Destiny 2 |OT| Guardians Make Their Own Fate

sxiebonjour said:

Holy crap I cannot believe people are questioning ruthless ever playing D1 haha.

Yeah I understand the moment of chase, but why it has to be exotics? Some exotics are essential to gameplay and missing them significantly degrades fun of playing.
Why cannot the chase be other things? Like prestige or trials armor. These sets takes effort and makes you more outstanding isnt it????

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To say Destiny was never a loot game is just not true. To then tell people to go play D1 and shut up is just childish nonsense. Some folks love Destiny's core mechanics, they just want more depth and challenge. I'm one of them.

Cosmetics are nice but I want something more meaningful. Adept Trials weapons with additional perks, raid gear with perks that help me in the raid. Hell, how about Adept raid weapons, like in AoT? Exotic and legendary quests that are memorable and offer a sense of accomplishment, like the Touch of Malice or Outbreak Prime.

Trakan said:

I agree that there is some good QoL stuff in there, but a lot of it is stuff that should have been in the game from the start and was missing from D1. I was looking for info on stuff like cooldowns and addressing player power. Maybe that's coming with the Sandbox tuning updates, we'll have to see.

Masterwork weapons sound great on paper, but looking at the image provided it looks like the stat bonuses are negligible. It seems like a clip mod is on the Uriel's and it gives you 2 more bullets in the clip. The other mod is for reload speed and it increases it by 10. You likely won't even be able to feel these changes. The generating orbs thing sounds nice until I remembered how artifacts in TTK said they would generate orbs, which was very rarely.

"Tuning exotics" could lead to increased player power but I'm not holding my breath. Most exotics in the game need massive buffs I just don't see them doing.

Another thing I was hoping they would address was how stats were tied into armor. I don't like having to wear a specific set to get specific stats.

The best takeaway from the update is promising more open communication quicker, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Edit: Correct me if I'm wrong but I also didn't see any system like Luke talked about "getting your 13th Better Devils"? Masterworks seems like its own separate thing.

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Yeah I'm doubtful that the masterworks random rolls will actually be like D1. It looks like very minor stat tweaks which isn't going to do anything at all.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyThe...member_to_make_corporate_lives_miserable_not/

Look at this. This is the crap that's completely counterproductive.

Significant changes will come in season 3 and 4. Nobody should have expected anything major for season 2. It just wasn't going to happen.

Destiny is $26 on Amazon. Considering buying it, but I would play by myself as much as possible and would probably not be interested in the end game content. I.e. just playing for the main story arc. This might be a biased thread to ask, but should I go for it?

Wait, why do people dislike the two primaries and a special setup? I can't really remember Destiny's style but I like this way, means I can have an auto rifle feeding off my Actium and choose to have another in my secondary or go something else for playstyle change up.

The Dude said:

See I just find this sentiment to be the biggest issue, it's like gone are the days where someone maybe has to go without for awhile in a game. That's the beauty of games where you grind for your gear because it's a special moment when you finally get that special piece.

Sure when others have it and you don't, that sucks. I went a long ass time without my Ghally and when I finally got it they nerfed it, but that's how the cookie crumbled... I understand that sort of stuff going into a grind style game as I have been doing it since the days of diablo, Everquest etc...

The chase is what makes a grind special, it just does. But you said what I believe Is such a common mentality that it's like grind games can't even be grind games anymore.

I dunno, i don't get why everyone wants it handed to them so easily... I think working for it just makes it more fun

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No you have not answered me yet, why the chase has to be exotics Can't we have substitute that makes hardcore grinder feel accomplished? I have nothing against grinding, in fact even there are few to grinding in current D2, I still love shooting mobs around. But why the grinding has to be tied with exotics?

Eorl said:

Wait, why do people dislike the two primaries and a special setup? I can't really remember Destiny's style but I like this way, means I can have an auto rifle feeding off my Actium and choose to have another in my secondary or go something else for playstyle change up.

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Destiny's style:

Primary: Takes some shots to kill, OP when unbalanced
Secondary: Snipers, Shotguns, Fusion Rifles, SPECIAL weapons. Learn to use and you could make a multikill.
Heavy: Rockets, Sword (in Y2/Y3) Heavy Machineguns, at least used once or twice per match. Wipe the Enemy Team.

Secondary could change the course of the match, Heavy would definitely change it. Become Legend. Elemental properties mattered.

VoG at start? Better have some Void weapons for those Praetorians in VoG HM.

Now?

