Yeah, a lot of people were taken to the hospital and evaluated, but apparently only 12 weren't discharged as of ~6 PMOne of CNN's headlines on their site is stating "Fire chief says over 100 people transported to hospital and three are dead after Amtrak train jumped tracks".
Oh, okay. That's good to know.Yeah, a lot of people were taken to the hospital and evaluated, but apparently only 12 weren't discharged as of ~6 PM
What the fuck.Going at 80mph in a 30mph zone.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...iled-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/
Going at 80mph in a 30mph zone.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...iled-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/
Going at 80mph in a 30mph zone.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...iled-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/
"Part of that retrofit was to include "positive train control" systems that can prevent dangerous situations such as excessive speed.
The 14.5-mile corridor is now equipped for positive train control equipment, but the train controls aren't operating yet in that area, said Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson. An Amtrak spokesman said the equipment was still being tested."
Amtrak about to pay out the ass.
Welp"Part of that retrofit was to include "positive train control" systems that can prevent dangerous situations such as excessive speed.
The 14.5-mile corridor is now equipped for positive train control equipment, but the train controls aren't operating yet in that area, said Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson. An Amtrak spokesman said the equipment was still being tested."
Amtrak about to pay out the ass.
I don't live in the US anymore, but if I did I would never ever set foot on an Amtrak train again.
When I was a kid, I traveled on an Amtrak train with my mother (I can't remember the exact line but someone between Alabama and Tennessee I believe- I was like 7) and about halfway through the trip
the entire train jostled for a bit and then came to an abrupt stop. It wasn't bad at all but definitely surprised all the passengers.
I decided I was going to run to the front and see if I could find out what happened from the conductor or whatever.
Turns out we had plowed completely through a double wide mobile home that had been stuck on the tracks at a crossing.
Could have easily been a worse scenario I guess as it ended up just delaying us for several hours as they cleared the tracks, but it shook me even as a kid.
So the conductor fucked up.
I wonder if the conductor was relying on that shit instead of paying attention.
This kind of logic is baffling to me. Trains are exponentially safer than cars...
If engine operators were told that track uses positive train control then it's veeery likely that they didn't pay as much attention to track speed limits as they should have because they trusted there to be automated system in place to warn them, and to automatically slowdown.
That's definitely a possibility at this point. But would they know their trains didn't have PTC active yet, or were they simply informed the new line had PTC capabilities?
The mayor is not an expert on railroad safety and claimed the bypass "wasn't needed" and was a "waste of taxpayer money". His arguments when he sued included things such as "it will increase the feelings of isolation of citizens when a train goes by", and "threatens to destroy progress on the neighborhood". He appealed to the "strong sense of community" and "property values" in order to oppose the railroad.The Lakewood mayor did sue in 2013 to stop this from happening though, even though his reason wasn't the same. So he still gets credit for having safety concerns that apparently no one else did.
You are thinking of the train crash in Santiago, but yes, it's similar. Both trains were going at higher speed than the maxium and derailed on a curve.
To drive the point home: Last year 37,461 people died in accidents involving cars in the United States. The worst railroad accident in American railroad history could repeat itself, every single day of every single week for a whole year and less people would die.This kind of logic is baffling to me. Trains are exponentially safer than cars...
Yep. I loved rail in Europe and Japan.America is never going to develop any semblance of modern passenger rail infrastructure at this rate. We're generations behind the rest of the world and events like this will only lead to a decrease in railroad funding as people will misread the data and see his as normal rather than a rare and unfortunate accident. Such a tragedy, especially when effective passenger rail would save so much money/lives over cars
Amtrak derailment: Liabilities capped at $200 million due to 1997 law
Ordinarily, it's difficult to forecast the total money damages for one person in any injury case. Each individual injury case requires complex calculations incorporating medical bills, future care, and valuations of past and future pain and loss of ability. In the case of a tragic mass accident with multiple deaths and life-changing injuries, it's even more difficult.
In the case of a train derailment like this, however, the math has been simplified by statute. It's worth no more than $200 million. Total. For everyone.
The 1997 Amtrak Reform and Accountability Act sets a $200 million maximum limit for the "allowable awards to all rail passengers, against all defendants, for all claims, including claims for punitive damages, arising from a single accident..." That means that no matter how many are killed, no matter how many are injured, and no matter how serious the injuries are, the maximum dollar amount all the plaintiffs combined can recover from all the defendants combined is $200 million.
That's a lot of money. It can be an insufficient amount of money in the case of derailment disasters. This is according to judges who call the process of taking from one victim and giving to another an impossible decision and a "Sophie's Choice" on a mass scale.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ities-capped-200-million-due-1997-law-n831071Congress passes legislation like this in order to protect particular industries. Critics say these laws shield an industry from accountability, fail to realistically forecast damages, and ignore the reality of inflation. There is historical evidence that judges, presidents, and even Congress itself all agree with the law's critics.
America is never going to develop any semblance of modern passenger rail infrastructure at this rate. We're generations behind the rest of the world and events like this will only lead to a decrease in railroad funding as people will misread the data and see this as normal rather than a rare and unfortunate accident. Such a tragedy, especially when effective passenger rail would save so much money/lives over cars
Intercity rail in the USA, such as Amtrak is probably the worst return on investment you can actually perform in the USA especially for the point you are bringing up. The vast majority of auto deaths are intracity (commuting, grocery shopping) not transiting between cities. Also our private freight rail system is exceptionally efficient and passenger trains just gum up the works.America is never going to develop any semblance of modern passenger rail infrastructure at this rate. We're generations behind the rest of the world and events like this will only lead to a decrease in railroad funding as people will misread the data and see his as normal rather than a rare and unfortunate accident. Such a tragedy, especially when effective passenger rail would save so much money/lives over cars
Going at 80mph in a 30mph zone.
