Jesus this ib what a shite show! The only new item I got over 3-4 days of playing was timur's bond which I really wanted but my brother plays much less than me and gets two forward path auto rifles and antiope to boot when he brings in his stuff to the gunsmith. This game just hates me. I never get the weapons I want and that's evident by how long I couldn't get hardlight until xur sold it.
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Destiny 2 |OT| Guardians Make Their Own Fate
- Thread starter JohnOfMars
- Start date
Dismantle on sight. Tracking in D2 is shite.
I haven't played the game in 2 months and won't be returning for this expansion and I doubt I'll be returning at all unless Destiny 2 brings back the soul it had in Destiny 1. I already uninstalled the game a long time ago. I do hope Bungie can make it work, but just hearing what the dev team has been saying (very little but still very telling) I'm not optimistic, at least for myself. Bungie wanted casuals, they have casuals, but what happens when those casuals get bored and move on? How do they get the hardcore players to come back if they double down on their decisions instead of admitting their fuck ups? Fool me once and all that jazz. Are people just gonna accept the bullshit and keep throwing money their way?
Like I've said, I still enjoy playing the game. A lot. I have a lot of fun playing it. I'm not spending any additional money on the game just yet, just what I have already spent. And since I enjoy the game, that's working out fine.
I'm just curious, since you mentioned it but: what have the Bungie development team "been saying" that has led you to not be optimistic? Also, wht decisions have they "doubled down" on and not "admitted their fuck ups."
Also, as someone who clearly played D1, the Bungie that made that game is still the Bungie making this game. They made a different game than D1, clearly. And that comes with a fresh set of feedback and critique. But they did support that game and reacted to fan feedback for 3 years. So what's changed in the way they're handling feedback 3 months into the game, to you, that has led to your outrage?
I'm not trying to single you out or anything. I'm legitimately curious and want to understand all this rage in the community. I go to Reddit and I see toxicity, a community that I'm ashamed of being a part of. What am I missing here?
Turned in a good chunk of tokens earned over two characters and got only class items and weapons. No armor. Zero chance I'm grinding for a set.
If Destiny players are thirsty for a grind, one is certainly present in the form of IB full set chases.
Hell probably any full gear set honestly. I had to turn in lord knows how many cheesed new monarchy tokens to get a full set the other week.
Did you hear the crucible radio podcast? Thats how I know they're doubling down on their decisions. And Bungie has changed a lot of personnel since D1 came out, including their head honcho so no, the same team that made D1 is not the same team that made D2. What i don't get is how you completely regress the game from what Destiny 1 was in years 2 and 3 to what Destiny 2 is, its mind boggling.
You I wanted them sooooo bad to continue all in d1 and have it be in d2 as well start every at 400 light have 700 but max and have it up to 800 by y3d2. But they really are doing to same damn think every game making us pay them to beta test their game..
I just wish I had the patients to wait for year3 d2 so you can get it all for 60 bones -_-
My one char is 304 and has never seen the raid nor completed a nightfall. I still enjoy popping in a few nights a week and running some strikes. I like doing a few pub events when the bounty is up for a planet, but i wish there were a few more varieties.
I'm mostly bothered by the lack of proper shopping in the tower. I miss when each vendor had a selection of items I could browse and save up for. I miss the rotating selection at the faction vendors. I also miss being able to solo nightfalls, even if it was brutally slow going sometimes. It doesn't seem possible anymore. Being that my schedule is erratic and I never have a safe time to devote to long activities, I miss out nightfalls now too, instead of just raids.
I'm mostly bothered by the lack of proper shopping in the tower. I miss when each vendor had a selection of items I could browse and save up for. I miss the rotating selection at the faction vendors. I also miss being able to solo nightfalls, even if it was brutally slow going sometimes. It doesn't seem possible anymore. Being that my schedule is erratic and I never have a safe time to devote to long activities, I miss out nightfalls now too, instead of just raids.
I actually have listened to both parts of the Crucible Radio podcast and it definitely seems like I got something completely different out of it. It helped me understand the design decisions they chose to make and the philosophy surrounding them. Did I agree with some of them? Nope, but I see what they're talking about, with the subclasses, and the switch to Power weapons and how those moments work, and I see it work in the game and I feel it and can identify it. So, successful execution in concept.
