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EuroCosplay ban League of Legends Cosplayer for blackface
- Thread starter Deleted member 15428
- Start date
I'd assumed the entire body suit with no skin of the cosplayer showing is what made this a story. People are apparently saying it's common and that they recolor the character to match their own skin.
Her response was pretty terrible, but discounting that, I'm curious as to what people who do call it black face would want for her to do in this situation. She wants to fully recreate the character by making an entire suit and mask for it I assume. Would it have been better if she made that full suit white instead, even if it's still not her skin? Not trying to be facetious or obtuse here. Is the issue a more general one? One of any white person representing a black person, and that's it as opposed to what I previously thought of black face as the typically more malicious or more specifically painting your face black approach?
With your logic I can genuinely not cosplay as any character with white skin or I'm brownwashing the character with my brown/caramel skin.
Yeah, I'm going with that too. As a black man, I'm not going to lie. That cosplay is incredible. However, having to wear a whole brown bodysuit to make your skin dark for the cosplay just screams "bad idea". Like really bad idea.
black face isn't just about making fun of and stereotyping black people, it can also be about appropriating culture and skin.
she could have readily just done the cosplay without blacking up. that would have been fine.
this is perhaps where most sentences like this should stop.
she could have readily just done the cosplay without blacking up. that would have been fine.
this is perhaps where most sentences like this should stop.
I do not support this kind of thing.
but what about a fully articulated robot suit that just happens to have black skin?
I don't think you were replying to me, but this seems like a good opportunity to say this: personally, I'll fully admit that this one is a bit of a blind spot for me. I pretty much don't care that the cosplayer got banned (and again, their response was incredibly dumb and reeks of fragility; pretty embarrassing), but I'm on the fence about the costume regardless, now that I know it's a full bodysuit.
That said, I'm white, so what do I know - I mean that genuinely, not being sarcastic. I'll be happy to abandon any doubts I have and just be against this cosplay 100% if Black people tell me it's not okay. That'll be enough. If I can also get some kind of explanation as to why this is not any different from your average blackface, it's even better, but otherwise, it's fine. I'm not owed an explanation.
Or even more accuratelyIt isnt hard to simulate a games artstyle
I'd probably cut her a little slack if she wasn't like "Fuck you I'm wearing it anyway" because it's otherwise obvious that she was prioritizing the original art style and not trying to make a mockery of someone.
Show some sensitivity next time and maybe explain yourself.
Show some sensitivity next time and maybe explain yourself.
Ok, I get where you are coming from now. That perspective does rightly rule out a larger range of skin altering behaviors. Thanks for explaining!
From my opinion, it's a moot point because anyone wearing a deliberately goofy mask of Obama is 99% doing it specifically to mock and degrade him as a person, so that person would be terrible just from the outset of it.Serious question, would wearing one of those Obama president masks be considered blackface?
Yeah this whole situation is basically a white person wearing one of those just on a much more expensive scaleSerious question, would wearing one of those Obama president masks be considered blackface?
User Banned (1 Week): Excusing Blackface
It isnt hard to simulate a games artstyle
It's not, but at the same time when you're not using your skin as part of the cosplay you have no reason to leave the visible parts of a character your own skin color other than conscious choice. If the costume had been made white I have a hard time imagining it going over well.
Can't really say I agree.
Kinda reminds me vaguely about the debates of whether white people should dress up as drow, because that can get dangerously close to blackface as well despite them not being actual human black folks.
But yeah, in this instance the best move would have been... don't do this. I don't think the distinction between whether or not it's blackface because she didn't paint herself matters. I think the folks you're gonna hurt doing this aren't really going to care when you "well TECHNICALLY" them about why they shouldn't be bothered.
But yeah, in this instance the best move would have been... don't do this. I don't think the distinction between whether or not it's blackface because she didn't paint herself matters. I think the folks you're gonna hurt doing this aren't really going to care when you "well TECHNICALLY" them about why they shouldn't be bothered.
User Banned (2 weeks): Excusing blackface.
Are people really taking the effort of looking at that costume and deliberately misrepresenting why she did it?
The purpose of cosplay is to portray a character. There are several layers of cosplay from putting on the most recognizable features of a character to accurately portraying a character down to the last detail. This cosplayer did the latter, which takes a lot of dedication and effort.
