You can destroy armor for both genders, so that's not too big a deal.
You can destroy armor for both genders, so that's not too big a deal.
You can destroy armor for both genders, so that's not too big a deal.
You said you predate women being sexualized in fighting games, which I interpreted as you were playing fighting games when they weren't so sexualized (Not when you were born).
The problem with that statement is that... It's not true. Fighting Games as we know them have always had extremely sexualized women.
For example with Street Fighter, from reading the Capcom Design Works art book and the Street Fighter 30th Anniversary artbook, they attribute a lot of their influence from comic books (mostly Jim Lee) and Shonen manga, which tend who be reflected in the art for the games (Big Bodybuilder looking dudes and curvy women).
Now if you are saying it's getting more gratuitous, then for some games you may have an argument (though I would say SC6 looks to be about the level of SC2 instead of SC4).
From what I remember of V (which ain't much I'm gonna tell you) you only get stripped to your undies when you make a custom character and get armor broken.Yeah what I meant is that its stupid as shit IMO. It's especially annoying when you create a CaS and ends in your undies. It also makes the game more sexualized than SC2, even if it's in both sides.
From what I remember of V (which ain't much I'm gonna tell you) you only get stripped to your undies when you make a custom character and get armor broken.
When it is a normal roster member, only some piece of armor get broken ( can't find a good picture).
I don't feel it make the game more sexualized, though it does make it more silly, which I feel is fine for the most part.
Kind of how you can dress Akuma in Boy Shorts and glistening skin, and it's not really erotic as much as it is absurd.
Even if you discount Street Fighter II, in 1992 Fatal Fury 2 was released , and guess who made her first appearance there...When Street Fighter only had Chun Li for female characters, she wasn't sexualized, despite fighting in a skirt. The players did their best TO sexualize her, but it wasn't inherent in the camera or even her silly girly jumping up and down celebration move.
I predate the existence of all these characters, and have watched the evolution of the genre, if one can call it that. Since the adoption of extremely sexualized female characters, I have felt excluded from the genre because I object to that handling of women.
Is that clearer?
So... Weird question. I watched DF's video on XB2 and noticed they had Pyra wearing some robes in parts of the footage. Can you have her wear those all the time and are they missable?
SIGH. Poppi is like the one female design I like because she looks adorable and didn't have a single sexual element.
Even if you discount Street Fighter II, in 1992 Fatal Fury 2 was released , and guess who made her first appearance there...
If you feel that it's gotten "worse" over the years, I'm not really gonna argue with you fam.
What I am saying is that there was no adoption, it's always been there.
But you said you did play fighting games, but they got worse in your eyes?And therefore, I don't play fighting games. Have never played Fatal Fury. Have never owned Mortal Kombat. Have given up other series, which inside themselves, got worse.
I think you haven't been understanding my points at all.
That would be correct.
I looked at the first Virtua Fighter and said, call me in ten years when the technology catches up to your desire for 3d models. It eventually did, but I still didn't play Virtua Fighter because the series looked like crap
Also I'm a little lost now on the current Tekken scene, but it always seemed to me they treated their women better than the competition. Leo is awesome for example.
Yeah that's how it worked in V, they toned it down other than with CaS. I still hate it though :P just put a damn toggle, it looks so ridiculous.
The sad thing? That design for Sophitia is actually an improvement. This is what she used to look like.
It's not really true though. You could maybe argue that fighting games have always had sexualized designs (debatable), but even back then, in the early to mid-90's, the women weren't sexualized AS MUCH.I think he's getting at the idea that there wasnt any fighting games before that time period and/or trying to say fighting games have always been like this.
Even if you discount Street Fighter II, in 1992 Fatal Fury 2 was released , and guess who made her first appearance there...
If you feel that it's gotten "worse" over the years, I'm not really gonna argue with you fam.
What I am saying is that there was no adoption, it's always been there.
...when did I say SNK had bad female characters? That was just to prove a larger point. Though Mau is the most Iconic FF/KOF women, you may not like that, but you ain't seeing Charlotte getting in crossovers or merchandiseAs an SNK fanboy I have to jump in on this. I mean I've said elsewhere in this thread that I hate Mai getting all the attention as a big favorite character when SNK actually has some great women in their games that don't get a lot of attention.
Like Morrigan said, in the 90s it wasn't too bad. Mai was actually much tamer back then both artwork and sprite wise (Sorry I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd post some examples). She actually wore something underneath her top to support her breasts and you can really see it in her Real Bout Fatal Fury sprites. But it was KOF 96 when they REALLY made her bouncy with her idle animation removing anything underneath her top. and soon her artwork upped the cleavage (the artwork posted above is her KOF 2000 artwork). And yeah, you got the rest of it.