Primary: NERF gun
Secondary: Colored NERF gun
Special/Heavy: Use it once every hour because only one person gets it now, instead of the whole team. Oh, and snipers are useless.

Heavy just gives you 2 to 3 kills on average, but you never overpower the opponents. Do not pass GO and do not become Legend because you are on equal footing all the time. No "I have this weapon and it is OP".

Elemental shields now? More useless than the Mass Effect 3 ending choices.

Bleh.

-PXG- said:

To say Destiny was never a loot game is just not true. To then tell people to go play D1 and shut up is just childish nonsense. Some folks love Destiny's core mechanics, they just want more depth and challenge. I'm one of them.

Cosmetics are nice but I want something more meaningful. Adept Trials weapons with additional perks, raid gear with perks that help me in the raid. Hell, how about Adept raid weapons, like in AoT? Exotic and legendary quests that are memorable and offer a sense of accomplishment, like the Touch of Malice or Outbreak Prime.

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I totally embrace the idea of adept weapons and raid perks. I just get too confused why people insist grinding has to be tied with exotics.

I've been listening to the podcast as well. It looks like they're moving towards mechanics and activities that will satisfy both hardcore and casual players.

I welcome the exotic-related changes. I've put many hours into this game over the course of a month and only have a handful. I've still never had an exotic power weapon or legs drop for example. It will be nice to be able to finally collect them - any of them. And I think perspective gets lost when appraising these announced changes while only considering one's own perspective. Some of you clearly play many, many more hours than I do, so you've had lots of exotics drop. And many players out there play fewer than me (such as a good friend of mine) and has yet to find more than a few. Then we have to consider how RNG factors into all of this.

So, in the end, I think everything will be fine. Besides, we haven't even gotten a chance to see the changes in action yet.

sxiebonjour said:

No you have not answered me yet, why the chase has to be exotics Can't we have substitute that makes hardcore grinder feel accomplished? I have nothing against grinding, in fact even there are few to grinding in current D2, I still love shooting mobs around. But why the grinding has to be tied with exotics?

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Because they have different degrees of rarity. Exotics were built around the basis of being the pieces of gear that were powerful and prestigious to have, therefore they are supposed to have a chase tied to them. That's most games with this type of gear system.

sxiebonjour said:

I totally embrace the idea of adept weapons and raid perks. I just get too confused why people insist grinding has to be tied with exotics.

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Because exotics are rare and powerful items that shouldn't be easily obtainable. Some should be through engrams and some should be from quests.

I started the trial (PC) and so far have done like, the first post-farm mission. I don't know man.

The controls feel great but I kinda feel like I'm just shooting dudes over and over. Way back in the Destiny 1 beta I got a major Phantasy Star Online moment upon entering the hub and trading gear and stuff, and I'm not really feeling that from the "farm" place here yet. The few new pieces of gear I've gotten just feel like higher numbers and not significant upgrades that visibly alter my affect on the game.

For some reason the game I keep comparing this to is Wolfenstein II, even though they're totally different. Both are games that rely a lot on well-paced action, smooth controls, and upgrade systems. Maybe Wolf II is just more devoted to being a PvE game and that's the scale on which I'm judging it.

I think I might be done with levels and skill points in non-RPGs though. At least levels and skill points as we usually see them these days -- the "spend a skill point on an ability" kind of thing. You can call Destiny 2 an RPG, but its skill system feels more like... Far Cry 4? Again, upgrades don't feel as deep and significant as say, building a character in Dark Souls.

I should probably play more and get into the co-op stuff.

Briefly scanned it, but are they going to say "our bad, pulse rifls suck, buffed" or "our bad, anything thats not nameless midnight buffed" for scouts? Any sandbox changes?

sxiebonjour said:

I totally embrace the idea of adept weapons and raid perks. I just get too confused why people insist grinding has to be tied with exotics.

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But see on the flip side I'm confused how the idea behind exotics since day 1 doesn't automatically make sense to people as to why they shouldn't drop like candy

I just ordered parts to build my very first real PC and some component comes with a copy of Destiny 2. I've already played it on ps4 but I'm pretty excited to see how much better it is at 60+ fps. It'll also time pretty well with the game updates so that'll be nice. Guess I'll have to join a PC clan too.

As for the qol changes, I'm optimistic. Having something to chase in Destiny is huge for me. I was never the type to chase specific builds of guns but still, D2 didn't give me any reason to play after a certain point. I got all the legendaries that mattered and most exotics, even if they suck. Hopefully these changes will help without alienating the group that was content with D2s more basic system.

