Dave Chappelle to drop 2 Netflix-specials on Dec 31st

quincognito · Dec 25, 2017

Flamin' Galah said:
To say someone is homophobic/transphobic for laughing at a gay or trans joke is ridiculous

I honestly can't think of a single more blatantly obvious example of what it means to be homophobic than to laugh at jokes about how gay people are bad

Mr_Derp said:
Either almost everything is off limits or nothing is.

This has been a thread with some really really ludicrous statements in it but this has gotta take the cake. There are in fact an infinite number of other options in between those.

36 Chambers said:
Maybe you guys should read your own posts sometimes. And just maybe you might see that trying to educate people might work a little better if you approached things with a slightly different manner.

You're an adult, be proactive a bit and educate yourself instead of whining that people aren't spending their time walking you through it with kid gloves.

foxuzamaki · Dec 25, 2017

King Tubby said:
Can't wait.

Marking the calender

Mariachi507 · Dec 25, 2017

Context matters people. One of Dave's most infamous skits was the Clayton Bigsby one. While he was playing a blind, black, white supremacist that dogged black people every other word he was actually taking the piss out of white supremacy by using satirel. His best material was always in the same fashion. Unfortunately, he had too many frat boys that misunderstood the satirical side of it all and they were parading around some of Dave's lines in a racist fashion. As a result, he thought his comedy was doing more harm than good. His trans material has no deeper context other than "trans-women are really just men in dresses, tee hee". Dave is one of the greatest of all time, he could and should do better than this.

Shroki · Dec 25, 2017

*sigh*

The content of Dave's trans material, particularly the material in his two sets released earlier in the year, was more ignorant than venomous. There were some jokes punching down and clearly he's in the wrong in some of his viewpoints (yes, Dave, you should change your pronoun game), but I think these are teachable gaps in his way of thinking. I don't think he's sitting around hating the trans community; I think he's been living in a bubble and hasn't had the conversation or education he needs to have to reshape the way he jokes about these things.

There's nothing in any of his material - anywhere - that makes me uncomfortable supporting him as an artist. If you feel there is... I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I do not believe he's a hateful person. I've followed the man and his work too closely for two decades and I know his mindset too well to label and dismiss him in that way. He's more thoughtful than that, even when he's very ignorant and very wrong.

Deleted member 4274 · Dec 25, 2017

Flamin' Galah said:
Maybe I am missing something here, but I think Patrice O'Neal sums it up in a good way.

Comedy isn't supposed to cater to everybody. Some people will laugh their asses off, others will look in disgust and be on the urge of walking out. There will also be those who don't feel anything, for whatever reason that may be.

To say someone is homophobic/transphobic for laughing at a gay or trans joke is ridiculous, just as ridiculous it is to tell someone who may be offended to build a bridge and get over it.

There can be a discussion but it can't happen when you or a group of people attempt to shut the other person or people down simply because you don't agree with what was said.

Ugh, I wanted to post this :(

Cindi Mayweather · Dec 25, 2017

I understand calling Dave out for his transphobia. But his transphobia is pretty light all things considered. I'm not saying to not care. I'm not saying to not be offended, but a lot of the reactions here are severely overblown. Does a comedian saying this stuff sting? Yeah, a little. But at the end of it all does it really affect in my day to day? No, it really doesn't. Furthermore, all we've seen so far the trailers, so a lot of the discussion here isn't even over something concrete. We don't know if with absolute certainty he made transphobic jokes in this Christmas special and the fact that this has taken over the thread with zero evidence other than his name is frankly, odd. I see so many passionate replies here regarding a comedian whose jokes many people felt were already ten years out of date.

Like I said: calling Dave out for his BS is great. Do that. But investing energy in it, being all mad and furious over it, comparing it to laws of the land...that stuff is pure hyperbole. His jokes were transphobic and he minimized the existence of black trans people. That's all that needs to be said.

Why isn't as much time spent on trying to get laws that make it legal for men to kill us trans women abolished? Why isn't there a thread here for the LGBT people who will be spending our holiday alone today when many of us are disowned? Why isn't there angry and fury aimed at the fact that when I go out on a first date, I have to choose a restaurant or some place that I never go to that is wayyyy out of my woods because I don't want to get into a situation where we go to one of my normal hang outs and the dude can tail me home and possibly kill me?

But nah.

