, or the team, or the tournament organizers, etc...

When Svenskeren did this same crap (he was using the username "TaipeiChingChong" in Taiwan while practicing), Riot fined him chump change but also suspended him from his team for their first half of games at Worlds. They didn't make it out of the group stage that year, and certainly would've done much better with their star jungler.

Valve should step up here and claim some more ownership of the scene so that there's no wishy-washy business going on with punishments.

Yes.

And fuck Tobi.

Deleted member 2802 · Nov 8, 2018

VG is playing TNC tonite

Deleted member 2802 · Nov 8, 2018

Chairmanchuck (另一个我) · Nov 9, 2018

shira said:

"Sincere"...

Sure.

TyrantGuardian · Nov 9, 2018

atluke said:
While I completely disagree with what the players have done and the lack of official response/action from Valve and Complexity, I don't think review bombing the game is going to make a huge difference.

Ok? What's your useful suggestion in lieu of that?

Some of the responses in this thread remind me of why I barely read this forum any more... Most have thankfully been banned but being exposed to these racist apologist posters in the first place is fucking exhausting.

Valdega · Nov 9, 2018

And this is why review bombing is stupid. What does this have to do with Valve or the game itself? DreamLeague hosted the tournament and comPlexity Gaming hired the kid making the offensive statements. It's their responsibility to manage the conduct of the people they work with.

To put it in perspective, this is like someone hitting someone's car and the other person review bombing the Toyota Camry 2018 because that's what the guilty driver was driving.

TyrantGuardian · Nov 9, 2018

Valdega said:
And this is why review bombing is stupid. What does this have to do with the game itself? DreamLeague hosted the tournament and comPlexity Gaming hired the kid making the offensive statements. It's their responsibility to manage the conduct of the people they work with.

To put it in perspective, this is like someone hitting someone's car and the other person review bombing the Toyota Camry 2018 because that's what the guilty driver was driving.

The game is and always has been mostly about its community. That's literally how it came to exist in the first place. So much god damn ignorance.

Also still can't believe how TobiWan even exists in this scene any more. That's kind of where I checked out of giving a shit about Dota events personally.

Chaos2Frozen · Nov 9, 2018

Looking at this thread, racism against Chinese (Asians In general) is so accepted that some people don't even think fucking "Ching Chong" is racist.

Valdega · Nov 9, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
The game is and always has been mostly about its community. That's literally how it came to exist in the first place. So much god damn ignorance.

Valve made the game. That's it. They are not responsible for the behavior of its players, especially in a situation like this. Tournament organizers and eSports leagues are supposed to moderate their employees/participants.

The point of a game review to is to review the game, not complain about the lack of moderation in eSports leagues and tournaments that have nothing to do with Valve.

ShortNasty · Nov 9, 2018

Chaos2Frozen said:
Looking at this thread, racism against Chinese (Asians In general) is so accepted that some people don't even think fucking "Ching Chong" is racist.

Take heart in the fact that people are getting actioned fairly quickly. I'm sort of baffled by that as well. Like, that shit is only used to belittle people. Chappelle has a skit about that over 10 years ago where he was explicitly playing a racist and using that as slur. Well, he said "Ching Chang Chong", but thats a minimal fucking difference.

Chaos2Frozen · Nov 9, 2018

ShortNasty said:
Take heart in the fact that people are getting actioned fairly quickly. I'm sort of baffled by that as well. Like, that shit is only used to belittle people. Chappelle has a skit about that over 10 years ago where he was explicitly playing a racist and using that as slur. Well, he said "Ching Chang Chong", but thats a minimal fucking difference.

The one that got me was "It's insensitive but not racist".

Well why do you think it's insensitive in the first place?! /facepalm

Sandersson · Nov 9, 2018

Rudolph said:
Goddamn pornstar in the comments tryna educate this fool lmao.

Haha, gotta say I love the astronaut suit. Good for him though.

Green Mario · Nov 9, 2018

Jesus Christ, all the bans in this thread just go to show how this shit is allowed to fly in Dota.

Deleted member 2652 · Nov 9, 2018

if you don't think "ching chong" is racist, well then uh, sorry to tell you, you're racist.

