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Pretty much the headline.
https://theintercept.com/2017/12/30...direction-of-the-u-s-and-israeli-governments/

In September of last year, we noted that Facebook representatives were meeting with the Israeli government to determine which Facebook accounts of Palestinians should be deleted on the ground that they constituted "incitement." The meetings — called for and presided over by one of the most extremist and authoritarian Israeli officials, pro-settlement Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked — came after Israel threatened Facebook that its failure to voluntarily comply with Israeli deletion orders would result in the enactment of laws requiring Facebook to do so, upon pain of being severely fined or even blocked in the country.

The predictable results of those meetings are now clear and well-documented. Ever since, Facebook has been on a censorship rampage against Palestinian activists who protest the decades-long, illegal Israeli occupation, all directed and determined by Israeli officials. Indeed, Israeli officials have been publicly boasting about how obedient Facebook is when it comes to Israeli censorship orders:

"Shortly after news broke earlier this month of the agreement between the Israeli government and Facebook, Israeli Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked said Tel Aviv had submitted 158 requests to the social media giant over the previous four months asking it to remove content it deemed "incitement." She said Facebook had granted 95 percent of the requests."
A 2016 report from the Palestinian Center for Development and Media Freedoms detailed how extensive the Facebook censorship was:

"Pages and personal accounts that were filtered and blocked: Palestinian Dialogue Network (PALDF.net) Gaza now, Jerusalem News Network, Shihab agency, Radio Bethlehem 2000, Orient Radio Network, page Mesh Heck, Ramallah news, journalist Huzaifa Jamous from Abu Dis, activist Qassam Bedier, activist Mohammed Ghannam, journalist Kamel Jbeil, administrative accounts for Al Quds Page, administrative accounts Shihab agency, activist Abdel-Qader al-Titi, youth activist Hussein Shajaeih, Ramah Mubarak (account is activated), Ahmed Abdel Aal (account is activated), Mohammad Za'anin (still deleted), Amer Abu Arafa (still deleted), Abdulrahman al-Kahlout (still deleted)."

Needless to say, Israelis have virtually free rein to post whatever they want about Palestinians. Calls by Israelis for the killing of Palestinians are commonplace on Facebook, and largely remain undisturbed.

As Al Jazeera reported last year, "Inflammatory speech posted in the Hebrew language … has attracted much less attention from the Israeli authorities and Facebook." One study found that "122,000 users directly called for violence with words like 'murder,' 'kill,' or 'burn.' Arabs were the No. 1 recipients of hateful comments." Yet there appears to be little effort by Facebook to censor any of that.
Facebook now seems to be explicitly admitting that it also intends to follow the censorship orders of the U.S. government. Earlier this week, the company deleted the Facebook and Instagram accounts of Ramzan Kadyrov, the repressive, brutal, and authoritarian leader of the Chechen Republic, who had a combined 4 million followers on those accounts. To put it mildly, Kadyrov — who is given free rein to rule the province in exchange for ultimate loyalty to Moscow — is the opposite of a sympathetic figure: He has been credibly accused of a wide range of horrific human rights violations, from the imprisonment and torture of LGBTs to the kidnapping and killing of dissidents.

But none of that dilutes how disturbing and dangerous Facebook's rationale for its deletion of his accounts is. A Facebook spokesperson told the New York Times that the company deleted these accounts not because Kadyrov is a mass murderer and tyrant, but that "Mr. Kadyrov's accounts were deactivated because he had just been added to a United States sanctions list and that the company was legally obligated to act."

Much more at the link with a lot of commentary.
 

Tecnniqe

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Oct 25, 2017
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Can't say its surprising, if anything I figured they'd work with US intelligence services and comply with their guidelines.
 

Hat22

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Oct 28, 2017
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Facebook and Twitter shouldn't be trying to police which views are acceptable. I think the buck should stop at threats/incitement and violence but it seems like everybody has created their own definitions for these terms.

