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New Jersey becomes second state to ban cashless shops and restaurants
- Thread starter Slayven
- Start date
They should be making laws to stop predatory banks stopping poor people getting debit cards instead of this.
Like this is solving a problem caused by another problem rather than just fixing the underlying issue.
Like this is solving a problem caused by another problem rather than just fixing the underlying issue.
This is actually weirder in a way than "just get a credit card" because it demonstrates at least partial knowledge of how American credit works.
Do you know what a credit union says to a 19 year old African American mom of two kids who didn't finish high school and whose would be spouse is in jail or dead?
What do they say to her when she tells them she can't work for $8 an hour because she can't afford daycare?
Man, I'm not saying the NJ Trifecta Goverment is perfect, but man, is it good to have actual progress happening in the state.
... We need to keep this at all cost. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS GOOD. KEEP THIS AT ALL COSTS.
... We need to keep this at all cost. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS GOOD. KEEP THIS AT ALL COSTS.
Someone's going to have to convince me that this is actually a law meant to protect disadvantaged people stuck in the cash economy and not a law meant to protect major corporate interests that are directly competing with cashless start-up businesses. Because cash only poor people aren't buying flights at craft breweries or ten dollar sandwiches at a food truck, but those businesses DO eat into the profits of corporations with lobbying support.
Basically, a store must accept cash. It was possible, before this law passed, for a shop to accept only card or other digital forms of payment, which can be discriminatory (if you're poor, you may not have a cell phone, debit card, or credit card).
now i am just wondering why china of all places, can implement cash-less transaction and get the people to accept them much faster despite being 'poorer' and 'less technically inclined' (debatable). Seriously, cashless transaction (QR Code scan based) is actually the default and normal way of spending money in alot of china cities now while cash is actually the secondary backup. Obviously those less developed provinces and villages still uses cash but i'm just fascinated how china and other asian cities (like s.korea too....though japan still loves their coins) can push cashless much faster than the west.
In before anyone type 'China monitors those transactions!!!'.......yah probably but still. I mean seriously notes and coins are just so......'antique'........IMO.
In before anyone type 'China monitors those transactions!!!'.......yah probably but still. I mean seriously notes and coins are just so......'antique'........IMO.
Look obviously poor ass people aren't picking up tablets and wifi extenders by simply grabbing them at some weird unStore - but first :
1. We do not accept us currency or federal promisory notes is a thing our economy shouldn't be testing just on wealthy people for all sorts of dull federalism reasons.
2. Imagine you have red hair. Or size 9 feet. Something as arbitrary as that as it relates to your self worth or social mobility. Well now a growing series of stores won't let you shop there despite your good intentions and desire to be a good citizen. Weird, right?
3. Imagine that it's cheaper for these stores to do business this way and they're not legally prohibited from discriminating against you? Yikes!
4. OK now imagine that your red hair and diminutive feet mean banks and won't lend to you and the only credit you can get is at predatory rates enabled and encouraged by politicians elected by a minority in your state?
I don't think green promise notes are the future and I'll be glad when cash is an artifact of history -- but if they're going to enable this blunt and punitive class system then they need to first kill payday loan sharks and second make credit and fiscal systems far less destructive and frankly, less evil.
Some of this works in China because the government controls everything AND recognizes that the Hoi Polloi are its number one economic engine and they need fed.
This is good, but I want the law to go the opposite way; require every store to accept cashless/cardless payment systems. I just want to leave my wallet at home.
Yeah, it really feels like people applauding this are kind of missing the forest for the trees. It's basically an added burden on small businesses because there are a multitude of shitty systems in place that are completely out of their control. Oh, and it makes it harder to avoid taxes if they're operating cashless. The whole thing is weird.
I mentioned this in the Pennsylvania thread. The store in my building was robbed and they are cashless, but they didn't have a sign saying so. The thieves broke their glass door and stole ~$100 from a cash box used for tip change. If they'd had a sign saying they were cashless, they wouldn't have been targeted. Theft insurance didn't cover the broken door, more importantly, it didn't cover the lost business for the day of repairs or the lost wages and tips for the employees.
This whole thing feels like a band aid to avoid doing anything real to fix systemic issues.
This is possibly a weird take because cashless businesses require support from the massive, predatory credit card industry to work effectively.
It might just be a question of which end of the candle you choose to burn (so to speak)
That's good to hear...cash is legal tender, I was perplexed when I went to a food joint called Digg inn in NY and the cashier told me they don't take cash. I was like lolwut
For the most part that's a matter of selecting the right bank or credit union. Many people are fine with the waived fee solutions, usually either monthly direct deposits over a certain amount or carrying a minimum balance from month to month. That combined with the availability of major national bank chains leads them to see little reason to change, because despite their downsides they are still popular. But some banks and many credit unions don't charge fees for standard account usage, no waiving needed.
I'd say the bigger issue is the fact poor credit can result in someone being denied a bank account, and poor people are much more likely to have poor credit.
Keeping poor or homeless people out of your place of business, primarily.
Yeah, it's shitty
Hah, in Sweden we're going the exact opposite direction and basically everyone is on board with the cashless future.