I don't think I'll ever enjoy this version of crucible though so can't comment on that. It's just dull as fuck.

what eververse stuff is being replaced with season 2.. all of it? as in, every item currently in the packages will be gone forever?

Servbot24 said:

Destiny is $26 on Amazon. Considering buying it, but I would play by myself as much as possible and would probably not be interested in the end game content. I.e. just playing for the main story arc. This might be a biased thread to ask, but should I go for it?

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I have tried playing Destiny and Destiny 2 by myself, which was tolerable, but I personally think the game is best played with friends, as most shooters probably are.

There were a handful of times where I was running around doing public events with other players and that was probably the most enjoyable time.

So I can only imagine how much more fun it would be to share that experience.

The Dude said:

Because they have different degrees of rarity. Exotics were built around the basis of being the pieces of gear that were powerful and prestigious to have, therefore they are supposed to have a chase tied to them. That's most games with this type of gear system.

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-PXG- said:

Because exotics are rare and powerful items that shouldn't be easily obtainable. Some should be through engrams and some should be from quests.

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Because that obviously is not the truth in D2. At towers or PEs, you see all guardians running around rocking all kinds of exotics but much fewer with high end game gears. You even get at least three exotics from merely playing campaign. It is bungie shiftting the idea around exotic. Given this fact, I cannot see any sense in adding accomplishment by grinding for exotics.

i've gone solo in all kinds of shooters that are supposed to be competitive and teamwork oriented, but i've never comes across a pvp game that's as unplayable for solo players as destiny 2. it is so fucking awful in every way. i'm the biggest destiny defender out there, but they have straight up killed half of the game for me. it sucks.

Well, to generalize, a lot of that blog post/info overload was music to my ears as it touched on most of my complaints since about the second week after release of the game. I can't wait to play with these new systems in place.

17 Seconds said:

i've gone solo in all kinds of shooters that are supposed to be competitive and teamwork oriented, but i've never comes across a pvp game that's as unplayable for solo players as destiny 2. it is so fucking awful in every way. i'm the biggest destiny defender out there, but they have straight up killed half of the game for me. it sucks.

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Oh yea, I've posted many times before it's one of the worst overall PvP modes going. And what doesn't help is the way people play it, just 4 guys on each other's back teamshotting, or peeking down cracks of sight lines, strafing back and forth behind walls...its so bad.

You can play solo, but it's not worth the energy it takes to sort of creep around to do so.

They killed the whole excitement of being a Guardian. Original crucible was so fun, I played hundreds of hours and couldn't put it down... Match after match. It was so fun and they absolutely killed it In D2

The Dude said:

Oh yea, I've posted many times before it's one of the worst overall PvP modes going. And what doesn't help is the way people play it, just 4 guys on each other's back teamshotting, or peeking down cracks of sight lines, strafing back and forth behind walls...its so bad.

You can play solo, but it's not worth the energy it takes to sort of creep around to do so.

They killed the whole excitement of being a Guardian. Original crucible was so fun, I played hundreds of hours and couldn't put it down... Match after match. It was so fun and they absolutely killed it In D2

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and if your teammates around you die with red anywhere on your radar, you are dead too. i'm not sure how good of an idea constant radar is with 4v4.

17 Seconds said:

and if your teammates around you die with red anywhere on your radar, you are dead too. i'm not sure how good of an idea constant radar is with 4v4.

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Yea, if they are hell bent on 4v4 I think removing radar or somehow lessening it would help greatly. Because the other thing is radar doesn't distinguish whether 4 people or one is around the corner, that'd also go a long way to just help a person survive if they aren't running strapped to 3 others.

6v6 just opens the door to more fun imho, because you have various encounters.

The thing is I played plenty of halo and people didn't run in 4 man zergs, so I don't get what or why people do it here to such degrees

Mmk I'll pass for now. Got more than enough games in my backlog anyways.

I guess I'll play a little each night up until December 5th just to try and stockpile even more Legendary Shards. I don't have thousands like many others do. I am going to guess the shard cost of many of these items and functions will be steep.

Just been listening to the podcast for the first 15 minutes it all sounds like they really do know what they need to do from here on out. That they do understand what is going on, and while obviously the changes announced today don't address everything, it was gonna be impossible for it to do that anyway. It makes more sense why they made the changes they did, but they at least get why that isn't working for a decent chunk of current player base. I'm really glad they put out this podcast, still listening!

You know Vigilance Wing is quickly becoming my absolute favorite weapon in the game.
Something about it is just immensely satisfying to use.

