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ebi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
326
I think the most obvious answer is that Viera were the more demanded race but because other groups were complaining about there not being enough beastial options they added Hrothgar and resources made it so that they couldn't afford to do both genders. The decision to make the two genderlocked races stereotypes of their respective gender is still intentional and I think it's purely because of female viera.
I think they genuinely wanted to implement a more beastlike race, Yoshida has been saying this for years in interviews (IIRC he was talking about it even before the Au Ra were introduced). But you're right about Viera being very requested so at some point they had to find a feasible middle ground between what they wanted to do and pleasing the fans and this unfortunate result happened because of it.
 

Lauren

Member
Feb 16, 2018
83
Cardiff
Viera Drama
giphy.gif


Honestly, I'm pretty upset with how full tantrum a lot of people have gone with this whole race nonsense. It takes away from valid criticisms when people are screaming WAH I WANTED TO BE BUNNY BOI!

I think announcing a race with only 1 gender and not going further from there, plus the fact that male Viera are so rare that other games with Viera in haven't really shown them, is a legit reason to have only one gender. I don't personally think it's sexist (Male Miqo'te are often sexualised and it's well-known females play them with sexiness in mind, so let's tread carefully on screaming sexism) but if people feel it is then make your points known. Just don't shout down those who don't agree with you.

It's obvious that Roth has to be single gender to counter balance the Viera out (we've already seen how upset people get about Mogstation items being mainly for female characters).

A lot of the arguments are that Viera are a "sexy" race but forget that Miqo'te are also the "sexy" race and the males are included in that "sexy" design. There are plenty of topless male miqo'te running around amongst the bikini girls and that a lot of MEN play female miqo'te and sex them up outfit wise as well. Au'Ra males can be considered sexy depending on your preference, same with Roes and Elezean. Elezean men are sexualised quite often on JP twitter.

I think female only viera fits lore wise and maybe it wasn't just Yoshi's decision about that lore. Maybe there are specific rules about lore and final fantasy that people have to adhere too and FF12/Tactics/Ivalice lore was specific about there not being a male viera in the works?

Is there something inherently "sexist" about female version design? Sure. It's Japan - let's not forget. Look at anime, manga and tell me about the diversity of body design there. But we must also accept that the majority of POPULAR avatars in FFXIV are the sexy female characters? How often do you see white, large breasted and skimpy outfitted female miqo'te compared to.. literally any other race? White skimpy female au'ra? The playerbase is pretty set on a certain "type" and the bunny girls adhere to what is popular.

Plus look at how small amount of "female" avatars in categories such as Elezean, Roe and Highlanders? You don't see them as much compared to the cute/sexy versions.




In terms of the whole healer / dancer debate. I'm not disappointed in the slightest that DNC is a ranged DPS. It wasn't a healer in FFXI and has historically been a class that focuses on buffs and debuffs (IV After Years used white magic I think?). I am gutted no new healer as there was a new tank but it makes sense with what they want to do with tanks (2 MT and 2 OT). They wish to make that split more ... distinctive?

As a side note: Dates for referance
06nldq116zn21.jpg
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,852
You clearly don't know what sexualized designs are if you think a kilt and battle armor is sexualized.

He clearly just doesn't get it.

Beasts, with actual lion heads and fur, in kilts is not sexualised imagery. By this logic Donald Duck is also sexualised because he doesn't wear pants. But he isn't, because he is a bloody duck! The vast majority of people aren't attracted to animals.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
I really don't buy the excuse that they were deciding between female Viera or female Horthgar especially since Hrothgar just finished before the fanfest while Viera were done by Paris.

I think the most obvious answer is that Viera were the more demanded race but because other groups were complaining about there not being enough beastial options they added Hrothgar and resources made it so that they couldn't afford to do both genders. The decision to make the two genderlocked races stereotypes of their respective gender is still intentional and I think it's purely because of female viera.

I also think comparing Viera to FemRoe makes little sense and that a more apt comparison would me Mi'qote which ACTUALLY had a similar genderlock issue both in lore and game but backlash made them add male as playable. Male Mi'qote is very popular.

Viera would be faster to develop seeing as Fran had to be ready for the game and they have a more human appearance to work with. Gotta be harder figuring out how to make animal heads work.

And this is the translation I was talking about ..
"Just a note, that translation is not quite correct. What Yoshida said was that about 3 months after 4.0, they decided to implement Hrothgar. But they also wanted to make Viera. So the choice was between making female Hrothgar, or making female Viera. Meaning if they hadn't decided to make the female Viera, all we would have gotten would have been male and female Hrothgar. "

It's believable to me, they did it to us once before already. When Viera was the most wanted new race what did we get? We got their attempt at a NEW FF race that's more beastly and deamonic. Also lines up with him not caring for the idea of Male Viera.

And I wasn't comparing Viera to Femroe, I was comparing female Hrothgar to Femroe.
Lets be real ... look at the dozens of players who play Femroe (There are DOZENS of us!). They would have to basically make the Females look like the cat girls we already have to make sure they aren't in the gutter playrate wise with us Femroes ... and at that point why bother? If this IS their final race I'm sure they would prefer to give us something many people want that wont beat Femroes to the bottom of the play list because they're big, furry animal headed women.


I mean, I'd def flip flop as Wolf headed Woman ... but I've been Femroe for years now, it's clear as day that not many would play that.
 

Draconis

Member
Oct 28, 2017
568
So, based on my understanding it looks like Gamespot talked to Yoshi P about this or someone on the team, and it was explained that Hrothgar was being worked on FIRST, and when they finished with the Hrothgar Men they diverted to Viera Women because Viera have been asked for nigh on forever.

There was also this tidbit on the FFXIV Lodestone General forums from a poster claiming to live in japan and being fluent in Japanese saying that the interview was mistranslated.

Just a note, that translation is not quite correct. What Yoshida said was that about 3 months after 4.0, they decided to implement Hrothgar. But they also wanted to make Viera. So the choice was between making female Hrothgar, or making female Viera. Meaning if they hadn't decided to make the female Viera, all we would have gotten would have been male and female Hrothgar.


EDIT: Just so you know how I know that, I live in Japan and am fluent in Japanese.

Leaving out the posters name on that forum because the last thing I want is for them to get backlash or hate. I've already seen people, on BOTH sides, overreacting WAYYYY too much on this. Example, Yoshi P and the Dev Team reportedly getting Death Threats and folks on the other side stating things that they are drinking up the tears of all of those souls who are upset that they didn't get Viera Men.

