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Shoot

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Oct 25, 2017
4,532
Wait what?

Opportunity and mandating are two completely different things. The opportunity exists already in the form of advanced french classes. For most, it is functionally unnecessary, and bending over backwards and mandating french immersion (which would also be pretty expensive even before you get to feasibility) to appease people with extreme beliefs in Quebec sounds backwards.

There are tens of social programs I'd rather education and federal funding to go towards before mandating bilingualism.
I think it would be worth the money for national unity and I think it would be a useful language since it is widely spoken in parts of Europe and Africa. Why not cancel art class and replace it with something useful?
English is an important lingua franca. /s


More seriously, learning a second language helps you understand your own language better. There's a lot of stuff about language that people just intuit in their native tongue, and never really understand.


As for how to spread bilingualism effectively, basically every single one of my male cousins and female cousin's husbands learned English from playing video games and now work as Software Engineers in Wrocław, where English is the language they use at work because there are people from all over the EU. Point is, we should give every child in Canada French language video games for free. Not edutainment stuff but stuff they'll actually play. ( I hope the kids like Ubisoft Montreal open-world games.)

This is a very good idea.
 

Mr.Mike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,677
I think it would be worth the money for national unity and I think it would be a useful language since it is widely spoken in parts of Europe and Africa. Why not cancel art class and replace it with something useful?


This is a very good idea.

Considering the sort of bulk discounts you'd get buying 2 to 6 million copies of games/consoles, it might actually be the most effective way to spend a few hundred million dollars on second language education.
 
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Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
Speaking of language, how does everyone feel about teaching indigenous languages in schools across Canada? I know I would have loved to learn Ojibwe or Cree during my secondary school years and beyond were it an option.

Cree was an elective in high school where I was. It generally isn't very consistent due to the elective being dissolved in some years from low participation, but it still exists.

The challenge is that some regions can have multiple indigenous languages and some of them are nearly dead languages like Haida in BC, making them a challenge to learn in a standard school setting.
 

Deleted member 12950

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Watching the US tax bill shitshow going on right now has me pretty grateful for our democratic institutions, particularly political finance and spending limits (well, at least in the grownup provinces), Responsible Government, and political boundaries and elections being administered by non-partisan bodies.
 

Shoot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,532
Watching the US tax bill shitshow going on right now has me pretty grateful for our democratic institutions, particularly political finance and spending limits (well, at least in the grownup provinces), Responsible Government, and political boundaries and elections being administered by non-partisan bodies.
America is a daily reminder of how lucky we are to be Canadian. It is especially salient for immigrants who could have just as easily wound up on the wrong side of the border.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
Cree was an elective in high school where I was. It generally isn't very consistent due to the elective being dissolved in some years from low participation, but it still exists.

The challenge is that some regions can have multiple indigenous languages and some of them are nearly dead languages like Haida in BC, making them a challenge to learn in a standard school setting.
Our school offered Cree as well, but I'm not sure if people took it.
Honestly I'd rather one of those languages be mandatory than French, since the reality is that learning a language one hour a day and not using it any time outside of the classroom means that you're not going to learn the language anyway.
 

Pedrito

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,368
How can it be insider trading when that fiscal measure was in the electoral platform available to everyone?
On December 7 2015, the share price was 14.70. On December 8, after the announcement, it was 14.43. A "giant drop" of 0.27%. The price was dropping since June 2015. Why would raising the rate of the top tax bracket make the stock of a HR firm fall anyway, or be expected to?

There are probably valid things to pin on Morneau, but this new story is absurd. But the populace will eat it up and he will be labeled corrupt and a crook. Dude is probably regretting leaving the private sector. I actually expect many businessmen/women will now think really hard before taking the plunge.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
I think it would be worth the money for national unity and I think it would be a useful language since it is widely spoken in parts of Europe and Africa. Why not cancel art class and replace it with something useful?
I.. don't even know what to say if you think taking what little exposure to the arts children have already is worth sacrificing for a language they will probably not use unless they happen to travel to specific regions of the country or halfway across the world, or for a vague, ill-defined, questionably problematic/imminent, and questionably effective or useful pursuit as "national unity."

If you are serious and not trolling, that is without hyperbole one of the most disappointing perspectives on education I might have ever heard. Bilingualism being valued more from an educational standpoint than the arts.. I'm completely dumbfounded.

