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psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
btw, the new Fire Emblem Heroes update dropped today, adding 4 new main story characters and, well...

fEzDvKd.png

eBtHYJ2.jpg

DZlI1UY.png
bPasIzC.png

can you spot the difference between the female characters and the male character?
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Xaszatm Oh, I'll be fine. I recently played the GBC versions of Dragon Quest I and II and loved them, so they can't possibly feel THAT old, haha.

It is kind of odd when some people seem to treat their sexual proclivities like some sort of disease or addiction that they can't help but inject into every piece of media that they touch or that it's only naturally that it would bleed over into everything.
This is why I roll my eyes when guys come saying "if you want things to change then get more women in the industry and have them design the games instead" like no shit that'll help. But why can't the important men in the industry improve too? Do they really NEED to include their fetishes in everything they make? How in hell do you not question how odd that is? Jesus.
 

HypedBeast

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,058
This is why I roll my eyes when guys come saying "if you want things to change then get more women in the industry and have them design the games instead" like no shit that'll help. But why can't the important men in the industry improve too? Do they really NEED to include their fetishes in everything they make? How in hell do you not question how odd that is? Jesus.

You act like that automatically gonna change shit. You are looking at things from a very black and white perspective (women will improve character designs).

You should be saying " we want more people who share our same values and beliefs," I mean cause them being women dosent necessarily mean that they won't make designs that are very sexualized.
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
btw, the new Fire Emblem Heroes update dropped today, adding 4 new main story characters and, well...

fEzDvKd.png

eBtHYJ2.jpg

DZlI1UY.png
bPasIzC.png

can you spot the difference between the female characters and the male character?
only one that seems bad to me is the witch character which i'm assuming is going for that stupid mature lady trope that most fantasy anime uses(bet ya $10 she says ara ara at some point), oh and that none of the females have nearly as much armor as the literal tank has.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
only one that seems bad to me is the witch character which i'm assuming is going for that stupid mature lady trope that most fantasy anime uses(bet ya $10 she says ara ara at some point), oh and that none of the females have nearly as much armor as the literal tank has.

The problem isn't even that they're particularly bad (save for titty lady), especially for fanservice gacha game standards, the problem is that straight men get 3 whole new fanservice characters (as if this game didn't have enough of them already), while women get....... nothing

Well, that, and the fact that the "damaged" art for all three of the female characters is rapey and weird as fuck, as is to be expected of female characters in this game, no matter how old or young they are.
 
Oct 25, 2017
828
My first thought when I saw the third character was how would she even dress herself in the first place? And how much double-sided tape is needed to ensure that her breasts don't just pop out?

But alas, I'm sure the designer had only wholesome intentions in mind - that he just wanted to celebrate the beauty of the female form, yeah....
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,008
Canada
can you spot the difference between the female characters and the male character?
Pretty sure you could combine all their armor and it would equate to what he has, on one shoulder.

The funniest thing about the XC2 thread, the same people mad about the discussion taking place are largely the ones responsible for the continuation of it, as they keep defending illogical stances or insane justifications.
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
The problem isn't even that they're particularly bad (save for titty lady), especially for fanservice gacha game standards, the problem is that straight men get 3 whole new fanservice characters (as if this game didn't have enough of them already), while women get....... nothing

Well, that, and the fact that the "damaged" art for all three of the female characters is rapey and weird as fuck, as is to be expected of female characters in this game, no matter how old or young they are.
By damaged art, do you mean like when they get hit by an enemy or "clothing magically dissapears when they get hit" ? because if its the latter... wtf (i mean i get it for very very niche games that are meant to attract that crowd, but not fucking fire emblem)
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
btw, the new Fire Emblem Heroes update dropped today, adding 4 new main story characters and, well...

fEzDvKd.png

eBtHYJ2.jpg

DZlI1UY.png
bPasIzC.png

can you spot the difference between the female characters and the male character?

...you're kind of late. This was discussed earlier. Did you see the "damaged" picture of the well-endowed woman? She literally goes into battle with half of her ass hanging out because reasons. It's nuts.
 

Akainu

Unshakable Resolve
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,242
Everywhere and nowhere
I will say I disagree with your assessment of the two other companies though. Sony might not have any in-house studios that are doing something this blatant but they helped fund multiple Capcom games which has gotten a lot of flack for its questionable fanservice. Honestly, it's similar to Nintendo and Monolith Soft, both give companies funding then throw up their hands in the air and pretend they're not part of the problem. Microsoft hasn't had this problem lately but that's more to the fact that Microsoft hasn't really had any games of note lately.
Sony doesn't own capcom Nintendo owns monolith.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
Pretty sure you could combine all their armor and it would equate to what he has, on one shoulder.