People need to calm down, step back, and take a deep breath. There is seriously far more important things to get upset about in this world then some of the over top insane reactions we are seeing over this. It's stupid. And it's crazy.


As it stands, I am fairly confident that they will review player feedback and introduce the other half of the races in time. FFXIV's development team is pretty good about listening to player feedback on matters. And they have a history of doing so and implementing requests and feedback over the history of the game.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,852
So, based on my understanding it looks like Gamespot talked to Yoshi P about this or someone on the team, and it was explained that Hrothgar was being worked on FIRST, and when they finished with the Hrothgar Men they diverted to Viera Women because Viera have been asked for nigh on forever.

No one would mind waiting for male Viera and female Hrothgar as long as we'd get a confirmation they're coming. It's not that hard for them to say "we've heard you loud and clear, and we'll work on making it happen. Just have some patience".
 

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
Viera Drama
giphy.gif


Honestly, I'm pretty upset with how full tantrum a lot of people have gone with this whole race nonsense. It takes away from valid criticisms when people are screaming WAH I WANTED TO BE BUNNY BOI!
People have a right to be upset about a race being genderlocked. Stop dismissing it just because YOU don't care. It doesn't take away anything because the criticism doesn't stop being valid because posters like you obviously do not care.

I never cared for new playable races. I wouldn't have played as a Viera both male or female. Hrothgar looks interesting to me but because it's genderlocked I'm not sure if I actually want to create one. This is disappointing because I didn't even want a new race and now I see one teased that is actually interesting for XIV and it's male only.

I think announcing a race with only 1 gender and not going further from there, plus the fact that male Viera are so rare that other games with Viera in haven't really shown them, is a legit reason to have only one gender. I don't personally think it's sexist (Male Miqo'te are often sexualised and it's well-known females play them with sexiness in mind, so let's tread carefully on screaming sexism) but if people feel it is then make your points known. Just don't shout down those who don't agree with you.
Mi'qote were also extremely rare yet guess what they did? Added them after the backlash of genderlocked races IN 1.0. Lore is a bad excuse especially for a game like XIV where the lore is constantly ignored.

It's obvious that Roth has to be single gender to counter balance the Viera out (we've already seen how upset people get about Mogstation items being mainly for female characters).
It isn't obvious at all. It's a crappy excuse so that they don't have to create a female model for the Hrothgar for resource purposes. If backlash matters enough to make Hrothgar the male equivalent then why exactly is genderlock criticism being called entitlement but gender lock for male fans isn't?

A lot of the arguments are that Viera are a "sexy" race but forget that Miqo'te are also the "sexy" race and the males are included in that "sexy" design. There are plenty of topless male miqo'te running around amongst the bikini girls and that a lot of MEN play female miqo'te and sex them up outfit wise as well. Au'Ra males can be considered sexy depending on your preference, same with Roes and Elezean. Elezean men are sexualised quite often on JP twitter.
Yes there has been sexualized male characters which is great but the fact is all of the female character designs are still very feminine and geared towards looking sexy. This is why Hrothgar would have been a great change for XIV.


In terms of the whole healer / dancer debate. I'm not disappointed in the slightest that DNC is a ranged DPS. It wasn't a healer in FFXI and has historically been a class that focuses on buffs and debuffs (IV After Years used white magic I think?). I am gutted no new healer as there was a new tank but it makes sense with what they want to do with tanks (2 MT and 2 OT). They wish to make that split more ... distinctive?

You misunderstand the criticism regarding DNC. People aren't upset that Dancer is a DPS job. They are are disappointed that there won't be a new healer job and the buildup to Dancer was in hope that this might be the next healer reveal. If they announced Geomancer or Chemist as the next healer then no one would even mention DNC being DPS.


Leaving out the posters name on that forum because the last thing I want is for them to get backlash or hate. I've already seen people, on BOTH sides, overreacting WAYYYY too much on this. Example, Yoshi P and the Dev Team reportedly getting Death Threats and folks on the other side stating things that they are drinking up the tears of all of those souls who are upset that they didn't get Viera Men.

People need to calm down, step back, and take a deep breath. There is seriously far more important things to get upset about in this world then some of the over top insane reactions we are seeing over this. It's stupid. And it's crazy.
I really think the other side who doesn't care about this controversy has overblown the reactions. Most people are expressing disappointment and critiquing the sexist aspects of Viera + healers being ignored again. If there is people threatening Yoshi and the development team they are a deranged minority.
 
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Draconis

Member
Oct 28, 2017
568
The FFXIV team is around 300 people, if I remember right. The problem is creating an enormous, modern, HD expansion in 2 years. And not being able to delay at all.
No one would mind waiting for male Viera and female Hrothgar as long as we'd get a confirmation they're coming. It's not that hard for them to say "we've heard you loud and clear, and we'll work on making it happen. Just have some patience".


Given some of the interviews thus far and Yoshi P stating that they need to look at the feedback, I'm fairly confident this will happen. I've been a player in the game all the way back in FFXI and FFXIV at Launch. Generally speaking, starting with Yoshi P taking over on FFXIV, they've had a really good track record of listening to player feedback and giving fans what they want. Viera for example, have been getting asked for all the way back in Heavensward. ( I still remember the fan disappointment when the Viera were NOT announced and we got the Au Ra instead. )

Square Enix, when it comes to FFXIV, has done far more than any MMO company ( Looking at you Bungie and Blizzard and Turbine and SOE etc, etc, etc ) when it comes to listening to their players and implementing their requests. So, given time, I'm fairly certain we'll see this happen.

I mean, we are talking that Hrothgar were started being worked on in 3.0

That means for 1 race, it took them about 2 years to do, or longer and said race still wasn't ready for reveal until the Fan Fest in Tokyo. Just for the Hrothgar men. That's an insane development. I already worry for most of the teams health and sake. They are literally killing themselves and you can see it and hear it when they talk in interviews. Every time I see Yoshi P in a fan fest or something I keep wanting to give the dude a several months long vacation and all the sleep he could use. Poor dude looks like he is barely functioning and awake a lot of the time.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
You clearly don't know what sexualized designs are if you think a kilt and battle armor is sexualized.
I do know what sexual designs are, I'm making a point though. :/

Point being that no one is the be all authority on the matter. Just because I/ you don't think something's hot doesn't mean it's not a turn on for others. Like I said ... this IS a thing. This race looks right at home in what seems to be a very popular area of furry art.