Frankly, I'm surprised so many in this thread see such additive value in bilingualism as a cure for the enduring social strife. More is undoubtedly better, but worth the economic investment and as something to bank on for social change? I don't see a good argument for actual efficacy here in a mandate. Especially not when we're talking about relations between mostly physically segregated (and to some degree, governed) regions with distinct cultures. Ingroup effects will remain, and have the potential to even strengthen or move to other forms of ingroup identification, which is typical when members of different groups inhabit the same superordinate groups and tend to assume some similar traits; they find others to differentiate themselves. It'd be especially transparent for something like language, which is not immune to having classism nested within it historically, and I see no reason why it wouldn't be any different with French, let alone any other less-prevalent/useful languages such as Aboriginal/indigenous/first nations (not sure what the appropriate word is as it tends to change, so I apologize if I offend anyone). Language is definitely part of the issue, but it's more of a conflict of culture and power at this point IMO. Especially when here in Ontario I grew up learning french (not french immersion, though) and it doesn't seem to have engendered any real greater empathy for Quebecois, but maybe that's my personal hatred of French class talking.

Admittedly though, I'm biased as an anglophone and a PoC who grew up in a multicultural area, so I have little sympathy for separatist movements or the concept of ethno-states.
 

Hat22

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,652
Canada
Another UCP MLA in Alberta decided on thursday to call the calgary cancer centre a fancy box.It is currently being built in Calgary.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-cancer-centre-van-dijken-1.4429381?cmp=rss

Not surprising that they'd see it as a boondoggle considering that Ralph Klein, their god, is famous for blowing up hospitals.

However, the 200 mil is a real concern that should be addressed and the focus on his language is just silly. He's saying that too much money is being spent on the building, not "to hell with cancer patients".

I think it would be worth the money for national unity and I think it would be a useful language since it is widely spoken in parts of Europe and Africa. Why not cancel art class and replace it with something useful?

Art class isn't something most people would have a use for. It should be an elective.

Francophones have an obvious reason to learn English, the region is a bit depressed and they need it for many jobs.

For Anglophones, the reason is an arbitrary ruling in the constitution that excludes monolingual people, made during a time when the politicians were arguing over some petty issues. Any practical reasoning for this has been made obsolete by technology.
 

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Edmonton, Alberta
Not surprising that they'd see it as a boondoggle considering that Ralph Klein, their god, is famous for blowing up hospitals.

However, the 200 mil is a real concern that should be addressed and the focus on his language is just silly. He's saying that too much money is being spent on the building, not "to hell with cancer patients".



Art class isn't something most people would have a use for. It should be an elective.

Francophones have an obvious reason to learn English, the region is a bit depressed and they need it for many jobs.

For Anglophones, the reason is an arbitrary ruling in the constitution that excludes monolingual people, made during a time when the politicians were arguing over some petty issues. Any practical reasoning for this has been made obsolete by technology.

I get what he was saying about the cancer centre but he shouldn't have used the words fancy box at all in his arguement against the approved bid of the cancer center.
 
Oct 25, 2017
319
Ottawa, Canada
http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...flare-over-share-sale-by-bill-morneaus-father

Morneau coming under fire for allegations of insider trading by himself and his father

This story is absolute nonsense. I'd quote from that story, but then I'd have to paste the entire thing, because it systematically rips the whole thing apart.

But when even the Financial Post is saying there's nothing there -- and their writers have a pretty staunch anti-Liberal stance -- it should tell you that there really is nothing there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
This story is absolute nonsense. I'd quote from that story, but then I'd have to paste the entire thing, because it systematically rips the whole thing apart.

But when even the Financial Post is saying there's nothing there -- and their writers have a pretty staunch anti-Liberal stance -- it should tell you that there really is nothing there.

Thats interesting,i didnt actually have any idea of what to make of it. Its an ongoing joke from one of profs that he reads every NP story and then checks the FP to see if they contradict it.
 

Terrell

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Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
Yeah, the current Morneau allegations are a nothingburger. They're saying it repeatedly in the House to throw mud and then say that they won't mention it anywhere else because they're scared to make the accusation outside the House since it can be held to legal scrutiny as potential defamation. If you're using parliamentary privilege as a shield from scrutiny for such a bold accusation against an MP AND a private citizen and no one with knowledge of the situation outside the House agrees with you, it's dirty scare tactics, plain and simple.
 

hibikase

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Oct 26, 2017
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On paper I'm all for mandatory French classes and immersion in the RoC but in practice I don't expect the RoC to apply that in good faith, so might as well not bother. It would probably end up harming national unity more than improving it.
 