The funniest thing about the XC2 thread, the same people mad about the discussion taking place are largely the ones responsible for the continuation of it, as they keep defending illogical stances or insane justifications.
I mean, yeah. The only reason that there are dozens of pages of it is because people couldn't be let off and acknowledged as having an opinion about the design work and then allowed to move on with their lives. If there wasn't such a fight to justify this kind of stuff then people would have their commentary and be done with it and then they could proceed to talk about the literally nothing else new there is to talk about anyway other than oh hey it actually does have
robots
in it after all.

Honestly, I feel like the OT is going to be a disaster if it doesn't have a ban on character design talk just like the Persona waifu ban, not because it's ~so awful~ if people talk about not liking a design but because if someone dares to do so it's gonna result in a five page derail about how wrong they are to condemn an artist's immaculate, untouchable "vision."

Oh no, don't tell me Fire Emblem as jumped on the creepy-as-fuck "damaged clothing" bandwagon? FFS.
It's a mobile gacha game, comes with the territory, as Xenoblade 2 is now teaching people in non-microtransaction JRPG form.

Otaku cultuuuuuure.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
By damaged art, do you mean like when they get hit by an enemy or "clothing magically dissapears when they get hit" ? because if its the latter... wtf

Characters in this game have 4 different artworks: one for when they just show in cutscenes to talk (which are the ones I posted), one for when they're attacking, one for when they trigger their special attack, and one for when they fall under a certain HP threshold (what I meant by "damaged" art). This is what these three lovely ladies get as their "damaged" art, and it's a pretty good representation of how women are portrayed in this game.

DDhnTmA.png
7QP30U6.png
CUVBFJY.png
 

sensui-tomo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
Oh no, don't tell me Fire Emblem as jumped on the creepy-as-fuck "damaged clothing" bandwagon? FFS.
so i just looked for the stuff..... Fire Emblem went the route that Fate grand order didnt even touch..... let that sink in. Note: there are definitely problematic designs in FGO but nothing like "Hey look at my battle worn ass"
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,443
too bad those three characters combined don't come close to the creepiness of halloween nowi
 
Oct 25, 2017
828
...I'm going to presume that heavily armoured bloke with the axe doesn't have a "damaged" artwork where his armour is heavily shredded?
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
apart from the difference of cloth destruction, a part that annoys me a lot are their expressions. Dude's angry, while the women are scared or embarassed.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
apart from the difference of cloth destruction, a part that annoys me a lot are their expressions. Dude's angry, while the women are scared or embarassed.

This is a huge part of why these damaged artworks are so creepy. Some of them aren't too bad when it comes to the clothing department, but almost all of the female characters in FEH look, pardon my language, like they're taking dick in their damaged artwork, whereas in general the men look worried or angry.

To be fair:

But yeah, Bruno here is clearly in the minority compared to almost every female character in the game.

He's the exception, and so are Odin, Summer Fred, Xander and Gaius (and maybe some others I'm forgetting). I also want to point out, because it's important, that this sort of damaged art extends to female characters that look severely underaged. Check Amelia's or Nowi's if you aren't familiar with the game (and you really hate yourself).
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
This is a huge part of why these damaged artworks are so creepy. Some of them aren't too bad when it comes to the clothing department, but almost all of the female characters in FEH look, pardon my language, like they're taking dick in their damaged artwork, whereas in general the men look worried or angry.

I mean, look at this way, at least the doujini artists can just copy paste a face rather than actually using one their stock sex faces this time! It makes it more "authentic'!

Hard /s just in case.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,294
This is a huge part of why these damaged artworks are so creepy. Some of them aren't too bad when it comes to the clothing department, but almost all of the female characters in FEH look, pardon my language, like they're taking dick in their damaged artwork, whereas in general the men look worried or angry.

This is the creepiest thing about a lot of anime and anime accessories. The go-to "attractive" facial expression is "let's make her look like she feels violated."
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I mean, that guy from Xaszatm post , he has more cloths destroyed but also has a more fighting expression.

This is a huge part of why these damaged artworks are so creepy. Some of them aren't too bad when it comes to the clothing department, but almost all of the female characters in FEH look, pardon my language, like they're taking dick in their damaged artwork, whereas in general the men look worried or angry.

