You can destroy armor for both genders, so that's not too big a deal.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
- Start date
- Status
You can destroy armor for both genders, so that's not too big a deal.
Yeah what I meant is that its stupid as shit IMO. It's especially annoying when you create a CaS and ends in your undies. It also makes the game more sexualized than SC2, even if it's in both sides.
When Street Fighter only had Chun Li for female characters, she wasn't sexualized, despite fighting in a skirt. The players did their best TO sexualize her, but it wasn't inherent in the camera or even her silly girly jumping up and down celebration move.
I predate the existence of all these characters, and have watched the evolution of the genre, if one can call it that. Since the adoption of extremely sexualized female characters, I have felt excluded from the genre because I object to that handling of women.
Is that clearer?
From what I remember of V (which ain't much I'm gonna tell you) you only get stripped to your undies when you make a custom character and get armor broken.
When it is a normal roster member, only some piece of armor get broken ( can't find a good picture).
I don't feel it make the game more sexualized, though it does make it more silly, which I feel is fine for the most part.
Kind of how you can dress Akuma in Boy Shorts and glistening skin, and it's not really erotic as much as it is absurd.
Yeah that's how it worked in V, they toned it down other than with CaS. I still hate it though :P just put a damn toggle, it looks so ridiculous.
Even if you discount Street Fighter II, in 1992 Fatal Fury 2 was released , and guess who made her first appearance there...
If you feel that it's gotten "worse" over the years, I'm not really gonna argue with you fam.
What I am saying is that there was no adoption, it's always been there.
So...sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Poppi gets another upgrade and I just saw it.
Now keep in mind that Poppi is portrayed as a child, and even though she has other forms, she usually stays in her youngest "child"-like form and has a childlike personality. And even though she gets an upgrade she still acts childish. This is her "true form"
Why yes game, I totally needed to see the child character grown up and sexualized as all get out. Clearly we need a child character to wear a leotard and panty combo that reveals so much skin and have an age up in body but not personality so we have a 5-year old in an adult body. By fucking god. Stop doing this game! I really want to like you but this bullshit keeps on happening!
And therefore, I don't play fighting games. Have never played Fatal Fury. Have never owned Mortal Kombat. Have given up other series, which inside themselves, got worse.
I think you haven't been understanding my points at all.
But you said you did play fighting games, but they got worse in your eyes?
I mean if you want suggestions, you can try Mortal Kombat X, which has pretty low key designs across the board, or Killer Instinct.
If you have a way to play PS2 games, Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution is great. It's one of my all-time favorite fighting games. Virtua Fighter has issues, like how they whitewashed Vanessa in VF5, but the series has never had the hypersexualization that other fighting games have. Gameplay is also really solid. It's a bummer that the series is pretty much dead.
I like Tekken 7 a lot, but it definitely sexualizes its female characters. It has over-the-top jiggle physics (for boobs and butts), objectifying camera angles, and some DoA-esque costume/accessory options, like the shower head that streams water over your character as they fight. The clothing customization options are not great either. I don't think anyone has a default costume as bad at Christie's this time around, but it can still be frustrating. I mostly stick to playing Lili in her player 2 costume.
I don't get why DoA is the only fighting game franchise that actually lets you toggle that stuff off.
The sad thing? That design for Sophitia is actually an improvement. This is what she used to look like.
I know its not practical but I love that design
It's not really true though. You could maybe argue that fighting games have always had sexualized designs (debatable), but even back then, in the early to mid-90's, the women weren't sexualized AS MUCH.
In the mid-90's I played a lot of Soul Blade on the PS1, and Night Warriors on the Sega Saturn, and the women were almost all sexualized to varying degrees. But, it wasn't as bad as it is today, so it didn't bother me too much. While there were things like cleavage or boob windows, it was mostly tasteful, there were no ridiculous jiggle physics, stupid "sexy" poses, etc.
The point weemadarthur is trying to make is that things only got worse and even more alienating, to the point where she can't stand that shit anymore. And I agree. The type of fighting games I used to enjoy don't just have one or two instances of fanservice anymore, it's almost every female character, it's exaggerated to absurd levels and constantly in your face, etc.
Last edited:
Even if you discount Street Fighter II, in 1992 Fatal Fury 2 was released , and guess who made her first appearance there...
If you feel that it's gotten "worse" over the years, I'm not really gonna argue with you fam.
What I am saying is that there was no adoption, it's always been there.
As an SNK fanboy I have to jump in on this. I mean I've said elsewhere in this thread that I hate Mai getting all the attention as a big favorite character when SNK actually has some great women in their games that don't get a lot of attention.
