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Falconbox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
MOD EDIT: This is a thread for awareness regarding things like mental/physical health issues, fear of being vulnerable, restrictive gender roles, and how these constructs perpetuate toxic masculinity. There is meaningful discussion to be had here so please do not post just to be dismissive.

As good a time as ever to shine a little light on mental and physical health issues that men deal with, and finding positive role models in our lives.

Despite society becoming more progressive, it's still often hard as men to come forward about depression, anxiety, stress, etc, which in turn just exacerbates the issues. Same goes for any physical problems. Speaking as someone who is right at the border of being a Gen-Xer and a Millennial, raised by baby boomers, my peers and I were largely taught that men need to "tough it out" and that anything less was seen as a weakness.

This applied when attempting to speak to parents, other men, and even women. Being labeled a "pussy" was all too easy. Not sure how this pertains to Generation Z'ers though, and if it's gotten any easier for them growing up mainly in the 2000s.

As someone who suffers from depression, which really comes in waves in between periods of relative normalcy, it's tough to explain to friends because they say they never see it. But again, that's me trying to "tough it out" by putting extra pressure on myself to not show that side of myself to them, because I don't want to burden others with my problems.

Feel free to share your own experiences.


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Stuart Gipp

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,174
Cambridge, England
It's unfortunate that International Womens Day is so besieged on social media by "but men" trolls, because they serve to cast male victims of domestic abuse etc as MRA/sexist.

As long as men recognise that women experience disproportionately more abuse/harrassment, there is no shame in expecting to be listened to. I'm a victim of sexual harrassment and while I recognise it as "mild" compared to harrassment experienced by women I've known, I still find myself ridiculed over it more often than not if I bring it up.

Much more severely, a male friend of mine was raped and told he was lying about it, that it couldn't possibly have happened the way he said. He was actually a member of the feminist society at his university and got shunned when he brought up the incident. It hasn't turned him (or me!) anti-feminist in the slightest, but it says something about the discourse around "men's rights" such as it is, and the way it's been tainted by these MRA fuckfaces who make it so much harder for men to come forward by association. They do so much damage it's fucking grotesque.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
I remember there being a list of genuine non MRA support groups for male victims of abuse.

I wonder if I can find it.
 

johan

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,554
A good book for today is Who Stole My Spear? by Tim Samuels. It's about the hardships men in this day and age face, but it's no MRA bullshit. It's a great read!

I'm a dude with PTSD due to emotional abuse in my youth. I've had my fair share of not feeling man enough in the emotional department, it's tough. I suppose I'm lucky that I have a fairly masculine physique to make up for it/hide my emotional insecurities, otherwise I would have surely been bullied and such.

Sorry to hear about your troubles OP.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
This is actually a big reason why feminism is important for improving the quality of men's lives too. Most of these issues that disproportionately affect men would never have even been brought up if we weren't already in the process of addressing systemic gender inequality. Feminism is shining a light on all societal injustices, not just those that are experienced by women. It's important that we talk about all of them.
 

Stuart Gipp

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,174
Cambridge, England
This is actually a big reason why feminism is important for improving the quality of men's lives too. Most of these issues that disproportionately affect men would never have even been brought up if we weren't already in the process of addressing systemic gender inequality. Feminism is shining a light on all societal injustices, not just those that are experienced by women. It's important that we talk about all of them.

Yep, and I wish I'd mentioned this in my post.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,237
The perception of men that you have to deal with is a very narrow understanding that misses the depth of emotional complexity within men that has given rise to poetry, philosophy, literature and art across millennia. The ones that say we have to go it alone and tough it out are suggesting that we have to live our lives counter to our nature as members of a socially orientated species. Given that is it any surprise men in the current climate suffer higher rates of suicide?
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
Yet men also make up the majority of violent offenders, rapists, terrorists etc

And sorry to hear about your issues OP but the ones who designed it so you can't show emotion without being shamed for it are also men unfortunately.

Reading about the numerous kidnappings, murders and unsolved mysteries both historic and current committed by men honestly make it difficult for me not to think there are a lot more bad than good.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
4,840
This applied when attempting to speak to parents, other men, and even women. Being labeled a "pussy" was all too easy. Not sure how this pertains to Generation Z'ers though, and if it's gotten any easier for them growing up mainly in the 2000s.
It's actually worse today. The modern day right decided that there aren't enough insults for men that don't conform, so they came up with "cuck" and "soy boy" in addition to the old "pussy".
 

thetrin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,611
Atlanta, GA
I suffer from ongoing depression, and have struggled with thoughts of suicide since I was 15.

I live alone, so my only real outlet is talking to my parents. Mental health really isn't really looked at as "real" medicine here in Japan, so I try my best to stay open to conversation with close friends, but there's only so much they're willing to listen to.

It's tough.
 

