Destiny 2 |OT| Guardians Make Their Own Fate

Dez_ · Nov 29, 2017

Gotta admit, this whole thing regarding all the recent backlashes with microtransactions and stuff has been pretty fascinating to watch. I really hope Bungie isn't going to just address the lootbox stuff, because it does kind of feel like that was the catalyst to spark this whole issue. I'm really curious to see what their response is to all this.

JohnOfMars · Nov 29, 2017

Heaven help me, but I posted on Gaming Side in a Destiny thread. But I want to make the point here too, so here goes:

Folks, what if Destiny has always been bad?

#forever29
#rexurbishing
#thornTLWmeta
#80%infusion
#weaponpartsnerf
#290errr270spindles
#SRL320helmet
#crimsonsuicidesfor320ghosts
#nodecemberbalanceupdate
#shotgunnerfs
#sidearmmeta
#stickynades
#twotokensandablue

Or... there's always been some good and some bad in every phase of Destiny's life.

D1 was a hot mess throughout its entire existence and Bungie and the community both struggled with it. The talent grids, the weapon systems, the perks, the progression system. None of it was elegant or cohesive. But there was magic there. Magic that kept us coming back. Not too mention a great community. D1 at every stage should not have worked, but it did, almost despite itself.

People hate change and all these reactions are evidence of that. Destiny 2 is absolutely not a bad game, or even a bad Destiny game. It's just not D1. Bungie is not incompetent. They're building something different. It's okay not to like that or want changes or improvement. There is definitely stuff to fix, whatever your opinion of the game. Complain all you want, but the melodrama and the lack of good faith in each other and Bungie is frankly horrifying.

We're better than this.

Kane1345 · Nov 29, 2017

Can anyone help me? I'm trying the trial with my girlfriend and for the life of me we can't work out how to make a fireteam together. She's my friend on battle.net but in the director she's not showing up and the battle.net app describes each of us as being "online". Are you not allowed to play with friends in the trial?

DrROBschiz · Nov 29, 2017

HoWolves was Peak Destiny

I stand by that

I did enjoy Taken King (event though they dropped what made HoW great by taking too long to make old end game content relevant again)

RoI was a mixed bag but not awful

So yeah Destiny HAS been good

PintFullofTokens · Nov 29, 2017

It will be interesting to see how everything ends up today and tomorrow (with maintenance).

I've been watching the community(s) the last few weeks and I'm just thinking how rough it must have been for Bungie. Don't get me wrong - Mistakes were definitely made in development of D2. And how they have communicated on these issues have not been the best. But some of the toxicity from some of the communities is unreal. And, truth be told, I get it. I've been upset, I've ranted. But attacking developers like some people are doing is something I don't understand.

Destiny 1 and 2 have been games that I have thoroughly enjoyed. Have they had problems? Absolutely. If I've felt like I've done everything I wanted to do in Destiny, I take a break. I try to leave constructive feedback on the forums. But since it isn't a hot take, it doesn't get noticed. Once DLC is in, I'll check it out and my have fun with it.

Sorry for the venting. I saw some replies on the Bungie Help tweet regarding maintenance tomorrow that really grinded my gears.

Anastasis · Nov 29, 2017

Kane1345 said:
Can anyone help me? I'm trying the trial with my girlfriend and for the life of me we can't work out how to make a fireteam together. She's my friend on battle.net but in the director she's not showing up and the battle.net app describes each of us as being "online". Are you not allowed to play with friends in the trial?

Are you playing on the same region server?

Zereta · Nov 29, 2017

JohnOfMars said:
We're better than this.

That's the secret, John. We're not.

It's how we are as a community, not just Destiny. But every one of them. Sure, huge elements are positive, constructive. Huge parts of the community don't even engage with any part of this nonsense. But a lot of us? We get angry, frustrated, upset and instead of being critical, constructive and fair, we choose to be entitled, negative, harsh and monstrous.

It's always been this way.

I am cautiously optimistic about today's blog post. I don't expect the community at large to change their tune. Kudos to the game developers who go into work everyday to work on games that they will never truly be appreciated for, good or bad.

Even games you think are bad take a lot of work to make, people. A lot of work by people like you or I, with families and problems of their own.

Kane1345 · Nov 29, 2017

Anastasis said:
Are you playing on the same region server?