Like Morrigan said, in the 90s it wasn't too bad. Mai was actually much tamer back then both artwork and sprite wise (Sorry I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd post some examples). She actually wore something underneath her top to support her breasts and you can really see it in her Real Bout Fatal Fury sprites. But it was KOF 96 when they REALLY made her bouncy with her idle animation removing anything underneath her top. and soon her artwork upped the cleavage (the artwork posted above is her KOF 2000 artwork). And yeah, you got the rest of it.
...when did I say SNK had bad female characters? That was just to prove a larger point. Though Mau is the most Iconic FF/KOF women, you may not like that, but you ain't seeing Charlotte getting in crossovers or merchandise
You can say that it was tamer back then, in which case you'd be correct. However that is due to new games being in 3D and being able to accurately match the artwork of the characters.
Hell it dosent even have to be 3D, in can be really good 2D. For example the reason Chun is mostly shown with large thighs is because of her redesign in Third Strike
Now you can say you don't like the design, but to act like this was new would to be disingenuous.
Yeah, I was just thinking earlier about how so many of my favorite female fighting game character designs are in KOF games.
I wish designs like this were easier to find. I don't know why pants and decent breast support are so rare.
I would also agree that Mai was a lot tamer when she was introduced. Sex appeal has always been a part of her character, but they've been cranking things up every time they put out a new game.
This has been an issue with a lot of fighting games; characters that were already sexualized get skimpier costumes, larger breasts, more jiggle, more sexy poses, etc.
Apparently not, this is Vampire Saviour. :P Lilith and that stupid bee girl got added later.
You'll also note that I literally said, "and the women were almost all sexualized to varying degrees. But, it wasn't as bad as it is today".
Try reading better next time. And I already told you repeatedly to use quotes if you were gonna spam large images.
You'll also note that I literally said, "and the women were almost all sexualized to varying degrees. But, it wasn't as bad as it is today".
Try reading better next time. And I already told you repeatedly to use quotes if you were gonna spam large images.
Last edited:
Whether your talking about Vampire Savior or DS3, Felica and Morrigan were the only female characters initially (Helen No and Donovan were added in DS2) and they are both heavily sexualized, so you are splitting hairs. If those characters were to be released today they would be criticized heavily.
Also
Whatever bruh
I'm splitting hair? I listed Soul Edge and Night Warriors (that's DS2, which has Hsien-Ko, Felicia and Morrigan) and I said almost all of the women are sexualized to varying degrees, which is correct. Hsien-Ko has a silly boob window, but she's not as sexualized as Felicia. Taki in Soul Edge was sexy, but wasn't the balloon tit ninja she turned into later. Etc.
I explicitly acknowledged that the women were indeed sexualized, while explaining the difference with what we got later.
I don't know how I can possibly make this clearer, but your gotcha attempts are rather tiresome.
I explicitly acknowledged that the women were indeed sexualized, while explaining the difference with what we got later.
I don't know how I can possibly make this clearer, but your gotcha attempts are rather tiresome.
It has:
I like her design, but i wonder if this are the best clothes for a fight.
Gotcha? The fuck are you talking about. The vast majority of fighting games have about a few conservative female characters and the rest tend to be pretty sexy.
When you brought up Night Warriors, which is the first Darkstalkers game, I wondered why you thought that was fine, despite the fact that the only two female characters were heavily sexualized.
I want you to keep your logic sound, cause it really feels like you let nostalgia determine what you will give a pass to. And if you are okay with it because you grew up with it, that's fine, but like I said you are splitting hairs.
Also How is that I No any worse than this one.
So we played the same Night Warrior right?
It is kinda weird, but since the camera didn't had any creepy zooms, lots of the designs became much more acceptable when the animations didn't focused to the fact that felicia was basically naked, for example
Yeah, I agree. That still dosent change the fact that the designs are hyper sexualized, which is what the conversation is about.
Where did I say that was "fine" or that I was "okay" with it? You know, when I criticized your reading comprehension, I really meant what I said, because, again:
- It did bother me, but not as much as now, because:
- there was sexualization, but it's worse today, because:
- nowadays it's more than just cleavage or boob window, because they do things like boob jiggle, exaggerated poses, exaggerate breast size, even more exposed skin or skintight outfits, etc.
By the way, your tone is also increasingly hostile. I suggest you chill.
I can't possibly make this clearer, but I guess I'll try again:
- It did bother me, but not as much as now, because:
- there was sexualization, but it's worse today, because:
- nowadays it's more than just cleavage or boob window, because they do things like boob jiggle, exaggerated poses, exaggerate breast size, even more exposed skin or skintight outfits, etc.
By the way, your tone is also increasingly hostile. I suggest you chill.