This Warrior of Light poster doesn't seem to be mad that the Viera are "sexualized" so much as they don't like that THEY didn't get something that appeals to their personal kink really ... and is calling it sexist because their kink didn't get targeted. Which makes this a very selfish debate on their side

I'm just making a point that "leather daddy" and Bara Cats appeal to some people's kink (Seemingly a gay sub culture with furry cross appeal).
 
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Jan 11, 2018
9,852
I'm just making a point that Bara Cats appeal to someone people's kink (Seemingly a gay sub culture with furry cross appeal).

You're also totally ignoring the massive straight female playerbase with your argument. Very few people are attracted to anthropomorphic animals. It's not comparable to bunny girls in skimpy gear that are more human than animal.
 

Draconis

Member
Oct 28, 2017
568
I hope it will. I'd just appreciate them actually acknowledging the situation. They've been through this before, with the miqo'te and roegadyn. You can't argue they didn't see this coming.


Oh, I'm certain to some extent that they did see it coming. And I am with you in hoping that it will change. More choice for everyone is only a good thing. But we also have to bear in mind in many sites efforts to rush out the story first, that journalistic integrity and translation issues can suffer in said rush. We are already seeing that in the translation error some are citing that live in Japan, as the interview with Yoshi P was misinterpreted. And we see that happen far more than we really should when it comes to translating Japanese interviews to english. Details and nuance matter especially with that language.

I cannot personally know as to why they made this decision the way they did. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say after they got Hrothgar men close they looked at the Au Ra dissapointment historically when Viera were not announced instead, and decided to go with the long requested Viera by fans, feeling that the Lore of the Viera Men being hidden and guarding the outskirts of their civilization would be accepted by most. In fact, I'd wager Japan itself is probably reacting differently than those of us in Europe and the West by comparison. But without time to look at their sites, etc, I cannot say for sure. Usually that's the case though in many situations. But I could be wrong.


Moving from your topic however briefly to discuss some of the reactions I am seeing on the net.


I can understand some people's reactions and disappointment. I truly can. But I also think folks need to take a step back and breath for a moment and look at things calmly. Both sides are acting poorly on the matter when it comes to folks acting in the extreme. The Devs should not be receiving Death Threats about this. Nor should other players be, as I have heard many say " Be basking in the salty tears of those pining for Viera Men and Hrothgar Women. "

That stuff is just ridiculous. We can discuss this all civilly as human beings without attacking one another, no matter how different our opinions may be. Folks should be doing so but in the ever escalating flame wars of the post apocalyptic world of " I need to be right on the internet. " folks tend to take it too far and react in ways I'd wager they would not do so when put face to face to a person.

It's sad, really.


Anyways, I need to hit the hay. Have to be in to work in a few hours. Take care all and if you are truly and deeply concerned about this, please go on the official ffxiv forums if you have an account in the game, and post well thought out, constructive feedback on your desire for Hrothgar Women and Viera Men. Get your feedback counted, and help make the difference you are clamoring for. :)
 

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
Anyway I'm going to move on from the Viera/Hrothgar/DNC topic in here since we already have a huge topic discussing this entire thing and I think it would better if most discussed it there.
I do know what sexual designs are, I'm making a point though. :/

Point being that no one is the be all authority on the matter. Just because I/ you don't think something's hot doesn't mean it's not a turn on for others. Like I said ... this IS a thing. This race looks right at home in what seems to be a very popular area of furry art.

This Warrior of Light poster doesn't seem to be mad that the Viera are "sexualized" so much as they don't like that THEY didn't get something that appeals to their personal kink really ... and is calling it sexist because their kink didn't get targeted. Which makes this a very selfish debate on their side

I'm just making a point that Bara Cats appeal to someone people's kink (Seemingly a gay sub culture with furry cross appeal).
No what you aren't understanding is that woman are constantly sexualized in every aspect of media while men do not receive even close to the same treatment.

Just because a niche group find bulky cat men attractive does not mean they are a sexualized design. Most men (especially straight men) will not look at these characters and feel uncomfortable or objectified because it has been designed to appeal to men wanting to play as strong looking characters and not people who get turned on by these designs. Kratos from God of War is a similar design and he is not sexualized in any form.

Male Viera being sexualized puts the race on a more even ground because now the sexualization that is so blatantly targeted towards female characters is shared with the male side. If you need any evidence of this, male Viera clearly is not an idea Yoshi is comfortable with based off his previous comment and why is that?

I disagree with this. I feel uncomfortable about how muscular all men have to be in games or movies and how that gives an unhealthy view of what men should look like.
I said most and the reality is men with your feelings are a minority or at least do not speak out against it. The design you are uncomfortable with isn't something woman are demanding. It's a lot of men's idealized body type and personality.
 
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Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
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Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Most men (especially straight men) will not look at these characters and feel uncomfortable or objectified because it has been designed to appeal to men wanting to play as strong looking characters and not people who get turned on by these designs.

I disagree with this. I feel uncomfortable about how muscular all men have to be in games or movies and how that gives an unhealthy view of what men should look like.
 

lemonade

Member
May 8, 2018
3,044
Maybe instead of calling the devs sexists, just consider the possibility that they just don't have enough time and delaying the game is not something they are in total control of.

I see people trying to represent different groups and argue on their behave. It's your personal opinion so maybe don't speak so confidently for others.

On the subject of handsome race though, let's all be real, there are only two good looking race in the game, the cats and the dragons. The humans only look good in CG.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
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Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Do you seriously think the amount of men who feel that way about Hrothgar equal the amount of women who feel that way about bunny girls with their asses hanging out?

Why does it matter how many? If some find it problematic to the point of having serious body image problems then that is a discussion that is just as valid as the sexualisation of women in media.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,852
Why does it matter how many? If some find it problematic to the point of having serious body image problems then that is a discussion that is just as valid as the sexualisation of women in media.

Because we're talking about this game?

Hrothgar is not on equal grounds with the Viera. It's neither the male Viera so many players want, nor is it comparable to it. That's really the bottom line here, no matter how you slice it. Arguing that "but a niche within a niche within a niche might find animals with proper lion heads and fur attractive, so it's your fault for not being attracted to them!" is such a disingenuous argument I don't even...