Yup, we're both on the European server.

JohnOfMars · Nov 29, 2017

DrROBschiz said:
HoWolves was Peak Destiny

I stand by that

Remember TLW and Thorn being the only viable guns in Crucible?
Remember not being able to buy weapon parts?
Remember grinding planetary mats?
Remember having to turn in bounties to level up a gun because you couldn't use motes of light?
Remember Skolas never giving elemental primaries?
Remember Skolas not having checkpoints?
Remember Skolas with Solar Burn?
Remember no raid?
Remember grinding strikes to try to get a Hopscotch?
Remember the first 4 weeks of PoE armor being all strength?
Remember that the only guns anyone ever used were Fatebringer, Black Hammer, Gjallarhorn?
Remember grinding Nightfalls for a Gjallarhorn and not getting it?
Remember getting Gjallarhorn the week after they nerfed it but before Xur sold it again?
Remember only being able to hold like 4 bounties?
Remember having to return to the tower to turn them in?
Remember Trials being a clusterfuck of Sunsingers with The Ram?
Remember...

I could go on...

If your point is to say that any era of Destiny is bad, I can make that case. I can also make the case than any era of Destiny is the best.

Anastasis · Nov 29, 2017

Kane1345 said:
Yup, we're both on the European server.

Have you both played enough of the story? I think you need to play until you get your powers back if I'm not mistaken.

Kane1345 · Nov 29, 2017

Anastasis said:
Have you both played enough of the story? I think you need to play until you get your powers back if I'm not mistaken.

Yup, we both have powers back and when we got back to the farm after that mission we saw many other new players.

Anastasis · Nov 29, 2017

Kane1345 said:
Yup, we both have powers back and when we got back to the farm after that mission we saw many other new players.

That is strange. You should be good to go. In fact, when you go back to the farm, it should say you can play with others.

Hold tab to go to the director and see your friends' list on the roster tab. Left click her name and then invite to fireteam. I think that is how to do it (trying from memory).

Karl2177 · Nov 29, 2017

Kane1345 said:
Yup, we both have powers back and when we got back to the farm after that mission we saw many other new players.

You have to talk to Devrim and get the first adventure to appear on the map. Then you can join each other's party.

DrROBschiz · Nov 29, 2017

JohnOfMars said:
Remember TLW and Thorn being the only viable guns? Nope!

Remember not being able to buy weapon parts? Nope!

Remember grinding planetary mats? Nope!

Remember having to turn in bounties to level up a gun because you couldn't use motes of light? yup!

Remember Skolas never giving elemental primaries? Skolas was endgame

Remember Skolas not having checkpoints? Yeah... but I fucking loved PoE mastery

Remember Skolas with Solar Burn? Yup!

Remember no raid? House of Wolves made the previous raids relevant which was amazing for me since I had never run them and had no trouble finding people to run with me!

Remember grinding strikes to try to get a Hopscotch? You didn't NEED this gun. Just use Thorn/TLW ;P

Remember the first 4 weeks of PoE armor being all strength? Who cares?

Remember that the only guns anyone ever used were Fatebringer, Black Hammer, Gjallarhorn? Not true. I used a shit ton of guns

Remember grinding Nightfalls for a Gjallarhorn and not getting it? Nope never owned one before rise of Iron. I just used Truth and no one gave me shit

Remember getting Gjallarhorn the week after they nerfed it but before Xur sold it again? nope!

Remember only being able to hold like 4 bounties? yeah.....

Remember having to return to the tower to turn them in? yuuuppp

Remember Trials being a clusterfuck of Sunsingers with The Ram? I never played trials. That shits for tryhards

Remember...

I could go on...

If your point is to say that any era of Destiny is bad, I can make that case. I can also make the case than any era of Destiny is the best.

ILL PLAY!!

JohnOfMars · Nov 29, 2017

I loved HoW too, FWIW DrROBschiz. I can do the same for anyone's list of complaints for D2. That's my point.

DrROBschiz · Nov 29, 2017

JohnOfMars said:
I loved HoW too, FWIW DrROBschiz. I can do the same for anyone's list of complaints for D2. That's my point.