Gotta get mad at Dave Chappelle. Yet I don't see a single trans person I know irl or in my network, which is made of literally hundreds of trans people, talking about this shit. Many of us right now are mourning the holidays and the loss of our families, our friends, and our loved ones, and yet y'all are making essays about this nigga who made some bad jokes like two-three years ago? It makes you look far removed from the actual trans community and I have read nothing as of yet in this thread that offers one resounding reason why I or any trans person for that matter should give one fuck what Dave Chappelle thinks. I don't give a fuck. My escort trans friends don't give a fuck. My conservative trans friends don't give a fuck. My professional bougie trans friends don't give a fuck. My SJW trans friends don't give a fuck. No one gives a fuck, partially because there's nothing to say because no one has even seen the Christmas special yet. If you're going to spend your energy at least get mad when Chappelle does something new worth getting mad at. But this is all hypothetical.

And again, to reiterate, I understand not liking his comments. But to this degree? Where you're waging a war on the dude? Much better causes to give a fuck about.

So why y'all so mad?

So what if someone said something transphobic? Lots of people will say transphobic things, do we wage war against every single one? Is every transphobic comment equal to next one? Time to let it go.

Persephone · Dec 25, 2017

Cindi Mayweather said:
So what if someone said something transphobic? Lots of people will say transphobic things, do we wage war against every single one? Is every transphobic comment equal to next one? Time to let it go.

The problem, as I understand it (never watched any of his stuff) is that he refuses to learn and educate himself and so keeps spouting transphobic nonsense to his audience of millions.

LionPride · Dec 25, 2017

Persephone said:
The problem, as I understand it (never watched any of his stuff) is that he refuses to learn and educate himself and so keeps spouting transphobic nonsense to his audience of millions.

The nigga a 50 yr old black man who is willing to learn which is mad wild tbh

1. Maybe you should watch
2. He has shown that he is willing to change up when he understands the criticism
3. He just didn't know that what he said was mad offensive cause he legit had no reason to know given who he is around

Cindi Mayweather · Dec 25, 2017

Persephone said:
The problem, as I understand it (never watched any of his stuff) is that he refuses to learn and educate himself and so keeps spouting transphobic nonsense to his audience of millions.

Even if what you say is true, there is nothing to indicate Chappelle has not learned from his mistake. That's another problem I've got: this Puritanical mindset where people aren't allowed to have made mistakes. Turning on the flip of a dime to take advantage of a struggle, like Hillary and some other Democrats' sudden change of heart to LGBT people? Okay. That felt political. As if their motivations weren't entirely genuine. But if it's a conscious effort to try to change why continue holding a grudge? Why assume that society is supposed to get used to the idea of trans people overnight? That's my problem. This idea that everyone must be perfect little people, who aren't allowed the very human quality of not only being wrong, but the ability to admit they are wrong and change course.

Lime · Dec 25, 2017

LionPride said:
The nigga a 50 yr old black man who is willing to learn which is mad wild tbh

1. Maybe you should watch
2. He has shown that he is willing to change up when he understands the criticism
3. He just didn't know that what he said was mad offensive cause he legit had no reason to know given who he is around

How is he willing to learn? He's been putting his foot down and refusing the change his transphobic material and he clearly doesn't care what trans people have to say about his dehumanization of them

litebrite · Dec 25, 2017

Lime said:
How is he willing to learn? He's been putting his foot down and refusing the change his transphobic material and he clearly doesn't care what trans people have to say about his dehumanization of them

Does his new material in these 2 new specials showcase his refusal to change his transphobic material and not caring what trans people have to say?

mac · Dec 25, 2017

King Tubby said:
Can't wait.

He is punching down. But I find it funny?

Someone help me here.

Heshinsi · Dec 25, 2017

Mariachi507 said:
Context matters people. One of Dave's most infamous skits was the Clayton Bigsby one. While he was playing a blind, black, white supremacist that dogged black people every other word he was actually taking the piss out of white supremacy by using satirel. His best material was always in the same fashion. Unfortunately, he had too many frat boys that misunderstood the satirical side of it all and they were parading around some of Dave's lines in a racist fashion. As a result, he thought his comedy was doing more harm than good. His trans material has no deeper context other than "trans-women are really just men in dresses, tee hee". Dave is one of the greatest of all time, he could and should do better than this.