Maybe instead of calling the devs sexists, just consider the possibility that they just don't have enough time and delaying the game is not something they are in total control of.

Like I said, I think them just coming out and saying "we've heard you and we'll work on it, but it might take a while" would solve the problem for most people. Instead they're burying their heads in the sand.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
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7,628
Arguing that "but a niche within a niche within a niche might find animals with proper lion heads and fur attractive, so it's your fault for not being attracted to them!" is such a disingenuous argument I don't even...

I'm not on about the head and thanks for trying to put words into my mouth. I am saying that both races being gender locked are problematic for similar reasons (stereotyped sexualisation). Is one worse than the other? Sure, but this isn't a competition...
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,852
Most people who still request male Viera don't send death threats. It's totally fair game for customers to voice their opinions. It's how we get change. Without players doing this, we would probably never have received male Miqo'te or female Roegadyns. Please don't tell us to just accept the current situation because "it is what it is", or worse yet defend it because "lore".

I'm not on about the head and thanks for trying to put words into my mouth. I am saying that both races being gender locked are problematic for similar reasons (stereotyped sexualisation). Is one worse than the other? Sure, but this isn't a competition...

Sorry, that wasn't specifically aimed at you.
 

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
Why does it matter how many? If some find it problematic to the point of having serious body image problems then that is a discussion that is just as valid as the sexualisation of women in media.
Because it doesn't get to be used as a counter to Viera's blatant sexualization. If you are uncomfortable by the Hrothgar then you absolutely should be able to feel that way and voice it but if the only reason you feel the need to bring it up is to dismiss peoples concerns over the treatment of Viera because you personally felt uncomfortable by the Hrothgar then that is not a fair argument.

The fact is the Hrothgar still received a completely normal trailer reveal and happen to be a beast race which already lowers the comparison

Maybe instead of calling the devs sexists, just consider the possibility that they just don't have enough time and delaying the game is not something they are in total control of.

I see people trying to represent different groups and argue on their behave. It's your personal opinion so maybe don't speak so confidently for others.

On the subject of handsome race though, let's all be real, there are only two good looking race in the game, the cats and the dragons. The humans only look good in CG.
I think the dev's have been wonderful with representation and diversity however the Viera are undoubtedly sexist with how they have been portrayed and revealed.

It doesn't mean I think they are monsters or anything. Just disappointed.
 

Deleted member 32018

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Nov 8, 2017
7,628
I said most and the reality is men with your feelings are a minority or at least do not speak out against it.

Because men from my generation were brought up to not have feelings which is why it doesn't get talked about

Anyway, we are on the same page and I'm not trying to dismiss your point at all and I fully agree with you. I do completely understand why women find the fact that we only have female Viera to be problematic.

The design you are uncomfortable with isn't something woman are demanding. It's a lot of men's idealized body type and personality.

Oh I'm not saying that women are demanding it, especially not in the same way or amount that men demanded Fran-style Viera. I was just stating that the Hrothgar are also stereotypical too and that is also a problem and is also why we should have female Hrothgar too.

Sorry, that wasn't specifically aimed at you.

Np :)
 
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HyperFerret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
I hope Hrothgar are like three or four feet tall.

I know they won't be and just be roe size but I can dream :c

Also a chunk of my FC are fantasiaing to them, lol. I never would be able to do it, it would break my immersion too much. Just imaging going to the waking sands is killing me. I feel like Tataru would be terrified that the newest Scion would eat her hahahaha
 

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
Because men from my generation were brought up to not have feelings which is why it doesn't get talked about
Anyway, we are on the same page and I'm not trying to dismiss your point at all and I fully agree with you. I do completely understand why women find the fact that we only have female Viera to be problematic.
Oh I'm not saying that women are demanding it, especially not in the same way or amount that men demanded Fran-style Viera. I was just stating that the Hrothgar are also stereotypical too and that is also a problem and is also why we should have female Hrothgar too.
Oh okay I get you now.

I also agree with you about men not being able to express their feelings which is an unfortunate thing drowned out by vocal men saying it's not masculine.
I hope Hrothgar are like three or four feet tall.

I know they won't be and just be roe size but I can dream :c

Also a chunk of my FC are fantasiaing to them, lol. I never would be able to do it, it would break my immersion too much. Just imaging going to the waking sands is killing me. I feel like Tataru would be terrified that the newest Scion would eat her hahahaha
I won't fantasia into one but I do really want to play as one and if I can't make a female one I'll create a new character and see what the options for them are. Apparently there might be a wolf facial option too but it isn't confirmed if that was scrapped or not.

If wolf face happens I might be maining two characters now.
 

Lauren

Member
Feb 16, 2018
83
Cardiff
People have a right to be upset about a race being genderlocked. Stop dismissing it just because YOU don't care. It doesn't take away anything because the criticism doesn't stop being valid because posters like you obviously do not care.

I said the tantrums take away from valid concerns and criticism. ME TELLING SOMEONE TO F**K OFF OMG HATE SPEECH IN MY MMO compared to "I believe x is x because x" is massively different.

I do care to a degree or I wouldn't whittle into the conversation or bother to respond to you. I don't care in terms of "it doesn't affect me" because it simply doesn't. I've wanted female viera for ages and I was planning on playing it. I'm excited for it.

Devs also kind of skip over posts that are overtly aggressive. This has happened recently with EA and Anthem, the CM said devs stopped responding because people just shout at them. No one deserves to go to work and do their job and shift through aggressive or angry messages. People can be critical without being an asshole - there are people who are acting like assholes because the game is doing/designing something different from what they wanted. And honestly, if that's how they act when a VIDEO GAME does something they don't like, I'm happy for them to leave. I'd rather people explain in great detail and time why they think something is bad, over just screaming.

Case and point, I'm ignoring the big caps locked posts and just reading the longer ones that actually have some effort into them. I also ignore stuff where people name call the dev team and yoshi-p. It helps no one.

Mi'qote were also extremely rare yet guess what they did? Added them after the backlash of genderlocked races IN 1.0. Lore is a bad excuse especially for a game like XIV where the lore is constantly ignored.

It isn't obvious at all. It's a crappy excuse so that they don't have to create a female model for the Hrothgar for resource purposes. If backlash matters enough to make Hrothgar the male equivalent then why exactly is genderlock criticism being called entitlement but gender lock for male fans isn't?

