Netherlands: Meat substitutes on the rise (+51%), meat sales are falling (beef, pork down 9%)

Deleted member 31873 · Aug 14, 2019

Tence said:
Lol you literally said something is 'off' or 'wrong' with that research, while it is clearly described how the research was done. And you keep replying with anecdotal evidence. 'Continous real world experience' instead of research.... yeah sounds like a good idea.

You sound like my grandma: 'Smoking gives you cancer? Ridiculous...I've smoked for 40 years and I never got cancer'

Also no need to reply me. Our 'discussion' is useless and off topic.

Kassa jumped to conclusions that they cannot logically make due to the limited (and easily manipulated) data that they used. You previously admitted that Lidl might in fact be cheaper in my case, and likewise I can assert that the only thing Kassa has "proven" is that Albert Heijn may be cheaper in THEIR particular case, and only at the one particular moment that they happened to conduct the "research" (which is literally not representative of me, you, or anyone else except for their particular selection of items).

I stand by my statements and my views.

fallingedge · Aug 14, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
It doesn't taste exactly like beef, but it does have the texture of ground meat and has a more gamey flavor to it.

Depending on the brand of substitute meat, if someone told you it's just a gamey meat that has been turned into a burger, nobody would argue.

The fact we're already so close to having a near 1:1 imitation is a major step forward that tells me replacement red meat is going to completely disrupt the beef industry, and it's going to be brutal and swift like many disruptive technologies.

Also, the substitute stuff is not healthy. But you're eating burgers, it's not supposed to be.

I am just looking at it from a macro perspective. Like if I choose to get 93/7 ground beef or chicken breast or 99/1 ground turkey, I am fully aware of the breakdown and what I am putting in my body. I know that not everyone cares about it but this was just me being curious.

Fallout-NL · Aug 14, 2019

KeinPlanB said:
Anyway, there is money to be made from the hype as long as people are willing to pay more or the same for pseudo-meat

Speaking for myself (though I'm sure I'm not the only one), I willing to pay more grudgingly because I believe in pseudo meat for health and environmental reasons. However, it does piss me off to see that real (and much more) harmful meat is that much cheaper. So I'm hoping to see smarter and more forward thinking subsidizing in this area.

TheLostBigBoss said:
Also, the substitute stuff is not healthy. But you're eating burgers, it's not supposed to be.

Certainly not healthy in the traditional sense (still a bunch of fat and salt I reckon) but substitutes are not yet linked to colorectal cancer like real red meat is.

Deleted member 8561 · Aug 14, 2019

KeinPlanB said:
To replace a burger is much easier than to replace a steak. We'll probably need synthetic meat to do so, I can't see a perfect steak made from peas anytime soon.

You're not looking at the big picture.

Ground beef is what is the driver of the fast food industry, it's their main product, McDonalds ain't serving steaks. In the service industry, ground beef is over 60% of the beef sales. At home, ground beef is ~50% of total consumption of red meats.

You're looking at a ticking time bomb where the entire fast food industry will have a product that tastes like meat, chews like meat and eventually is as much or cheaper than real meat.

This is why when people scoff at the Impossible Burger having saying "no" to restaurants and instead going to Burger King for their limited production and demand, they are being beyond ignorant of how being first to the market with a meat substitute in an industry that will eventually take over animal born beef is a move that has incredible foresight.

Within the next 15 to 20 years, at least half of all red meat demand can easily be from lab grown meat and plant based meat.

And that's a big thing to remember, we're not even talking about lab grown meat, lab grown could very well take the mantle for complex meat structures like a steak, which would be the death of the animal based meat industry.

I wouldn't be shocked that by 2050, animal based meat are a luxury item and average consumption of meat is either lab grown or plant based.

So yes, replacing ground meats is an inherently "easier" endeavor than a steak. That's not the point nor the target. Replacing ground beef is such a major step froward in terms of environmental impact. Agriculture is a smaller piece of the carbon pie, but it's one of the most complex and difficult slices to reduce when compared to transportation and energy production. The fact we have a clear path forward to reducing that slice of the carbon pie is something nobody thought was really possible ten years ago. This isn't taking into account the massive reduction in water usage as well if animal farming vanishes as a mass industry.

johan · Aug 14, 2019

Vegetarische Slager's Little Willies are also pretty good, although I suppose making a fake sausage is not as hard as a something that has to like a an actual piece of meat

Deleted member 8561 · Aug 14, 2019

fallingedge said:
I am just looking at it from a macro perspective. Like if I choose to get 93/7 ground beef or chicken breast or 99/1 ground turkey, I am fully aware of the breakdown and what I am putting in my body. I know that not everyone cares about it but this was just me being curious.