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Deleted member 12950

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Yeah, the current Morneau allegations are a nothingburger. They're saying it repeatedly in the House to throw mud and then say that they won't mention it anywhere else because they're scared to make the accusation outside the House since it can be held to legal scrutiny as potential defamation. If you're using parliamentary privilege as a shield from scrutiny for such a bold accusation against an MP AND a private citizen and no one with knowledge of the situation outside the House agrees with you, it's dirty scare tactics, plain and simple.

I thought Poillvre made a big show Wednesday or Thursday of going outside the house and saying the exact same thing he was saying in the house. I only follow question period when stuff pops up on Twitter from a couple reporters I follow so I could be wrong though.

It's a nothing story and I don't know why the CPC from Morneau clearly circumventing conflict or interest rules to this non-insider training nonsense. If that had run its course for now than move onto something else substantive, don't make stuff up. They sure seem to be pretty incompetent under Scheer.
 
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Gabbo

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Oct 25, 2017
7,565
I thought Poillvre made a big show Wednesday or Thursday of going outside the house and saying the exact same thing he was saying in the house. I only follow question period when stuff pops up on Twitter from a couple reporters I follow so I could be wrong though.

It's a nothing story and I don't know why the CPC from Morneau clearly circumventing conflict or interest rules to this non-insider training nonsense. If that had run its course for now than move onto something else substantive, don't make stuff up. They sure seem to be pretty incompetent under Scheer.
Selecting an MP who doesn't know how to be a politician to be the leader will do that to a party. Morneau isn't perfect and I feel Trudeau will likely replace him in a future cabinet shuffle with someone under less scrutiny but when newspapers that cheerlead for your party are calling you out, maybe, just maybe, the problem isn't Morneau's financial dealings.
 
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Terrell

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Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
I thought Poillvre made a big show Wednesday or Thursday of going outside the house and saying the exact same thing he was saying in the house. I only follow question period when stuff pops up on Twitter from a couple reporters I follow so I could be wrong though.

It's a nothing story and I don't know why the CPC from Morneau clearly circumventing conflict or interest rules to this non-insider training nonsense. If that had run its course for now than move onto something else substantive, don't make stuff up. They sure seem to be pretty incompetent under Scheer.

Nah, Poillvre danced around it but didn't say the "same things" he said in the House of Commons. He did the same thing the CPC always does: make bold claims in the House and then try to present a measured response to the press. Compare and contrast that with Nathan Cullen's strong language in and out of the House regarding how the Liberals created a boondoggle out of electoral reform. It presents a lack of actual conviction by the CPC in general, just hollow sabre-rattling.

The best I can describe the current CPC is that they've confused being "the Opposition" with being "the Antagonist".
 

Deleted member 12950

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Nah, Poillvre danced around it but didn't say the "same things" he said in the House of Commons. He did the same thing the CPC always does: make bold claims in the House and then try to present a measured response to the press. Compare and contrast that with Nathan Cullen's strong language in and out of the House regarding how the Liberals created a boondoggle out of electoral reform. It presents a lack of actual conviction by the CPC in general, just hollow sabre-rattling.

The best I can describe the current CPC is that they've confused being "the Opposition" with being "the Antagonist".



I mean, it's a very cheap stunt by Poilievre (whose name I apparently couldn't spell to save the life of me). "Say it outside" is a pretty empty threat from a minister though, even if Poilievre he had something slanderous I doubt Morneau would actually follow through on a lawsuit because that would open up some things in the public eye that while not illegal, unethical, or even bad could have some bad optics.

But Morneau's right to be indignant at this line of questioning for the reasons laid out in the Coyne column matthewwhatever linked to. Fortuantely for him it completely takes away from Morneau's actual wrongdoing when he shifted his shares to corporation to avoid the ineffectual conflict of interest rules in place.
 

Terrell

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Oct 25, 2017
3,624
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I mean, it's a very cheap stunt by Poilievre (whose name I apparently couldn't spell to save the life of me). "Say it outside" is a pretty empty threat from a minister though, even if Poilievre he had something slanderous I doubt Morneau would actually follow through on a lawsuit because that would open up some things in the public eye that while not illegal, unethical, or even bad could have some bad optics.

But Morneau's right to be indignant at this line of questioning for the reasons laid out in the Coyne column matthewwhatever linked to. Fortuantely for him it completely takes away from Morneau's actual wrongdoing when he shifted his shares to corporation to avoid the ineffectual conflict of interest rules in place.


In all fairness, I can't spell his name right without looking it up, either.

Having heard both his statements in Question Period and to the press, the part I feel seems the most in question is the aspersions cast on Morneau's father and the implied breach of government security that would entail, which I can assure you was not repeated at any point outside the Commons. That coupled with the "I'm just asking" and "I'm not alleging anything" bullshit trolling Poilievre did while dancing around the inflammatory aspects of his questions in the House was ridiculous.