AnansiThePersona

Started a revolution but the mic was unplugged
Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
I do believe we do need to focus on weeding out toxic masculinity in boys at a young age. It's a taught behavior that correlates directly with sexism. Reducing this way of thinking will result in higher levels of empathy for women.
 

KillstealWolf

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,053
Isn't every day already International Mens Day?

I read that some places also call it International Toilet Day. That might be a noble cause, apparantly one in three people don't have access to a toilet in the world.

Still, if we can take down Toxic Masculanity on this day. I suppose that's a good purpose as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,092
Sweden
internationella_mansdagen_5a11b3da9606ee4f76245409.jpg

November 19th: International Mens Day

March 8th: International Womens Day

In bubbles: "Why is there no mens day?" / "Guys are capable too, you know!" / "Discrimination!" / "What about the men? Who cares about them!?"
 

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
28,971
Wrexham, Wales
It's understandable that some will see it as a bit snide to make a men's day as "every day is a men's day", but if it helps foreground mental health awareness for men then it's definitely worthwhile.

I'm dealing with a housemate at the moment who has some pretty debilitating mental health problems and his family are total shits about it, basically just telling him to "be a man".
 
Sep 12, 2018
19,846
This is actually a big reason why feminism is important for improving the quality of men's lives too. Most of these issues that disproportionately affect men would never have even been brought up if we weren't already in the process of addressing systemic gender inequality. Feminism is shining a light on all societal injustices, not just those that are experienced by women. It's important that we talk about all of them.
Good documentary on this:

 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
Good documentary on this:


This seems really good, might have to give it a watch later.

Can't help but notice that they never actually use the phrase "toxic masculinity" in that trailer, despite that being exactly what they're talking about. Shame how some people will just fold up and start regurgitating talking points from their favorite ignorant Youtubers whenever they hear that phrase, despite agreeing that it's a bad thing that hurts men.
 

Soneji

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,454
Yet men also make up the majority of violent offenders, rapists, terrorists etc

And sorry to hear about your issues OP but the ones who designed it so you can't show emotion without being shamed for it are also men unfortunately.

Reading about the numerous kidnappings, murders and unsolved mysteries both historic and current committed by men honestly make it difficult for me not to think there are a lot more bad than good.
So your message to OP is sorry not sorry, men created the problems you deal with so you're on your own. You're part of the problem.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
So your message to OP is sorry not sorry, men created the problems you deal with so you're on your own. You're part of the problem.

Nope, people like OP are the hope I have that there are still enough good guys out there to not give up on men completely.

But the majority of our male dominated societies do more harm than good for those suffering mental or emotional issues. We need to confront these problems differently for a better future.
 

Deleted member 40953

user requested account closure
Banned
Mar 12, 2018
1,062
Yet men also make up the majority of violent offenders, rapists, terrorists etc

And sorry to hear about your issues OP but the ones who designed it so you can't show emotion without being shamed for it are also men unfortunately.

Reading about the numerous kidnappings, murders and unsolved mysteries both historic and current committed by men honestly make it difficult for me not to think there are a lot more bad than good.
Such a stupid and completely irrelevant thing to say.
 

Mcjmetroid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,843
Limerick, Ireland
Yet men also make up the majority of violent offenders, rapists, terrorists etc

And sorry to hear about your issues OP but the ones who designed it so you can't show emotion without being shamed for it are also men unfortunately.

Reading about the numerous kidnappings, murders and unsolved mysteries both historic and current committed by men honestly make it difficult for me not to think there are a lot more bad than good.

I'm not sure what you were expecting from this comment but it's irrelevant to the thread and absolutely insulting.
What are you expecting from a comment like that?

This thread is designed to talk about issues plaguing men. Higher suicide rates, mental issues etc
Telling men that their problem is being a man and "the majority of our male dominated societies do more harm than good" is not helping.

Talk about being part of the problem, wow.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,970
Canada
Yet men also make up the majority of violent offenders, rapists, terrorists etc

And sorry to hear about your issues OP but the ones who designed it so you can't show emotion without being shamed for it are also men unfortunately.

Reading about the numerous kidnappings, murders and unsolved mysteries both historic and current committed by men honestly make it difficult for me not to think there are a lot more bad than good.

Just because every good deed a man does isnt documented like crimes are, doesn't mean there are more shitty men.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
I'm not sure what you were expecting from this comment but it's irrelevant to the thread and absolutely insulting.
What are you expecting from a comment like that?

This thread is designed to talk about issues plaguing men. Higher suicide rates, mental issues etc
Telling men that their problem is being a man and "the majority of our male dominated societies do more harm than good" is not helping.

Talk about being part of the problem, wow.

Talking about why men can't seek help for their own mental health and discussing the reasons such as toxic masculinity being one cause is 'not helping'?

