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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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You'd be surprised, women find practical armours very attractive. So in that sense, Mitsurugi is even MORE of a fanservice design!
That being said, I was expecting even worse, lol.
The sad thing? That design for Sophitia is actually an improvement. This is what she used to look like.
Oh, I know. But I'm old enough to remember when she looked like this! (not perfect, no, but still leagues ahead of what we have now):
I mean that isn't that long ago, right? It's only been...18 years? That's not too long ago.
Hopefully we get a fairly robust character creator so we can play with movesets without being locked into designs we don't like. And we get awesome stuff like this.
Western adaptation of Tekken...
What in the... Butt cleavage? That's a first.
Oh, I know. But I'm old enough to remember when she looked like this! (not perfect, no, but still leagues ahead of what we have now):
The funny thing was that during a replay after victory, camera zoomed below as she kicked and you could see her pants!
I'm a sex-positive straight male. I appreciate women for their intellect, humour, hard work, ingenuity, creativity, personality, strength, courage and everything else they bring to the table. I also like seeing beautiful women, as is natural.
But I too hate sexualised female character designs. Sure, it's degrading, humiliating and damaging to women. That alone is reason enough to draw criticism. But I also find it insulting to me as a man. I feel like the creators are saying "Lol this caveman moron creep won't pay attention for more than five seconds if we don't throw some T&A in". It's enough to put me off a game. A classic example is Boyonetta. I hear amazing things about this game in terms of gameplay and quirky story... but the amount of ass-first, boob-centric shots of the main character put me off playing it.
I love video games; and I want it to be something I can enjoy with my wife and daughter (or at least have the same room) without it being creepy or weird. I'm still trying to work my way through this Brobdingnagian 130+ page thread, but thanks for raising this topic and sticking with it OP. Not all heroes wear capes.
But I too hate sexualised female character designs. Sure, it's degrading, humiliating and damaging to women. That alone is reason enough to draw criticism. But I also find it insulting to me as a man. I feel like the creators are saying "Lol this caveman moron creep won't pay attention for more than five seconds if we don't throw some T&A in". It's enough to put me off a game. A classic example is Boyonetta. I hear amazing things about this game in terms of gameplay and quirky story... but the amount of ass-first, boob-centric shots of the main character put me off playing it.
I love video games; and I want it to be something I can enjoy with my wife and daughter (or at least have the same room) without it being creepy or weird. I'm still trying to work my way through this Brobdingnagian 130+ page thread, but thanks for raising this topic and sticking with it OP. Not all heroes wear capes.
Yeah, it's weird that design from nearly two decades ago looks better than designs we have now. I know the games market is shrinking in Japan, but it's pretty clear pandering isn't helping marketability.
It's somewhat similar to what's happening frequently in modern anime compared to many of the more tasteful 90's designs.
That set of images of how her costume changed over time, gradually inflating her breasts and removing her armour, is interesting in terms of putting the modern depiction in perspective. The early iterations of Soul Edge/Calibur were the only ones I played until very recently, so I was surprised to see what had happened to their dress sense!Oh, I know. But I'm old enough to remember when she looked like this! (not perfect, no, but still leagues ahead of what we have now):
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So I thought I'd compare the whole "two girls one guy" JRPG fad over the years...
...points for consistency I guess?
...points for consistency I guess?
Mitsurugi is usually partially shirtless in Soul Cal, too. Sophie got less clothed than she was in earlier games as a younger version of herself and Mitsurgi got more clothed than his younger self. Weird for what looks like a reboot.
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Mitsurgi in other soul cals:
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It's a stupid fetishistic outfit for what's supposed to be an Athena-like warrior, and I'll hate it all I want, thanks.
Like the whole game is this, guys and girls alike. Maybe it's not for you.
Did you not see my earlier comments? The franchise wasn't always like that (Soul Blade wasn't, anyway), and Mitsurugi is in proper, non-fetishistic armour in that trailer.
Did you not see the picture from the Soul Blade game? This wasn't what the whole series was like at one point.
Maybe this thread isn't for you?
The whole thing is about listening to women, and you're actively dismissing one.
We're talking about a game nearly a generation ago at this point. One wonders how many fans of this series even played Soul Blade, much less think it had superior designs. I don't think much remains from that time that really resonates with anyone. If they want to put in alternate skins like that Sophie one I think that would be pretty neat, but basing everything on a game from 20 years ago seems like ignoring a lot of ground regardless of what your views are on the designs.