Just because lore isn't an excuse you accept, or they've changed their feelings about it in the past, doesn't invalidate their reason here. They have said it's becuase of lore and time restraints. They wanted ot introduce a well loved and wanted race but also wanted to introduce a beast-like race that people have also been calling for. They decided this was the way to do it. Doesn't mean they're right but that is their "excuse" so people claiming there is "no excuse" need to relax a tad.

Development is expensive and difficult and time restraint. FFXIV is starting to become an older MMO, which means less money is going to be thrown at it by SE compared to a new game. We need to be realistic about it.

Is it fair? Fair is a strong word. It feeeeels bad from a player customisation point of view, yes. Unjust? No.... ofc not. It's a video game. The correct way to do it? Not really if I was in charge but I'm not. It might be that the reality is that making races is just really fucking expensive and they have their budget for the next few years planned out and they had to be real about it. Same reason about healer balancing. Time and money. FFXIV is sold heavily on being a story FF as well. They are focusing on that a ton (hense the trust system).

In terms of gender locking being obvious: It is obvious to me from a PR standpoint. You can't introduce a female only race and not add a male only one because people will complain the female characters are getting more. The Galka and Mithra were perfect offsets of this argument. You don't have to like it, it's just a reason as to why.

In terms of entitlement: I haven't seen a split in "entitlement" differences tbh.

Yes there has been sexualized male characters which is great but the fact is all of the female character designs are still very feminine and geared towards looking sexy. This is why Hrothgar would have been a great change for XIV.

I agree with this but I am also aware of the popularity, numbers of people, and how many are actually going to pick up a Hroth. We have to wait and see tbh. People are linking female Ronso designs who are also scantily clad and sexualised as well. *shrugs*


You misunderstand the criticism regarding DNC. People aren't upset that Dancer is a DPS job. They are are disappointed that there won't be a new healer job and the buildup to Dancer was in hope that this might be the next healer reveal. If they announced Geomancer or Chemist as the next healer then no one would even mention DNC being DPS.

I don't misunderstand at all. There is a subset of people who are ANGRY (actually angry) that DNC isn't a healer. I know a lot of people are more upset about hte lack of healer job (I'm gutted but not upset) but a lot of people were mashing about DNC not being a healer because of a leak confirming they were.

I really think the other side who doesn't care about this controversy has overblown the reactions. Most people are expressing disappointment and critiquing the sexist aspects of Viera + healers being ignored again. If there is people threatening Yoshi and the development team they are a deranged minority.

We haven't. I have no idea where this mindset has come from? I've seen posts that say not having male viera is homophobic. That's INSANE to me.
Maybe people don't notice these posts as much if they agree with the "core" of them. Maybe I'm more up to date with posts before they're getting moderated? Everywhere I go, discord, Reddit, forums etc people are losing their collective shit with some interesting dialogue in between. There are also a ton of irritating posts from people asking those to shut up as well.

I think the sad thing is that people arguing with people who aren't going to change their minds. I have no intention of changing anyone's mind with my post. I don't expect yours to get changed either. It's just sad people crying about transphobia and sexism where I think it's misplaced.

It's a video game. Not a players freedom of expression or ideas. It's a developers expression of ideas - not agreeing with them is fine.

I think more people should disagree in a way that makes an impact (aka cancelling pre-orders/subscription). There are lots of people saying they're done with this game, but will probably still pre-order, keep their sub up and buy a fantasia from the mogstation.

If I've ever disagreed with design decisions in an mmo, I've simply just quit.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Oh okay I get you now.

I also agree with you about men not being able to express their feelings which is an unfortunate thing drowned out by vocal men saying it's not masculine.

Thanks, yeah sorry I perhaps didn't articulate my point very well.

I hope that they do decide to include the other genders so it doesn't overshadow what looks to be a fun expansion otherwise. It's a real shame that they got this decision so horribly wrong as I love 14 and loved 11 before it.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,852
Quiet wore next to nothing in MGSV because of "lore". Lore is not a get out of jail free card for devs. People were right to criticise it. As they are with the decision to genderlock Viera, and to sexualise it. Heck, the lore reason doesn't even hold up to scrutiny. Eorzea is not Ivalice, and male Viera aren't extinct. Not to mention you'll soon be able to drive around Eorzea in a futuristic car.

So now we know they cancelled female Hrothgar to make way for sexualised Viera. That doesn't make the situation any better.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
You're also totally ignoring the massive straight female playerbase with your argument. Very few people are attracted to anthropomorphic animals. It's not comparable to bunny girls in skimpy gear that are more human than animal.

No, I'm not ignoring anything. I asked you more than once to please describe to me a female character that "Panders" to females. You decided to ignore that. Also I'd say the furry fandom in Eastern games communities is fairly large though that's beside the point.

I'll add this post to get to my point in asking you this ...

No what you aren't understanding is that woman are constantly sexualized in every aspect of media while men do not receive even close to the same treatment.

No, I do understand this.

making it smmaaaallll said:
The thing is you both seem to be coming at this from the stand point that these females are made for male gaze. I mean, yes, straight men DO prefer attractive and cute female characters ... but the same is true for Females.

The most popular active female characters being played? Cats-> Dragon Girls-> Potatoes-> Humans -----------------(deep drop off)-----> the failed Elezen race and finally the Femroe. (This is in no small part caused by the "Weeb culture" that has been grown in this game. GW2 has an even spread through out it's non-human races and genders and that game has flat out cat monsters that run on all 4s and small gray goblins as races! So yeah, I'm only talking about this data in regards to this game)

Looking at this data and assuming that by large the females player-base are playing females it's clear that women prefer to play as the more attractive types that also have animal features. It's also clear that the least popular are the Femroe and the failed race Elezen (with their janky elezen animations) comes in 2nd to last.

Looking at all that it makes sense why after ungenderlocking Roe they went on to make Dragon Girls be the most petite lil Waifu looking deamon women they could muster regardless of what they were doing with the males. I worked, they're hella popular as you can see. Loved by those playing female toons.

So naturally if you give female players more of THAT you're gonna get Viera. You're gonna get attractive females that fill other niches not covered by the current ones.