Not so much .... she had really weird proportions,and I mean shoulders too big for a "sexy woman" for example, not just her ridiculously large hands, for example and that design does not translate for how it is applied. Her poses are not classic sexy poses and you can see that they were made thinking more about how the character would act instead of what would be the sexiest way to do it.
Compare this to her Marvel vs Capcom 3 boobs and but pose and you see a HUGE difference
Fine whatever, I don't wanna beat a dead horse forever but...
Naw man, you can't be coming at me all smugly and shit and then expect me not to respond a lil harsh.
Now I know that's how you usually post (you posted that way on GAF), but when you insult my reading comprehension as if I'm fucking retarded and don't know what you mean, that tilts me a little bit, I really don't like that.
Anyway you explained yourself so I ain't gonna badger you anymore.
Sure, however one thing to note is that this is Bengus art, and Bengus dosent do much sexy art, he is all about strange and chunky proportions, at least for his early stuff.Not so much .... she had really weird proportions,and I mean shoulders too big for a "sexy woman" for example, not just her ridiculously large hands, for example and that design does not translate for how it is applied. Her poses are not classic sexy poses and you can see that they were made thinking more about how the character would act instead of what would be the sexiest way to do it.
Compare this to her Marvel vs Capcom 3 boobs and but pose and you see a HUGE difference
When Bengus drew her for MvC2, she is a bit less gangly in proportion because his style changed
So, my last post was sufficiently clear that it led you to randomly start attacking someone else?
Glad we could have this conversation.
Fighting games started less bad than now. They got worse. They are very bad on the subject.
Thanks for the VF4 recs, if I end up in the market for fighting games I'll look into it, my PS2 backlog isn't big enough.
Glad we could have this conversation.
Fighting games started less bad than now. They got worse. They are very bad on the subject.
Thanks for the VF4 recs, if I end up in the market for fighting games I'll look into it, my PS2 backlog isn't big enough.
Virtua Fighter is considered to be the most balanced fighting game of them all, and for the most part, that's true. It's also very, very technical which kind of contributes to it not selling well. It has a ceiling and floor higher than most fighting games already. But I personally find it to be great fun.
Usually better than the rest, but they withewashed one of their female characters:
I get so depressed every time I see this image...
It's so dissapointed not only because she is white washed (probably worse than the other thing I'm going to mention), but also that she loses her muscle definition in an attempt to "pretty her up". Like, we have an extremely toned woman here and next game she just has to turn into a more generic pretty woman. It's just annoying.
Same, they turned my favorite black woman in fighting games into a woman that, well,.....doesn't really look black to be honest. Like, at all. If someone told me that "Vanessa" in VF 5 was just a new tan white girl who studied under the real Vanessa and uses her fighting style in VF5, I'd believe you.
I'll always love fighting games, I just can't help it, but I do absolutely despise the gross over sexualizing of the female characters. I know there have always been sexy females in fighting games, but the jiggling shit, as well as the fact that every female in fighting games have all simultaneously lost their taste for bras, makes me literally ashamed to play most fighting games in front of my wife, and that's just kind of a shame. The only fighting games I've succeeded in getting my wife to enjoy are Injustice 2, Marvel Infinite, and Tekken 7. To be clear, Tekken 7 definitely went overboard with the jiggle shit and the sexualization, but it's got Akuma, Geese, Heihachi, and adorable giant bears as characters so my wife still manages to enjoy it.
You mean Sophitia's design? Because her Soul Calibur 6 design is basically a mix of her Soul Calibur 1 and 2 design (more heavy on the Soul Calibur 1 side).
Unless you thought they meant soul blade? In which case, i'm glad they aren't going back to that design b/c despite it being less revealing, its also a super boring design. I'm not really sure what you mean by "the costumes not reflecting [taking place in the time of the first game] truly"...
I think a mix of the Soul Blade and Soul Calibur designs would have been best though.
Please don't use the term retarded when you mean stupid. I've got a mental disability and I don't like the implication of it.
if you have a 360 or PS3 get Virtua Fighter 5 FS. It's the better game IMO
1) Don't use that word. It's incredibly insensitive.
2) I been watching this whole conversation. Morrigan explained herself VERY clearly. You misunderstood. That's fine; people make mistakes. Get the fuck over it and act like a reasonable member of society.
Regarding fighting games, they have taken a turn for the worse; where there was objectification before in the '90s has been dialled up several notches for the same characters. Mai and Chun-Li weren't that bad back in the day and I am not that bothered by Cammy turning to show her butt in one of her win poses in SSF2 but the sheer amount of cheesecake fighting game developers are serving up these days is just adolescent and awkward. It's a lot more in your face these days and to state that it was always this bad by posting some old art and Elena's lose screen is disingenuous as hell.
