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Smokeymicpot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,838
https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.1e10bb77d599

Federal prosecutors on Thursday accused WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange of violating the Espionage Act, bringing against him a new, 18-count indictment alleging he unlawfully obtained and disclosed national defense information.

The new charges dramatically raise the stakes of the case both for Assange and the news media, raising questions about the limits of the First Amendment and protections for publishers of classified information.

Prosecutors allege Assange worked with a former Army intelligence analyst to obtain and disseminate classified information — conduct of which many traditional reporters might also be accused. Prosecutors, though, sought to distinguish the anti-secrecy advocate from a traditional reporter.

"Julian Assange is no journalist," said John Demers, the Justice Department's Assistant Attorney General for National Security. He said Assange engaged in "explicit solicitation of classified information."

But the new charges against Assange carry potential consequences not just for him, but for others who publish classified information, and could change the delicate balance in U.S. law between press freedom and government secrecy. They also raises fresh questions about whether the British courts will view the new charges as justified and worthy of extradition.

Prosecutors alleged in the new indictment that Assange and WikiLeaks "repeatedly encouraged sources with access to classified information to steal it" and give it to the anti-secrecy organization, posting on its website a "most wanted" list for leaks organized by country and saying the documents must be "likely to have political, diplomatic, ethical or historical impact on release." They alleged that Manning responded to that clarion call, downloading nearly four completely government databases of war reports, Guantanamo Bay detainee assessments and State Department cables and turned them over to WikiLeaks.
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,418


gonna have to see how this shakes out but initial reactions seem to be that this is what everyone was worried about re: prosecuting Assange. I had hoped they'd find something to charge him with that didn't have implications for real journalists.
 
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Deleted member 4346

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,976
This will have a chilling effect on journalists. Such a bad idea. Assange is a shitty person, no argument there, but this is bigger than him.
 

OtherWorldly

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,857
One of the charges implies that if he is convicted on that . Any journalist can be thrown in jail for leaking information deemed classified

Trump JD using Assange conviction to find precedent to jail real journalists

Hopefully a judge throws out that charge
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,851
This is really bad. Wikileaks is a publisher no matter what you think about him.

Edit: There is no difference before the eyes of the laws in the Washington Post publishing the Pentagon Papers and what Wikileaks does.

The government does not have a right to prosecute publishers from publishing leaks. Same thing with other outlets reporting and publishing classified information first reported by others. Bureaucrats will classify anything to cover their ass.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
The Espionage Act sucks
Julian Assange sucks

I wish the US had used literally anything else to get him extradited. I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out.

Assange is as much of a "journalist" as RT is a news network. There's no slippery slope effect here.
I think the chilling effect concern would be with respect to Wikileaks and whether or not it counts as a "news organization". Obama's Justice Department said as much in the linked article from 2013:
"The problem the department has always had in investigating Julian Assange is there is no way to prosecute him for publishing information without the same theory being applied to journalists," said former Justice Department spokesman Matthew Miller. "And if you are not going to prosecute journalists for publishing classified information, which the department is not, then there is no way to prosecute Assange."


Justice officials said they looked hard at Assange but realized that they have what they described as a "New York Times problem." If the Justice Department indicted Assange, it would also have to prosecute the New York Times and other news organizations and writers who published classified material, including The Washington Post and Britain's Guardian newspaper, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.
I haven't followed the updates on him too closely. Is there more evidence of him directly committing a crime now than there was in 2013?
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,418
Assange is as much of a "journalist" as RT is a news network. There's no slippery slope effect here.
I mean, there's a reason these charges weren't brought up under the Obama administration. Every single lawyer I follow on twitter is concerned about the implications of an espionage act prosecution of Assange for publishing, not to mention the reaction from journalists.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,413
Assange sucks but if he has to get away with his shit in order to preserve freedom of the press, that's perfectly fine. The current administration is far too evil to allow even a shred of press freedoms to be eroded.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I think the context of 2016's revelations about WikiLeaks' actual nature make this a very, very different argument today than it would have been under the Obama administration.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,851
I think the context of 2016's revelations about WikiLeaks' actual nature make this a very, very different argument today than it would have been under the Obama administration.
No it doesn't. And good luck protecting our liberties when we have a President who says the press is fake news and an enemy of the people.

 

Big-E

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,169
I just did some quick google searching and it looks like there is no real professional organization that certifies and disciplines journalists? If there is no such thing in place, then those saying Assange isn't a journalist so it is ok is a pretty weak argument as what makes someone a journalist then?
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
His a dick but I don't want to see him extradited to face these charges.

This has far wider implications on the press than just Assange.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
I know there's a lot of innuendo around his ties to Russian intelligence but are there any good writeups proving and or disproving his alleged ties?
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,851
I just did some quick google searching and it looks like there is no real professional organization that certifies and disciplines journalists? If there is no such thing in place, then those saying Assange isn't a journalist so it is ok is a pretty weak argument as what makes someone a journalist then?
The 1st amendment matters now more than ever.
 