By the general sentiment around this it looks like you can only portray characters that look like you. Because if you portray someone like the cosplayer in the OP you get accused if blackface. Had she done the character with white skin she would be accused of whitewashing the character. Furthermore since it was for a competition it would have greatly reduced her chances for winning because it would have been labeled as a low quality effort.
I think people need to consider context and most importantly understand the intent of the action that was done here.
The purpose of cosplay is to portray a character. There are several layers of cosplay from putting on the most recognizable features of a character to accurately portraying a character down to the last detail. This cosplayer did the latter, which takes a lot of dedication and effort.
By the general sentiment around this it looks like you can only portray characters that look like you. Because if you portray someone like the cosplayer in the OP you get accused if blackface. Had she done the character with white skin she would be accused of whitewashing the character. Furthermore since it was for a competition it would have greatly reduced her chances for winning because it would have been labeled as a low quality effort.
I think people need to consider context and most importantly understand the intent of the action that was done here.
I feel bad for her because she clearly put a lot of care and thought (and holy shit a lot of money) in this but while it's not a blackface per see, it still touches the premise of skin colors not being a costume, so yeah she's wrong, even if it's not made with malice, she should have known better... a shitty situation for sure
Fair enough. That only works if you've got the right body shape for the character to begin with, though. She doesnt, as she's portraying an athletic male. I'd also argue that the examples you've posted there aren't as successful in recreating the respective art style as her suit is.Or even more accurately
She's clearly put all her effort into making a costume for her favourite character, not to mock, pillory or pillage the character's ethnicity in any way. Whether that's 100% appropriate is another matter.
I do think they organiser's reaction is a bit heavy handed but her flippant reaction to the ban is pushing me the other way; if she was a bit more apologetic about it, she'd probably be able to get the ban overturned.
All this said, I'm a white guy so feel free to ignore
I do think they organiser's reaction is a bit heavy handed but her flippant reaction to the ban is pushing me the other way; if she was a bit more apologetic about it, she'd probably be able to get the ban overturned.
All this said, I'm a white guy so feel free to ignore
The prime intent wasn't to do this for a character because they were black though. It's offensive because the character was black but I don't think the intent when making the costume was for the skin color to get out of some black face loophole, but to be able to replicate musculature that would be impossible for her body type to pull off.
Many cosplayers are myopic when it comes to representing details and this feels like a consequence of that.
It's not an American issue, it's a human one that the general population outside of America (and arguably in America) have not been exposed to and therefore have a hard time finding offensive. They probably understand the rationalization but when exposed to the action itself their instinctual feelings are probably not offense.
I'm just trying to rationalize the process behind the making of the costume. Because the intention was definitely not to offend. Her responses are disgusting, but cosplayers put a lot of passion and effort into their projects and the prime driver was likely recreating a replica and not racially driven.
It's just a pity considering the workmanship. I wonder if things would've turned out different if it were made into a controllable puppet as opposed to a skin suit.
Looks really good, but damn, if it ain't blackface where do you draw the line? Not for me to say that's for sure.
Ok after reading some of the responses in here, this attitude of:
1.Trying to dismiss blackface in general as people just being sensitive
2. People trying to tell PoC what is and what isn't blackface
isn't going to to fly at all. Blackface is not just painting your face in a caricature manner. It means to alter your appearance to appear as a PoC in order to mock. Even if said person didn't have I'll intentions, the idea of wearing a brown bodysuit to alter her entire appearance knowing that it is a sensitive issue, is bad enough. Then her tweets pretty much show that she doesn't care and is butthurt she got disqualified showing a lack of empathy and common sense.
Then you get people in this thread trying to tell others what is and isn't blackface and trying to defend her. You all had no problem laughing along with the Wayans Bros. in White Chicks when a couple of black dudes dress up as white women, but come rushing to the rescue to defend an ignorant cosplayer who even with a great cosplay, is still clearly in the wrong? Keep that same energy. 👌🏾
1.Trying to dismiss blackface in general as people just being sensitive
2. People trying to tell PoC what is and what isn't blackface
isn't going to to fly at all. Blackface is not just painting your face in a caricature manner. It means to alter your appearance to appear as a PoC in order to mock. Even if said person didn't have I'll intentions, the idea of wearing a brown bodysuit to alter her entire appearance knowing that it is a sensitive issue, is bad enough. Then her tweets pretty much show that she doesn't care and is butthurt she got disqualified showing a lack of empathy and common sense.
