Carl was my favorite character. He was so badass that even the bad guys liked and respected him.
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‘The Walking Dead’ – Season 8 - Sundays on AMC
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
- Start date
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I think there's a lot of potential. This could be the shakeup that people have been looking for. "Carl is the heart of the series", "Carl represents the future" - well now he doesn't. If the writers play their cards right, this should permanently change Rick (and to a somewhat lesser extent, Michonne, Maggie, Carol, Daryl, and Enid), and thus, permanently change the whole cast dynamic.
I still somewhat feel like I know what to expect from the show in terms of the broad strokes, but killing Carl really does change things (unless there's a time jump and Judith takes his place in the story as a tween/teen).
It's weird. Ever since season 2, people have shat on Chandler Riggs' acting and made Carl out to be one of the most hated characters, but I guess he secretly grew on people over the years?
And no, people cheered when Andrea died, even though her death wasn't planned and was thrown in literally at the last second for pure shock value and was dumb as hell.
Rick was blubbering like a baby just over the thought of chopping Carl's arm off. He should go Lori meltdown 2.0 and destroy the saviors on his own. He has to kill negan. Anything else will be lame. No one likes soft Rick.
I'm praying for the people around when lil ass kicker dies.
I think what bothered me the most was the massive cheat with the Sanctuary escape. I mean how did it happen? OK, so we saw Daryl and Tara breaking the place with the truck (in one of the dumbest actions any character has ever taken) to let the zombies in, and then Rick arrives and sees the place is empty. This was the cliffhanger in the episode before the finale, so it clearly looked they were leading in to the intro in the finale being the Saviors escaping the Sanctuary... but nope, they completely handwave it. Then Dwight says it was Eugene, in what felt was an attempt to take the guilt off Daryl and Tara, but how did Eugene do it? The iPod drone was a good plan, but we clearly saw when Dwight shot it and it fell to the ground near the zombie hoard in the previous episode, so did Eugene pick it up and repair it, or did he build a new one? You know it's just lazy writing when you can't be half-assed to explain that much.
To give the episode some credit, Bear McCreary's score during the Carl scenes was great and effective. Definitely some of his best work in the series.
To give the episode some credit, Bear McCreary's score during the Carl scenes was great and effective. Definitely some of his best work in the series.
I've been watching some reaction videos on Youtube and some people start legit crying when Carl shows off the bite mark. He may not have been the best actor or the most beloved character, but his fans are definitely there, and a lot of them are pretty upset.
There is a lot of reasons why people would be sad with Carl's tragedy. He's an original cast member, we've seen him grow up on the show, his character went from annoying to redeeming and if you have a child...the sadness comes from putting yourself in Ricks shoes.
Not even close to reaching the mid-season finale (just still have to watch 4-8) but I decided to spoil myself on Carl's death. All I want to know is if Lil Grimes lost his virginity to either Enid or someone else. I know he lost it in the graphic novel.
I do feel sad about Carl's death, especially since he is an original cast member and I was interested in seeing what they would or could do with his character moving forward. Are Rick, Carol, and Daryl the only remaining original's now? I can't think of any others.
The problem with the show is they completely eroded all the stakes. Like, it's already hard to have stakes when all civilization has come to an end, but it's even worse when there are no long term communities and there's no concerted effort to nurture grand themes. Every great TV show's got more going on than just the immediate interactions. It's not just franchise fatigue, it's squandering the whole last 8 years. Eventually you wanna get to the point where you've built up the characters so much that everything they do is far more meaningful than when you first met them. Look at Mad Men, or The Sopranos, or Breaking Bad.
Sure, it's not fair to compare TWD to those, but all those shows were on air for less than 8 seasons and they still had a lot more going on with their characters than anything going on in TWD. Like, if you're really gonna strip things back to gunfights and explosions at least really sell it to us! Everyone should be grimy as fuck and the action should be meticulously plotted out and shot. Bullets should really matter, both in how many they have and how dangerous they are. Even if you want to look past all the show's biggest flaws the small stuff is enough to knock it out the running. Like that scene where Darryl and his group are shooting hundreds of bullets at the saviors on the road. They really were able to have a whole conversation with guns shooting off 40 feet away? And it looks real cheap to have so many shots of people shooting full auto with no recoil. Like, this is the focus of the show now and it looks terrible!
Also, they never should have made the zombies so little of a threat. I get the rationale that after a while Rick's crew would have gotten used to handling them, but when you've got such precious little to hold on to you can't lose the big threat the whole show's built around. Now it's all just about Negan and his magic plot armor...