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattl...iled-in-washington-has-speed-limit-of-30-mph/
Somebody already said that statistics show the chance to die on a train is much lower then dying in a car accident.
WASHINGTON (Nov. 14, 2017) — The National Transportation Safety Board determined Tuesday the April 3, 2016, derailment of Amtrak train 89 near Chester, Pennsylvania was caused by deficient safety management across many levels of Amtrak and the resultant lack of a clear, consistent and accepted vision for safety.
"Amtrak's safety culture is failing, and is primed to fail again, until and unless Amtrak changes the way it practices safety management," said NTSB Chairman Robert L. Sumwalt. "Investigators found a labor-management relationship so adversarial that safety programs became contentious at the bargaining table, with the unions ultimately refusing to participate."
The NTSB also noted the Federal Railroad Administration's failure to require redundant signal protection, such as shunting, for maintenance-of-way work crews contributed to this accident.
As a result of this investigation, the NTSB issued 14 safety recommendations including nine to Amtrak.
The NTSB also made two safety recommendations to the Federal Railroad Administration, and three safety recommendations were issued to the Brotherhood of Maintenance of Way Employees Division, American Railway and Airway Supervisors Association, Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen, and Brotherhood of Railroad Signalmen.
Intercity rail in the USA, such as Amtrak is probably the worst return on investment you can actually perform in the USA especially for the point you are bringing up. The vast majority of auto deaths are intracity (commuting, grocery shopping) not transiting between cities. Also our private freight rail system is exceptionally efficient and passenger trains just gum up the works.
Only the NE and Florida (odd, but trust me) have the local transit infrastructure and desnity to support intercity rail. And the NE is so terrible that buses provide better service. CAHSR is pretty much doomed to fail and was perfectly serviced by Airlines...
We would be better served in the NE with some kind of privatized service.
But have you ever done the NYC/Boston Segment?
Because the safety feature isn't required for operation.Why on earth would you put the train into service before the major safety feature to prevent accidents like this was tested and installed? Amtrak deserves a hell of a lawsuit over this one.
If that's the reason then they should absolutely be harshly punished. PTC is not an excuse to not be monitoring your surroundings and still controlling the train, they utterly failed at their job regardless of what they were told if that winds up being the case.I won't be shocked if they were told in briefing about new track that it uses PTC, but either way they will be thrown under the bus even if some higher ups also carried responsibility.
Why on earth would you put the train into service before the major safety feature to prevent accidents like this was tested and installed? Amtrak deserves a hell of a lawsuit over this one.
Wow just saw that update. Profit over safety every time it seems like. Corporations have GOT to be better regulated in this country. Its insane the state we have gotten too.
I just heard on the radio that Amtrak can only be partially liable. Not really sure why, maybe because it's a quasi government business."Part of that retrofit was to include "positive train control" systems that can prevent dangerous situations such as excessive speed.
The 14.5-mile corridor is now equipped for positive train control equipment, but the train controls aren't operating yet in that area, said Amtrak CEO Richard Anderson. An Amtrak spokesman said the equipment was still being tested."
Amtrak about to pay out the ass.
I just heard on the radio that Amtrak can only be partially liable. Not really sure why, maybe because it's a quasi government business.
Yeah they gon get to that $200 million cap.
This kind of logic is baffling to me. Trains are exponentially safer than cars...
I've done the NYC-Boston and the Boston-Portland segments multiple times. What's the issue?
2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amagasaki_rail_crash - it's what led the Japanese rail industry to put PTC on all tracks.I'm not afraid of trains or anything haha.
I live in Japan and am posting from a subway as we speak.
Amtrak has just shown they have kind of poor standards and have shown incidents of negligence in the past.
Cars are of course more dangerous when you look at the statistics. However, Amtrak is pretty terrible compared to other leaders in the industry.
I don't think Japan has had a fatality from a train accident since like the 70s or something? That's how it should be.
I've done the NYC-Boston and the Boston-Portland segments multiple times. What's the issue?
I've done the NYC-Boston and the Boston-Portland segments multiple times. What's the issue?
2005 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amagasaki_rail_crash - it's what led the Japanese rail industry to put PTC on all tracks.
The Wikipedia page lists similar accidents, and the only ones occurring after 2005 are in Spain and the US.
No it is correct. Previous casualty incident was in 1963. (IIRC)Damn I somehow completely forgot about this one. It actually happened right before I first came to Japan and
my relatives were all worried about it so not sure how I forgot.
I think the previous statistic I said about there not being fatalities since the 70s was only in regards to the Shinkansen maybe.
Or maybe it was just FUD that I read somewhere.
See for yourself:Yeah they gon get to that $200 million cap.
Any word from the recent conference?
No it is correct. Previous casualty incident was in 1963. (IIRC)
And remember, their passenger rail companies are private and pay taxes!
EDIT: My mistake, this seems to be last night's presser. The latest one should be uploaded soon.
America is never going to develop any semblance of modern passenger rail infrastructure at this rate. We're generations behind the rest of the world and events like this will only lead to a decrease in railroad funding as people will misread the data and see this as normal rather than a rare and unfortunate accident. Such a tragedy, especially when effective passenger rail would save so much money/lives over cars
I won't be shocked if they were told in briefing about new track that it uses PTC, but either way they will be thrown under the bus even if some higher ups also carried responsibility.
That would suggest to me that the engineer was either distracted with a PED or was fatigued to the point of sleeping or microsleep. Just speculation though, when the NTSB interviews the engineer, they'll know more.Biggest new news from today's was that brakes were at no point triggered by engineer operating engine. They were automatically triggered by emergency system when shit started to go down.
That plus going 80 in 30 area is just huge failure at personnel level.