Not Spaceghost said:

You know Vigilance Wing is quickly becoming my absolute favorite weapon in the game.
Something about it is just immensely satisfying to use.

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High front-loaded damage, 3-burst kill, 5 crits in a row if you have counterbalance mods! My go-to for PVP.

Not Spaceghost said:

You know Vigilance Wing is quickly becoming my absolute favorite weapon in the game.
Something about it is just immensely satisfying to use.

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It's one of the better pvp weapons, but it requires a certain playstyle. It's great for holding down lanes and line of sight. It's more of a passive weapon. If you have an aggressive playstyle, it can be clunky and difficult to use. It's the main reason I don't really use it too often. Great weapon, but it doesn't fit my playstyle. It's pretty much the only pulse rifle worth using in pvp.

Tha

sxiebonjour said:

Because that obviously is not the truth in D2. At towers or PEs, you see all guardians running around rocking all kinds of exotics but much fewer with high end game gears. You even get at least three exotics from merely playing campaign. It is bungie shiftting the idea around exotic. Given this fact, I cannot see any sense in adding accomplishment by grinding for exotics.

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I remember Luke Smith specifically saying they wanted players to look at one another and understand what they had to go through to earn their loot.

You used to be able to say, "Damn! That guy has a Nanophoenix! Holy shit, that person has a full set of Trials ornaments! Whoa, that dude has a Black Spindle!"

There's no such sensation in Destiny 2. The flawless and Prestige raid sets aren't interesting at all and don't offer any additional benefits. Exotics are generally easy to come by. There aren't any stand outs that require any sort of effort to get them. In Destiny 2, everyone is a winner

Ruthless said:

Hate to break it to you, but you're playing the wrong game. Destiny is neither Diablo, nor The Division.

If you want to get your grind fix, maybe look for another game. I hear Monster Hunter is coming out very soon.

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Sorry, but Destiny is a pretty much looter shooter. No other way around it.

Those games are meant for grinding and I don't see how why any of you are against it. Chasing an elusive and rare powerful weapon is pretty much fun

Hawky said:

Sorry, but Destiny is a pretty much looter shooter. No other way around it.

Those games are meant for grinding and I don't see how why any of you are against it. Chasing an elusive and rare powerful weapon is pretty much fun

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Yea Its a first for me to see some people saying destiny isn't a loot grinder. I mean that's like telling someone to look elsewhere for a platformer than Mario.

Ruthless said:

Hate to break it to you, but you're playing the wrong game. Destiny is neither Diablo, nor The Division.

If you want to get your grind fix, maybe look for another game. I hear Monster Hunter is coming out very soon.

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What? Destiny is absolutely a loot game. Outside of the excellent gunplay I'd argue loot is why the first one was so popular.
Destiny 2 is still a loot game, just a bad one.

Strangelove77 said:

What? Destiny is absolutely a loot game. Outside of the excellent gunplay I'd argue loot is why the first one was so popular.
Destiny 2 is still a loot game, just a bad one.

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A very bad one...

Yeah, I haven't reached the end game in Destiny 2 yet, and only played through TKK in the first one, but I liked how some exotics were hard to get. The memories I have of farming calc frags--digging in every nook and cranny--are priceless. They should be tied to exotics, because exotics are the rarest, most prestigious pieces of equipment you can have. They (help) define your abilities. Hunting for a Claws or HoPF for my warlock gave me something to look forward to. You play the game (pve) with the end goal of clearing the content and assembling your gear. Just handing everything out seems bleh.

If the loot in this game expanded more horizontally, and they made memorable epics with fun / unique qualities (like ToM) that were limited to quests, then I think that would go a long way to pleasing both parties. I understand how frustrating it must be to someone who just wants to pvp, but can't because they're missing a key piece of gear.

edit: In my opinion, Destiny was definitely a loot game. Destiny 2 feels the same (at level 15).

They need to have exotics that are attainable In common objectives like flash points, events. Have more quest related exotics. Have raid only exotics and then have some PvP exotics..

This would cover all basis in tryin for exotics in different areas.

But if they're gonna up the exotic drops then that's just going to be another can of frustrations when people are bugged by how easily they're getting exotics and out if reasons to farm. Which is sort of where we are at now.

Okay, since the XB1 side of Destiny 2 in ERA seems to be non-existant.

Is there a way to purchase the Osiris DLC separately? I just spotted a nice deal on PC and I know I'll be missing out on stuff in a few days, so I'm asking before I switch platforms.