Sure, it's not fair to compare TWD to those, but all those shows were on air for less than 8 seasons and they still had a lot more going on with their characters than anything going on in TWD. Like, if you're really gonna strip things back to gunfights and explosions at least really sell it to us! Everyone should be grimy as fuck and the action should be meticulously plotted out and shot. Bullets should really matter, both in how many they have and how dangerous they are. Even if you want to look past all the show's biggest flaws the small stuff is enough to knock it out the running. Like that scene where Darryl and his group are shooting hundreds of bullets at the saviors on the road. They really were able to have a whole conversation with guns shooting off 40 feet away? And it looks real cheap to have so many shots of people shooting full auto with no recoil. Like, this is the focus of the show now and it looks terrible!
Also, they never should have made the zombies so little of a threat. I get the rationale that after a while Rick's crew would have gotten used to handling them, but when you've got such precious little to hold on to you can't lose the big threat the whole show's built around. Now it's all just about Negan and his magic plot armor...
This season to date has been , for lack of a better word, shit.
The quality of the writing & editing has reached new lows and the plot has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese. I can suspend disbelief and iron over some cracks if a show grips me, but this is just an exercise in abject frustration and numerous wtf moments.
I used to be invested in these characters, but now for many of them they just plain deserve to die and you know what I wouldnt care...even the Carl death is a whatever moment.
The whole first half of the season would have been better done in 2-3 fast moving episodes...sigh...so frustrating
The quality of the writing & editing has reached new lows and the plot has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese. I can suspend disbelief and iron over some cracks if a show grips me, but this is just an exercise in abject frustration and numerous wtf moments.
I used to be invested in these characters, but now for many of them they just plain deserve to die and you know what I wouldnt care...even the Carl death is a whatever moment.
The whole first half of the season would have been better done in 2-3 fast moving episodes...sigh...so frustrating
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So as a huge fan of Negan in the comic, I really think JDM was miscast. But even then the writing for him has been poor. The whole way he rules the saviors and chooses his wives is different in the comics, especially with the wives. In the comic the women are actually given a choice, and its that choice to be with Negan for comforts is done of their own free will. No threatening to kill other people, Dwight got his face burned because Sherry still wanted to be with him, and when they hooked up the burning was inflicted on Dwight as a punishment for Sherry. The whole idea is that Negan wants Dwight to resent Sherry. Where in the show Negan is basically raping these women, telling them to be his wife or their loved ones will be punished. There is also no burning of a man in the oven to make an example of either. Nor does he burn their beds to make a point. He actually likes to be reasonable in his own twisted weird way. In fact, he just jerks rick around with Carl when he returns him, telling him "Wait till you see what I did to your boy" prompting Rick to attack him, in which Negan actually apologizes for wording it poorly, as the next words out of his mouth were "absolutely nothing!" He even shows that he sort of likes Rick in some ways too.
The physical portrayal is way different too. First off, he is young and gigantic, he towers over rick and no one would ever want to cross him. He also has a much more boyish demeanor to him. He's almost sort of like a frat boy. He likes to have his outbursts and brag and sort of bully people and then be real serious. In the show he is just... drawly and goofy.
I've attached a few pics of the comic that are non spoilery to give you a better idea of how he is in them compared to the show. Note his rapid change in tone and facial exprssions.
And my personal favorite when he declares war. Frat boy mode in full effect here.
And a comparison of the same scene. Great in comic, fucking terrible in the show.
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Watched this last night. I had no idea that was supposed to be a walker bite. Just figured it was a wound from one of the explosions.
Gotta say, that was a pretty boring episode.
Edit: Aaaaah, I see, he was bitten the episode before. That makes sense, I wondered at the time how he made it out of that unhurt. Also explains the scenes with the letters and also there was one with his face bathed in sweat.
Gotta say, that was a pretty boring episode.
Edit: Aaaaah, I see, he was bitten the episode before. That makes sense, I wondered at the time how he made it out of that unhurt. Also explains the scenes with the letters and also there was one with his face bathed in sweat.
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Still amazed they they essentially killed the macguffin of the show. Honestly, not even sure if it's great or terrible for the franchise. Comic Carl just became that much more awesome, though.
Finally got around to seeing the latest episode.
I had gathered from some of the headlines on websites that Carl was getting killed, so I had it somewhat spoiled. That was okay.
