Where did I say Israelis? Sorry I don't conflate the actions of a state with its entire populace. Is that what you're doing?
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House Dems will vote on a resolution in response to Ilhan Omar’s Israel comments
- Thread starter D.Dragoon
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Where did I say Israelis? Sorry I don't conflate the actions of a state with its entire populace. Is that what you're doing?
And she equated Omar's tweets to the 9/11 poster linking Omar to terrorism...
here again you are regarding the israeli state as though it represents all jewish people
this is not the case
If there was a revolutionary movement of Palestinians and Israelis organizing in solidarity to abolish the zionist state and establish a secular democracy with equal rights for all* , I have a hard time seeing how any progressive person could justify opposing it.
* I would also suggest the abolition of private property and wage labor...
It would make me feel better if people didn't want to abolish the Israeli state.
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This thread is trash I'm out, keep on keeping the anti-semitism of the left alive tho y'all.
I'll respond to this before dipping, cause this is an important distinction. I'm all for creating an actual representative democracy in Israel that doesn't impose apartheid on Palestine. That is VERY DIFFERENT from abolishing the Israeli state however.
Now I'm out.
Sure, the thread turned into trash because of who keeps trashing it.
We all know who that person is.
"I can't respond to any of the many valid points people are making so I'm running away and accusing everyone of hating Jews"
Love too rile people up with inflammatory statements and then leave the moment they're questioned
Good discourse thanks,,,
"Stop accusing us of abusing our power or we will use that power we totally don't have to remove you from Congress" is my favorite take in this entire debate.
I think he's trying to say that Israel can and should still exist if they stopped committing genocide, which is very true.
wow, criticizing a supporter of the israeli state?? pretty anti-semitic of you
The line taken by marrec is unfortunately very common. Several European states have adopted the standard that anti-zionism is antisemitism, and a hate crime.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...nism-is-a-form-of-anti-semitism-idUSKCN1QA1GL
Just bringing up the fact that the founding fathers were all slave owning shit heads is controversial enough
Has a problem with Rep Omar's phrasing 'appearing antisemitic', but uses an admittedly offensive analogy riddled with Jewish stereotypes...
The calls to end Israel are either disgusting or are using SEVERELY poor wording. It's too close to the language of extremists that want to remove jews from the region. If that's what you mean, then yeah, you're gross and anti-semitic. If you mean something along the lines of the Israel-Palestine region, as it exists today, would change into something where jews and arabs coexist as equals, use different language.
You're incorrectly conflating anti-Israel sentiment with anti-Jewish sentiment. Israel could be a majority Christian and most of the criticism would stand.
Shit has escalated quickly. We went from the discussion of being able to criticize Israel for its actions and not applying it directly to Jewish people who may not even support Israels actions, to now stating that they have no right to exist in the region. One person speculated that the only reason Israel shouldn't be wiped off the map is that it would be logistically difficult to achieve.
So what I am assuming is that Rep. Omar should also declare on twitter that Israel has no right to exist and that anyone who would condemn her statement has simply vowed allegiance to Israel over their own home country. Any controversy over this objectively true statement would be the result of the AIPAC/Pro Israel lobby. /s
So what I am assuming is that Rep. Omar should also declare on twitter that Israel has no right to exist and that anyone who would condemn her statement has simply vowed allegiance to Israel over their own home country. Any controversy over this objectively true statement would be the result of the AIPAC/Pro Israel lobby. /s
Hard to do when he's allowed to repeatedly spout his bullshit in these threads :/
And yet Israel is the only nation that gets calls for abolishment on this forum.
Yep. This all is making me increasingly angry and disappointed.
Who said Jews should be removed from the region? Quote them.
Dissolution of a state, it's sovereignty, and it's borders, is not the same as calling for the removal of Jews from the region.
fwiw, i don't think any state has a "right to exist" as a religious nationalist project, of any religion. And I doubt there are many examples of an officially religious state that isn't built on the oppression and hyper-exploitation of minority groups.