Needless to say, Israelis have virtually free rein to post whatever they want about Palestinians. Calls by Israelis for the killing of Palestinians are commonplace on Facebook, and largely remain undisturbed.

The problem with trying to control expression is that it always leads to selective enforcement.
 

GotMineGood

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Nov 25, 2017
801
Can't complain about the Kadyrov stuff. That fucker deserves much worse.

Btw, what's the rule on wishing death upon a man who heads a regime currently engaging in genocide?
 
OP
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Mr_Black

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Oct 27, 2017
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Facebook needs to fuck off already.

Fucking hate these mega Internet social companies.

I don't have a complaint against the program just that the centralised way of Facebooks operation? Goeballs would cream his pants over what Facebook is.

I think we need a lot more decentralised social apps that have interconnectivity with each other but aren't all reliant on Mark fucking Zuck being in charge.

Having a bunch of borderline "never made it to the prom why won't women love me" sociopaths in charge of such a massive scale sociopolitical operation is fucking scary to me.
 

Galkinator

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Oct 27, 2017
9,111
Warning: Shutting down debate / not posting in good faith
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.
 

Mango Polo

Member
Nov 2, 2017
497
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.
What the fuck is wrong with you? Did you just read the headline and go into hot take mode?
 

Sirolf

Chicken Chaser
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Oct 27, 2017
438
Le Mans , France
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.

Some crappy excuse ??
 

Mr_Black

Banned for having an alt account
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Oct 27, 2017
969
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.

And so FaceBooks attempted compliance with China in order to stifle free speech and outside media is what? Them being progressive and don't blame the company? Or some other crappy excuse? It bespeaks a trend, it's not crappy excuse territory.
 

Yoshimitsu126

The Fallen
Nov 11, 2017
15,058
United States
I might have to share this with my friends who still use facebook. Just so they know the news written by Facebook they see should not just be taken at face value.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,403
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.

Needless to say, Israelis have virtually free rein to post whatever they want about Palestinians. Calls by Israelis for the killing of Palestinians are commonplace on Facebook, and largely remain undisturbed.

As Al Jazeera reported last year, "Inflammatory speech posted in the Hebrew language … has attracted much less attention from the Israeli authorities and Facebook." One study found that "122,000 users directly called for violence with words like 'murder,' 'kill,' or 'burn.' Arabs were the No. 1 recipients of hateful comments." Yet there appears to be little effort by Facebook to censor any of that.

They should, and yet they aren't.
 

Rade

The Fallen
Nov 13, 2017
45
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.

giphy.gif



Didn't take long for the Hasbarists to crawl out.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,868
Greater Vancouver
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.
Boy is this the first hot shit post of 2018
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,872
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.

Great way to start the year
 

Luchashaq

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Nov 4, 2017
4,329
If I didn't use Facebook to get clients I would have deleted mine years ago.

Fuck everyone in a leadership position there.
 

Sweeney Swift

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Oct 25, 2017
14,743
#IStandWithTaylor
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.
You should have stayed in 2017. Last post of yours I'll ever read
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.
So you didn't read the part about Israelis doing this?
 

FormatCompatible

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,071
God, Facebook really is the fucking worst. They (and Twitter too for that matter) will allow literal nazis in their platform but will comply to Israeli and the US governments on discrimination against Palestinian users, truly the bastions of free speech.
Having a bunch of borderline "never made it to the prom why won't women love me" sociopaths in charge of such a massive scale sociopolitical operation is fucking scary to me
Welcome to most of Silicon Valley, a bunch of angry rich /pol/ users.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
The Israel part is a problem since it appears there's no one on the Palestinian side to make the same requests regarding problem posts going the other direction.

But the US part is pure clickbait. If someone's prohibited from doing business w/ US entities, yes, that includes Facebook and Instagram too.
 

Johnny Blaze

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Oct 29, 2017
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User was Warned: Attacking another user, Anti-Semitism
Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.
We have a JIDF troll here.

Obviously fuck Israel for this.
 