It's crystal clear that they want to show fragility on the female characters, guess they get influence in hentai or some shit (were dicks are treated like weapons).
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
This is a huge part of why these damaged artworks are so creepy. Some of them aren't too bad when it comes to the clothing department, but almost all of the female characters in FEH look, pardon my language, like they're taking dick in their damaged artwork, whereas in general the men look worried or angry.



He's the exception, and so are Odin, Summer Fred, Xander and Gaius (and maybe some others I'm forgetting). I also want to point out, because it's important, that this sort of damaged art extends to female characters that look severely underaged. Check Amelia's or Nowi's if you aren't familiar with the game (and you really hate yourself).

Yeah, I agree. It's just wrong. I worry how much of this is going to be in the new Switch game.

He also has pants. Unlike the "female" blades.
Well maybe you already noticed that bit. But I bet some lurkers didn't.

To be fair, I think PANTS is the most common fix to nearly all anime designs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Isn't the main current FE artist someone that does hentai and is know for their ahegaos? Or am I thinking of another franchise?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Isn't the main current FE artist someone that does hentai and is know for their ahegaos? Or am I thinking of another franchise?

I don't know who the "main" artists for FE are, but given this thread I find it somewhat ironic that the artist associated with the Fire Emblem series did some of the XC2's blade artwork that is not at all trashy or sexist, and did both a male and female design are equally respectable.

https://twitter.com/XenobladeJP/status/932868704588541952
https://twitter.com/XenobladeJP/status/932867183402557441
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
I don't know who the "main" artists for FE are, but given this thread I find it somewhat ironic that the artist associated with the Fire Emblem series did some of the XC2's blade artwork that is not at all trashy or sexist, and did both a male and female design.

https://twitter.com/XenobladeJP/status/932868704588541952
https://twitter.com/XenobladeJP/status/932867183402557441

Apparently the bullshit in Awakening and Fates isn't really Kozaki's fault and is more the fault of the dude who does the armor design, whose name I can't remember right now. Heroes is another whole can of worms altogether since it has a variety of guest artists, including artists that do hentai and artists who just seem to love little girls and seemingly can't draw anything else.

Holy shit @ those Fire Emblem designs. Sigh.

Imagine being a teenage girl who was super happy because thanks to Smash Bros she just found this cool SRPG series with a medieval setting where most of the women aren't completely naked or fanservicey, and then seeing the series turn into... this over the years. Yeah.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
Isn't the main current FE artist someone that does hentai and is know for their ahegaos? Or am I thinking of another franchise?
If he does, he keeps it remarkably separate from his professional work compared to most designers who work in the same circles and also do porn, like Raita (Valkyria Chronicles) and to a lesser extent Saito (Xenoblade 2). Honestly, Kozaki's design work is extremely "Anime," but very little of it goes anywhere close to "Peak Anime," as I imagine people are starting to realize with Gacha games and Xenoblade 2 bringing more exposure to what Peak Anime actually looks like.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
If he does, he keeps it remarkably separate from his professional work compared to most designers who work in the same circles and also do porn, like Raita (Valkyria Chronicles) and to a lesser extent Saito (Xenoblade 2). Honestly, Kozaki's design work is extremely "Anime," but very little of it goes anywhere close to "Peak Anime," as I imagine people are starting to realize with Gacha games and Xenoblade 2 bringing more exposure to what Peak Anime actually looks like.

To be fair, Fates did kind of push the line at times.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,402
Imagine being a teenage girl who was super happy because thanks to Smash Bros she just found this cool SRPG series with a medieval setting where most of the women aren't completely naked or fanservicey, and then seeing the series turn into... this over the years. Yeah.
lol, I don't need to imagine. ;) I brought up Shining Force many times, and there was a point where the main artist of the newer games was literally a famous hentai artist. The series went from this to, uh... (NSFW) this.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
btw, the new Fire Emblem Heroes update dropped today, adding 4 new main story characters and, well...

fEzDvKd.png

eBtHYJ2.jpg

DZlI1UY.png
bPasIzC.png

can you spot the difference between the female characters and the male character?
Is it...is it that the bloke is the one without any peripheral vision due to comically oversized shoulder armour of warhammer-esque proportions? Stop this shamefully restrictive, prudish costuming of innocent warrior-Kings now! :D

...but yeah, it seems odd that the fire-King is dressed for warmth but ice-princess looks like she's about to literally die of exposure. Which is amusing when she talks about her people's customs when rescuing someone from a blizzard when the party recruits her.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Xaszatm
This is why I roll my eyes when guys come saying "if you want things to change then get more women in the industry and have them design the games instead" like no shit that'll help. But why can't the important men in the industry improve too? Do they really NEED to include their fetishes in everything they make? How in hell do you not question how odd that is? Jesus.