Has the community taken to them? Nope. But I think part of it is seeing Destiny 2 as a continuation of Destiny 1 as opposed to a brand new game. Are they right in thinking that way? Absolutely. Sticking a 2 behind a name implies sequel, implies continuity, implies not completely redesigning core aspects and philosophies of a game that's been constantly evolving. But it's what they did and the community is responding accordingly.
I would counter that I listened to Crucible Radio and didn't see it as doubling down, but more an explanation of design decisions. It wasn't an indicator to me that those things were set in stone, more an explanation as to why they designed things the way they did.
I'm not trying to defend Bungie, not fully. I'm just advocating that, as a community, this relationship with Bungie goes both ways. We can be critical without being toxic, without over-exaggerating, without yelling. Vote with your actions and your wallet, and most importantly, your time.
This is the sequel, this was supposed to be the victory lap. It was supposed to be the result of what Bungie (and we) have learned over 3 long years.
We thought that once they would get rid of the restrictions the original game put on them they would go nuts! Sky was the limit!
"THINK OF WHAT THEY HAVE LEARNED! AND NOW THEY CAN START FROM SCRATCH" (OMG OMG OMG!!!!!111eleven)
The initial reveal already made clear that we would not get that. Destiny 2 was off the table, but Destiny 1.5 was still an option. More Destiny - nothing wrong with that.
Turns out we didn´t even get Destiny 1.5.
We got MyFirstDestiny from Fisher-Price.
The community is mostly very, VERY disappointed. This translates to anger sometimes.
Fair enough, I get where you're coming from. For me what Bungie has done is a slap to the face of their hardcore players. I really dislike the fact that they said that team shooting doesn't put stress on us to land shots, like wtf seriously? There is ZERO skill gap in this game and honestly that frustrates the hell out of me. The dumbing down of skill tree is another wtf decision, now there is zero flexibility to what you want to do, its either this or that. This whole focus on team shooting is so mind numbingly boring. I wish they had gone for a middle ground and kept a skill gap for the more hardcore players, not just cater to casuals, who by the way aren't even their fan base! Its kind of ridiculous if you ask me. And that token system is just dreadful, not to mention fixed rolls, like come on, give me something to work for! Its not exciting to get my 8th better devils because they are all exactly the same, just like the armor.
I dunno man, I'm just super frustrated with what they've done and maybe this week's announcement isn't make or break for everyone, but it certainly is for me.
my fun ended when they nerfed Special Ammo in D1 PVP (with the exception of Sidearms, LOL), and it became clear that they were nerfing fun.
D2 confirmed that they are determined into nerfing fun.
the main reason why I played Destiny 1 was fun and I was puzzled at the constant nerfing of special weapons and am disapointed at the confirmation that they revamped their weapons loadout system in D2 to remove fun from the game.
There is still a bit of hope in me that believes that maybe fun will return. But I'm now nearly convinced that eSports Trials people have won while the rest of us who like fun have lost.
I am not buying Curse of Osiris and will play Fractured But Whole instead
D2 confirmed that they are determined into nerfing fun.
the main reason why I played Destiny 1 was fun and I was puzzled at the constant nerfing of special weapons and am disapointed at the confirmation that they revamped their weapons loadout system in D2 to remove fun from the game.
There is still a bit of hope in me that believes that maybe fun will return. But I'm now nearly convinced that eSports Trials people have won while the rest of us who like fun have lost.
I am not buying Curse of Osiris and will play Fractured But Whole instead
I think that's fair. And ultimately, if the game doesn't work out for you, it's a shame and it's your right to stop engaging with it, come back when you want to. Or don't. I see the rage from the community and I know it comes from a place of passion but I also know that as much as, as a community, we feel entitled to what the game is, the game ultimately isn't ours'. It's Bungie's. They made the game they made, with the choices they made and the philosophy they had. I think it largely worked, if a little confused. But that's just me. I loved Destiny 1 too. And while this wasn't the direct expansion to D1, it's something that I, personally, find more welcoming to what I come to games for, and how I play games.
But clearly, that isn't the case for everyone. And Bungie has been hearing it, because it's being yelled at them :P
And how they respond to their community, how they choose to respond, what they choose to respond to... we'll see.