The one thing I can tell you is that this grandstanding by Poilievre is going to ensure that we'll have to learn to spell his name, considering how he's stealing the oxygen from his own party leader to such a degree that I'm surprised he's getting away with it. The way things have been looking in QP, Poilievre could easily be mistaken as the CPC leader by someone who didn't know better.
 
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Caz

Caz

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Cree was an elective in high school where I was. It generally isn't very consistent due to the elective being dissolved in some years from low participation, but it still exists.

The challenge is that some regions can have multiple indigenous languages and some of them are nearly dead languages like Haida in BC, making them a challenge to learn in a standard school setting.

Interesting. I don't think the same issue would exist with teaching Cree given it's one of the most utilized indigenous languages in Canada so long as there was a genuine attempt by a given provincial school board to make it a regular part of primary and secondary education levels with accessible options to continue learning it in a post-secondary facility.
 

Hat22

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Oct 28, 2017
1,652
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So it basically absorbed much of the PQ support?

Alberta should get more nationalistic, if not just to stop the federal government from squeezing it so hard and so the federal government actually listens to its interests. The recent Montreal Mayor thing really showed how much the east doesn't care for the wellbeing of the western provinces.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,161
So it basically absorbed much of the PQ support?

Alberta should get more nationalistic, if not just to stop the federal government from squeezing it so hard and so the federal government actually listens to its interests. The recent Montreal Mayor thing really showed how much the east doesn't care for the wellbeing of the western provinces.
Alberta controlled Canada for a decade so... I think they're good. :p
 

Deleted member 12950

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So it basically absorbed much of the PQ support?

Alberta should get more nationalistic, if not just to stop the federal government from squeezing it so hard and so the federal government actually listens to its interests. The recent Montreal Mayor thing really showed how much the east doesn't care for the wellbeing of the western provinces.

That would be the most empty of empty threats. In no world does landlocked Alberta becoming a separate country from Canada make it easier for it to get resources to tidewater.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
Id rather not have forced french immersion through k-12 here in BC. we have it from grade 7-9 as required i believe.

My reason being, and younger french teachers i know agree, that the way french is taught in BC is fucking awful. Our entire education is fucking awful tho. I doubt anyone i know under 25 with just a highschool education could tell me the 3 PMs before harper. We dont teach history as its own course until fucking grade 12. Its disgraceful people dont know canadian history.

God I hate our education system, the ndp better put a lot of time and money into that
 

gutter_trash

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Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Not much of a silver lining when the CAQ is worst than the PQ in every way. If QS can take the PQ's place, that would be great, but I'm not sure that'll happen.
the PQ are a xenophobic, ethno-nationalist party who pretends to be "Left" but in turn slashes services like a "Right Wing" party and are atogonists to Canadian Unity.

J-F Lisée has doubled downed on Marois nanny state nationalism and Parizeau xenophobia.

PQ are better off extinct.
 
Oct 25, 2017
319
Ottawa, Canada
Question from a non-Quebecer: are CAQ any different than the ADQ? Because from the outside, it seems like they're exactly the same. And given that Dumont couldn't hold that coalition together, is the CAQ leader likely to be more successful?
 

gutter_trash

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Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Question from a non-Quebecer: are CAQ any different than the ADQ? Because from the outside, it seems like they're exactly the same. And given that Dumont couldn't hold that coalition together, is the CAQ leader likely to be more successful?
the CAQ is indeed a repackaged ADQ that claims to be a coalition of nationalists.

the CAQ leader (Legault) is a former PQ MNA who failed to win the 2005 PQ leadership contest then quit politics in 2009 but returned in 2011 to create the CAQ.
He was part of the Right flank of the PQ who preached slashing programs and reducing the debt. (zzzzzzz).

*an important note for those with amnesia, Legault was one of the hardliners in the PQ who wanted a 3rd Refernedum even though he now claims that he doesn't want one as the CAQ leader
 

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Edmonton, Alberta
With how low the PQ are polling lisee will lose his riding on election night likely in a tight three way race. The CAQ can easily win about the same amount of seats the qlp have currently if they win around 36 percent of the vote. Any riding the QLP won by like 15 points on 2014 and the CAQ was in third place with a decent share of the vote or was their main competitor in the riding is in danger of being won by the CAQ at the moment.There are 30 or more ridings in Quebec provincially that fit this description.The PLQ may be in danger of losing ridings they won by 20+ or 25+ points in the 2014 election at the moment to.
 