Then you get people in this thread trying to tell others what is and isn't blackface and trying to defend her. You all had no problem laughing along with the Wayans Bros. in White Chicks when a couple of black dudes dress up as white women, but come rushing to the rescue to defend an ignorant cosplayer who even with a great cosplay, is still clearly in the wrong? Keep that same energy. 👌🏾
It's blackface. People need to stop thinking it ok to use my skin as a costume.
User Banned (2 weeks): excusing blackface
Peoples stance on blackface confuses me. If its for halloween, but still considered a cosplay is it a problem?
Because this is kinda the same thing but with care put into the costume for a contest.
She painted her whole body brown to match the tone of the character. Some people have done the same i'd imagine without malicious intent(obviously there are those that do do it in malicious intent, not excusing that) and it comes off totally different to people.
This just comes off as a "play it safe" situation.
Because this is kinda the same thing but with care put into the costume for a contest.
She painted her whole body brown to match the tone of the character. Some people have done the same i'd imagine without malicious intent(obviously there are those that do do it in malicious intent, not excusing that) and it comes off totally different to people.
This just comes off as a "play it safe" situation.
User Banned (permanent): excusing blackface
It's cosplay of a fictional character.
so how does she meet the criteria for blackface by your bolded definition?
People keep mentioning that it's completely faithful to the character. How many times do we see Japanese people cosplay as ostensibly white characters and not paint their skin? Every time?
Changing your skin tone to another race (effectively) is not a part of cosplay that is done often. It is definitely not a part of the goal. She could have made this suit with her own skin tone and it would still be a great recreation that anyone would recognize who has played this game. I haven't so Pyke means nothing to me, but I'd still be impressed by the craft involved.
This was a bad idea and she didn't feel bad about offending anyone. Good for the organizer for taking this stand.
A black fictional person is still blackface. She is still doing a costume to be a black person.
I think the response to this is yes it is still a problem. Doesn't matter what day, or what time of day. You're wearing a different skin color.
I'm inclined to say no, but according to the responses in this thread an Obama mask would be considered blackface, because you can take it on and off again.Serious question, would wearing one of those Obama president masks be considered blackface?
Honest question: I'm a white man, but what if I wanted to cosplay as Blade? I'm not planning to, but I am genuinely not sure what the appropriate way to go about it would be. Obviously changing my skin colour feels racist, but on the other hand I'd also feel odd just pretending Blade is white.
It seems safer for people just not to dress as characters with different racial characteristics at all.
It's an awkward situation. Because no matter how much love you have in your heart when putting this together, it is what is.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.
I think it still would have looked great if the costume shared her own complexion.
I think there is a divorce in thinking here that leads to the conflict. Yes, skin color is not a costume. Pyke however is. Pyke is also black. Now in the case of a costume where the skin is the wearer's actual skin the choice to darken that skin and have the benefits of wearing it while also having the benefits of turning it off is indeed demonstrative of the issue with black face.
But that's not happening here. Here the alternative is to consciously make the entire costume of Pyke, the only thing you see as the wearer is wholly concealed, white. You make Pyke literally white. Is that the more acceptable solution? Whitewashing the character?
So I'm going to ask:
- Would the costume be alright if it was made and worn by a black person?
- Would it be alright if only one of the 2, and does it matter which?
- If the answer to the above questions is no do you make the character white given that the constume itself has no inherent skin color?
- If the answer to that is no is the character off limits to white people as a body suit?
Actually I think a lot of high profile Japanese cosplayers try pretty hard to emulate the whiteness of skin for cosplay depending on the character when compared to their original skin tone. Or at least in post with Photoshop. They could be playing with lighting too to make their skin look lighter as well.
Of course that's harder to spot than actual darkening of skin.
Yeah like that's how I thought the consensus was but some in this thread seems to think otherwise by replacing costume w cosplay.
She is still making a costume to become a black person. She is still changing her skin to become black.
If a black person did it then obviously it would be ok right? As they black.
mod post - thread guidelines
Official Staff Communication
Re-opening, with a reminder that any kind of excusing of blackface is considered racism and will be actioned severely per our FAQ https://www.resetera.com/threads/general-guide-to-resetera.9777/
I don't see the point in reopening the thread if everyone who doesn't think it's blackface is just gonna be banned. There's no more discussion to be had here.
I'm not really defending anything, I just think the thread has run its course at this point. What more can, actually, be said outside of "it's blackface, she deserved it"?