I've seen "abolish Saudi Arabia" and even "abolish America" (or something similar) posts on here numerous times. I don't agree with them, but no one's cherry picking Israel here.
it would be awkward if someone in this very thread called for the dissolution of the united states like. five minutes before you posted this
Maybe because it's a unique combination of ethnonationalistic apartheid through colonial means, which means that the end of the apartheid system fundamentally requires the abolition or severe reworking of the state as it is.
Just like the South African apartheid state was effectively abolished when apartheid ended, and a new state took its place.
I guess that depends if you identify as Israeli or not, people asking you about Israel if you're third generation American (for example) would be like asking a third generation ethnically Chinese person about the PRC. Most Chinese people I know can't read Mandarin, don't keep in touch with distant family, and have no real understanding or even interest in what's going on in China. Not only that, but they are not expected to defend the PRC, and are not looked at as people who have loyalties to the state.
Why would anyone possibly think that?
Maybe because they banned discussion of a bill that would define Israel as state for all its citizens (in the form of equal rights for Palestinian citizens of Israel)?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news...ne-israel-as-state-for-all-citizens-1.6145333
Cached version of the above article.
Or maybe because they passed a basic law that states that "Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people and they have an exclusive right to national self-determination in it"?
https://www.resetera.com/threads/bbc-jewish-nation-state-israel-approves-controversial-bill.56378/
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-middle-east-44881554
Or maybe it's the decades long campaign of genocide and ethnic cleansing of historical Palestine?
No, this is a very weak justification based on revisionist history. The chants were for freedom, ending apartheid, not abolishing South Africa.
Again people in this very thread are interlocking ethnicity and the nation when the criticism is only the policies of the country . No other country seems to get this coddling and egg shells from criticism of its policies
In fact I have to specifically use the word policies when in fact this should be a given because if I don't I'll be suspect and asked why did you not use that word to prove my criticism is not bigoted
In fact I have to specifically use the word policies when in fact this should be a given because if I don't I'll be suspect and asked why did you not use that word to prove my criticism is not bigoted
Kind of is by the nature of what is being called for.
Israel has a right to exist any calls for it to be abolished should be smacked down. Palestinian also deserves their own state and people need to fight for that in U.S or it wont happen.
In the case of this topic, any tone policing of Omar should be rightfully criticized. Stop giving bad faith assholes the time of day by allowing them to skew her original message.
She was clearly talking about her own loyalties and the pressure put on her to support Israel. How that somehow gets transformed into antisemitism is beyond me. She was speaking against this type of insanity.
It also should be pointed out that she is constantly accused of dual loyalties because she is a Muslim.
Like a lot of American Jews, I'm not even a little Israeli. There really shouldn't be this implication that, because I look Jewish, I must, or even probably, have a connection to Israel *shrugs*
a state that gave full rights to everyone under its control and granted reparations to those palestinians who had been wronged would be a fundamentally different state from israel as it is now constituted
literally no one is calling for jewish genocide, you're only casting your opponents in that light because zionism doesn't win arguments when it comes to reason and morality
People mostly only ask for Israel to give equal human rights to all the people under its control regardless of of their race or religion.
Or specially, stop being an apartheid state.
Now obviously, this is something Israel really doesn't want and it's also gonna be the end of zionism (at least as we know it) but you frame it like people are advocating the ethnic cleansing of Jewish people from Israel, which I'm pretty damn sure no one has ever done here (and had they done so, they would have been banned and rightfully so).
So why don't you try and argue with what people actually say instead of shadowboxing unnamed people?
Look at the history of Jewish people in the middle east and tell me everything will be fine for Jews without Israel.
It's not really a mystery, Israel and its supporters believe that BDS = antisemitism, they said so many many times, this is not something that they are trying to hide.
It's just that this position is so blatantly ridiculous that people try to muddy the water so they don't have to try and die on that stupid ass hill.
I dunno how the dude hasn't been perma'd yet. He's literally been on these antics since ResetERA started and he's still getting temps.
Mod post - stay on topic
jews would be fine in an israeli/palestinian state with strong legal and constitutional protections for all ethnicities and religions
this is like arguing that the native american genocide was acceptable because the pilgims were persecuted in england
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