I mean, there's already a bunch of female artists and designers in the media (not in the same case of male, of course, they're still a minority compared) with some making designs that people consider fanservice and other that don't. Putting more women in the industry is great but it's not a 100% when there's women in video game and other media like manga that do fanservice designs. For example, the design in XB2 that people were complaining yesterday was made by a woman so it's not a guarantee.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
lol, I don't need to imagine. ;) I brought up Shining Force many times, and there was a point where the main artist of the newer games was literally a famous hentai artist. The series went from this to, uh... (NSFW) this.
I don't think you would be wrong in thinking that it isn't just us, but also the IP holder themselves that effectively considered Shining Force dead by the time that happened. They basically brought Tony Taka in to animate a corpse pinata and hit it with otaku for money for an extra decade or two with low-rent outsourced games. Why let an IP die with dignity when you can debase it (and I'm not even saying that as an insult to Taka, like, they hired him for a reason) for a bit of extra cash first? That the outsourcing was most recently to Media.Vision, developers of Wild ARMs, who are--if game quality the last several years is any indication--a shell of themselves too only makes the entire thing hurt more.

To be fair we never got the spinoffs that didn't have his artwork and went to other devs, and I've heard a few of those are pretty alright?

EDIT: Hahahaha it passed through Neverland (Lufia) too. Kill me.
 
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Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,585
btw, the new Fire Emblem Heroes update dropped today, adding 4 new main story characters and, well...

fEzDvKd.png

eBtHYJ2.jpg

DZlI1UY.png
bPasIzC.png

can you spot the difference between the female characters and the male character?

The most interesting thing about this specific example is that if you completely covered the guy's face and told me this was an off brand mecha design, I'd believe you.

I feel like the artists aren't drawing men, they're drawing machines, then tossing a random face onto it at the end. Hell, there's even a Gurren Lagann face in his chest!

The women are....par for the course. Cute or sexy designs that say nothing about the personality of the character beyond their 3 sizes. They're not bad, but I guarentee you the "F-me" eyes they're all giving off are not indictive of their character or narrative in their respective games. They're like this for marketing and marketing only.
 
Oct 27, 2017
488
Counter to the girls, can he even possibly wear more? x)
Please don't challenge them or give them ideas, it's already an abomination. :x

The most interesting thing about this specific example is that if you completely covered the guy's face and told me this was an off brand mecha design, I'd believe you.

I feel like the artists aren't drawing men, they're drawing machines, then tossing a random face onto it at the end. Hell, there's even a Gurren Lagann face in his chest!

The women are....par for the course. Cute or sexy designs that say nothing about the personality of the character beyond their 3 sizes. They're not bad, but I guarentee you the "F-me" eyes they're all giving off are not indictive of their character or narrative in their respective games. They're like this for marketing and marketing only.
You have discovered the secret to Gacha games, my friend.

Since it's come up a few times, a Famitsu Q&A with Takahashi about Xenoblade 2 has been posted and my speculation that they only gave the artists an element and weapon as specifics and were actually surprised to find out that so many of them drew "Cute Anime Girl" when given complete creative freedom was correct. It wasn't in the plans.

Toxic otaku culture strikes again. :^)
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The most interesting thing about this specific example is that if you completely covered the guy's face and told me this was an off brand mecha design, I'd believe you.

I feel like the artists aren't drawing men, they're drawing machines, then tossing a random face onto it at the end. Hell, there's even a Gurren Lagann face in his chest!

The women are....par for the course. Cute or sexy designs that say nothing about the personality of the character beyond their 3 sizes. They're not bad, but I guarentee you the "F-me" eyes they're all giving off are not indictive of their character or narrative in their respective games. They're like this for marketing and marketing only.
I thought about this when looking at Corrin's (female) armour when Fates released. Male plate armour gets exaggerated to the point that it looks like a battlesuit, whereas female armour gets reduced in thickness until it's basically spandex hugging every curve. Both are still 'heavy armour'.
 

Nintex

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
672
The problem with Fire Emblem heroes seems to be more that the design is all over the place.

I mean you have this:
character_slide_02_a.png

And you have this:
cisbhudhgidbt6hjb1md.png


In the same game. You can basically play out whatever fantasy floats your boat.
 
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