SinCityAssassin · Nov 9, 2018

Quote said:
if you don't think "ching chong" is racist, well then uh, sorry to tell you, you're racist.

I mean, if you didn't think it was racist, but then on the other hand you think it's derogatory and an insult, then what the hell do you think it is to be that in the first place?

Magicpork · Nov 9, 2018

Valdega said:
And this is why review bombing is stupid. What does this have to do with Valve or the game itself? DreamLeague hosted the tournament and comPlexity Gaming hired the kid making the offensive statements. It's their responsibility to manage the conduct of the people they work with.

Valdega said:
Valve made the game. That's it. They are not responsible for the behavior of its players, especially in a situation like this. Tournament organizers and eSports leagues are supposed to moderate their employees/participants.

It's a tournament in Dota Pro Circuit, one of the 10 tournaments in the 2018-2019 flagship professional league, and certainly sponsored and overseen by Valve

With Valve deadly silent on the issue, I can understand review bombing was perceived as the only mean to raise the attention.

Bufbaf · Nov 9, 2018

SinCItyAssassin said:
I mean, if you didn't think it was racist, but then on the other hand you think it's derogatory and an insult, then what the hell do you think it is to be that in the first place?

How on earth would "Ching Chong" be an derogatory AND insulting phrase, if not for it's blatant racism? Would you be mad if I'd call you "Chong" as an insult? Can someone please enlighten me how the phrase can be seen as derogatory or insulting in a way that's not inherently racist?

Of course it's racist, how is this even a discussion.

TyrantGuardian · Nov 9, 2018

Valdega said:
Valve made the game. That's it. They are not responsible for the behavior of its players, especially in a situation like this. Tournament organizers and eSports leagues are supposed to moderate their employees/participants.

The point of a game review to is to review the game, not complain about the lack of moderation in eSports leagues and tournaments that have nothing to do with Valve.

Haha, what? No they didn't. The community made Dota. Literally.

potatohead · Nov 9, 2018

Reviews bombs will not affect dota 2

It's an f2p game if people want to play it they will

I also would support more pushback by publishers against overtly racist players professional or not

Online media forums games social media etc are too much shelter for fucking assholes these days

wandering · Nov 9, 2018

Yas said:
That's pretty much the same as saying the N-word to african americans.

Eh, I don't think comparing slurs is a good idea. It's definitively racist, but it has a different history to it.

Deleted member 3038 · Nov 9, 2018

Valdega said:
Valve made the game. That's it. They are not responsible for the behavior of its players, especially in a situation like this. Tournament organizers and eSports leagues are supposed to moderate their employees/participants.

The point of a game review to is to review the game, not complain about the lack of moderation in eSports leagues and tournaments that have nothing to do with Valve.

Yeah, I don't see how valve's inaction is at fault here. Are they in charge of that league & directly oversee it? For example Riot has final say on all their main Pro League stuff & has banned players for it before, but I don't know if that's the same for valve.

Though the player should get banned from ever playing again IMO, professional games are not the place to ever say something like that (not that I'm saying it's alright in some situations).

neilyadig · Nov 9, 2018

Reviewing bombing won't affect Dota 2, it has a huge playerbase already - that's not the issue.

It looks like review bombing IS effective. We have people talking about it on ResetEra now, whereas I hadn't heard about this before.

The issue lies in the fact that because review bombing gets lots of people's attention, of course people are going to use it as a method to be heard.

Deleted member 46489 · Nov 9, 2018

Racism can seem like a non-issue that people "make a big deal of" if you've grown up without being the constant target of it.
The only way to change that is effective education to communicate that racism causes real damage, even if it's just "words".

That being said, considering the age of the person involved and that it's their first offence, I think the decision taken by complexity gaming is adequate. I have no idea what people expect Valve to do in this situation.

Maybe Valve could draft a Code of Conduct for pro players at LANs?

-Amon- · Nov 9, 2018

Being Italian every time i go online i'm exposed to shit like that. I simply ignore it, the guy's the fool, not me.

Probably we're less sensitive than Chinese people to that kind of behaviour.