There's nowhere near as much single player content as 4 though, and then there's the white washing of Vanessa. If one can get a hold of VF4, I'd recommend it over 5, even 5FS is more balanced; 4 just had tons of content and it never felt boring to play. In my mind, it's the Virtua Fighter's Soul Calibur 2. I do love 5FS though, I just wish they'd rerelease 4 on the ps2 classics on PS4 so we could have both.
Yup, as I stated earlier, I'm embarrassed to play the games around my wife. Interestingly enough, and I have no idea how to feel about this, my 6 year old daughter's favorite character on SFV is R.Mika, and when I ask her why she laughs and says, "because she doesn't wear any clothes Daddy!!" and then proceeds to giggle as I tell her that clothes are a good thing though....she's a funny kid lol, but as I said, I have no idea how I should feel about that.
The original costume isn't really much better in terms of breast support, but it didn't have the side-boob issues at least.
Hopefully she'll at least get her alt costume with the cape.
I have my issues with Tekken 7, but it makes me so happy that Panda is a part of the roster and not a palette swap. I prefer faster characters now, but I would have been all about Panda and her P2 costume when I was a kid.
It's kind of interesting that certain fighting game series began with moderate or average amounts of sexualization and after a certain point just went into overdrive. The difference in Chun-Li's presentation from SF4 to SFV is staggering - the male gaze camera, the deluge of skimpy costumes, and the increase to her bust size all kind of came out of nowhere. The rest of the female characters got hit bad too - in previous games they'd usually only have 1 or 2 "sexy" characters, like Cammy showing her butt off in 2 or Elena in 3, while Chun-Li would be the "classy" character and others might be the cute one, the funny one, etc., but now if they're not half naked by default then they'll definitely have some kind of skimpy alt-costume or three.
Soul Calibur wasn't that bad before 4. We've all see the sad evolution of Sophitia, but even Taki used to be reasonable before her breasts ballooned in 2.
Back in the day it felt like DOA was like the containment game for hyper-sexualaized female characters, but now that design philosophy is so widespread that DOA doesn't even stand out any
Soul Calibur wasn't that bad before 4. We've all see the sad evolution of Sophitia, but even Taki used to be reasonable before her breasts ballooned in 2.
Back in the day it felt like DOA was like the containment game for hyper-sexualaized female characters, but now that design philosophy is so widespread that DOA doesn't even stand out any
Aw dude, I don't envy you. It doesn't help that TVs are way bigger these days which with the increased visual fidelity and "sexy" camera angles, the objectification is really in your face now. Not the same as bitd when we were playing on 20" CRTs with tiny sprites or blocky polygons!
Yeah those are fair points. Overall I like FS the most but it's right 4 has more content, and the whitewashing stuff that I already mentioned it sucked :(
That set of images of how her costume changed over time, gradually inflating her breasts and removing her armour, is interesting in terms of putting the modern depiction in perspective. The early iterations of Soul Edge/Calibur were the only ones I played until very recently, so I was surprised to see what had happened to their dress sense!
Yeah, I gave up early on SC and it was mostly because of that. Ivy, for example, was always a character that had sexiness / slightly fetishistic costume as part of her design, but as time went on it went into absolutely batshit insane territory. I don't know if there's a similar image to the above for Ivy but here are her designs from I and V; I'm spoiler tagging them because her design for V is straight up NSFW:
It's a bullshit take too. He did nothing whatsoever to remove any of the sexualization from the fighting games once X existed. He just likes to complain about what Team Ninja does ever since he left the studio. I mean, let's not forget the character he would go on to create after leaving TN, Ludimilla from Devil's Third. A characters whose clothing makes Quiet's look modest.
Yeah, I gave up early on SC and it was mostly because of that. Ivy, for example, was always a character that had sexiness / slightly fetishistic costume as part of her design, but as time went on it went into absolutely batshit insane territory. I don't know if there's a similar image to the above for Ivy but here are her designs from I and V; I'm spoiler tagging them because her design for V is straight up NSFW:
I'm sorry but I can't take any game featuring the second design seriously. And we haven't seen her SCVI design yet; be very afraid...
That second one's actually her SCIV design. Ivy's SCV design is only slightly less worse:
Yeah, I gave up early on SC and it was mostly because of that. Ivy, for example, was always a character that had sexiness / slightly fetishistic costume as part of her design, but as time went on it went into absolutely batshit insane territory. I don't know if there's a similar image to the above for Ivy but here are her designs from I and V; I'm spoiler tagging them because her design for V is straight up NSFW:
I'm sorry but I can't take any game featuring the second design seriously. And we haven't seen her SCVI design yet; be very afraid...
But you posted her IV design. This is V
- Status