The exotics weapons are just so disappointing for the most part. My favorite, which is Sunshot is pretty much just Fatebringer. They are all just so uninspired. Rat King is actually pretty neat, but it's so niche that there are better sidearms to use. The exotic armor is even worse. Lame perks and they don't look good at all. The more damage you take the faster you get your super! Seriously, that's all they could come up with?

No sense in chasing exotics when they are lame as fuck.

Graviton Lance is a great example. On paper it sounds fucking awesome. It shoots black holes! Then you get it and it just fucking sucks.

AlexBasch said:

Okay, since the XB1 side of Destiny 2 in ERA seems to be non-existant.

Is there a way to purchase the Osiris DLC separately? I just spotted a nice deal on PC and I know I'll be missing out on stuff in a few days, so I'm asking before I switch platforms.

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Hey, Osiris DLC should be going up on the store as a separate purchase for USD19.99 on December 5.

Also some of the xbox users are coming back on december 5 for osiris (see chat in the DestinyERA discord for xbox lfg). I'm on XB1 but i'm currently taking a break from that and using my game time to level up on PC.

ImperatorPat said:

Hey, Osiris DLC should be going up on the store as a separate purchase for USD19.99 on December 5.

Also some of the xbox users are coming back on december 5 for osiris (see chat in the DestinyERA discord for xbox lfg). I'm on XB1 but i'm currently taking a break from that and using my game time to level up on PC.

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I thought it'd be locked behind the season pass or something.

Okay then, so how do I access that discord thing? I got it installed to (very rarely) play with a friend, but I suppose it's like a bigger chat?

Surprised there's so much conversation about the increased exotic chances. Getting an exotic in D2 isn't tough, which isn't too much of a problem, but it's not exciting, and that is a problem. A combination of duplicates (which is unavoidable really, given the relatively low number available) and the fact that they're almost universally disappointing removes the thrill of the drop.

Masterworks could be interesting if the orb drop rate is good (which will make them OP), but with a poor orb generation rate and uninspiring drops I'm not convinced it'll be of much value.

I think I need to read about the token stuff again, because first pass sounded like they're increasing the drop rate and increasing the cost of the engrams alongside it.

Even that doesn't make any difference until there's gear at those vendors that you want to get, and more than once. That still remains perhaps the biggest issue (which was even mentioned by Luke before the launch game - he articulated the problem which we took to mean that they had a solution when it seems he was just thinking out loud) for me. Putting the excitement back into getting gear, and allowing me to wear the gear I like the look of without sacrificing stats (although the effectiveness of stats themselves is another problem) is what I want to see as well as a more diverse list of activities with which to get them.

Milestones lose all meaning when you don't need PL anymore.

I'll temper my disappointment again by saying that I trust Bungie to improve the game over its lifespan, but right now I'm not convinced that I'll be putting too much time into the game until there are more substantial changes or more meaningful things to do on a weekly basis.

it would make a hell of a lot of sense if milestones granted a really high chance of yielding masterworks weapons, im actually fully expecting it, kinda like they have a high chance of dropping exotics

also random thought lol

I'm actually quite looking forward to the armour ornaments, I've missed having that feeling of progression and a guaranteed reward at the end of it. Even if it's only something cosmetic, I'm curious to see how badass some of the armour sets will look once you've unlocked all of the ornaments.

A few questions about masterworks though.
Will there be masterwork version of exotics?
The blog post mentioned increased drop rate of masterwork version of weapons from the raid and trials. But does that mean only for the raid/trials weapons?

Nothing about changes/improvements to PVP or matchmaking besides that penalty for leaving the competitive playlist right? I didn't listen to the podcast.

I'm not invested in this so might be missing something but, they never actually addressed the state of the game or did they?

Mehr said:

I'm not invested in this so might be missing something but, they never actually addressed the state of the game or did they?

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Going forward, yes. It's lots of small short-term changes for now, but for sure a step in the right direction.

AlexBasch said:

I thought it'd be locked behind the season pass or something.

Okay then, so how do I access that discord thing? I got it installed to (very rarely) play with a friend, but I suppose it's like a bigger chat?

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PM JohnOfMars or another Discord mod with a request. Don't forget to check the FAQ channel if you get in to set up your prefs.

Forerunner said:

Great weapon, but it doesn't fit my playstyle. It's pretty much the only pulse rifle worth using in pvp.

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Time-worn Spire is decent too provided you get your first burst off before uriel's/mida's high cal rounds start doing their thing and you have counterbalance mods. It has a really fast TTK and if pulses get a buff I can see it dominating PVP