Exactly. What the hell is the satire and social commentary in "let's go to the club and trick men into fucking us" or "she pulled her old dick out of her purse and slammed on the table and said 'let's talk business gentlemen'...aaahhhh"?

litebrite · Dec 25, 2017

mac said:
He is punching down. But I find it funny?

Someone help me here.

The irony of intersectionality.

As a Black man he's punching up towards Whiteness

As a rich man he's punching down towards poor people.

Thus the punchline that Poor Whites racial hatred econimically empower Rich Blacks.

A social commentary on race and class in America.

Dude Abides · Dec 25, 2017

Trans jokes aside the specials were mediocre. Like so mant once-greats dude got old and comfortable and lost it.

mac · Dec 25, 2017

litebrite said:
The irony of intersectionality.

As a Black man he's punching up towards Whiteness

As a rich man he's punching down towards poor people.

Thus the punchline that Poor Whites racial hatred econimically empower Rich Blacks.

A social commentary on race and class in America.

Uhhh. So up? Bad

or Down, not funny.

What is this special?

Lime · Dec 25, 2017

litebrite said:
Does his new material in these 2 new specials showcase his refusal to change his transphobic material and not caring what trans people have to say?

Show me an interview or a performance where he showed remorse or compassion. All I've read and seen after his lazy transphobic joke and dehumanization, is his stubbornness to learn and his willful embrace of transphobia.

Funkbrotherdee · Dec 25, 2017

Fuck Dave, fuck his hateful bullshit and fuck 'allies' who throw minorities under the bus in the name of comedy. Pathetic.

Deleted member 11501 · Dec 25, 2017

OMG how did this thread descend into utter trash over a trans joke he said. Dont you people have anything else to discuss. Honestly if he says a trans joke and its funny his doing a great job as far as im concerned its what he gets paid to do . Cant wait to watch his next 2 specials.

Ketkat · Dec 25, 2017

Stephane said:
OMG how did this thread descend into utter trash over a trans joke he said. Dont you people have anything else to discuss. Honestly if he says a trans joke and its funny his doing a great job as far as im concerned its what he gets paid to do . Cant wait to watch his next 2 specials.

Good job missing the whole thread

litebrite · Dec 25, 2017

Lime said:
Show me an interview or a performance where he showed remorse or compassion. All I've read and seen after his lazy transphobic joke and dehumanization, is his stubbornness to learn and his willful embrace of transphobia.

We have 2 specials about to come out that this thread is about to assess where he is comically. I thought maybe you already knew ahead of time that some of his jokes toward the trans community were offensive and he showed no growth.

Ketkat · Dec 25, 2017

litebrite said:
We have 2 specials about to come out that this thread is about to assess where he is comically. I thought maybe you already knew ahead of time that some of his jokes toward the trans community were offensive and he showed no growth.

We do know that. He's been telling jokes about trans people all year and they aren't better

Deleted member 11501 · Dec 25, 2017

Ketkat said:
Good job missing the whole thread

Thread was derailed after the first page but everyone just kept on going so i really did not miss anything

Ketkat · Dec 25, 2017

Stephane said:
Thread was derailed after the first page but everyone just kept on going so i really did not miss anything

How is it a derail to talk about the jokes coming in the special? You guys are so whiny when anyone criticizes a comedian you like

Deleted member 11501 · Dec 25, 2017

Ketkat said:
How is it a derail to talk about the jokes coming in the special? You guys are so whiny when anyone criticizes a comedian you like

I dont think its been 100% confirmed he will still use trans jokes. When it comes to specials comedians tend to use new material. And if he does its not going to be the end of the world

Ketkat · Dec 25, 2017

Stephane said:
I dont think its been 100% confirmed he will still use trans jokes. When it comes to specials comedians tend to use new material. And if he does its not going to be the end of the world

And that's why you need to read some of the thread. We've explained why the jokes are harmful multiple times

litebrite · Dec 25, 2017

Ketkat said:
We do know that. He's been telling jokes about trans people all year and they aren't better

That's why I was asking. LOL The only jokes I'm seeing being used as examples are from his last Netflix specials.

Ketkat · Dec 25, 2017

litebrite said:
That's why I was asking. LOL The only jokes I'm seeing being used as examples are from his last Netflix specials.