As an SNK fanboy I have to jump in on this. I mean I've said elsewhere in this thread that I hate Mai getting all the attention as a big favorite character when SNK actually has some great women in their games that don't get a lot of attention.
Like Morrigan said, in the 90s it wasn't too bad. Mai was actually much tamer back then both artwork and sprite wise (Sorry I'm on my phone, otherwise I'd post some examples). She actually wore something underneath her top to support her breasts and you can really see it in her Real Bout Fatal Fury sprites. But it was KOF 96 when they REALLY made her bouncy with her idle animation removing anything underneath her top. and soon her artwork upped the cleavage (the artwork posted above is her KOF 2000 artwork). And yeah, you got the rest of it.
So we played the same Night Warrior right?
Apparently not, this is Vampire Saviour. :P Lilith and that stupid bee girl got added later.
You'll also note that I literally said, "and the women were almost all sexualized to varying degrees. But, it wasn't as bad as it was today".
Gotcha? The fuck are you talking about. The vast majority of fighting games have about a few conservative female characters and the rest tend to be pretty sexy.I'm splitting hair? I listed Soul Edge and Night Warriors (that's DS2, which has Hsien-Ko, Felicia and Morrigan) and I said almost all of the women are sexualized to varying degrees, which is correct. Hsien-Ko has a silly boob window, but she's not as sexualized as Felicia. Taki in Soul Edge was sexy, but wasn't the balloon tit ninja she turned into later. Etc.
I explicitly acknowledged that the women were indeed sexualized, while explaining the difference with what we got later.
I don't know how I can possibly make this clearer, but your gotcha attempts are rather tiresome.
Yeah, I agree. That still dosent change the fact that the designs are hyper sexualized, which is what the conversation is about.It is kinda weird, but since the camera didn't had any creepy zooms, lots of the designs became much more acceptable when the animations didn't focused to the fact that felicia was basically naked, for example
I can't possibly make this clearer, but I guess I'll try again:But, it wasn't as bad as it is today, so it didn't bother me too much. While there were things like cleavage or boob windows, it was mostly tasteful, there were no ridiculous jiggle physics, stupid "sexy" poses, etc.
Yeah, I agree. That still dosent change the fact that the designs are hyper sexualized, which is what the conversation is about.
Fine whatever, I don't wanna beat a dead horse forever but...Where did I say that was "fine" or that I was "okay" with it? You know, when I criticized your reading comprehension, I really meant what I said, because, again:
I can't possibly make this clearer, but I guess I'll try again:
- It did bother me, but not as much as now, because:
- there was sexualization, but it's worse today, because:
- nowadays it's more than just cleavage or boob window, because they do things like boob jiggle, exaggerated poses, exaggerate breast size, even more exposed skin or skintight outfits, etc.
Naw man, you can't be coming at me all smugly and shit and then expect me not to respond a lil harsh.By the way, your tone is also increasingly hostile. I suggest you chill.
Sure, however one thing to note is that this is Bengus art, and Bengus dosent do much sexy art, he is all about strange and chunky proportions, at least for his early stuff.Not so much .... she had really weird proportions,and I mean shoulders too big for a "sexy woman" for example, not just her ridiculously large hands, for example and that design does not translate for how it is applied. Her poses are not classic sexy poses and you can see that they were made thinking more about how the character would act instead of what would be the sexiest way to do it.
Compare this to her Marvel vs Capcom 3 boobs and but pose and you see a HUGE difference
So, my last post was sufficiently clear that it led you to randomly start attacking someone else?
Glad we could have this conversation.
Fighting games started less bad than now. They got worse. They are very bad on the subject.
Thanks for the VF4 recs, if I end up in the market for fighting games I'll look into it, my PS2 backlog isn't big enough.
Usually better than the rest, but they withewashed one of their female characters:
Same, they turned my favorite black woman in fighting games into a woman that, well,.....doesn't really look black to be honest. Like, at all. If someone told me that "Vanessa" in VF 5 was just a new tan white girl who studied under the real Vanessa and uses her fighting style in VF5, I'd believe you.
You mean Sophitia's design? Because her Soul Calibur 6 design is basically a mix of her Soul Calibur 1 and 2 design (more heavy on the Soul Calibur 1 side).So, apparently, the Soul Caliber VI will take place in the time of the first game. Shame about..you know, the costumes not reflecting that truly.
