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The Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader scene is so bad

MillionIII

MillionIII

Banned
Sep 11, 2018
6,816
After the amazing climax in episode 3 obi-wan finally meets Darth Vader and commences the most awkward encounter ever. Vader says: "hey man been a long time" obi-wan: "you're bad"(his sickest burn yet).
Uh really? He sliced your legs, burned your body and took your kids and this is what you have to say Anakin?!

Anyway, they continue to flop their lightsabers together like they never touched those things, and obi-wan does those "what's up?!?" tactical movements which the Jedi are known for, this guy was protecting Luke for 20 years after all.
Then he says "if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine"
Vader should've laughed at this point. How can he be MORE powerful if he's dead?!?

Then of course he kills him because for whatever reason he decided that he had enough and Vader steps on him. The end.
 
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El Bombastico

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,005
MillionIII said:
After the amazing climax in episode 3 obi-wan finally meets Darth Vader and commences the most awkward encounter ever. Vader says: "hey man been a long time" obj-wan: "you're bad".
Uh really? He sliced your legs, burned your body and took your kids and this is what you have to say Anakin?!
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Yet more proof that whatever backstory Lucas had in his head back in the 70s was a hundred times better than the half-assed drivel he sat out for the prequels.
 
subpar spatula

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
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Oct 26, 2017
22,065
I remember watching that as a kid and even I knew I could beat them both. 2 frail, old men were so strong on many people's eyes.
 
Kain

Kain

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
7,592
Well Guinness was tired of playing the character at that point and wanted to wrap things up in the worst possible way. And he succeed.
 
The Silver

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,703
Is displays the incredible tactical insight of Vader by fighting Obi Wan in a place where he was unable to obtain the high ground. When Luke obtained the high ground against him in ROTJ he immediately recognized this maneuver and remarked that Obi Wan had taught him well.
 
matrix-cat

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
I mean, the real answer is that none of this had been conceived in 1977. Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker being the same guy was, like most Star Wars canon, only dreamt up after the first movie was made.

If you absolutely must complain about lore inconsistency in Star Wars (and please god don't), complain that the new stuff doesn't match up with the old, not the other way around :P
 

Deleted member 26156

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,579
It's ratger cheesy today, but that's just because of its age. For what the original Star Wars is, the lightsaber duel does its job well enough.

Also if you really think the prequels were planned out 20-30 years in advance... just no. That would be absurd.
 
ClickyCal'

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,431
ZiggyPalffyLA said:
You've gotta remember, it's 2 old men fighting at that point. Don't expect some Yoda flips.
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I mean
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z0m3le

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
There is the deleted part of the prequel fight scene that shows a bit more about this actually.

What Anakin turns into by the end of the prequel is sort of complex, there is no saving him, there is nothing to redeem. Of course Luke proves Obi-wan wrong about that, and is why the story as a whole 6 movies actually works, (although the 3 prequels should just be a single movie). Anyways, in this context, their fight makes more sense, but you have to understand that when they made this movie, they didn't have CG to make everyone look like Spider-man, so they went with a more traditional knights/samurais fighting to the death, it works and was a lesson for Luke at the time. That's Luke's father, Obi-wan wanted to make sure that Luke didn't join him, and having Vader kill Obi-wan, was a seal on that fate. It's actually fairly good writing, and I'm not even a Starwars fan.
 
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Rendering...

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
In fairness this was before Lucas knew what the hell he was doing with the franchise, and what kind of story he had on his hands. Star Wars was just some pulpy Flash Gordon space adventure. You can't anticipate the future context that's going to make your mentor's-last-stand scene look pathetically anticlimactic.

That said, it's a weak scene even without the context of the rest of the series. This can't be fixed without a comprehensive remake/rewrite, and it still feels too soon.

I should say, though: The episode 3 climax is just as much of a failure apart from its big budget and one short exchange at the end of the duel. It sacrifices a dramatic and deeply compelling conflict based on point of view and ideology, the total collapse of a powerful bond between two characters in their prime, for limp spectacle that totally discards the fundamentals of a satisfying scene. It's full of hackneyed lines, and most of the fight choreography and environmental acrobatics aren't even close to cool. A missed opportunity to put it mildly.
 