These 3 are from a few months ago :

He started by talking about how he was "shocked!" by Trump's ban on transgender officers in the military, because he didn't realize there were any trans people in the military. "Sounds like a secret weapon to me," he continued. "If I was in ISIS in the trenches fighting against the United States and all of the sudden I see a man with a beard and big D-cups titties just rushing my foxhole and shit, I'd be horrified."

"I read in the paper that Caitlyn Jenner was contemplating posing nude in an upcoming issue of Sports Illustrated. And I knew it was politically incorrect to say, so I figured I'd just say it for everybody — yuck. Fuck, man, I just want to read some stats, like why are you cramming man-pussy in the middle of the sports page like that?"

He ended by arguing that sometimes he thinks "the only reason all of us are talking about transgenders is because white men want to do it. If it was just blacks and Mexican like, 'Hey, y'all, we feel like girls inside.' They'd be like, 'Shut up, nigger, no one asked how you felt.'"

And this one's from earlier in the year:

Chappelle tells a story about being at a party where a trans girl gets high or drunk and proceeds to get sick and pass out. For Chappelle, "Whatever it was, it was definitely a man in a dress." He moseys over and unassumingly asks, "Is he okay?" He's admonished for using the wrong pronoun and now is immediately offended. "I support anyone's right to be who they are inside, but to what degree do I have to participate in your self-image? Why do I have to switch up my pronoun game for this motherfucker?"

Robin · Dec 25, 2017

Stephane said:
I dont think its been 100% confirmed he will still use trans jokes. When it comes to specials comedians tend to use new material. And if he does its not going to be the end of the world

No one said it would be the end of the world, just that these things are shitty and plentiful in society, and it sucks. It must be nice to be in a position where this sort of thing doesn't affect your day to day life, every day. I wouldn't know.

Deleted member 11501 · Dec 25, 2017

Ketkat said:
And that's why you need to read some of the thread. We've explained why the jokes are harmful multiple times

I have read through the thread and most people are just saying the same talking points , Any joke about a marginalised group of people can have potential to be harmful, however no group of people are immune from comedic ridicule.

Robin · Dec 25, 2017

Stephane said:
I have read through the thread and most people are just saying the same talking points , Any joke about a marginalised group of people can have potential to be harmful, however no group of people are immune from comedic ridicule.

No one is saying that. Users have put those words in others mouths repeatidly and you're doing it again. Read the thread again or stop posting.

Ketkat · Dec 25, 2017

Stephane said:
I have read through the thread and most people are just saying the same talking points , Any joke about a marginalised group of people can have potential to be harmful, however no group of people are immune from comedic ridicule.

You clearly haven't because we've talked about how his punchlines are always just saying we're men in dresses, or how we're really just men. Multiple trans people have spoken up and talked about how these aren't jokes, but just things people say to insult us. These don't have "potential" to be harmful, that's all they are. They're just insults that people who aren't trans are laughing at.

litebrite · Dec 25, 2017

Ketkat said:
These 3 are from a few months ago :

And this one's from earlier in the year:

The last one was in his special and was criticized. The third one is fine and is a commentary about race, privelage, and intersectionality. The first 2 will deservedly be criticized if they're on his specials.

litebrite · Dec 25, 2017

Ketkat said:
You clearly haven't because we've talked about how his punchlines are always just saying we're men in dresses, or how we're really just men. Multiple trans people have spoken up and talked about how these aren't jokes, but just things people say to insult us. These don't have "potential" to be harmful, that's all they are. They're just insults that people who aren't trans are laughing at.

There's no question the jokes are laughing at trans people and not with them.

Robin · Dec 25, 2017

litebrite said:
The last one was in his special and was criticized. The third one is fine and is a commentary about race, privelage, and intersectionality. The first 2 will deservedly be criticized if they're on his specials.

Nope, it's just wildly transphobic. How is insisting he has a right to refer to transwoman by male pronouns not transphobic?

Edit: I haven't seen the source, so assuming the quote isn't missing some illuminating context or whatever.

litebrite · Dec 25, 2017

Robin said:
Nope, it's just wildly transphobic. How is insisting he has a right to refer to transwoman by male pronouns not transphobic?

I said the last one was on his special and was criticized. I am in agreement with you.

However I at least think that joke was honest about his stance at the time and was a genuine question I think the majority of people had.

The joke was people's concerns over his pronoun usage being more significant than his concern over the well being of a person who in that moment appeared to be sick.

It was learning moment.

That's why criticism can be good.