Males, however, seem to play their races more evenly. Now, I can say with full certainty that Dragon boys were pandering to young men. They're edgy and tall and young looking and the star of the DRK story and they have all these anime protag hair styles and massive horns and resting asshole face.
Sure, you can ask for a male race that looks as good to female gaze as their races look to males but ... whose gonna bother playing them? Looking at that data I'd say there's room for another take on a large, tall race with animal like features seeing how well the Scaly Bois did.
That size and build plus cat and wolf features can appeal to cat bois who want to be buffer and Roe who wanna be taller/ beastly as well as some humans who didn't like the normal cat bois and stayed human instead.
Bunny Bois, much like YP said, COULD mostly just be seen as one of these slim races with different ears which wouldn't excite too many of the people who play males.

That's my take on it at least.
This game isn't B&S or Tera where women are by large treated as male eye candy. That being said ... sadly most people who play females in THIS GAME don't bother with the ones who aren't conventionally attractive. So yeah, that's how you get pretty women and wild looking dudes.

Welp, said my bit. Hope you better understand my point.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,852
No, I'm not ignoring anything. I asked you more than once to please describe to me a female character that "Panders" to females. You decided to ignore that. Also I'd say the furry fandom in Eastern games communities is fairly large though that's beside the point.

The furry fandom dwarves in comparison to the amount of straight men who find playboy bunnies attractive. It's not a fair comparison at all. You're arguing in bad faith here.

While I'm not female, most of the players I've talked to and befriended in this game are. Did you not notice the Ser Aymeric fan club? I'm sure someone as attractive as him with less clothes would do the trick for many women.

I've also seen plenty of female fans repost this as an example of what they would have liked like to see:

8aTyWzp.jpg


This is a good male equivalent of the female Viera.
 

Draconis

Member
Oct 28, 2017
568
Most people who still request male Viera don't send death threats. It's totally fair game for customers to voice their opinions. It's how we get change. Without players doing this, we would probably never have received male Miqo'te or female Roegadyns. Please don't tell us to just accept the current situation because "it is what it is", or worse yet defend it because "lore".

I am curious, was the bit about the death threats in response to me? If so, not sure why I wasn't quoted.

Also, pasting in another bit from another Lauren here as it is relevant as to what I am about to say in regards to this.


I said the tantrums take away from valid concerns and criticism. ME TELLING SOMEONE TO F**K OFF OMG HATE SPEECH IN MY MMO compared to "I believe x is x because x" is massively different.

I do care to a degree or I wouldn't whittle into the conversation or bother to respond to you. I don't care in terms of "it doesn't affect me" because it simply doesn't. I've wanted female viera for ages and I was planning on playing it. I'm excited for it.

Devs also kind of skip over posts that are overtly aggressive. This has happened recently with EA and Anthem, the CM said devs stopped responding because people just shout at them. No one deserves to go to work and do their job and shift through aggressive or angry messages. People can be critical without being an asshole - there are people who are acting like assholes because the game is doing/designing something different from what they wanted. And honestly, if that's how they act when a VIDEO GAME does something they don't like, I'm happy for them to leave. I'd rather people explain in great detail and time why they think something is bad, over just screaming.

Case and point, I'm ignoring the big caps locked posts and just reading the longer ones that actually have some effort into them. I also ignore stuff where people name call the dev team and yoshi-p. It helps no one.





Just because lore isn't an excuse you accept, or they've changed their feelings about it in the past, doesn't invalidate their reason here. They have said it's becuase of lore and time restraints. They wanted ot introduce a well loved and wanted race but also wanted to introduce a beast-like race that people have also been calling for. They decided this was the way to do it. Doesn't mean they're right but that is their "excuse" so people claiming there is "no excuse" need to relax a tad.

Development is expensive and difficult and time restraint. FFXIV is starting to become an older MMO, which means less money is going to be thrown at it by SE compared to a new game. We need to be realistic about it.

Now then, to address the Death Threats thing. I'm not sure I'd use the qualifier of MOST people right now as in my view, the community as a whole is pretty much collectively losing their shit at the moment over not only the Hrothgar Women issue alongside Viera Men, but Dancer not being a healer and other things as well. I expect this to continue until things calm down some and people come to terms and acceptance with their feelings. As I feel their rage is a form of disappointment and grief over the issue.

Case in point, this post on Reddit to help bring across my thoughts more succinctly.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/b4w3g7/toxicity_within_ffxiv/

Right now the moderation teams in Reddit, and in FFXIV Lodestone are scrambling to deal with people who are going clearly off the rails. Most people are, in my opinion, way too heated on this. And I have been watching both Reddit for FFXIV and the Forums on the Lodestone for a while now and it is a freaking bloodbath. People getting banned, people screaming at the devs and being toxic to other players, calling them sexist and far worse things, and threads getting constantly deleted and players banned from the forums for behavior that clearly breaches the TOS of the game, such as attacking the development team, and being generally hostile about this.

While I have no idea how many players are being in line about things and civil, it's clear right now a fair amount to a large amount of people are not. Especially given the post I pasted from reddit where the Moderator teams are struggling to keep up with this. It's a problem, and people need to calm the hell down. No matter how one feels, some of the behavior we are witnessing from this is reprehensible.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,852
Yoshi-P will consider fan feedback.

Users on the official forum have created threads in which players can like their posts and/or reply if they want to see male Viera and/or female Hrothgar. That's the best place to voice your support.

Male Viera support thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...ra-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support

Female Hrothgar support thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...othgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support!

Log in, like and be respectful!

I am curious, was the bit about the death threats in response to me? If so, not sure why I wasn't quoted.

It was more of a statement in general about how vocal criticism about the lack of male Viera and the blatant sexualisation of female characters is being met by some people, as if none of it was valid because a few rotten eggs send death threats to the devs. Most people simply post replies to their official tweets saying "we still want male Viera, please!!!". That's not a lynch mob going on some unjust "crusade" against Square Enix.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
Hrothgar is not on equal grounds with the Viera. It's neither the male Viera so many players want, nor is it comparable to it. That's really the bottom line here, no matter how you slice it. Arguing that "but a niche within a niche within a niche might find animals with proper lion heads and fur attractive, so it's your fault for not being attracted to them!" is such a disingenuous argument I don't even...
.
You're not getting it at all are you? -_-


The furry fandom dwarves in comparison to the amount of straight men who find playboy bunnies attractive. It's not a fair comparison at all. You're arguing in bad faith here.

While I'm not female, most of the players I've talked to and befriended in this game are. Did you not notice the Ser Aymeric fan club? I'm sure someone as attractive as him with less clothes would do the trick for many women.