That's kinda the whole struggle lol
Please don't use the term retarded when you mean stupid. I've got a mental disability and I don't like the implication of it.Now I know that's how you usually post (you posted that way on GAF), but when you insult my reading comprehension as if I'm fucking retarded and don't know what you mean, that tilts me a little bit, I really don't like that.
So, my last post was sufficiently clear that it led you to randomly start attacking someone else?
Glad we could have this conversation.
Fighting games started less bad than now. They got worse. They are very bad on the subject.
Thanks for the VF4 recs, if I end up in the market for fighting games I'll look into it, my PS2 backlog isn't big enough.
1) Don't use that word. It's incredibly insensitive.
There's nowhere near as much single player content as 4 though, and then there's the white washing of Vanessa. If one can get a hold of VF4, I'd recommend it over 5, even 5FS is more balanced; 4 just had tons of content and it never felt boring to play. In my mind, it's the Virtua Fighter's Soul Calibur 2. I do love 5FS though, I just wish they'd rerelease 4 on the ps2 classics on PS4 so we could have both.if you have a 360 or PS3 get Virtua Fighter 5 FS. It's the better game IMO
Yup, as I stated earlier, I'm embarrassed to play the games around my wife. Interestingly enough, and I have no idea how to feel about this, my 6 year old daughter's favorite character on SFV is R.Mika, and when I ask her why she laughs and says, "because she doesn't wear any clothes Daddy!!" and then proceeds to giggle as I tell her that clothes are a good thing though....she's a funny kid lol, but as I said, I have no idea how I should feel about that.Regarding fighting games, they have taken a turn for the worse; where there was objectification before in the '90s has been dialled up several notches for the same characters. Mai and Chun-Li weren't that bad back in the day and I am not that bothered by Cammy turning to show her butt in one of her win poses in SSF2 but the sheer amount of cheesecake fighting game developers are serving up these days is just adolescent and awkward. It's a lot more in your face these days and to state that it was always this bad by posting some old art and Elena's lose screen is disingenuous as hell.
I like her design, but i wonder if this are the best clothes for a fight.
To be clear, Tekken 7 definitely went overboard with the jiggle shit and the sexualization, but it's got Akuma, Geese, Heihachi, and adorable giant bears as characters so my wife still manages to enjoy it.
Yup, as I stated earlier, I'm embarrassed to play the games around my wife. Interestingly enough, and I have no idea how to feel about this, my 6 year old daughter's favorite character on SFV is R.Mika, and when I ask her why she laughs and says, "because she doesn't wear any clothes Daddy!!" and then proceeds to giggle as I tell her that clothes are a good thing though....she's a funny kid lol, but as I said, I have no idea how I should feel about that.
There's nowhere near as much single player content as 4 though, and then there's the white washing of Vanessa. If one can get a hold of VF4, I'd recommend it over 5, even 5FS is more balanced; 4 just had tons of content and it never felt boring to play. In my mind, it's the Virtua Fighter's Soul Calibur 2. I do love 5FS though, I just wish they'd rerelease 4 on the ps2 classics on PS4 so we could have both.
That set of images of how her costume changed over time, gradually inflating her breasts and removing her armour, is interesting in terms of putting the modern depiction in perspective. The early iterations of Soul Edge/Calibur were the only ones I played until very recently, so I was surprised to see what had happened to their dress sense!
Everybody is a little perverted; even I'm a little perverted. But, it was for that very reason I created DOAX [Dead or Alive Xtreme]; in order to target the people who wanted something a little bit more casual and sexy but at the same time keeping that tone separate from the 'fighting game' that is DOA. DOA is now a total mess.
Yeah, I gave up early on SC and it was mostly because of that. Ivy, for example, was always a character that had sexiness / slightly fetishistic costume as part of her design, but as time went on it went into absolutely batshit insane territory. I don't know if there's a similar image to the above for Ivy but here are her designs from I and V; I'm spoiler tagging them because her design for V is straight up NSFW:
I'm sorry but I can't take any game featuring the second design seriously. And we haven't seen her SCVI design yet; be very afraid...
Yeah, I gave up early on SC and it was mostly because of that. Ivy, for example, was always a character that had sexiness / slightly fetishistic costume as part of her design, but as time went on it went into absolutely batshit insane territory. I don't know if there's a similar image to the above for Ivy but here are her designs from I and V; I'm spoiler tagging them because her design for V is straight up NSFW:
I'm sorry but I can't take any game featuring the second design seriously. And we haven't seen her SCVI design yet; be very afraid...