Robin · Dec 25, 2017

litebrite said:
I said the last one was on his special and was criticized. I am in agreement with you.

However I at least think that joke was honest about his stance at the time and was a genuine question I think the majority of people had.

The joke was people's concerns over his pronoun usage being more significant than his concern over the well being of a person who in that moment appeared to be sick.

It was learning moment.

That's why criticism can be good.

I just saw a clip of the material and I have to respectfully disagree, doesn't seem like an evolution or a genuine question at all. He immediately compares being transgender to him pretending to be white, makes a dick joke, etc. Doesn't seem like he's learning much to me. Sure he's honest, honestly transphobic.

litebrite · Dec 25, 2017

Robin said:
I just saw a clip of the material and I have to respectfully disagree, doesn't seem like an evolution or a genuine question at all. He immediately compares being transgender to him pretending to be white, makes a dick joke, etc. Doesn't seem like he's learning much to me. Sure he's honest, honestly transphobic.

I have no idea if he's evolved or learned since then but from what's been posted, it doesn't look like it.

Yes, it's transphobic but at least his ignorance seemed more genuine and earnest because the joke is built around him being concerned over the well being of a human.

The first two ketkat posted seemed to be more mean spirited.

Lime · Dec 25, 2017

litebrite said:
We have 2 specials about to come out that this thread is about to assess where he is comically. I thought maybe you already knew ahead of time that some of his jokes toward the trans community were offensive and he showed no growth.

His interviews and public statements show exactly where he is standing

dakun · Dec 25, 2017

can't wait for these 2. No doubt it'll be great as always

King Tubby · Dec 25, 2017

mac said:
He is punching down. But I find it funny?

Someone help me here.

This is why I hate the whole punching up/down dichotomy.

Cream · Dec 25, 2017

Cindi Mayweather said:
I understand calling Dave out for his transphobia. But his transphobia is pretty light all things considered. I'm not saying to not care. I'm not saying to not be offended, but a lot of the reactions here are severely overblown. Does a comedian saying this stuff sting? Yeah, a little. But at the end of it all does it really affect in my day to day? No, it really doesn't. Furthermore, all we've seen so far the trailers, so a lot of the discussion here isn't even over something concrete. We don't know if with absolute certainty he made transphobic jokes in this Christmas special and the fact that this has taken over the thread with zero evidence other than his name is frankly, odd. I see so many passionate replies here regarding a comedian whose jokes many people felt were already ten years out of date.

Like I said: calling Dave out for his BS is great. Do that. But investing energy in it, being all mad and furious over it, comparing it to laws of the land...that stuff is pure hyperbole. His jokes were transphobic and he minimized the existence of black trans people. That's all that needs to be said.

Why isn't as much time spent on trying to get laws that make it legal for men to kill us trans women abolished? Why isn't there a thread here for the LGBT people who will be spending our holiday alone today when many of us are disowned? Why isn't there angry and fury aimed at the fact that when I go out on a first date, I have to choose a restaurant or some place that I never go to that is wayyyy out of my woods because I don't want to get into a situation where we go to one of my normal hang outs and the dude can tail me home and possibly kill me?

But nah.

Gotta get mad at Dave Chappelle. Yet I don't see a single trans person I know irl or in my network, which is made of literally hundreds of trans people, talking about this shit. Many of us right now are mourning the holidays and the loss of our families, our friends, and our loved ones, and yet y'all are making essays about this nigga who made some bad jokes like two-three years ago? It makes you look far removed from the actual trans community and I have read nothing as of yet in this thread that offers one resounding reason why I or any trans person for that matter should give one fuck what Dave Chappelle thinks. I don't give a fuck. My escort trans friends don't give a fuck. My conservative trans friends don't give a fuck. My professional bougie trans friends don't give a fuck. My SJW trans friends don't give a fuck. No one gives a fuck, partially because there's nothing to say because no one has even seen the Christmas special yet. If you're going to spend your energy at least get mad when Chappelle does something new worth getting mad at. But this is all hypothetical.

And again, to reiterate, I understand not liking his comments. But to this degree? Where you're waging a war on the dude? Much better causes to give a fuck about.

So why y'all so mad?

So what if someone said something transphobic? Lots of people will say transphobic things, do we wage war against every single one? Is every transphobic comment equal to next one? Time to let it go.

:/

I mean don't know really know what to tell you. Just because none of your friends have talked to you about it doesn't meant they don't care.