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hibikase

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The CAQ will continue the time-honored tradition of the ADQ of looking favorable in polls, but then completely failing at the actual elections.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
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Caz

Caz

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The CAQ polling results seem to resemble the OPC support in Ontario's next election, in that it's more centered on who is in power and removing them due to their extensive time in office (RE: The OLC and Wynne) rather than supporting the policies of the party that's receiving said support and/or ignoring all the undesirable qualities of its leaders or the policies they intend to enact. Either way...those polls are concerning if non-francophones don't turn up in significant numbers come the next provincial election.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
voters are stupid, they just want a shiny new object without knowing what it stands for. Just for the sake of "change".

Ironically, the economny and emplomyent numbers are at their best in decades. This whole "throw the bums out" mentaliy is non-sensical when the economy is doing well
 

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Edmonton, Alberta
The CAQ polling results seem to resemble the OPC support in Ontario's next election, in that it's more centered on who is in power and removing them due to their extensive time in office (RE: The OLC and Wynne) rather than supporting the policies of the party that's receiving said support and/or ignoring all the undesirable qualities of its leaders or the policies they intend to enact. Either way...those polls are concerning if non-francophones don't turn up in significant numbers come the next provincial election.
Yeah. If nothing changes the CAQ can seriously win over 50% of the seats with like 35 percent of the vote in Quebec. The PLQ needs to be a bit more competitive with francophones and get lots of non-francophones to vote if they do not want to suffer a historic defeat in the next provincial election.
 
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OP
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Caz

Caz

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Yeah. If nothing changes the CAQ can seriously win over 50% of the seats with like 35 percent of the vote in Quebec. The PLQ needs to be a bit more competitive with francophones and get lots of non-francophones to vote if they do not want to suffer a historic defeat in the next provincial election.

We need to make electoral reform a priority on all levels of government.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Yeah. I find it weird how the CAQ can potentially win near 70 seats in the Quebec National Assembly next year with like 36 percent of the vote.
without a single seat on the Island of Montreal

140408_8f1y4_resultats-election-montreal_sn635.jpg

2014
Dark Blue = PQ
Light Blue = CAQ
 
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Hat22

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Oct 28, 2017
1,652
Canada
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...cumentary-on-kurdish-female-militia-1.4427731



Ive seen and heard of several other Canadian Kurds/non Kurds joining the fight. Its an interesting time for me as a Canadian born Kurd seeing how this all plays out. Especially interesting seeing our forces working directly with Rojavan forces and the Peshmerga.

It's a shame that the west abandoned Kurdistan and stopped caring about the region. Assad's forces finishing off ISIS didn't even make the news.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,624
canada
It's a shame that the west abandoned Kurdistan and stopped caring about the region. Assad's forces finishing off ISIS didn't even make the news.

I cant see a way around it. We need the black sea and thus Turkey. We were supporting both sides who are attacking each other and still are today.

Then theres Iraqi kurdistan which Barzani just left, dont know whats happened with that ill have to look into it but theres a complicated relationship between iraq, erbil, and iran that we have to work around.

Iraqi Kurdistan and Syrian Kurdistan are not enemies nor are they friends. Rojava for a part of it is inspired by and inhabitated by the PKK who are a marxist feminist-kurdish nationalist terrorist organization with the worlds most photogenic leader
 

mo60

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,198
Edmonton, Alberta
without a single seat on the Island of Montreal

140408_8f1y4_resultats-election-montreal_sn635.jpg

2014
Dark Blue = PQ
Light Blue = CAQ
Supposedly they would win a bunch of seats in the montreal suburbs from the PQ and PLQ with 36% of the vote and the way the vote is spilt in the polls currently. They would also be quite competitive in the montreal suburbs to. That should be enough to give them a majority even if they get crushed in all of the seats on the Island of Montreal. Also like 1/4 or more of the ridings in the next election in Quebec will be really important ridings.
 
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gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
Supposedly they would win a bunch of seats in the montreal suburbs from the PQ and PLQ with 36% of the vote and the way the vote is spilt in the polls currently. They would also be quite competitive in the montreal suburbs to. That should be enough to give them a majority even if they get crushed in all of the seats on the Island of Montreal. Also like 1/4 or more of the ridings in the next election in Quebec will be really important ridings.
the 450 suburbs are flippable and are likely to flip if the PQ continues to weaken, you see that sea of Light Blue in the Laurentiens on that image (North Shore)? That used to be hardcore PQ territory.
Those Dark Blues on the South Shore are filppable to the CAQ including that Red one in Laprairie.
 
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