I think the lesson im learning is that they never perfectly iterate

You always end up having long lists of Pros vs Cons

Im not sure they could ever truly consolidate every good idea they have ever had and remove all the junk

but I wouldn't mind a 70/30 split in our favor at least lol

FaceHugger · Nov 29, 2017

I poked around and couldn't find an ETA for that blog post. Good thing I'm working from home today, I can check in every-or-so on their blog to see what's up.

JohnOfMars · Nov 29, 2017

DrROBschiz said:
I think the lesson im learning is that they never perfectly iterate

You always end up having long lists of Pros vs Cons

WipedOut · Nov 29, 2017

JohnOfMars said:
Remember TLW and Thorn being the only viable guns in Crucible?

Remember not being able to buy weapon parts?

Remember grinding planetary mats?

Remember having to turn in bounties to level up a gun because you couldn't use motes of light?

Remember Skolas never giving elemental primaries?

Remember Skolas not having checkpoints?

Remember Skolas with Solar Burn?

Remember no raid?

Remember grinding strikes to try to get a Hopscotch?

Remember the first 4 weeks of PoE armor being all strength?

Remember that the only guns anyone ever used were Fatebringer, Black Hammer, Gjallarhorn?

Remember grinding Nightfalls for a Gjallarhorn and not getting it?

Remember getting Gjallarhorn the week after they nerfed it but before Xur sold it again?

Remember only being able to hold like 4 bounties?

Remember having to return to the tower to turn them in?

Remember Trials being a clusterfuck of Sunsingers with The Ram?

Remember...

I could go on...

If your point is to say that any era of Destiny is bad, I can make that case. I can also make the case than any era of Destiny is the best.

Those are not the same as "Two Primaries" Bad. I've held firm all this time Two Primaries was a mistake.

SlenderBeans · Nov 29, 2017

I love Destiny, and I love this community that was brought together because of Destiny. We're in some hard times right now, but I'm here to stick around until the game is unplayable.

Kane1345 · Nov 29, 2017

Anastasis said:
That is strange. You should be good to go. In fact, when you go back to the farm, it should say you can play with others.

Hold tab to go to the director and see your friends' list on the roster tab. Left click her name and then invite to fireteam. I think that is how to do it (trying from memory).

It did say I could play with others and I have been able to invite random people on the farm to my team but still not able to see my girlfriend on the friends list.

Karl2177 said:
You have to talk to Devrim and get the first adventure to appear on the map. Then you can join each other's party.

I talked to Devrim and did his adventure mission and we still cannot see or join each other.

Thanks for the help guys btw, I'm pretty sure this is either a bug or that playing with friends is not allowed in the trial.

Ruthless · Nov 29, 2017

Kane1345 said:
Thanks for the help guys btw, I'm pretty sure this is either a bug or that playing with friends is not allowed in the trial.

Are both of you on the same internet connection while playing D2?

SmartWaffles · Nov 29, 2017

Kane1345 said:
It did say I could play with others and I have been able to invite random people on the farm to my team but still not able to see my girlfriend on the friends list.

I talked to Devrim and did his adventure mission and we still cannot see or join each other.

Thanks for the help guys btw, I'm pretty sure this is either a bug or that playing with friends is not allowed in the trial.

There is an emblem for playing with a trial player, so maybe teaming up is limited to a full player + a trial player?

Ruze789 · Nov 29, 2017

FaceHugger said:
I poked around and couldn't find an ETA for that blog post. Good thing I'm working from home today, I can check in every-or-so on their blog to see what's up.

DeeJ said in a tweet:

I'd forecast it at about the same time as an F5. We'll set better expectations tomorrow.

Which usually happen anywhere from 4-7pm Eastern.

Nome · Nov 29, 2017

SmartWaffles said:
There is an emblem for playing with a trial player, so maybe teaming up is limited to a full player + a trial player?

That'd be a pretty bizarre design decision. Most likely just a bug.

Kane1345 · Nov 29, 2017

Ruthless said:
Are both of you on the same internet connection while playing D2?

We are indeed. Is this a problem? We use the same internet connection to play on Overwatch together

Buttchin-n-Bones · Nov 29, 2017

The Dude said:
Yea pretty much... Also I'm being a bit hyperbolic, I don't want to see anyone fired but those who make poor decisions need some sort of accountability. People want great gaming and having guys who make bad decisions is not helping the cause one bit. If people want games to get better the folks that are making some of the horrible decisions need demoted at the very least, you need people in there that have a clue what's going on, that's my gist.