I thought it would be a major point to focus on but okay.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,846
Mount Airy, MD
I'm not sure what you were expecting from this comment but it's irrelevant to the thread and absolutely insulting.
What are you expecting from a comment like that?

This thread is designed to talk about issues plaguing men. Higher suicide rates, mental issues etc
Telling men that their problem is being a man and "the majority of our male dominated societies do more harm than good" is not helping.

Talk about being part of the problem, wow.

I don't agree. Talking about our issues as men is important, but it's almost important to acknowledge that for both men and women, other men are the primary problem and danger when it comes to shaping society in shitty ways, violently attacking others, etc.

Like, "70% of homicide victims are men". This is worth discussing, but it's also worth mentioning that the vast majority of homicide perpetrators are *also* men.
 

Jeff Albertson

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,670
Thank fuck for that, as a straight white man it's about time I got my time!

Mental health issues are finally being taken more seriously it seems, I was suffering anxiety badly earlier this year, finally approached a doctor and work about it and felt much better (medicinally aided) as a result

I'm a bloke from the north of England so the usual feelings around it tend to be 'man up'
 

Deleted member 32374

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
8,460
Nothing wrong with having a day that highlights and focuses on Men's health and other issues.

Lets just say that I had my problems in the past and I've got countless scars to remind me. My male friends ended up being mostly useless when it came to helping me and nothing has changed much in that regard over the years, even though I've been in a good place for the past 7-8 years.

Also, 1 in 2 cancer rates... welp, I know how I'm gonna go at this rate....
 

Deleted member 6733

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,441
Today is International Men's Day.

http://internationalmensday.com/

On November 19 International Men's Day celebrates worldwide the positive value men bring to the world, their families and communities. We highlight positive role models and raise awareness of men's well-being.

Having been through a tough time lately, being the sole money earner in my family and facing difficult times at home and work, it's good to see some appreciation and understanding of challenges facing men. I regularly tell my sons it's OK to show emotion and talk about their problems. The trouble was, I didn't listen to my own advice and regularly built up negative feelings and didn't talk to anyone about it. Thankfully my Wife saw what wasn't happening and made me talk to her.
The statistics of male suicide & male workplace deaths are shocking.
Whether you're male or female, please take the time to pick up on the signs of someone in distress. And if you are going through a tough time, please talk to someone!

PS. This is not a sensible way to mark the day. SMH.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheEllenShow/status/1064575934294978560?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet
I don't know how to embed tweets :(

Edit: Sorry mods for duplicate thread. I searched and didn't get any results :|
 
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johan

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,554
The cancer rate is probably because of prostate cancer which is relatively easy to treat afaik

Check yo prostates
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,626
Canada
I don't agree. Talking about our issues as men is important, but it's almost important to acknowledge that for both men and women, other men are the primary problem and danger when it comes to shaping society in shitty ways, violently attacking others, etc.

Like, "70% of homicide victims are men". This is worth discussing, but it's also worth mentioning that the vast majority of homicide perpetrators are *also* men.
What you did right here, is the equivalent of a man coming into an international women's day thread and pointing out the statistics that OP posted.

You "Well Actually..."'d this thread pretty hard.
 

jacket

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,974
I suffer from ongoing depression, and have struggled with thoughts of suicide since I was 15.

I live alone, so my only real outlet is talking to my parents. Mental health really isn't really looked at as "real" medicine here in Japan, so I try my best to stay open to conversation with close friends, but there's only so much they're willing to listen to.

It's tough.
I understand this.
 

Deleted member 5853

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,725
In theory, this day is a good idea. After all, men do face institutional issues that suck: toxic masculinity, traditional gender roles, uphill battles when fighting for custody, and so on.

In practice, considering most every day is Men's Day, I don't think the majority of people celebrating this day are going to be celebrating it in good faith. You can just look at the responses to Ellen's tweet:
  • Imagine my shock - a lesbian feminist that resents men! Sorry that you feel the need to denigrate IMD and all the wonderful things it represents, such as tackling the male suicide rate.
  • Thanks for using this day to objectify men instead bringing awareness to mental health and suicide prevention.
  • Imagine if we did the same for women on international women's day. Imagine the backlash. Could've used your show to talk about the actual issues today is about.
To be frank, I don't see the purpose of this day. There already exists a National Mental Health Day, why does there need to be a National Mental Health for Men Day?
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
There are too many "holidays" appreciating things that simply don't need appreciating.
 

LucidMomentum

Member
Nov 18, 2017
3,645
The cancer rate is probably because of prostate cancer which is relatively easy to treat afaik

Check yo prostates

A lot of men don't visit the doctor because it can be seen as a sign of weakness.

So that's something related to Toxic Masculinity that needs to be worked on.

There are too many "holidays" appreciating things that simply don't need appreciating.

Eh, it's more for awareness than anything. I can see this getting kinda toxic as a lot of male focused movements can.
 
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