Sorry, the character has not been officially revealed yet so I'm relying on trailer poses. Here's a better image of the heel
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Sorry, the character has not been officially revealed yet so I'm relying on trailer poses. Here's a better image of the heel
Sorry, the character has not been officially revealed yet so I'm relying on trailer poses. Here's a better image of the heel
shit like this legit makes my feet hurt.
Oh wow . .. . I " like" that part "One commenter said, "It's a nuisance that you want to force your own disgust for sex onto children and also onto society." Lawyer Yamato Satō agreed with that sentiment and expressed concern about excessive censorship." Seriously
Regarding the new Arms character, here's the trailer itself if you want to see her a bit better. (Couldn't find an actual one on Nintendo's channel so using a different one)
Yeah pretty much, but what surprises me is the huge !!!! amount of questionable content in shounen ai and yaoi mangas, anime, it's like they use the same methods as their male/female counterpart even though it's done by woman for woman.
You wouldn't believe the amount of rape in these and the "it's ok because he loves me". Like 90% of all mangas have these kinds of scenarios it pretty much turned me away from that fandom.
Tbh if you want good M/M content you have to turn to fanmade content most of the time because official yaoi manga are usually crap lol
Top 10 posters on this thread are men. Hard to have an equal treatment if we let this thread going kind of "wild" even with warnings.
Yeah, M/M tends to rely hard on established manga tropes like Seme and Uke because clearly, even in homosexual relationships, we need heteronormativity. Not to mention how very...rapey some Yaoi can be. And let's not forget Yaoi Hands.
Are you sure they are all men? Doesn't look like it to me. I get the thrust of your point, but I'm not sure arguing against what someone does or doesn't put as their gender status is that useful though. Often people deliberately don't add that information for understandable reasons.
Are you sure they are all men? Doesn't look like it to me. I get the thrust of your point, but I'm not sure arguing against what someone does or doesn't put as their gender status is that useful though.
Come on ! 2 Female for 8 men.
2 women, 6 men, and 2 unknowns. Still lopsided but not as what you think.
Also, HOLY CRAP! I'M THE LARGEST POSTER ON THIS THREAD!?! ...Actually, that makes sense...
Want to make a guess about those who don't put their status there?
Disregarding all content people post in a discussion to focus on the status they do or don't put there is a bit meaningless TBH- there's plenty of diversity amongst opinions here. If the OP deliberately stated 'majority female opinions please' of course I'd keep out.
I remember reading a really cute manga years ago about a single dad who ends up hooking up with another guy :') but otherwise they're mostly trash lol
That make sense you beeing the largest poster on this thread ?
Okay, if you want, in terms of messages and genre, men are way more involved. That's a problem :)
It's like if you had someone in the street asking women to talk about a subject about them, and men around speaking almost everytime.
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Hey, I get the thrust of your point, I really do, if you'd have led with that rather than the clearly wrong 'all Male posters' I'd not have questioned it!
I like these discussions because I want to be able to talk to my daughter about them. That's my 'involvement', but sure, more female voices would be great to hear, I think we can agree there :)
Hmm. I do think the longer, deeper posts in this thread are often by female posters if we go by wordcount :) I particularly liked Dr Monkey's stuff way, way back.
My point is that men still the most involved for a question asked for women that's it.
Yeah off course. But it could be fun to have a new type of thread where people has to wait until someone post and interacting only when someone finished to answer back for example.
I don't think this is a thread that means to ask questions to women, but to inform men about how women feel about this.
Not really sure how that differs from a normal thread, sorry, can you expand on that? Maybe you should try it, as long as you set out what you're aiming for in the OP?
I have a difficult time thinking that I have much to add to this thread, and well, I just wanted to say that I appreciate it and I've read most of it, mostly just reading it every now and then for the last days.
I'm someone that enjoys fan-service, won't lie about it, but I do understand the problems that come from how women are portrayed in general when it comes to basically any kind of media, in the past I was in the "Just don't buy the game and shut up" camp, which I now know was insensitive and was basically shutting down any kind of discussion that could have been had, also alienating an entire gender from enjoying videogames.
So, keep the fight going, I'd like to consider myself an ally nowadays in the search of better representation for women(and even men) in the industry. As someone that is part of this and other videogame/anime communities, I know how rough it gets to even try to have this discussion at all, I'd like to think that it will get better with time.