WedgeX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,172
Assange/Wikileaks was basically a thinly-veiled third party, non-governmental intelligence service.
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,418
I just did some quick google searching and it looks like there is no real professional organization that certifies and disciplines journalists? If there is no such thing in place, then those saying Assange isn't a journalist so it is ok is a pretty weak argument as what makes someone a journalist then?
Right, you don't need any sort of accreditation to be "a journalist". A journalist is someone who engages in the act of journalism. We don't want DOJ deciding who is and isn't a journalist.
Yes, it does, when Assange is an agent of a foreign state intelligence agency.
Assange is a complete shithead but you're wrong here. The indictment doesn't even allege that he's a foreign agent or anything of the sort, which would be kind of important if that was key to distinguishing him from the New York Times. The legal theory they're using here and text of the law could easily be applied to any journalist publishing classified information.
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
Right, you don't need any sort of accreditation to be "a journalist". A journalist is someone who engages in the act of journalism. We don't want DOJ deciding who is and isn't a journalist.

Assange is a complete shithead but you're wrong here. The indictment doesn't even allege that he's a foreign agent or anything of the sort, which would be kind of important if that was key to distinguishing him from the New York Times. The legal theory they're using here and text of the law could easily be applied to any journalist publishing classified information.

This
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
via Politico- https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/23/doj-accuses-assange-of-violating-espionage-act-1342653
Zach Terwilliger, the assistant U.S. attorney in the Eastern District of Virginia, emphasized that the government was "not charging Assange for passively obtaining classified information." Rather, he is being prosecuted for publishing "a narrow set of classified documents in which Assange also published the names of innocent people who risked their safety" to help the United States.

"Assange is not charged simply because he is a publisher," Terwilliger told reporters on Thursday.

John Demers, head of DOJ's national security division, argued that Assange is "not a journalist," alleging that the WikiLeaks founder "purposely published names he knew to be confidential human sources in warzones."
since when does propaganda need any proof?
"He's the enemy and a Russian puppet" is all some here need to know
Assange being a Russian intelligence asset is not Propaganda. He actively redacted leaks harmful to their interests when he wouldn't do it for anyone else.
 

Syriel

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
11,088
...but Assange isn't even a journalist?
I don't think "but Assange wasn't a real journalist" will be a valid defense if this makes a precedent.
Pretty fucked. That's a lot of indictments.

This will get every 1A lawyer lining up to defend him.

It's not really different than the recent case of SFPD ransacking a stringer's house.

Justice can bring the charges, but most courts are going to have a very dim view of applying those 17 to Assange.

The only exception is if a journalist is actively involved as a co-conspirator in the theft. THEN 1A wouldn't apply, but that would be a very specific set of facts to prove.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
The only exception is if a journalist is actively involved as a co-conspirator in the theft. THEN 1A wouldn't apply, but that would be a very specific set of facts to prove.
I believe this is part of the indictment. Manning came to them trying to leak something, and they actively aided Manning in trying to fish for more. Helping with trying to obtain the information rather than being a passive actor is the argument being made.
He's not a spy. He published documents that every "legitimate" outlet published after him.

There is no journalism registrar. The state does not have a right to hide illegal actions and subvert democracy.
Yes, he is. He's a Russian intelligence asset. He published documents that were obtained as a result of actively cultivating Manning as a source.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
This will have a chilling effect on journalists. Such a bad idea. Assange is a shitty person, no argument there, but this is bigger than him.
Russia_Today_RT_logo_small.png

Russian Espionage is now considered as journalism now?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Every publishers plans when their material is released. No. You don't get to decide who is and isn't a real journalist.
Most publisher don't actively aid their sources in obtaining the information when they receive leaks.

You absolutely do get to decide who isn't a real journalist when they have a pattern of behavior inconsistent with actual journalism.
 

Deleted member 19003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
Hmm. Hopefully they can prune down the charges that might threaten actual journalists and just nail him on the other charges.

I think there is a difference between what wapo and WikiLeaks has done though. Wapo was never directly asking and working with hackers/leakers/whistleblowers to break security. Assange was.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,851
Most publisher don't actively aid their sources in obtaining the information when they receive leaks.

You absolutely do get to decide who isn't a real journalist when they have a pattern of behavior inconsistent with actual journalism.
What is an "actual journalist?" And where does it say that in the constitution?
 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
I don't think we are going to see many 'real' journalists supporting this because Assad was not a 'journalist'.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,851
Hmm. Hopefully they can prune down the charges that might threaten actual journalists and just nail him on the other charges.

I think there is a difference between what wapo and WikiLeaks has done though. Wapo was never directly asking and working with hackers/leakers/whistleblowers to break security. Assange was.
The NY Times worked with Daniel Ellesberg who leaked the Pentagon Papers.

The government wants to prevent journalists from leaking classified documents which embarrass them or expose war crimes.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,961
South Carolina
For all the stans out there...

...for all the defenders of white supremecists, of rapists, of abettors of the intelligence services of a mafia state, and the attacker of free and fair elections in democracies everywhere...

...just trying to hold out just one more day with cold hard revelation breathing down your neck, this one's for you.

 

Puroresu_kid

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,465
Last month, the executive director of the Freedom of the Press Foundation, Trevor Timm, wrote for the Guardian about an earlier Assange indictment and how it showed the Justice Department was trying to reign in press freedom laws in the US:
The larger context surrounding this case is almost as important as the Assange indictment itself. Donald Trump has been furious with leakers and the news organizations that publish them ever since he took office. He complains about it constantly in his Twitter tirades. He has repeatedly directed the justice department to stop leaks, and he even asked former FBI director James Comey if he can put journalists in jail.
You be crazy thinking this is simply about Assange and his so called espionage.​