OP
OP

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But the US part is pure clickbait. If someone's prohibited from doing business w/ US entities, yes, that includes Facebook and Instagram too.
I agree it's not as severe, although I'd argue this doesn't make it clickbait as clear cut as you see it. It just states the possibility of malpractice in the future regarding the US government and the fact that Facebook didn't react (just how they don't react in any case) until the US government told them to do it is the actual story of this.
This piece doesn't only criticize these governments, it also heavily illustrates Facebook's passivity towards hate speech in general.
 

Robin

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Oct 25, 2017
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Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.

Going by the article, this appears to be a pretty reasonable concern. There's no need to shut down discussion before it's even begun.
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I agree it's not as severe, although I'd argue this doesn't make it clickbait as clear cut as you see it. It just states the possibility of malpractice in the future regarding the US government and the fact that Facebook didn't react (just how they don't react in any case) until the US government told them to do it is the actual story of this.
This piece doesn't only criticize these governments, it also heavily illustrates Facebook's passivity towards hate speech in general.
It's clickbait. Sanctions are sanctions are sanctions, and calling them "censorship" is ridiculous. But of course that's what they do, because they're The Intercept.
 
OP
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It's clickbait. Sanctions are sanctions are sanctions, and calling them "censorship" is ridiculous. But of course that's what they do, because they're The Intercept.
Would Facebook react if it's not the US government tho? Them being an US company doesn't really strengthen your point in the big picture.

I don't really understand what you're trying to do here...it's almost like you want to dismiss the credibility of the article through concentrating your energy on this part you obviously didn't like.
 

Kirblar

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30,744
Would Facebook react if it's not the US government tho? Them being an US company doesn't really strengthen your point in the big picture.

I don't really understand what you're trying to do here...it's almost like you want to dismiss the credibility of the article through concentrating your energy on this part you obviously didn't like.
I'm pointing out the bad part because taking The Intercept at face value as a neutral news source is a very bad idea. They have an agenda, and presentation like this isn't an accident.
 

Dingens

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they also closed down quite a few critical left-leaning groups, almost immediately after the new right-wing government took office last year. go figure
It only reinforces my belief that never signing up and becoming one of their products was the right decision
 

Lidl

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Dec 12, 2017
2,568
The Israel part is a problem since it appears there's no one on the Palestinian side to make the same requests regarding problem posts going the other direction.

But the US part is pure clickbait. If someone's prohibited from doing business w/ US entities, yes, that includes Facebook and Instagram too.
Pretty much this.
Facebook wouldn't lift a finger against fake news and hate speech until governments threatened them with fines.

If for instance the Arab league put resources into an organization that monitors and censors Israeli and Hebrew content and threatened Facebook with fines in case of noncompliance I am sure Facebook would swiftly enact the same sort of censorship.
 

theDream

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Oct 27, 2017
262
It's almost comical how evil Israel is.

Also the only country in the world that is enthusiatically arming the Burma genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Anyone who uses their social media accounts to promote violence, terrorism, death threats, etc deserves to have their account deleted, regardless of where they're from. Knowing Era this will turn into another anti Israel thread because of "poor Palestinians having their precious freedom of speech taken away" or some other crappy excuse.

Damn. How on Earth are these posters you'd expect to find on 4chan not being banned on reset?
 
OP
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I'm pointing out the bad part because taking The Intercept at face value as a neutral news source is a very bad idea. They have an agenda, and presentation like this isn't an accident.
Which agenda? If someone makes a claim like that I'd actually expect them to link something - especially in a thread about an article of said publication.

And again: I don't see much wrong in the representation within this article. What do I care if they are an US company? They act worldwide and if they only follow certain governments directions, because of the fear "of being severely fined or even blocked in the country" as it is the case with Israel, I will consider any restrictions as censorships and not "sanctions".
 

BassForever

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Oct 25, 2017
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Facebook and Twitter shouldn't be trying to police which views are acceptable. I think the buck should stop at threats/incitement and violence but it seems like everybody has created their own definitions for these terms.