Edit: wow I got a warning for simply exaggerating? Geez

Your warning was completely justified. You can criticize a company's decision-making process without being an unsympathetic asshole. Or, at least, I hope you can.

Ruthless · Nov 29, 2017

Kane1345 said:
We are indeed. Is this a problem? We use the same internet connection to play on Overwatch together

Yes, most likely. Since Destiny 1, playing on the same internet connection has caused issues for the players. Unable to join each other, frequent error and disconnections.
There should be a post on reddit or the official forums about ways around it.

If you're both on WiFi, trying having one PC be on Ethernet, it may help.

HiredN00bs · Nov 29, 2017

WipedOut said:
Those are not the same as "Two Primaries" Bad. I've held firm all this time Two Primaries was a mistake.

I mean, making a game that undid compelling key ingredients from Halo is a "mistake", in that I don't have as much fun playing Destiny PvP as I did Halo, but I'm not going to call it "bad". It's a design change that brings pros and cons, like any other. What are the design changes you like about the kinetic/energy/power archetype?

optimus8936 · Nov 29, 2017

Deej said Bungie are planning for an "afternoon deadline", around the same time TWABs get posted

https://twitter.com/DeeJ_BNG/status/935933247036329984

Not Spaceghost · Nov 29, 2017

two primaries should never have happened, it feels awful walking around with two of the same gun. I suspect that the reason it happened was that they wanted energy weapons to matter vs shields but they didn't want people to be screwed out of the fight if they only had an energy power weapon and no ammo.

Should have been:

Rifles/ HCs / Side arms / SMGs in slot 1
Shotgun / Snipers / Grenade launchers / Fusion rifles in slot 2
Rockets / Swords / linear fusion rifles in slot 3

With tweaks to regular fusion rifles and Grenade launchers to make them fit in slot 2

This way you have your workhorse gun
Your situational gun
And your shit needs to die now gun

Sulik2 · Nov 29, 2017

I've been playing a bunch of Warframe lately and all I can think while playing it is there must be some alternate universe where Destiny's gameplay is married to all the systems in Warframe and the greatest game ever exists. Seriously, matchmaking in every mission, random loot, crafting, trading, randomized missions, meaningful melee, warframe has everything systems wise Destiny is missing, it just doesn't have good gunplay. I'm really surprised Bungie didn't take more inspiration from Warframe with D2.

Deleted member 4541 · Nov 29, 2017

optimus8936 said:
Deej said Bungie are planning for an "afternoon deadline", around the same time TWABs get posted

https://twitter.com/DeeJ_BNG/status/935933247036329984

Came looking for info on this, thanks.

Fingers crossed for good news, lord help us if it ends up being a shit show.

AerialFox · Nov 29, 2017

JohnOfMars said:
Heaven help me, but I posted on Gaming Side in a Destiny thread. But I want to make the point here too, so here goes:

Folks, what if Destiny has always been bad?

#forever29
#rexurbishing
#thornTLWmeta
#80%infusion
#weaponpartsnerf
#290errr270spindles
#SRL320helmet
#crimsonsuicidesfor320ghosts
#nodecemberbalanceupdate
#shotgunnerfs
#sidearmmeta
#stickynades
#twotokensandablue

Or... there's always been some good and some bad in every phase of Destiny's life.

D1 was a hot mess throughout its entire existence and Bungie and the community both struggled with it. The talent grids, the weapon systems, the perks, the progression system. None of it was elegant or cohesive. But there was magic there. Magic that kept us coming back. Not too mention a great community. D1 at every stage should not have worked, but it did, almost despite itself.

People hate change and all these reactions are evidence of that. Destiny 2 is absolutely not a bad game, or even a bad Destiny game. It's just not D1. Bungie is not incompetent. They're building something different. It's okay not to like that or want changes or improvement. There is definitely stuff to fix, whatever your opinion of the game. Complain all you want, but the melodrama and the lack of good faith in each other and Bungie is frankly horrifying.

We're better than this.

Spot on John

Really hope they aren't thinking about changing the weapons, sniper spam was horrible

Bunta · Nov 29, 2017

Destiny 2 is currently $26 on Amazon..hmmm, I'm tempted.