But then, as I was watching, I got the impression that the show was gonna pull one of those "we have been showing you stuff out of sequence" moves. Carl hasn't been much of a presence for the past eight episodes - he was mostly off chasing after this random guy (so stupid) - so for a while I thought that Carl's death was gonna be the trigger of this whole plan Rick has to take down the Saviors.
Turned out I was wrong. It was just some dumb, lazy writing for Carl.
I still don't feel like I'm watching the show just to see it through to the end (that's how I felt after two seasons of The Strain), but it's getting there.
I'm still not over Glen's death. And I'm getting tired of Negan. Hopefully they kill him off cause I have no desire to keep him around.
I had gathered from some of the headlines on websites that Carl was getting killed, so I had it somewhat spoiled. That was okay.
But then, as I was watching, I got the impression that the show was gonna pull one of those "we have been showing you stuff out of sequence" moves. Carl hasn't been much of a presence for the past eight episodes - he was mostly off chasing after this random guy (so stupid) - so for a while I thought that Carl's death was gonna be the trigger of this whole plan Rick has to take down the Saviors.
Turned out I was wrong. It was just some dumb, lazy writing for Carl.
I still don't feel like I'm watching the show just to see it through to the end (that's how I felt after two seasons of The Strain), but it's getting there.
I'm still not over Glen's death. And I'm getting tired of Negan. Hopefully they kill him off cause I have no desire to keep him around.
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I hope Rick doesn't go all crazy like he did after Lori. With Lori he never got to say goodbye or anything before she died. Hell they weren't even really getting along after what happened at the end of Season 2.
With Carl, Rick is going to get to talk with him and say goodbye before he dies. And in this episode we saw Carl telling Rick that, "We're fighting so it's all of us working together for something more than just killing other people". I'd like to think he's going to have more to say to Rick about that as he's dying. Not to mention the letter he wrote to his dad that Rick will probably read.
So I hope Rick will actually listen to what his dying son has to say. And somewhat tries to do what he would want.
You should definitely spoiler tag that comic spoiler.
Indeed. I said before I understand the reasons as to why Gimple wrote it the way he did, but damn, did he write it poorly. It would have made so much more sense for Morgan to retain his "all life is precious" outlook and die with that having influenced Rick. It feels so lazily written that they suddenly gave Carl this attitude since the start of season 8, only because they wanted him killed off instead. Which is a damn shame because:
Comic spoilers that potentially spoil the show:
Carl's character gets so much better after the time skip and he has a relationship with Negan afterwards that makes sense.
So much potential for these characters lost. Carl could have been so much more, and Morgan could have gone out in a proper way for his character, rather than having him regress back to his "super badass I kill everybody" state which is about as boring to watch as the rest of the characters in the show that are of the same dynamic. Even worse that he's going over to Fear the Walking Dead now. The character is basically not going to get in any closure for those who only care about the main show and Morgan's role as a character in the show.
Man, this show just sucks ass. It could be so much more.
The problem seems to be they think killing a main character will help bring people back and re-establish that "no one is safe" but to me they made the worst choice. Even though Carl was not played by a great actor, or given great storylines, to some fans he was always considered the secret heart of the show. Hope for the future, what Rick fights against his soul to protect, etc... Killing off Carl now just feels cheap as hell.
This show has the highest highs and lowest lows and I've been pissed at it before, but this is an all time low as far as I'm concerned. Still bummed!
Thinking about the future with Negan minus Carl. To the show's credit, they've managed to keep their supporting villain cast, and their relationship to the survivors, interesting enough.
But if the survivors gain the upper hand, and they keep Negan alive for what would be a very inexplicable reason, who would be forming a relationship with him on the TV show?
Carl? The "immune", "bitten by dentures", and "Gimple/Riggs' Dad Hype Stunt" theories are technically still alive, but let's call this a no.
Morgan? No, he's gone after this season.
Father Gabriel? They already did that in that trailer episode. So no.
Eugene? As a resident of the Sanctuary, it's been done already. Plus they've got enough there between Eugene and Dwight. And after Abraham? No.
Rosita? After Sasha, all of a sudden she wants to hang with Negan? No.
Tara, after Denise? No.
Daryl, after dog food and Easy Street? No.
Enid, after what just happened? No.
Aaron, after Eric? No.
Ezekiel, after the Kingdom fighters getting shot up to kingdom come? No.
Carol? Michonne? Ew, and No.
Jadis? She gets to do one sculpture, and that's it. No.
Anyone from Oceanside? After taking all their men? No.