Mirabai · Nov 9, 2018

So if you dont agree with the OP you get banned for "Downplaying racism". Great mods....really

VideogameVices · Nov 9, 2018

Mirabai said:
So if you dont agree with the OP you get banned for "Downplaying racism". Great mods....really

but it is. the phrase ching chong is racist and derogatory.

Chairmanchuck (另一个我) · Nov 9, 2018

Mirabai said:
So if you dont agree with the OP you get banned for "Downplaying racism". Great mods....really

In what world is "Ching Chang Chong" not racist???

Mirabai · Nov 9, 2018

VideogameVices said:
but it is. the phrase ching chong is racist and derogatory.

Chairmanchuck said:
In what world is "Ching Chang Chong" not racist???

i would love to answer that - but ill get banned if i do it, so i cant - sorry

razakin · Nov 9, 2018

Mirabai said:
i would love to answer that - but ill get banned if i do it, so i cant - sorry

Please do answer, as I would like to hear that mystical place where shit like that isn't racist, so I could mark it up and never visit it.

And Valve (+other eSport companies) and teams really should start dropping some fines/penalties for players saying racist shit, same for casters.

Nick C · Nov 9, 2018

Mirabai said:
i would love to answer that - but ill get banned if i do it, so i cant - sorry

You're gonna get banned if you keep posting like this anyway. Your only chance of not getting banned is by backing up your statements.

Probably doesn't matter either way. This is more than likely an alt.

Deleted member 1589 · Nov 9, 2018

Aye. Back when I played Dota everyone used chingchong when there was Chinese kanjii, even my friends who were Chinese. Interesting enough that was soft racism compared to other stuff that goes on in all chat.

Always glad I took the high road and insulted their mothers and sisters instead.

Seriously though it's one of the main reasons why I stop playing. At one point you just gotta ask yourself that is it really good to play with this sort of community when you're already in your late twenties.

Still love watching competitive Dota from time to time though.

Z-Brownie · Nov 9, 2018

grandwizorb said:
I don't think the DOTA community will care, I mean they had this guy turn into one of their prominent casters after he said this

this is person is a total scum

Mikebison · Nov 9, 2018

It's not like Dota needs good reviews at this point anyway. It's played by like a trillion people.

noyram23 · Nov 9, 2018

As someone for the Philippines, yeah a lot of people here are racist, mainly due to lack of awareness and ignorance. I see a lot blacks and chinese here being openly bullied due to race. There should be a nationwide awareness push from the goverment.

Mirabai said:
i would love to answer that - but ill get banned if i do it, so i cant - sorry

You'll get banned because you're downplaying racism.

SinCItyAssassin said:
I mean, if you didn't think it was racist, but then on the other hand you think it's derogatory and an insult, then what the hell do you think it is to be that in the first place?

Yup that qoute is fucked up, they don' t even know what being racist mean.

Bhonar · Nov 9, 2018

I mean filipinos are asians themselves. Do some of you not subscribe to the principle that it does not carry the same weight when you're talking about your same race?

To me it's not the same level of effect as if it came from a white person or black person.

I certainly don't put it at the same exact level as a white person calling a black person the n-word (-er version).

If it matters, I'm 100% racially chinese myself (born and raised in america though). If another asian called me that, I would straight up laugh and talk shit right back

Chaos2Frozen · Nov 9, 2018

Bhonar said:
I mean filipinos are asians themselves. Do some of you not subscribe to the principle that it does not carry the same weight when you're talking about your same race?

To me it's not the same level of effect as if it came from a white person or black person.

I certainly don't put it at the same exact level as a white person calling a black person the n-word (-er version).

If it matters, I'm 100% racially chinese myself (born and raised in america though). If another asian called me that, I would straight up laugh and talk shit right back

Filipino and Chinese don't see themselves as one and the same just because they're both labeled "Asian".

I'm 100% ethnically Chinese, born and raised in an Asian country, and I'm saying that's 100% racist and having a Filipino say it doesn't make it any less racist, in fact it probably makes it more fucked up.

Deleted member 2840 · Nov 9, 2018

Earlier today BurNIng published a statement he received from Valve to his followers on Chinese social media in regards to the recent incident that occurred during the DreamLeague Minor.