Nome · Nov 29, 2017

Sulik2 said:
I've been playing a bunch of Warframe lately and all I can think while playing it is there must be some alternate universe where Destiny's gameplay is married to all the systems in Warframe and the greatest game ever exists. Seriously, matchmaking in every mission, random loot, crafting, trading, randomized missions, meaningful melee, warframe has everything systems wise Destiny is missing, it just doesn't have good gunplay. I'm really surprised Bungie didn't take more inspiration from Warframe with D2.

Warframe is a fully-realized F2P GaaS, which means their development is highly dependent on running a good live operation. They're respondent to data and player needs because their business model is dependent on it.

Destiny, on the other hand, is still a traditional boxed product. I'd imagine that the most important metric for them is units sold, and they're kicking ass there. It's not until they get DLC attach rates to compare to D1 that they'll start thinking hard--or at least, that was likely the plan before the media blowup. Chalk it up to a difference in developmental methodology.

Kane1345 · Nov 29, 2017

Ruthless said:
Yes, most likely. Since Destiny 1, playing on the same internet connection has caused issues for the players. Unable to join each other, frequent error and disconnections.
There should be a post on reddit or the official forums about ways around it.

If you're both on WiFi, trying having one PC be on Ethernet, it may help.

Thank you very much for the information!

Karl2177 · Nov 29, 2017

Kane1345 said:
It did say I could play with others and I have been able to invite random people on the farm to my team but still not able to see my girlfriend on the friends list.

I talked to Devrim and did his adventure mission and we still cannot see or join each other.

Thanks for the help guys btw, I'm pretty sure this is either a bug or that playing with friends is not allowed in the trial.

Darn. That's what the issue was when my friend and I were trying to play together. It could be what people are saying about being in the same network, but I'll try and confirm that tonight with my roommate.

Ruthless · Nov 29, 2017

This is the new map on Titan called "Pacifica." It will launch as a Playstation exclusive.

Klyka · Nov 29, 2017

Ruthless said:

Playstation exclusive

Nome · Nov 29, 2017

I'm... okay with that being PS4 exclusive.
Map design looks like a maze. Tons of tight spaces and too much verticality in some areas. No major landmarks.

PhaZe 5 · Nov 29, 2017

Ruthless said:

Really like the look of that map. The hand cannon on the other hand...looked like it was doing next to no damage. Wtf?

Ruthless · Nov 29, 2017

Both new maps are patrol zones from Titan.

PhaZe 5 · Nov 29, 2017

Ruthless said:
Both new maps are patrol zones from Titan.

wat

you mean like... 1 for 1?

Nome · Nov 29, 2017

PhaZe 5 said:
Really like the look of that map. The hand cannon on the other hand...looked like it was doing next to no damage. Wtf?

Sidearm (Last Hope clone) did 20/26 per shot, 60/78 per burst.
Handcannon did 31/47 per shot.

Yeah... pretty big gulf in effectiveness.
Better Devils/OId Fashioned are 45/61 per shot, for comparison.

Klyka · Nov 29, 2017

PhaZe 5 said:
wat

you mean like... 1 for 1?

nah, that part shown there in the video is no where on Titan

-PXG- · Nov 29, 2017

Ruthless said:

The other team got their souls shit on from orbit. Goddamn. Just drop the game and play something else.

That's an ass whoopin they'll feel in the afterlife. Fuck me...

Karl2177 · Nov 29, 2017

Klyka said:
Playstation exclusive

Seriously. When are we going to be done with this shit?

Klyka · Nov 29, 2017

IGN has videos of two maps, Pacifica and Wormhaven and says that Wormhaven is the Playstation exclusive map.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/11/29/destiny-2-the-new-curse-of-osiris-pvp-maps-are-a-blast

Ruthless · Nov 29, 2017

Klyka said:
IGN has videos of two maps, Pacifica and Wormhaven and says that Wormhaven is the Playstation exclusive map.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/11/29/destiny-2-the-new-curse-of-osiris-pvp-maps-are-a-blast

Well, one of them is PS exclusive, at least that is clear.

The big take from that IGN post though:

The Crucible additions are probably the strongest parts of Destiny 2's Curse of Osiris DLC.

While our build didn't do anything to address fan concerns about the current balance of PVP, they do add compelling new grounds on which to test your skills.

We'll have our full impressions on December 5th when the full Curse of Osiris content releases.

Destiny 2 |OT| Guardians Make Their Own Fate

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