Yet we still have:
Siddiq? Returning a kindness shown by Carl to Negan? Ugh, but they could try it.
Gregory? Already groveled to the Saviors, would be expected but annoying.
Rick? after being shaken to the core so many times? He shouldn't, but they'll probably try anyway.
One of the surviving Saviors, and Negan's lieutenants? Plausible, but maybe a bit weak compared to interacting with the survivors.
Jesus? Intolerant of Gregory, not 100% in sync with Maggie. Barring his leaving the show in the back half of the season, this one could be it.
Anything I'm missing/forgetting?
But if the survivors gain the upper hand, and they keep Negan alive for what would be a very inexplicable reason, who would be forming a relationship with him on the TV show?
Carl? The "immune", "bitten by dentures", and "Gimple/Riggs' Dad Hype Stunt" theories are technically still alive, but let's call this a no.
Morgan? No, he's gone after this season.
Father Gabriel? They already did that in that trailer episode. So no.
Eugene? As a resident of the Sanctuary, it's been done already. Plus they've got enough there between Eugene and Dwight. And after Abraham? No.
Rosita? After Sasha, all of a sudden she wants to hang with Negan? No.
Tara, after Denise? No.
Daryl, after dog food and Easy Street? No.
Enid, after what just happened? No.
Aaron, after Eric? No.
Ezekiel, after the Kingdom fighters getting shot up to kingdom come? No.
Carol? Michonne? Ew, and No.
Jadis? She gets to do one sculpture, and that's it. No.
Anyone from Oceanside? After taking all their men? No.
Yet we still have:
Siddiq? Returning a kindness shown by Carl to Negan? Ugh, but they could try it.
Gregory? Already groveled to the Saviors, would be expected but annoying.
Rick? after being shaken to the core so many times? He shouldn't, but they'll probably try anyway.
One of the surviving Saviors, and Negan's lieutenants? Plausible, but maybe a bit weak compared to interacting with the survivors.
Jesus? Intolerant of Gregory, not 100% in sync with Maggie. Barring his leaving the show in the back half of the season, this one could be it.
Anything I'm missing/forgetting?
My wife and I watched the mid-season finale last night. Her first comment to me was, "when did Coral go soft?" I have to agree, it seems like a real departure for the character. Also, the editing doesn't covey the proper sense of time so it's difficult to follow the sequence of events.
Prior to this season, I was 100% on board with this show. What happened?
Prior to this season, I was 100% on board with this show. What happened?
Characters have total personality changes on a dime in the name of drama. Rosita's complete 180 made me laugh.
I doubt it since Carl wrote that letter to his dad earlier in the episode. He also looked sweaty like the fever was really starting to kick in. Wouldn't make much sense for a
Whisperer to bite someone either. They always had hidden weapons in the comic if I'm not mistaken.
In all honesty I'm suprised Carl lasted this long on the show.
Kid characters are always a pain as they age too fast vs. the amount of time lapse in the show. I'm pretty sure that's what happened with Walt in Lost. They built him up the first season and then realized they'd be fucked with the actor aging after they realized it was a hit and they'd get several seasons.
In any case, I've gotten a bit bored with the comics, so I wouldn't mind seeing the show go in another direction after the all out war arc. I'm pretty easy to please with TV and movies and have enjoyed every season of TWD and Fear TWD so I don't have the reservations others do. I'm pretty good and shutting my brain off and just being mindlessly entertained and escaping from our shitty reality personally.
Kid characters are always a pain as they age too fast vs. the amount of time lapse in the show. I'm pretty sure that's what happened with Walt in Lost. They built him up the first season and then realized they'd be fucked with the actor aging after they realized it was a hit and they'd get several seasons.
In any case, I've gotten a bit bored with the comics, so I wouldn't mind seeing the show go in another direction after the all out war arc. I'm pretty easy to please with TV and movies and have enjoyed every season of TWD and Fear TWD so I don't have the reservations others do. I'm pretty good and shutting my brain off and just being mindlessly entertained and escaping from our shitty reality personally.
Nope.
Also it's too early
There will be a time jump at the end of the next half to rebuild.
Caught up last night/this morning, by watching the last three episodes. It was...okay. This whole season has lacked depth, and had characters being in the right places at the right time, and jumping to conclusions. Hopefully there'll be more dialogue, narrative and whatnot, and less fighting, in part 2. They say it's very different. But on the other hand, I do want Negan's act to end, because enough is enough and it's getting boring and annoying.