I'm perfectly able to care and work at many different things at the same time. But I don't think I or anyone should have to prove our "trans cred" to you. But you're completely entitled to your opinion. I think your thread ideas would be really good, especially the one about getting disowned from families and having no one to spend Christmas with.

But there have been plenty of trans women in the thread who do care about this, and it definitely is harmful with the audience Dave has. A lot of people coming in saying that they laughed and don't get the problem. It should be a teachable moment. A chance to come together and learn with trans allies.

I don't intend to go on a crusade about every trans insult I see. Dave Chappelle is one of the most famous comedians in the world, and many people who call themselves allies laugh at the jokes and don't see the problem with them. I care more about educating them, and anyone listening, than Dave Chappelle. Increasing our visibility is part of the whole point right? I don't know if the "rising tide" adage has a reverse, but it's what comes to mind. I wanted to be able to think I could fight the big battles and the little battles too...

I've already gotten PMs from people, confiding in me about the stress in their lives and the marginalization they feel, and how being in a thread like this with them is making their holiday season a little more bareable and giving them some hope. I appreciate your candor. Sincerely I do. It's given me a lot to think about. But even now, knowing that many in this thread will read your post and go "aha, see, I knew it. I don't have to care at all." makes me wanna fetch. It really saddens me to read your post, cause sometimes I can't help but feel, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just doing more harm than good? I mean, is there even a point to trying anymore? It's never going to stop. The equality is never gonna be there. So maybe I should just focus on keeping mine and my own safe and healthy. I just don't know anymore. Everything feels like a lost cause.

It would just be nice to watch a comedy special of a beloved comedian and not feel like the trans identity is under attack to the laughter of millions... but posts like yours and so many others are really making me think that's too much to ask for.

Merry Christmas.

Novel · Dec 25, 2017

Cindi Mayweather said:
Bunch of nonsense defending Dave from someone with a history/and from a forum that I expect to downplay anything at this point so long as it defends transphobia/any fears trans individuals present both in this thread and elsewhere online

Okay then.

Cream said:
:/

I mean don't know really know what to tell you. Just because none of your friends have talked to you about it doesn't meant they don't care.

I'm perfectly able to care and work at many different things at the same time. But I don't think I or anyone should have to prove our "trans cred" to you. But you're completely entitled to your opinion. I think your thread ideas would be really good, especially the one about getting disowned from families and having no one to spend Christmas with.

But there have been plenty of trans women in the thread who do care about this, and it definitely is harmful with the audience Dave has. A lot of people coming in saying that they laughed and don't get the problem. It should be a teachable moment. A chance to come together and learn with trans allies.

I don't intend to go on a crusade about every trans insult I see. Dave Chappelle is one of the most famous comedians in the world, and many people who call themselves allies laugh at the jokes and don't see the problem with them. I care more about educating them, and anyone listening, than Dave Chappelle. Increasing our visibility is part of the whole point right? I don't know if the "rising tide" adage has a reverse, but it's what comes to mind. I wanted to be able to think I could fight the big battles and the little battles too...

I've already gotten PMs from people, confiding in me about the stress in their lives and the marginalization they feel, and how being in a thread like this with them is making their holiday season a little more bareable and giving them some hope. I appreciate your candor. Sincerely I do. It's given me a lot to think about. But even now, knowing that many in this thread will read your post and go "aha, see, I knew it. I don't have to care at all." makes me wanna fetch. It really saddens me to read your post, cause sometimes I can't help but feel, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just doing more harm than good? I mean, is there even a point to trying anymore? It's never going to stop. The equality is never gonna be there. So maybe I should just focus on keeping mine and my own safe and healthy. I just don't know anymore. Everything feels like a lost cause.

It would just be nice to watch a comedy special of a beloved comedian and not feel like the trans identity is under attack to the laughter of millions... but posts like yours and so many others are really making me think that's too much to ask for.

Merry Christmas.

You're fine, Cream.
Keep doing you.
Cindi is anything but right here and she frankly speaking wants you to stop being a passionate speaker for this kind of thing.

Elginer · Dec 25, 2017

I'm just looking forward to more Dave! Not gonna touch this other subject with a 20ft pole.

Uno Venova · Dec 25, 2017

Anytime a Dave Chappelle thread is long, I know what it's about. Anyway, can't wait for these specials!