For sure dude, I'm just waiting to see what Luke has to say. Also thats another thing that I find odd, where is DeeJ who is supposed to be their community manager during all this time? Anywho, Luke and Noseworthy coming out to address the community speaks volumes, I just hope they address the things they need to address instead of trying to shove more Curse Of Osiris down our throats
DeeJ hasn't posted a single time with his account on Reddit in over a month.
Pretty crazy how tightlipped Bungie is with absolutely everything. Only when they can get on positive mouthpieces like that Crucible Radio podcast do they seem to let loose sometimes.
I feel. Luke and Noseworthy coming out to talk, the interviews in Crucible Radio, Barrett's post in the TWAB all mean so much. We need more of that: on the ground developers talking about the game to community members and hotspots. DeeJ's schtick and flowery language is endearing. But ineffective in talking about a game and support for a live game. It comes off as PR-speak and a little disrespecting of the community and their concerns.
There is room for both sweet, honestly amazing stories about making friends playing Destiny and interviews with developers working on the game. More developer insight during TWABs would be amazing... and sorely needed.
And look how that backfired for them. Honestly, if i were Bungie I would have fired DeeJ a long time ago
I think Deej is moving more to corporate PR stuff for them and letting Cozmo and dmg do more of the community interaction stuff. At least if TWAB/reddit interaction is anything to go by vs the more high level stream / conference stuff. Which is fine. I never had a problem with Deej, he's just the messenger. Luke Smith though...
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LOL I saw this cropping up on Twitter, so weird.
Maybe I'm not understanding but the Overwatch community is just as toxic if not worse, but you still see these developer commentaries from Jeff Kaplan on future updates and balance changes. Is something different I'm not seeing?
Then Cozmo should be doing the streams. Watching DeeJ do his thing on the CoO streams feel tone deaf. The streams themselves feel meaningless. Destiny is all about the mystery. Yet, we're gonna see a bunch of the loot just shown to us. They're marketing. But that's not what the people dedicated enough to watch the streams are there to see.
More Ride Alongs. More developer features. More developer interviews. Some of my favorite parts of Bungie Halo updates and the Bungie Podcast then were when they brought developers in to talk about what they were working on/worked on and why. And their history. I wanna know Bungie and the people who work there. Same for game developers everywhere. I wanna know the people who make my games and why they made them that way.
Overwatch gets those updates like once every 2 months, Bungie does updates every week on their site. Not really comparable.
As long as you don't tell him to find some Advanced Paradox Amplifier to turn in, you're good
I don't get why they even have a community manager if there is no real "managing" of the community.
Those blog posts every week with flowery,condescending language really don't count when tons of other games have community managers wading through the shit a community produces every day and communicate or do streams every week with twitch chat spewing bile at them constantly.
I hate to echo something from the subreddit but at this point i really wonder, what exactly is DeeJ being paid for? Like, what are the parts of his job he is doing? I'm sure he is working,obviously, but as a part of the community I really can't see what the community manager is doing.
Those blog posts every week with flowery,condescending language really don't count when tons of other games have community managers wading through the shit a community produces every day and communicate or do streams every week with twitch chat spewing bile at them constantly.
I hate to echo something from the subreddit but at this point i really wonder, what exactly is DeeJ being paid for? Like, what are the parts of his job he is doing? I'm sure he is working,obviously, but as a part of the community I really can't see what the community manager is doing.
I have nothing against DeeJ. I think he's just a emblematic of the type of community interaction that Destiny, and the gaming industry, doesn't need right now.
I think we'll get a lot of promises tomorrow. Much of this content is probably already done, and the fact that we saw that Vance is still taking Tokens shows that the base D2 economy was used in the expansion as well, or was intended to. I would be surprised if the live team suddenly made vendor pools purchasable for shards/tokens for example. I think there will be a promise for when we can expect such functionality to go live. I fear that in order to hold off people from racing through the loot pool again they will artificially play around with numbers to make things extremely grindy.
OP
OP
Just a quick stat for y'all that hate Double Primaries.
The last raid I did in D1 was Vault of Glass. I had 135 kills with weapons. 104 were primary and 31 were special and heavy. Giving people a second gun for those >75% of kills isn't the worst thing in the world and can hardly be argued is "less variety".
Just sayin'.