I'm surprised they'd kill Carl off, but it is what it is I guess. It'll help ratings for a bit, I guess.
I'm surprised they'd kill Carl off, but it is what it is I guess. It'll help ratings for a bit, I guess.
Watched episodes 7&8 after only watching the first 2, and yeah felt like I missed nothing. Also these episodes were terrible, yikes.
I managed to enjoy even the bad seasons in some parts and episodes, but what the hell happened with S8? It's like they completely gave up on everything - writing, acting, directing. I might even stop watching TWD, I dunno.
A real shame.
I managed to enjoy even the bad seasons in some parts and episodes, but what the hell happened with S8? It's like they completely gave up on everything - writing, acting, directing. I might even stop watching TWD, I dunno.
A real shame.
Nope.
I don't get it, didn't Chandler want off the show to focus on college, or was that untrue? If Chandler wanted to stay on the show and Carl still had arcs left from the comics then what the heck is Gimple doing?
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It seems like Chandler was planning to try and juggle college and the show at the same time.
Like, characters aren't always killed off just because an actor wants to leave the show. It seems as though the writers thought this was the most compelling way forward for the series.
It's hard to say exactly what went on behind the scenes - if anything. All the way back in season 6 the show seemed to be setting up
Morgan as the one to die, thus compelling Rick to let Negan live at the end of All Out War
Carl's Final Scene Reaction Compilation
Not as bad as the Glenn equivalent video, but still pretty sad.
Not as bad as the Glenn equivalent video, but still pretty sad.
He's an absolutely terrible actor and his scenes were awful. I couldn't be happier that he's gone. He should have taken more acting classes and maybe then he'd still be around.
Can't disagree with this as mean as it is to say about the kid. He was an incredibly poor actor. Especially when they were trying to do the super emotional scenes. I've always thought that he must have had some good family connections to have been given this role.
It's insane when you watch Game of Thrones and the child actors are probably better than nearly every adult actor on this show who have probably trained for years and years at specialized colleges. The child actors on TWD are all awful.
Completely nonsense post.
They didn't fire him in season 8 because they thought he was a bad actor. Stop.
We weren't really brehs. Maybe spooky trash lady will fuck one of those wire cat sculptures.With Carl dead, I think it's safe to say we're not getting this scene anymore
RIP EYE SOCKET SEX
Speculation on the show based on comics, and why I think Carl had to die, or at least ONE of the reasons:
I always wondered how the show will keep Negan alive. In the comic it's easier to buy things but on the show it would make ZERO sense pre-Carl death to NOT kill off Negan. He has just done too much to these characters and it just wouldn't make sense. Live action is a different ball game and the emotional stakes are way too high to let him live. People speculated that Morgan dying would be the trigger but I feel like even that wouldn't be enough really to change Rick's mind. But Carl dying changes the game. Like Andy Lincoln says, this is the biggest death the show has ever had and possibly will have other than Rick dying (series finale maybe? if at all...) so the impact of this could be lasting and real and I could see it being the thing that changes Rick given the last few convos between him and Carl.
I also think it helps kick the series into a new direction rather than relying on status quo. As long as you keep the Rick/Carl tandem alive, no matter what happens on the show you KNOW they will be fine and it will end with the passing of the torch to Carl and that's the show. But now with Carl out of the equation it kind of forces the show on a different trajectory that I think is pretty interesting. I still expect things to follow the comic for most story beats going forward but this will force them to try new things. I also think it will be one of the propellers of the show's end game. There isn't a character more major you can kill off so what else is there? I think from an overarching plot perspective things will inevitably begin moving forward.
Or the aftermath will be poorly executed and it'll be the exact identical show, just without Carl. And his loss won't be felt outside of the occasional thought by Rick.
I also think it helps kick the series into a new direction rather than relying on status quo. As long as you keep the Rick/Carl tandem alive, no matter what happens on the show you KNOW they will be fine and it will end with the passing of the torch to Carl and that's the show. But now with Carl out of the equation it kind of forces the show on a different trajectory that I think is pretty interesting. I still expect things to follow the comic for most story beats going forward but this will force them to try new things. I also think it will be one of the propellers of the show's end game. There isn't a character more major you can kill off so what else is there? I think from an overarching plot perspective things will inevitably begin moving forward.
Or the aftermath will be poorly executed and it'll be the exact identical show, just without Carl. And his loss won't be felt outside of the occasional thought by Rick.
So why did they fire him then?
It's also not exactly a secret he's a bad actor.