I'm totally okay if Facebook/Twitter/etc suspend neo-nazi accounts and white supremacist accounts.
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Which agenda? If someone makes a claim like that I'd actually expect them to link something - especially in a thread about an article of said publication.

And again: I don't see much wrong in the representation within this article. What do I care if they are an US company? They act worldwide and if they only follow certain governments directions, because of the fear "of being severely fined or even blocked in the country" as it is the case with Israel, I will consider any restrictions as censorships and not "sanctions".
Seen Greenwald's twitter account lately?

They are a US company prohibited from doing business dealings with people sanctioned in this type of manner. And yes, this includes Facebook and Instagram accounts. I'm sure there's a Russian equivalent this piece of crap can use instead.

They are a worldwide country, which is why they're censored in China, have to ban Nazi stuff in Germany, etc. The world is not some anarcho-libertarian paradise. You may not care but those countries sure do.
 

Hat22

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Oct 28, 2017
1,652
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I'm totally okay if Facebook/Twitter/etc suspend neo-nazi accounts and white supremacist accounts.

Believe that if you wish but consider the definition of those terms. I see them thrown around very liberally.

Conservatives have been calling all criticism of the Israel and extremist-Judaism anti-semitic and have been using that label to shut people down. The same can happen with any label.

I think people should be allowed to "give themselves the rope" when it comes to their expression. The recent implosion of the Skeptic Community™ is a good example of this.
 
OP
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Seen Greenwald's twitter account lately?
Watched his last 5 tweets right now. Erm...I like what I see?
This one is maybe a bit over the top:

His reading is not that unrealistic tho...having a strong opinion about something doesn't warrant the way you're criticizing him, which is why I'll wait until you show me some "worrying" tweets of his I won't bother seeking out, because he actually tweets A LOT.

They are a US company prohibited from doing business dealings with people sanctioned in this type of manner. And yes, this includes Facebook and Instagram accounts. I'm sure there's a Russian equivalent this piece of crap can use instead.

They are a worldwide country, which is why they're censored in China, have to ban Nazi stuff in Germany, etc. The world is not some anarcho-libertarian paradise. You may not care but those countries sure do.
This is not about Kadyrov, it's merely about the implications of following directions of certain countries, which is
1. selective in nature and
2. a fucking bad look for Facebook as such,
because they don't fucking care about anything as long as they're not threatened with fines and such.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Watched his last 5 tweets right now. Erm...I like what I see?
This one is maybe a bit over the top:

His reading is not that unrealistic tho...having a strong opinion about something doesn't warrant the way you're criticizing him, which is why I'll wait until you show me some "worrying" tweets of his I won't bother seeking out, because he actually tweets A LOT.

This is not about Kadyrov, it's merely about the implications of following directions of certain countries, which is
1. selective in nature and
2. a fucking bad look for Facebook as such,
because they don't fucking care about anything as long as they're not threatened with fines and such.

Just ctrl-f "Russia" and watch for the post upon post of "whataboutism" defenses of Russia's interference in the US election.

Yes, any country can set the terms of what they want to be permissible on Facebook. This is not new, this is not unusual, and it is not a problem. Welcome to how laws passed by governments work. It is not a "bad look" for facebook that they're complying with such requests. It's a "muh free speech" argument when no such thing actually exists.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 11262

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Never heard of JIDF before...yeah, that's pretty shitty to use such speak here. We're not talking about consoles in here.
 

Deleted member 2254

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This is partially OT, but I recently had my first 24 hour block on Facebook for publishing a meme with a naked woman with censorship. A page I manage was nearly unpublished as a story we published had the N word in a very specific context (and it was made and published by a black person, for the record). And yet I continuously see almost porn materials circulating freely, torture videos being shared, people wishing death to others or insulting entire races, sexual orientations, etc. with no consequence. Facebook is way too unreliable and dodgy with their policies, and them starting to turn it political is not a good look in such a specific scenario, when fake news networks defaming migrants or gays are perfectly fine. I used to be fairly active on Facebook, still am in some private groups, but it's telling that in 2017 I only published 5 things on my profile.
 