Llyrwenne · Dec 25, 2017

Cindi Mayweather said:
I understand calling Dave out for his transphobia. But his transphobia is pretty light all things considered. I'm not saying to not care. I'm not saying to not be offended, but a lot of the reactions here are severely overblown. Does a comedian saying this stuff sting? Yeah, a little. But at the end of it all does it really affect in my day to day? No, it really doesn't. Furthermore, all we've seen so far the trailers, so a lot of the discussion here isn't even over something concrete. We don't know if with absolute certainty he made transphobic jokes in this Christmas special and the fact that this has taken over the thread with zero evidence other than his name is frankly, odd. I see so many passionate replies here regarding a comedian whose jokes many people felt were already ten years out of date.

Like I said: calling Dave out for his BS is great. Do that. But investing energy in it, being all mad and furious over it, comparing it to laws of the land...that stuff is pure hyperbole. His jokes were transphobic and he minimized the existence of black trans people. That's all that needs to be said.

Why isn't as much time spent on trying to get laws that make it legal for men to kill us trans women abolished? Why isn't there a thread here for the LGBT people who will be spending our holiday alone today when many of us are disowned? Why isn't there angry and fury aimed at the fact that when I go out on a first date, I have to choose a restaurant or some place that I never go to that is wayyyy out of my woods because I don't want to get into a situation where we go to one of my normal hang outs and the dude can tail me home and possibly kill me?

But nah.

Gotta get mad at Dave Chappelle. Yet I don't see a single trans person I know irl or in my network, which is made of literally hundreds of trans people, talking about this shit. Many of us right now are mourning the holidays and the loss of our families, our friends, and our loved ones, and yet y'all are making essays about this nigga who made some bad jokes like two-three years ago? It makes you look far removed from the actual trans community and I have read nothing as of yet in this thread that offers one resounding reason why I or any trans person for that matter should give one fuck what Dave Chappelle thinks. I don't give a fuck. My escort trans friends don't give a fuck. My conservative trans friends don't give a fuck. My professional bougie trans friends don't give a fuck. My SJW trans friends don't give a fuck. No one gives a fuck, partially because there's nothing to say because no one has even seen the Christmas special yet. If you're going to spend your energy at least get mad when Chappelle does something new worth getting mad at. But this is all hypothetical.

And again, to reiterate, I understand not liking his comments. But to this degree? Where you're waging a war on the dude? Much better causes to give a fuck about.

So why y'all so mad?

So what if someone said something transphobic? Lots of people will say transphobic things, do we wage war against every single one? Is every transphobic comment equal to next one? Time to let it go.

I really wanted to write up a detailed reply, but I just do not have the time, energy, or self-restraint. These blatant whataboutisms and your 'I have trans friends', 'why u mad', and 'transphobia is pretty light' comments are extremely gross and dismissive.

Cream said:
:/

I mean don't know really know what to tell you. Just because none of your friends have talked to you about it doesn't meant they don't care.

I'm perfectly able to care and work at many different things at the same time. But I don't think I or anyone should have to prove our "trans cred" to you. But you're completely entitled to your opinion. I think your thread ideas would be really good, especially the one about getting disowned from families and having no one to spend Christmas with.

But there have been plenty of trans women in the thread who do care about this, and it definitely is harmful with the audience Dave has. A lot of people coming in saying that they laughed and don't get the problem. It should be a teachable moment. A chance to come together and learn with trans allies.

I don't intend to go on a crusade about every trans insult I see. Dave Chappelle is one of the most famous comedians in the world, and many people who call themselves allies laugh at the jokes and don't see the problem with them. I care more about educating them, and anyone listening, than Dave Chappelle. Increasing our visibility is part of the whole point right? I don't know if the "rising tide" adage has a reverse, but it's what comes to mind. I wanted to be able to think I could fight the big battles and the little battles too...

I've already gotten PMs from people, confiding in me about the stress in their lives and the marginalization they feel, and how being in a thread like this with them is making their holiday season a little more bareable and giving them some hope. I appreciate your candor. Sincerely I do. It's given me a lot to think about. But even now, knowing that many in this thread will read your post and go "aha, see, I knew it. I don't have to care at all." makes me wanna fetch. It really saddens me to read your post, cause sometimes I can't help but feel, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just doing more harm than good? I mean, is there even a point to trying anymore? It's never going to stop. The equality is never gonna be there. So maybe I should just focus on keeping mine and my own safe and healthy. I just don't know anymore. Everything feels like a lost cause.