I'm someone that enjoys fan-service, won't lie about it, but I do understand the problems that come from how women are portrayed in general when it comes to basically any kind of media, in the past I was in the "Just don't buy the game and shut up" camp, which I now know was insensitive and was basically shutting down any kind of discussion that could have been had, also alienating an entire gender from enjoying videogames.
So, keep the fight going, I'd like to consider myself an ally nowadays in the search of better representation for women(and even men) in the industry. As someone that is part of this and other videogame/anime communities, I know how rough it gets to even try to have this discussion at all, I'd like to think that it will get better with time.
Hahah, you know youself at least.
When you ask something, you want be able to listen to everyone like really, or dont ask anything at all if it's turns out in a way that men still the most involved people here. We should have a thread where we one by one, we wait until someone has finished to answer to another dude.
The main subject is a question asked ta concerns women.
Is the issue here that you read 'why women criticise sexualised character designs' as a question/invitation for mainly women to do precisely that in the thread, whereas others are reading it as 'that will be the content of the OP, anyone can respond to anything in the (lengthy) OP'?
I think the latter is kinda standard practice on a forum, it kinda includes the former by its nature. When the awesome OP includes so many examples of so many games regularly discussed here, it's no wonder it gets a more general response than the more focused one you were looking for. Even then, I think this thread has been great, the OP goes a long way towards generating a good discussion when it's so well argued.
It sounds like you are looking for a slower, more regimented post/response structure, which is going to be tough with subject matter as wide-ranging as 'a huge portion of female character design'. No wonder this thread is so long, there's no shortage of material.
Apart from on some of the characters :D
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Yeah it's good that this thread provides some nice answers from the community.
Aloy isn't in the mlilitary and this isn't real life. It's hard to think of a popular franchise that doesn't have romance within it. Aragorn had two women swooning for him in the midst of the Last Great War for Middle Earth and Han Solo cared primarily about Leia in the middle of a Galactic War. Harry and Ginny. Finn and Rey. Bastilla and Revan. Geralt and Yennefer. Geralt and Triss. Geralt and Shani. Geralt and a random strumpet. Apollo and Starbuck. Anders and Starbuck. #2's and Starbuck. And, Commander Shepard and pretty much anything that moves.
You get the point.
Yeah I'm like, how in the fuck I'm so high when so many pages I haven't post anything because y'all talking about animes and mangas I don't know shit lol
Damn you Era 1.3 and your wall of shame!
From a neighbouring shrubbery emerged a nurse, leading by the hand a small boy, who howled as he went. An anxious-looking little girl trotted at her heels.
"What's the matter?" asked the Director.
The nurse shrugged her shoulders. "Nothing much," she answered. "It's just that this little boy seems rather reluctant to join in the ordinary erotic play. I'd noticed it once or twice before. And now again to-day. He started yelling just now …"
"Honestly," put in the anxious-looking little girl, "I didn't mean to hurt him or anything. Honestly."
"Of course you didn't, dear," said the nurse reassuringly. "And so," she went on, turning back to the Director, "I'm taking him in to see the Assistant Superintendent of Psychology. Just to see if anything's at all abnormal."
"Quite right," said the Director. "Take him in. You stay here, little girl," he added, as the nurse moved away with her still howling charge. "What's your name?"
"Polly Trotsky."
"And a very good name too," said the Director. "Run away now and see if you can find some other little boy to play with."
The child scampered off into the bushes and was lost to sight.
"Exquisite little creature!" said the Director, looking after her. Then, turning to his students, "What I'm going to tell you now," he said, "may sound incredible. But then, when you're not accustomed to history, most facts about the past do sound incredible."
He let out the amazing truth. For a very long period before the time of Our Ford, and even for some generations afterwards, erotic play between children had been regarded as abnormal (there was a roar of laughter); and not only abnormal, actually immoral (no!): and had therefore been rigorously suppressed.
A look of astonished incredulity appeared on the faces of his listeners. Poor little kids not allowed to amuse themselves? They could not believe it.
"Even adolescents," the D.H.C. was saying, "even adolescents like yourselves …"
"Not possible!"
"Barring a little surreptitious auto-erotism and homosexuality–absolutely nothing."
"Nothing?"
"In most cases, till they were over twenty years old."
"Twenty years old?" echoed the students in a chorus of loud disbelief.