The last raid I did in D1 was Vault of Glass. I had 135 kills with weapons. 104 were primary and 31 were special and heavy. Giving people a second gun for those >75% of kills isn't the worst thing in the world and can hardly be argued is "less variety".
Just sayin'.
I checked GutZ31 's stats for the same raid and he used his primary 88% of the time. Seems like a little variety for the slot we use the most would be nice...
This is kind of why I hate Slayerage's video about weapons. Primary weapons are primary weapons because they are the most effective killing mechanism. Being able to hold two primary weapons provides the ability to morph our playstyle considerably, making engagements more dynamic. Then you get Power Weapon ammo and the dynamic of the encounter changes dramatically again.
We need more archetypes, more perks and maybe more weapon types. But double primaries? It's great.
Y'all gotta listen to the Crucible Radio two-parter. I had guessed at some of the design decisions but hearing the actual philosophy behind that stuff helps me appreciate it a lot.
Now I wanna hear the Bungie devs who worked on the investment and economy systems. Because that's where the true mind boggling stuff is.
This is a terrible comparison. Usage doesn't equate to kills. Special and Heavy weapons by design were for boss DPS. Just because I wasn't sniping a goblin doesn't mean I wasn't using the hell out of it. I wouldn't sleeper a minotaur, etc.
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If the goal is to make players switch weapons, then the design needs to justify that.
In D2, if you have two equally strong primaries, then the energy weapon is always going to be more useful. In PVE, it takes down shields. In PVP, it deals bonus to supers.
There's no justification to switch in the middle of a PVE battle against a shielded enemy because you can generally kill the enemy faster than you can switch your weapon.
This leaves the only real reason to switch in PVE to be "I ran out of ammo". In PVP, it's just "I need to cover a different distance".
That's because you are shooting trash mobs with primaries. That is what primaries are for, and raids are full of trash mobs. You reserve you special and heavy for majors and bosses.
Have fun doing the same in Leviathan prestige when trash mobs 2 shot you and take a full clip to die.
There's an equal side to every situation.
Out of curiosity, do you play PvP much?
Having two primaries isn't the actual issue.
The issue is having only one Power slot, instead of Power + Special.
Don't kinetic weapons also do more damage to unshielded enemies?
Yes, in PVE only. The problem is that PVE content is such a pushover you don't really see a difference unless you're trying to DPS a boss.
Not as much as I do PvE, but yes, I do play some PvP.
In PvP, however, I do still like the dual primary system because it feels more "balanced." I'm no game designer or anything but the gunplay feels more focused and measured to me in D2, compared to D1. Now there are other problems with D2's PvP, namely ability cooldown, only one Super per game basically etc etc but the dual primary system hasn't really bothered me. And when I do get the Power Ammo drop, then yea, the dynamic of how I approach the rest of that life changes a little. It's a moment of high.
I'll admit though, my considerations for all of this comes mostly from the PvE angle. I started off furious at the Kinetic/Energy/Power weapon system. The more I've played with it, however, the more I've enjoyed it.
I agree with you here. This is a problem and needs some tweaking to make this system effective.
This is only for PVE, and it doesn't make an appreciable difference outside of DPSing bosses. The game is balanced in such a way that it's always going to take X hits from low ROF weapons to kill something.
Meanwhile, in PVP, energy weapons are strictly superior as they deal 10% additional damage to roaming supers. Yet another important aspect of balance that Bungie NEVER communicates anywhere in the game, and doesn't even make sense, considering Guardians also have shields. It's really pathetic that basic mechanics like these have to either be datamined or discovered through extensive testing.
It's more balanced in that it makes every player well-rounded. This means that players cannot specialize into roles, however, and removes their weaknesses. Every player is equipped at every range now, which leads to homogeny.
That's a very specific situation in pvp that it doesn't really affect your weapon options at all. Engagement distances matter more. For instance, you don't want to run 2 SMGs, as you'll be lacking range.
If energy weapons being able to kill supers slightly faster made that big of a difference, the most popular weapon in pvp wouldn't be a kinetic weapon, Mida.
If I remember the Reddit thread correctly then energy weapons versus supers do 10% more damage than the kinetic weapons do?
What? The average enemy team will usually get 1 super each in a regular game. You can use the Mida the entire game. That has no effect on Mida's popularity or usage.