I've also seen plenty of female fans repost this as an example of what they would have liked like to see:

8aTyWzp.jpg


This is a good male equivalent of the female Viera.

Not getting it one bit ...

Like I said, you're assuming that they make females to be gazed at by males and you think male Viera would be the counter to that ... when I just showed you that the most played females are the attractive/ cute ones. And assuming that women by far play more female characters ... that would mean that both straight men and women like attractive/ cute female toons.

So I asked you to show me a female design that panders to women. That's who they make these female characters for, for the people playing females. From the looks of the race popularity F Viera are gonna be a hit with people who play female toons but by all means, show me something different.

Like I said, I can say that I'm 100% sure the Scaly Bois where made to pander (AKA Appeal) to young men.

Now you show me this Male Viera as an example of what females would gaze at.
Ok .... so who is gonna play this?
Is the person with a Scaly Boi gonna say "Coool, I'm gonna turn in my big horns an tail and bad ass racial hair to be shorter and have bunny ears"?
I'm sure some will.

What about the guy with a cat boi or a Reg Boi or the Elezen? Is he gonna say "sure, I wanna roll with bunny ears now instead of the ones I already got"?
I'm sure some will.

But I don't think a lot will ... and I think that's YP's point.

On the other hand ... Beastly Bara Cats with all these supposed options? You appeal to the ones who feel Scaly Bois aint beastly enough, you can appeal to the Roebros who wanna be TALLER and FIT, you can appeal to the Cat Bois who wanna be bigger and buffer and more cat like (And the gay guys who play Roe and cat bois as well clearly), you can appeal to the Human who doesn't like cats or Scaly bois but would LOVE to be a WEREWOLF. Probly will end up with a sizable fanbase. Prob not a blockbuster but decent like any other non Roebro or elezen male.

So yeah, like I said, they make the genders to be played. Femroe's less-than-8k numbers makes me doubt they ever intended to make Buff Lion girls.
(And before you even do it I'm gonna remind you that vocal minorities are a thing. A handful of people who play this game are gonna scream on and on about how much they love this or that concept for Male Viera ... just like how people talked on and on about how they wanted a FemRoe I'm sure.)
 
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aceface

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,966
It's a video game. Not a players freedom of expression or ideas. It's a developers expression of ideas - not agreeing with them is fine.

I think more people should disagree in a way that makes an impact (aka cancelling pre-orders/subscription). There are lots of people saying they're done with this game, but will probably still pre-order, keep their sub up and buy a fantasia from the mogstation.

If I've ever disagreed with design decisions in an mmo, I've simply just quit.

The problem with this mindset is people have invested time in the game with leveling classes, have houses they don't want to give up, have friend groups on the game they don't want to leave behind. They are invested in it and can't really leave without giving up things that are hard to give up. That's why you see the impassioned responses. I'm kind of in this boat. I have a great group of friends I play with on the game. We've been playing together as a raid group for about 3 years now and we all got together at Fanfest this last Nov. If I just up and left because I'm upset about this I would really miss the ~3 times a week we all get together in the game. There's also all the time I put into leveling classes and raid progression which would be lost.

So, I have to decide- am I mad enough about this to leave all that behind? TBH I've always found the way that many players dress up the female races to be kind of gross. However, there is equal opportunity sexualization since you can just as soon have a buff catboy wearing next to nothing too. That's why the recent announcement stings so much. We got another sexualized, female race and that's fine, it is what it is. But genderlocking the race takes it from "well, both genders can be equally naked" to what seems like a race designed only to pander to a straight male audience. To make it worse, the male race they presented (Hrothgar) is something only a pretty small group would consider to be sexy. I wouldn't have even had as much of a problem with it if Viera had been shown in anything except the skimpiest of clothing in any of the official materials so far. So in the end it makes me sad that this is what the game is pushing to sell subs but since I don't want to leave behind the friends made and time spent in the game, I won't leave.

Also, I want to recognize that this game has done good things, especially for a Japanese developer. For example, having an official float in Sydney's Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade this year or having gay marriage in the game. That they've done these good things make me wonder how they could have gotten it so wrong with genderlocking Viera.

Then the cynical part of me says they already have male Viera and female Hrothgar in the works for 6.0 and this is all just a ploy to sell twice as many fantasias.
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,852
Ok .... so who is gonna play this?

A ton of people. What a silly question.

You're not getting it at all are you? -_-
Not getting it one bit ...

Eh, you're the one who's not getting it. We're not getting any further here.

So, I have to decide- am I mad enough about this to leave all that behind? TBH I've always found the way that many players dress up the female races to be kind of gross. However, there is equal opportunity sexualization since you can just as soon have a buff catboy wearing next to nothing too. That's why the recent announcement stings so much. We got another sexualized, female race and that's fine, it is what it is. But genderlocking the race takes it from "well, both genders can be equally naked" to what seems like a race designed only to pander to a straight male audience. To make it worse, the male race they presented (Hrothgar) is something only a pretty small group would consider to be sexy. I wouldn't have even had as much of a problem with it if Viera had been shown in anything except the skimpiest of clothing in any of the official materials so far. So in the end it makes me sad that this is what the game is pushing to sell subs but since I don't want to leave behind the friends made and time spent in the game, I won't leave.

Someone who gets it.
 

Allard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,927
Now that we know literally all the new maps are in the world map for Norvandt I find it interesting no one has thought about this, while the map won't be the same there will be enough parallels that it will feel like a 'light world' version of Eorzea, which means Yoshida managed to get resources to allow people to fly in an alternate version of the ARR maps without actually spending resources on changing the old ones to be able to fly. In addition all the media from the new locales has shown an intent to bring back a lot of stuff that seems to have been nixed before 1.0 or before a realm reborn (All the gear shown seems heavily 1.0 inspired), curious what else might show up.

Also story wise Yoshida mentioned that the story around the crystal tower being a foreign object in this world (it couldn't be there as a copy of the source as it showed up after the split), in the opening trailer you can see all the shards displayed and it seemed like the crystal hand character was observing the balance in each shard with our own source in the middle. Going to guess whatever is occuring on this world that if it manages to completely be obliterated in light, due to some kind of link the crystal tower has to all shards it might start a chain reaction which is why we are there.
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,270
I know I'm fighting a losing battle on this one but it does kind of bum me out that the controversy over people not getting their buff wolf ladys/sexy bunny boys has reached such a level as to get headlines in Kotaku and Gamespot considering the elephant in the room for me for the last entire expansion cycle has been Yoshi's complete creative bankruptcy with what to do with certain jobs or the encounter design at all. Being told that we can't have another healer for literally, literally the same reasoning that they gave for not adding a healer last time is such an inexcusable thing and none of that gets called out because of effectively cosmetic complaints.