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Khanimus

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,120
Greater Vancouver
yuoke said:
Because they are choreographed, but so are the OT fights, and the ST fights. People use it to bash the prequels. The prequels have a lot wrong, but I think that is one thing that is focused too much on.
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Because the difference is the fights never accomplish anything. Fights in the prequels end arbitrarily, because the movie feels it's time to move on. Not because characters are worn out, or because characters are revealing aspects of themselves. Because it's just fucking kendo moves with no point or impact.
 

siddx

Banned
Dec 25, 2017
1,807
Yeah its fucking terrible and the lengths people go to defend it cracks me up. I think the last one I heard was that lightsabers are so powerful you cant actually do anything but the most simple movements. Fucking lol
 
sleepnaught

sleepnaught

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,538
Its bad, but come on. the movie is 40 years old. Besides, you're witnessing an elderly man and a robot duel. And, in case you didnt know, the old man was throwing the fight on purpose.
 
SmokingBun

SmokingBun

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,091
Honestly that fight is so embarrassing, should have gotten a Kurosawa style fight choreographer, ya know cuz it's two veteran Samurai
 
ClickyCal'

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,431
Khanimus said:
Because the difference is the fights never accomplish anything. Fights in the prequels end arbitrarily, because the movie feels it's time to move on. Not because characters are worn out, or because characters are revealing aspects of themselves. Because it's just fucking kendo moves with no point or impact.
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Not sure how that is true at all.
The phantom menace-fight ends after obiwan chops maul in half.

Count Dooku vs obiwan and anakin-Dooku's main goal wasn't to fight or kill them, he put the rock down and had to leave after fighting yoda.

Anakin kills dooku

Obiwan kills Greivous

Yoda falls down and by the time he could get back up, he would be surrounded by clones.

Obiwan all but kills anakin.
 
TickleMeElbow

TickleMeElbow

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,668
Yeah it's lame as fuck. There's no denying it.

I grew up watching martial arts/chambara/samurai films, so when I saw Star Wars for the first time I was extremely disappointed in the lightsaber battles.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

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Oct 28, 2017
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Earth, 21st Century
It's one of the weakest scenes of the OT in retrospect, and the one that aged the worst for sure. Especially when you consider the prequels... but even if you don't.
 
ClickyCal'

ClickyCal'

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Oct 25, 2017
59,431
Henrar said:
I hope you realize that original Star Wars was released in 1977 and technology was way, way more primitive than during filming AotC.
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I know, but it does still stand out as the only one that doesn't fit. Luke vs vader 1 does because that is the first time luke is ever using it, and vader toys with him. Luke vs Vader 2 is actually faster and matches up to being closer to a prequel speed fight, but not completely because luke is still not that experienced.
 
Axe

Axe

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Oct 27, 2017
2,741
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I always rationalised their fight as them testing each other rather than truly sparring. Vader was never going to let him leave, so Obi-Wan was simply buying time for the others.

Besides, Obi-Wan is old and well out-of-practice, and Vader is a cyborg who can barely control his limbs. It was never going to be the most graceful fight.
 
signal

signal

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Oct 28, 2017
40,170
I personally think most of the fight scenes in Star Wars films are terrible.

What is generally considered the best one? The Darth Maul fight?
 
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Rendering...

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Oct 30, 2017
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siddx said:
Yeah its fucking terrible and the lengths people go to defend it cracks me up. I think the last one I heard was that lightsabers are so powerful you cant actually do anything but the most simple movements. Fucking lol
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I do like the basic idea that wielding a lightsaber is like holding a weird gyroscope that's trying to tug itself all over the place, so it's necessary to use a two-handed grip.

The ship's sailed on that one, though. Everyone is way too used to seeing lightsabers flailed around like fencing foils.

Hellwarden said:
Dooku was some kind of freak, and we'll never know how he kept his force dick hard in old age.
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Same way Palps and Yoda summon the agility of a 22-year-old athlete on command. Force shenanigans.

rec0ded1 said:
2FQIs3L.gif
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Reviving the ancient Sith art of just ramming it in.
 
zoku88

zoku88

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Oct 27, 2017
1,025
I think they really just didn't figure out the best way to make lightsabers work until the sequel.
 
Iceternal

Iceternal

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Oct 28, 2017
1,496
yuoke said:
I know, but it does still stand out as the only one that doesn't fit. Luke vs vader 1 does because that is the first time luke is ever using it, and vader toys with him. Luke vs Vader 2 is actually faster and matches up to being closer to a prequel speed fight, but not completely because luke is still not that experienced.
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Interestingly they cut some of the fastest and fanciest parts of the fight. You can see some more in the behind the scenes videos.
 
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