Kuosi · Nov 9, 2018

Chaos2Frozen said:
Looking at this thread, racism against Chinese (Asians In general) is so accepted that some people don't even think fucking "Ching Chong" is racist.

This has been a stupid meme on dota2 reddit for years, as long as you aren't racist against black people everything else is fine, no punishment what so ever. It's ridiculous how long it has been like this with no sign of change.

Kuosi · Nov 9, 2018

double

KratosEnergyDrink · Nov 9, 2018

Perhaps it would help if OP offered some more background. Like this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching_chong

Yarbskoo · Nov 9, 2018

CloseTalker said:
As usual review bombing proving to be an irrelevant tactic that only hurts devs and potential customers, and does exactly nothing productive to solve the problem. Steam desperately needs to figure out a way to prevent review bombing.

May as well go all the way and ban public protests altogether.

TrueBroLapp · Nov 9, 2018

CloseTalker said:
As usual review bombing proving to be an irrelevant tactic that only hurts devs and potential customers, and does exactly nothing productive to solve the problem. Steam desperately needs to figure out a way to prevent review bombing. I can't imagine it's ludicrously difficult to flag a massive influx of reviews for a 5+ year old game.

Review bombing is a pretty good way to let users and developers know that there is something currently going wrong with the game.
Steam show both "Recent Reviews", which will be the ones affected, and "All Reviews", which will be mostly unaffected by the review bombing.
For Dota 2, "Recent Reviews" are mixed, at 49% positive, and "All Reviews" are very positive with 86% positive. Any new player can see this data and realize that this is a great game, going through some problems lately.
Then they can read new reviews to see if they agree with the review bombing issue, or they can ignore the new reviews and read only the older ones.

This review bombing isn't a Dota problem in particular, but it's still important, new Chinese players may see the problem and choose not to support Valve for their lack of action.

Htown · Nov 9, 2018

I think my favorite part of this thread is all the posters that seem more offended by the review bombing than the racism.

Zafir · Nov 9, 2018

Mesoian said:
It's one thing to let it go unchecked in pubs.

But this is a tournament setting. An International tournament setting, one that could very easily be televised.

Can't pull that shit on the pro circuit. This is where your money is made and you wanna act like that?

I mean I don't really think it should go unchecked in pubs either.

That's probably half the reason chat in Dota 2 is so god damn awful. People see their favourite streamers doing it all the time and it's positive feedback for them doing it themselves. You report that shit in game and they basically get a slap on the wrist, having to play in a special queue for x matches if they get reported enough. I should not have to mute chat in a good amount of my Dota 2 games because people have the mentality of a 12 year old. There should have been a big crackdown on this rubbish a long time ago.

OrdinaryPrime · Nov 9, 2018

Htown said:
I think my favorite part of this thread is all the posters that seem more offended by the review bombing than the racism.

They have more empathy for Valve than people affected by racism. It's pathetic.

Fat4all · Nov 9, 2018

Mirabai said:
i would love to answer that - but ill get banned if i do it, so i cant - sorry

why isn't this a permanent ban, it's clearly a troll account

Principate · Nov 9, 2018

Htown said:
I think my favorite part of this thread is all the posters that seem more offended by the review bombing than the racism.

It's absurd since when did review bombing become such a heinous crime.

Oh no! Customers are airing the displeasement of a developers practices and are giving negative reviews as a consequence how terrible. Whereas the thing people are actually concerned about the racism is given absolutely zero productive solutions but don't you dare give a negative review "It's not the way".

inner-G · Nov 9, 2018

Shouldn't Chinese players be on like a separate Internet or something since they have their national internet usage restrictions and everything?

Or are these Chinese-American accounts?

Achtung · Nov 9, 2018

All of you who are saying review bombing does nothing are missing the point. This is the only way that community feels they can be heard.. they are doing what they can and here we are talking about it so .. its working. I doubt Value will do much as they are who they are but many MANY more people heard about this thanks to the reviews being bombed.

I hope it leads to something but I have little faith in Valve.

DOTA 2 Being Review Bombed After Racist Incident

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