I don't mean to diminish the reasoning for the upset over the Viera thing - because I do agree that a lot of it boils down to backwards sexist notions - I just think it shows how much of an afterthought the actual gameplay portion of this game is not just for Yoshi, but at this point the playerbase as well. When all the jobs are effectively re-skins anyway, of course adding a new race is what actually motivates people more.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,422
I know I'm fighting a losing battle on this one but it does kind of bum me out that the controversy over people not getting their buff wolf ladys/sexy bunny boys has reached such a level as to get headlines in Kotaku and Gamespot considering the elephant in the room for me for the last entire expansion cycle has been Yoshi's complete creative bankruptcy with what to do with certain jobs or the encounter design at all. Being told that we can't have another healer for literally, literally the same reasoning that they gave for not adding a healer last time is such an inexcusable thing and none of that gets called out because of effectively cosmetic complaints.

I don't mean to diminish the reasoning for the upset over the Viera thing - because I do agree that a lot of it boils down to backwards sexist notions - I just think it shows how much of an afterthought the actual gameplay portion of this game is not just for Yoshi, but at this point the playerbase as well. When all the jobs are effectively re-skins anyway, of course adding a new race is what actually motivates people more.
Maybe people are waiting to see what the combat changes are before flipping out over the state of the jobs?
 

Haubergeon

Member
Jan 22, 2019
2,270
That's fair, I'm certainly holding out for a dramatic re-work of the way the healers work, that would be great - but it's hard for me to have any confidence in that when they're trotting out that explanation a second time.
 

MoonToon

Banned
Nov 9, 2018
2,029
A ton of people. What a silly question.
It's actually not a silly question ... I'm basically saying this.
" but at any rate, since we're creating a fantasy, I want to shine a spotlight on that aspect as well. Even if we added another handsome race, it felt like the only real difference would be the ear shape. Back when we showed off a basic sketch of a wolfman, a lot of players around the world voiced their desire for a wolf race in 4.0. At our current patch rate, with that much equipment data being released, and adding a new race multiplying the amount of work required, we could probably only add one more race with our current workflow. We agonized over which race to add, and ended up with what you see now, and the lion T-shirt I'm wearing now *laughs* "

It's really simple, an answer to the question of why we get Viera and Beast bois. History shows that players are more likely to play cute and attractive females. History also shows that people who play male characters generally respond much better to departures from default attractive human shape than people who play females.
To YP adding another slim pretty male but with different ears wouldn't be a real difference.

That's what I've been saying, they design these characters for the people who want to play them ... not for some kinda outside gazing. So yeah, I personally agree with him on this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,944
Meanwhile, female dancers are allergic to pants while male dancers are not crippled by the same terrible malady.

Game panders like crazy and it's not exactly a secret.

That's fair, I'm certainly holding out for a dramatic re-work of the way the healers work, that would be great - but it's hard for me to have any confidence in that when they're trotting out that explanation a second time.

One interesting thing we will get this time is getting to see how all the possible responses work--MCH seems to be basically getting memory holed after the botched Stormblood fix so people can go "FINALLY an alternative to bard!" with Dancer, Gunblade letting them split tanking into two discrete mini-roles of two jobs each, and healer rebalance's second attempt trying to just fix the pieces already in play. It'll be incredibly. interesting to see what pans out and what doesn't.

'Fixing' the healers is going to be an absolute bear of a task, because it feels like what they have to do to get WHM a seat at the table with XIV functioning the way it does is emphatically not what a relatively large chunk of the ride or die WHM playerbase wants to see in their job. There's a ton of interesting things they could do (and, if the recent interview is to be believed, Yoshida is acknowledging that the fairy has been a massive contributor to the SCH part of healer imbalance which has to be a positive), and a lot that could change the way each healing job plays, so hopefully by being the one part of party comp that isn't being impacted by new jobs lets them meaningfully address some things.

But really the game has always been about packaging over combat systems--it's insane to me to look at how coy they are with battle system changes, which we'll get a vague overview of in a few months followed by a bunch of information relayed from a press preview (which, last time, included flat-out incorrect information), with actual concrete details coming at the last possible moment. It's just we're deep enough into the game's life by now I just figured we're all used to the systemic stuff being a secondary or tertiary concern.
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,575
That may live letter showing battle system changes better be on point and focused and not waste 10 fucking minutes watching a lala in a swimsuit swim around and emote on a beach like last time.

We did even learn how complex some job changes like Bard became until after because they wasted so much time
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,068
Yoshi-P will consider fan feedback.

Users on the official forum have created threads in which players can like their posts and/or reply if they want to see male Viera and/or female Hrothgar. That's the best place to voice your support.

Male Viera support thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385710-Male-Viera-as-a-playable-character!-show-your-support

Female Hrothgar support thread:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/385999-Female-Hrothgar-as-a-playable-race.-Show-your-support!

Log in, like and be respectful!



It was more of a statement in general about how vocal criticism about the lack of male Viera and the blatant sexualisation of female characters is being met by some people, as if none of it was valid because a few rotten eggs send death threats to the devs. Most people simply post replies to their official tweets saying "we still want male Viera, please!!!". That's not a lynch mob going on some unjust "crusade" against Square Enix.

Was about to post the reddit thread about this as well XD:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/b586af/yoshi_p_comments_on_the_genderlock_controversy/

So yeah, be respectful and polite while voicing your support for them. :)
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,030
I should have BRD at 70 tonight. I think I'm going to level BLM or DRK next. I might focus on BLM. If I can get it to 70, I'll have one of each type of job to 70.
 

ebi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
326
That may live letter showing battle system changes better be on point and focused and not waste 10 fucking minutes watching a lala in a swimsuit swim around and emote on a beach like last time.

We did even learn how complex some job changes like Bard became until after because they wasted so much time
Unless they change the structure of their 4 hours preview live letter I'm not expecting much on that front. It's the third cycle of this stuff, we'll learn just how the jobs work with the preliminary patch notes just like the last 2 expansions. At least the job action trailer will be exciting!
 
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