Sure, but nobody is making burgers from 93/7 ground beef, you'll never get that out of any fast food or restaurant. The caloric intake is basically 1:1, but the sodium is far higher for plant based meats iirc. Plant based meats can also inherently control the fat contents too iirc, since they are "mixing" it in.

LegendofJoe · Aug 14, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
You're not looking at the big picture.

Ground beef is what is the driver of the fast food industry, it's their main product, McDonalds ain't serving steaks. In the service industry, ground beef is over 60% of the beef sales. At home, ground beef is ~50% of total consumption of red meats.

You're looking at a ticking time bomb where the entire fast food industry will have a product that tastes like meat, chews like meat and eventually is as much or cheaper than real meat.

This is why when people scoff at the Impossible Burger having saying "no" to restaurants and instead going to Burger King for their limited production and demand, they are being beyond ignorant of how being first to the market with a meat substitute in an industry that will eventually take over animal born beef is a move that has incredible foresight.

Within the next 15 to 20 years, at least half of all red meat demand can easily be from lab grown meat and plant based meat.

And that's a big thing to remember, we're not even talking about lab grown meat, lab grown could very well take the mantle for complex meat structures like a steak, which would be the death of the animal based meat industry.

I wouldn't be shocked that by 2050, animal based meat are a luxury item and average consumption of meat is either lab grown or plant based.

So yes, replacing ground meats is an inherently "easier" endeavor than a steak. That's not the point nor the target. Replacing ground beef is such a major step froward in terms of environmental impact. Agriculture is a smaller piece of the carbon pie, but it's one of the most complex and difficult slices to reduce when compared to transportation and energy production. The fact we have a clear path forward to reducing that slice of the carbon pie is something nobody thought was really possible ten years ago. This isn't taking into account the massive reduction in water usage as well if animal farming vanishes as a mass industry.

Fantastic post, and your last point is vitally important. Significantly reducing meat consumption is the panacea that will solve most of our pending water issues.

Deleted member 8561 · Aug 14, 2019

LegendofJoe said:
Fantastic post, and your last point is vitally important. Significantly reducing meat consumption is the panacea that will solve most of our pending water issues.

Thanks,

And that might sound like a pipe dream to some, but people need to remember mass farming is economical because there is mass consumption and demand. As more and more demand shifts to plant/lab meat, the cost of raising/producing animals for meat will rise, and you'll start a vicious cycle of

1) Plant based meats become cheaper from technological progress and economic of scales (more sales -> bigger production -> cheaper cost to produce)
2) Animal meat sales decline, in order to make current production profitable the cost of animal meat increases (inverse of economic of scales. Less production -> cost to produce increases)
3) Animal meat increases in price, sales decline as plant based meat increase from being a more cost effective alternative for consumers and businesses. Go to step 1

KeinPlanB · Aug 14, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
You're not looking at the big picture.

Ground beef is what is the driver of the fast food industry, it's their main product, McDonalds ain't serving steaks. In the service industry, ground beef is over 60% of the beef sales. At home, ground beef is ~50% of total consumption of red meats.

You're looking at a ticking time bomb where the entire fast food industry will have a product that tastes like meat, chews like meat and eventually is as much or cheaper than real meat.

This is why when people scoff at the Impossible Burger having saying "no" to restaurants and instead going to Burger King for their limited production and demand, they are being beyond ignorant of how being first to the market with a meat substitute in an industry that will eventually take over animal born beef is a move that has incredible foresight.

Within the next 15 to 20 years, at least half of all red meat demand can easily be from lab grown meat and plant based meat.

And that's a big thing to remember, we're not even talking about lab grown meat, lab grown could very well take the mantle for complex meat structures like a steak, which would be the death of the animal based meat industry.

I wouldn't be shocked that by 2050, animal based meat are a luxury item and average consumption of meat is either lab grown or plant based.

So yes, replacing ground meats is an inherently "easier" endeavor than a steak. That's not the point nor the target. Replacing ground beef is such a major step froward in terms of environmental impact. Agriculture is a smaller piece of the carbon pie, but it's one of the most complex and difficult slices to reduce when compared to transportation and energy production. The fact we have a clear path forward to reducing that slice of the carbon pie is something nobody thought was really possible ten years ago. This isn't taking into account the massive reduction in water usage as well if animal farming vanishes as a mass industry.

I am looking at the big picture and do not disagree with you here. Still there is a huge "steak industry", for which pseudo meat wont be the solution - but hopefully that problem is solved by people being more aware and changing to less but high quality local meat.

Surakian · Aug 14, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
That's a normal response, if you stop eating red meat for a long while and start eating it again, your body hasn't re-adjusted to breaking down the proteins.

Yeah, I figured that was what was happening. I have no desire to reintroduce it as a regular part of my diet to readjust, though.

Netherlands: Meat substitutes on the rise (+51%), meat sales are falling (beef, pork down 9%)

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