Alright, I'll apologize for the wording there. That *was* dismissive.
That said, I stick with my stance on the topic overall: that Sophie's skin from Soul Calibur 1 is a very solid, appealing design, and that this game is chuck FULL of skin like that, even from an early stage. I'm not sure Sophie here makes the list of top five offenders. At this point, it is what it is, and I think that's part of the appeal of the franchise.
For you, maybe. For me and others, it's why I dropped the franchise. I'd love to play a competent, polished, 3D melee weapons fighting game with cool-looking kick-ass ladies who aren't male-gazey fucktoys. That'd be cool but it doesn't exist. So in a way, you're right, this game isn't for me -- not anymore, anyway. Just like so many other franchises.
I used to play occasional fighting games.
Now I don't.
Guess what happened between those two circumstances?
Now I don't.
Guess what happened between those two circumstances?
All the fighting games changed the way they treated their female characters, added more that only existed as wank bait, etc. For an example, see that picture of Sophitia above, and the transition of Chun Li over the years.
Now there aren't any I can play.
I literally can't remember any fighting games that treated female characters as anything but wank bait. No joke. I'm getting up there, and I remember Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, and they felt even goofier and more stylized with the female proportions than Soul Calibur did.
Yes, Mortal Kombat started bad.
Soul Calibur was bad but I tolerated it at II. Then IV came out.
Street Fighter only HAD Chun Li, and she was fine, although the PLAYERS behaved badly about her. Then they introduced Cammy. So there wasn't a fighting game left I could play.
Plenty of fighting games decided to have "boobs physics" as technology advanced and sexualized their women characters as time passed. Just look at DoA, SC, SF, even virtual fighter.
I mean... they haven't really changed that much, you just probably became more self aware of these things over time.
Cammy got introduced in Super Turbo, which was in 1994, so are you saying you haven't played any SF games since Super Turbo?
You cannot
You cannot predate all of this. The characters in the photos I used range from 92-2005, so no that isn't possible.
That would be correct.
Cammy got introduced in Super Turbo, which was in 1994, so are you saying you haven't played any SF games since Super Turbo?
I looked at the first Virtua Fighter and said, call me in ten years when the technology catches up to your desire for 3d models. It eventually did, but I still didn't play Virtua Fighter because the series looked like crap.
I tried DoA but omg, that was awful. Not the gameplay, just the handling of all the women. Again, tolerated Soul Calibur briefly, but when they doubled down on the inflation of breasts idiocy, I noped out.
So, for more than 20 years, I've been excluded from the fighting games market. Despite occasional attempts to give them a shot again, I feel like they are pushing me away harder. I get my fighting fix from action RPGs and they have sufficient problems too.
I....what?
Look, this website has a minimum age limit.
Do you think it has some maximum age limit or sommat? You really confuse me.
Do you think it does? More socially conservative societies that viciously crack down on that sort of stuff still seem to have that problem.
Usually better than the rest, but they withewashed one of their female characters:
I think he's getting at the idea that there wasnt any fighting games before that time period and/or trying to say fighting games have always been like this. (tbh i'd have to look into obscure fighting games on consoles to hope for a chance to find one that didnt treat females like crap, or it plainly didnt have females to objectify in which case causes the issue of no female representation )
other than whitewashing a character and the silly secret outfit you may find in the unlockables (I dunno really because there's a lot of unlockables and I did not get everything) is the best of the bunch in 3D fighting games.
Quite good.
That game actually has more of a race problem than it does a sexism problem.
Matrimelee, Last Blade, Samurai Shodown.
Also I'm a little lost now on the current Tekken scene, but it always seemed to me they treated their women better than the competition. Leo is awesome for example.
You said you predate women being sexualized in fighting games, which I interpreted as you were playing fighting games when they weren't so sexualized (Not when you were born).
The problem with that statement is that... It's not true. Fighting Games as we know them have always had extremely sexualized women.
For example with Street Fighter, from reading the Capcom Design Works art book and the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary artbook, they attribute a lot of their influence from comic books (mostly Jim Lee) and Shonen manga, which tend who be reflected in the art for the games (Big Bodybuilder looking dudes and curvy women).
Now if you are saying it's getting more gratuitous, then for some games you may have an argument (though I would say SC6 looks to be about the level of SC2 instead of SC4).
There's a new B-roll that shows it.
https://twitter.com/Flying_Wonkey/status/939180595841712133
Also Sophitia model its clearly a touched up version of her SC 4 / 5, bust size included (it wasn't like that in 1)
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