Some older people are less comfortable with it, but we offer assistances for most of those people, and I can't imagine there are many who don't have a bank account and debit card, so the "banning of poor people" argument isn't a factor either.
Some older people are less comfortable with it, but we offer assistances for most of those people, and I can't imagine there are many who don't have a bank account and debit card, so the "banning of poor people" argument isn't a factor either.
Fair enough. I just kind of wonder how this became a big enough deal among the constituency in MA and NJ to drive this kind of law. It obviously makes sense from a legal perspective based on what cash is and represents and obviously from a federal government perspective, but do state governments really have the ability to regulate how federal currency is used or is this something that will eventually be mandated by the federal gov.? It's mostly that a large part of me thinks this law exists not because it helps people trapped in a cash economy, but that that is a beneficial side effect and I'm trying to figure out why else it exists.
As someone living in a country with cashless shops and who is fine with them, it seems this is what you should be focusing your ire on. You can't get a bank account if you're too poor? What the hell?
Baffling that this is even a necessity, but then again i'm from a country where owning a debit card is considered one of the most basic things in the world.
Fuck cash. Seriously. The sooner we're rid of it the better.
Fuck cash. Seriously. The sooner we're rid of it the better.
Presuming New Jersey goes in on UBI - Newark is entertaining this - wouldn't the adoption of cashless services and stores be easier to adopt?
The only way I see a cashless system working in a "caste-esque" system like America is if UBI was put on a card people had or something of the kind. Otherwise there's too many loopholes that particularly target the poor and minorities of society.
The only way I see a cashless system working in a "caste-esque" system like America is if UBI was put on a card people had or something of the kind. Otherwise there's too many loopholes that particularly target the poor and minorities of society.
God the more I learn about America the more it makes me want to weep. The whole American society is designed to fuck over everyone especially those who don't have much money. Yeah you abolished the British class system just to design a new one that fucks over everybody even harder except a select few.
We have free debit cards in the EU and until reading threads like this I always took most of the EU consumer stuff for granted
I'd much prefer the opposite, I very rarely take my wallet out with me, 99% of shops in the UK accept contactless payments, so I just use my Apple Watch to pay for stuff.
Cashless start up business have been around for over a decade and many of them exist in modern POS systems. They also can't exist without current payment processors.
People celebrating this is pretty weird to me, many stores in Australia are moving away from cash and it's pretty great. It's also very easy to get a debit card and put your cash on the card, and everyone has touch payment systems so shopping is ridiculously fast.
Kinda seems like the USA should solve whatever problems it has with debit/credit/digital payment methods and infrastructure rather than banning what is the inevitable and superior future.
Kinda seems like the USA should solve whatever problems it has with debit/credit/digital payment methods and infrastructure rather than banning what is the inevitable and superior future.
You can cut this off while you still try and fix the underlying problem.
It's just the usual weird shit that goes on in America that they think is normal and don't know any different.
Cashless is where society should be heading.
Why can't people have bank accounts? This is one of those rare moments when Brazil seems more civilized than the first world. Every bank must have a bank account "plan" that is free and offer a minimum of benefits (having a debit card, a minimum of withdrawals, Internet banking access, no minimum usage or minimum monthly deposits required). I believe you do need an address to open one up, but that would technically exclude only homeless people.
What's wrong with, y'know, having both card and cash options? It's weird to advocate for less choice. You should always have a bit of cash on you anyway, especially for shops that have a minimum card payment amount or privately owned shops that don't have card readers.
It's pretty fuckin' bad. To expand on that post you quoted about mandatory minimums, a great deal of banks now charge a "service fee" if you're under a threshold. This can include the fact that, for example, you can have less than $500 in the account and not even use it for that month.
America is a country where if you don't have money, you're something to be bulldozed. I will never understand what other countries look at us in envy over. Propaganda working its magic, perhaps?
Considering in the US they won't even provide basic GOVERNMENT ISSUED IDENTIFICATION hassle free and it's used as a way to disenfranchise minority or poor voting blocs, yeah... the poor are going to have barriers accessing debit and credit cards. US needs to fix a lot of things.
This is very common in NYC. There are a number of lunch joints around me that don't take cash, including Dig Inn but also Sweetgreen and I think Wisefish. Cash has material fraud risk in addition to employee loss concerns and it seriously slows down the lines, which can wrap around the block at lunchtime at these places.
I think the predatory thing is the price Sweetgreen charges for a salad, frankly.
Some banks require identification of sorts, which some may not have. We all have SS numbers, but perhaps someone doesn't have theirs memorized
Some banks have fees on fees on fees so it becomes a losing effort to keep money in there
Pre-paid debit cards are an option but come with the hassle of possibly never knowing how much you have or keeping them filled
People may not have easy access to a credit union or even know they exist
The thought of physical stores requiring digital wallets for transactions is pure class warfare bullshit.
Cash should always be accepted until something changes at the Federal level to address the issues.
Cash should always be accepted until something changes at the Federal level to address the issues.
Its not though becuase it's not banning cashless options. It's just requiring business to accept cash, of which they can always lift if the underlying problems get solved.