Lidl

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,568
This is not about Kadyrov, it's merely about the implications of following directions of certain countries, which is
1. selective in nature and
2. a fucking bad look for Facebook as such,
because they don't fucking care about anything as long as they're not threatened with fines and such.
It's not just following certain countries directions, it doesn't give a fuck who it censors for. As a state you just need to squeeze them enough to get what you want:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-malta-journalist-joseph-muscat-panama-papers
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/facebook-censorship-atheists-india_us_564975a3e4b045bf3defc4c1
https://www.theverge.com/2014/12/22/7433277/facebook-blocks-alexei-navalny-protest-page-russia-putin
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-38073949
https://www.wsj.com/articles/what-facebook-could-learn-from-chinas-censors-1494514804

So of course this article is clickbait to ride the 'US embassy in Jerusalem' news wave and to fit its general Anti-Western agenda. The article's Israel portion is based on 2 year old news and a 2 year old study.

Edit: Removed a section because in retrospect it seems to be uncalled for.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP

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Just ctrl-f "Russia" and watch for the post upon post of "whataboutism" defenses of Russia's interference in the US election.

Yes, any country can set the terms of what they want to be permissible on Facebook. This is not new, this is not unusual, and it is not a problem. Welcome to how laws passed by governments work. It is not a "bad look" for facebook that they're complying with such requests. It's a "muh free speech" argument when no such thing actually exists.
Saw a couple tweets and retweets regarding Russia and yes, while he seems to have some degree of an agenda I think it's healthy to have opinions opposed to the majority. I'm myself very critical towards the USA and Russia as superpowers, which is why don't necessarily disagree with him - as selective as they're.

I actually didn't know that there are so many countries who could do that. I'm sorry, should have known better.
You should know that the reason why I followed this discussion with you has nothing to do with "free speech concerns". On the contrary, hate speech should be banned in any case.
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Saw a couple tweets and retweets regarding Russia and yes, while he seems to have some degree of an agenda I think it's healthy to have opinions opposed to the majority. I'm myself very critical towards the USA and Russia as superpowers, which is why don't necessarily disagree with him - as selective as they're.

I actually didn't know that there are so many countries who could do that. I'm sorry, should have known better.
You should know that the reason why I followed this discussion with you has nothing to do with "free speech concerns". On the contrary, hate speech should be banned in any case.
No, the "muh free speech" comment was aimed at the article, not you. :) Any country can do that - you could ban Facebook from having a blue logo when operating in your country if you wanted. Facebook could then operate with the restrictions or not operate at all.
 

Lidl

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Dec 12, 2017
2,568
Dude, you called me a "Jew Illuminati". I won't forget that because you edited it 10 minutes later.
I'm sorry, what? Here's what I original posted:

This is not about Kadyrov, it's merely about the implications of following directions of certain countries, which is
1. selective in nature and
2. a fucking bad look for Facebook as such,
because they don't fucking care about anything as long as they're not threatened with fines and such.
It's not just following certain countries directions, wink wink Jew Illuminati, it doesn't give a fuck who it censors for. As a state you just need to squeeze them enough to get what you want:
 

Kirblar

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Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Dude, you called me a "Jew Illuminati". I won't forget that because you edited it 10 minutes later.
I can see the pre-edit version, that comment was aimed as a criticism against the choice of countries brought up in the article, not at you.

edit: Derail Sorted out via PM, we can all drop it now. :) All further Illuminati references should be addressed to Emperor Gill.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
7,756
I can solve this problem. Remove all of Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, and the like from the internet.

Problem solved.

The world would be a significantly less volatile place.
 

KDR_11k

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
5,235
Aha, meanwhile when EU govts tell them to get rid of hate speech the posts only get region locked?