It would just be nice to watch a comedy special of a beloved comedian and not feel like the trans identity is under attack to the laughter of millions... but posts like yours and so many others are really making me think that's too much to ask for.

Merry Christmas.

Don't worry, you're doing fine. <3

TheIdiot · Dec 25, 2017

Cindi Mayweather said:
I understand calling Dave out for his transphobia. But his transphobia is pretty light all things considered. I'm not saying to not care. I'm not saying to not be offended, but a lot of the reactions here are severely overblown. Does a comedian saying this stuff sting? Yeah, a little. But at the end of it all does it really affect in my day to day? No, it really doesn't. Furthermore, all we've seen so far the trailers, so a lot of the discussion here isn't even over something concrete. We don't know if with absolute certainty he made transphobic jokes in this Christmas special and the fact that this has taken over the thread with zero evidence other than his name is frankly, odd. I see so many passionate replies here regarding a comedian whose jokes many people felt were already ten years out of date.

Like I said: calling Dave out for his BS is great. Do that. But investing energy in it, being all mad and furious over it, comparing it to laws of the land...that stuff is pure hyperbole. His jokes were transphobic and he minimized the existence of black trans people. That's all that needs to be said.

Why isn't as much time spent on trying to get laws that make it legal for men to kill us trans women abolished? Why isn't there a thread here for the LGBT people who will be spending our holiday alone today when many of us are disowned? Why isn't there angry and fury aimed at the fact that when I go out on a first date, I have to choose a restaurant or some place that I never go to that is wayyyy out of my woods because I don't want to get into a situation where we go to one of my normal hang outs and the dude can tail me home and possibly kill me?

But nah.

Gotta get mad at Dave Chappelle. Yet I don't see a single trans person I know irl or in my network, which is made of literally hundreds of trans people, talking about this shit. Many of us right now are mourning the holidays and the loss of our families, our friends, and our loved ones, and yet y'all are making essays about this nigga who made some bad jokes like two-three years ago? It makes you look far removed from the actual trans community and I have read nothing as of yet in this thread that offers one resounding reason why I or any trans person for that matter should give one fuck what Dave Chappelle thinks. I don't give a fuck. My escort trans friends don't give a fuck. My conservative trans friends don't give a fuck. My professional bougie trans friends don't give a fuck. My SJW trans friends don't give a fuck. No one gives a fuck, partially because there's nothing to say because no one has even seen the Christmas special yet. If you're going to spend your energy at least get mad when Chappelle does something new worth getting mad at. But this is all hypothetical.

And again, to reiterate, I understand not liking his comments. But to this degree? Where you're waging a war on the dude? Much better causes to give a fuck about.

So why y'all so mad?

So what if someone said something transphobic? Lots of people will say transphobic things, do we wage war against every single one? Is every transphobic comment equal to next one? Time to let it go.

What a refreshingly objective, nuanced, thoughtful opinion on this matter. Cheers to that.

Novel · Dec 25, 2017

TheIdiot said:
What a refreshingly objective, nuanced, thoughtful opinion on this matter. Cheers to that.

I mean, not really. If you want to call being dismissive of many upon many other trans individuals, invoking whataboutisms, claims that transphobia is light, etc. etc. etc.

That comment is wholly constructed to convince people outside of trans circles that it's not a concern when it can be along with numerous other matters at the same time. It's the same kind of argument you see disingenuous alt-righters make when they try to say shit like: "HOW CAN YOU CARE ABOUT WOMEN HERE, WOMEN IN AFRICA HAVE IT WORSE". It's an attempt to belittle people for caring, change the subject and encourage trans allies and people outside of the argument to care less about putting themselves into the argument in the first place. IE: to cut out voices that can be helpful to trans individuals from time to time. The goal is to make people care less about trans voices and trans issues.

Given Cindi's past and the forum she comes from, this rings loud and clear.

Ketkat · Dec 25, 2017

TheIdiot said:
What a refreshingly objective, nuanced, thoughtful opinion on this matter. Cheers to that.

Only when they agree with you huh

Thisman · Dec 25, 2017

This will likely be one of Dave Chappelle's greatest peformances, I can feel it . True GOAT of stand up

Dave Chappelle to drop 2 Netflix-specials on Dec 31st

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