"Twenty," the Director repeated. "I told you that you'd find it incredible."
"But what happened?" they asked. "What were the results?"
"The results were terrible."
- Brave New World, Aldous Huxley, 1932
Yea, a few years back I would have unfortunately been very dismissive of this topic. Also man, I can't imagine reading through this whole thread now, you'd be running into the same arguments over and over.
At this point, I dunno what it is, but I find the discussion of representation far more interesting than most other stuff surrounding games. I miss the thread on broader representation issues, that OP put quite a bit of work in
https://www.resetera.com/threads/we...nd-representation-issues-update-read-op.8835/
I guess, I do worry that I'm just loitering in here because I like the topic.
Just saying, assigning male as a default gender to anonymous users on the internet is not a great trend.
You could have sold your point far better if you didn't start off with disingenuous posts.
You've gotta post a few more times so I can get knocked out of second place on this leaderboard of male shame.
So what do you propose gets done about this? I don't see ANY questionable posts in this topic that were not moderated properly, and I also don't see anything stifling discussion here
I still can't believe I'm the #1 by that much. Not to mention this thread is around 37% of my posts on this website.
So you're wondering where all the women are at?
Well there are some here and the OP was started by a woman. Keep in mind that this is probably still a forum where males are a larger percantage and women probably still feel they have reason to be more reserved about what they post and where. And lastly it is mostly males who could use some insight into their perspective and be more mindful of all the objectification they have to put up with. I don't think the OP has to do as much convincing of other women on this forum. So in that sense, the question is one that has to concern men as well. If we're the ones being pandered to with objectification, why shouldn't they try to involve us in making things better?
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Isn't the point of the thread to get men to understand the views women, not to suggest that all women agree with the OP.
That said, it's too bad that a sizeable amount of the men who post here do so to whine about losing their anime titties :^)
Thank you for writing this. It does make it less discouraging to keep the discussion going when you know it actually has an effect, even if it's on a small scale. :)
It's hard to say what can be done. But making the forum more inviting and less alienating to women, in general, would help with this a lot. Let's remember that post where I listed all the women who don't even want to approach the thread because they find it too frustrating to even talk about these things. I'm not sure what can be done to solve this, but I do what I can.
Oh god how the hell am I so high up on that list? Top posters was a mistake. *sob*
Why the hell would you want to willingly subject yourself to this unless you're a masochist or really, really like typing lots of words into the void for what might wind up being no reason at all like me? :^)
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Which is strange, because like, they're pretty easy to find and even with major social upheaval wouldn't get much harder to find. Heck, you don't even need to look for them at this point. You get them just trying to google the name of most historical figures now thanks to the Fate franchise~
The pushback even from writing in relative defense of something that might otherwise be completely discounted, because you're so unreasonable as to suggest that maybe some elements of its art design might rightfully bother people and be counter to its actual narrative is kind of telling. God forbid you consider something your GOTY but also have some bad things to say about it.
Why the hell would you want to willingly subject yourself to this unless you're a masochist or really, really like typing lots of words into the void for what might wind up being no reason at all like me? :^)
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It's a good question to ask when you can make it stick, because actually giving that some deep, heavy, introspective thought is usually the first step to turning around and realizing where the criticism is coming from and why.
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The hills people choose to die on baffle me. The first question I'd like to ask anyone arguing against the points made in the OP and their various extensions would be : Why does this matter so much to you?
I sure know why it matters to me.
I sure know why it matters to me.
She's floating the entire time so I don't see how the heels are a problem in the battle in the question of practicality.
I don't have an issue with the spiked high heels but they look ridiculous.
Seriously, though, the whole "female character therefore heels" thing is just so...so...sheltered?
It's definitely annoying to see in general. Fortunately ARMS is pretty diverse as far as the designs for the female characters go.
So, um, I might be obsessed with Xenoblade Chronicles 2...that thread I was thinking about making? I'm like on page 10 right now. I might have a problem...
Also, to make this bump actually topical...
The new ARMS character. I'll admit to not wearing heels too often but I'm like 99% sure that would not be good fighting shoes...
Arms is a game where people can sprout extendable spring arms among many other crazy things, including hair with boxing gloves, a lizard man, and living DNA so I don't imagine why footwear would be your first question when it comes to a matter of whether or not it would be practical IRL.
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