Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

Mars People · Jan 3, 2018

The male cast of FFXV are defiantly sexualised to a degree.

They are all perfect impossibly beautiful young men at the peak of physical fitness. They all look like they stepped right off a magazine cover.

Or maybe sexualised isn't the word. But just look at them, it's like they were sculpted by some sort of Ancient Greek artisan.

petran79 · Jan 3, 2018

Thanks everyone. Kojima it is, then. Mature game audience indeed

Bricks said:
Ferrari definitely seem a cool dude, but I also had a look at his Facebook page once, and... he really appreciates the female form, let's say.

Italians made quite an impact in illustrated arts, influencing even anime and manga, like Milo Manara. Lets leave it at that. 200 pages already, cant handle anymore weight.

cosmicblizzard · Jan 3, 2018

I get what Bazztek is saying with the strawman in that video by mentioning the cognitive dissonance that comes with the "it's historically accurate" and "that's just the way the world is" response because it's something that goes both ways, which is why that one image meme with the guy choosing between two buttons and sweating is flawed.

But that seems to be a secondary point of the video anyway, so idk.

ImNotAFroot · Jan 3, 2018

CreamyGoodness said:
I'm amazed at how someone as buff as Gladi has such a flat ass.

Their main demographic would implode in anti sjw anger, same outcome if they would even dare to model actual bulges (with jiggle physics for consistency) for their oh so sexualized male characters.

kaytee · Jan 3, 2018

dan2026 said:
The male cast of FFXV are defiantly sexualised to a degree.

They are all perfect impossibly beautiful young men at the peak of physical fitness. They all look like they stepped right off a magazine cover.

Or maybe sexualised isn't the word. But just look at them, it's like they were sculpted by some sort of Ancient Greek artisan.

They're definitely meant to be attractive. I'm struggling to think of the last time Final Fantasy had a character that wasn't supposed to be attractive, actually. And they've definitely put some mild fanservice costumes in (Gladio's shirtless outfit, the Assassin's Creed outfits which they even lampshade), but I wouldn't say they're objectified. The camera treats them with respect and you're meant to invest in them as people instead of sexual objects.

It's actually a good example in one way. A lot of us in this thread keep talking about how sexy doesn't have to mean objectified. Look at the cast of FFXV! You're right that they're idealized and lots of people find them sexy. And yet they're not objectified. I really don't have problems with female characters who are treated the same way.

The Artisan · Jan 3, 2018

dan2026 said:
The male cast of FFXV are defiantly sexualised to a degree.

They are all perfect impossibly beautiful young men at the peak of physical fitness. They all look like they stepped right off a magazine cover.

Or maybe sexualised isn't the word. But just look at them, it's like they were sculpted by some sort of Ancient Greek artisan.

sexualized isn't the word but I get what you're saying. I don't know the word either but you're saying they were designed as generically handsome

Mars People · Jan 3, 2018

How do you feel about the men in the Yakuza games?
They are always finding an excuse to take their shirts off, with the camera zooming in to show how perfectly chiseled they are.

Is this sexualising?

I honestly don't know.

Vault · Jan 3, 2018

kaytee said:
I'm struggling to think of the last time Final Fantasy had a character that wasn't supposed to be attractive

The Nomura designed ones are all beautiful people, I think 9 is the last one with ugly characters

Ferrs · Jan 3, 2018

There's a world of difference between Gladio "sexualization" and Cindy than I don't know why he keeps popping up. Call me when the camera goes full first person mode in his ass (with visible pant string and some ass check if possible) or bulge.

CannonFodder52 · Jan 3, 2018

dan2026 said:
How do you feel about the men in the Yakuza games?
They are always finding an excuse to take their shirts off, with the camera zooming in to show how perfectly chiseled they are.

Is this sexualising?

I honestly don't know.

I don't believe that's pandering to a female audience, even if some people do enjoy that.

I always viewed that as part of the male power fantasy.

Vault · Jan 3, 2018

dan2026 said:
How do you feel about the men in the Yakuza games?
They are always finding an excuse to take their shirts off, with the camera zooming in to show how perfectly chiseled they are.

Is this sexualising?

I honestly don't know.

That's just to show of their Yakuza Tattoos

RM8 · Jan 3, 2018

The thread is actually progressing, since people are mentioning FF guys as examples of attractive male characters and not freaking Kratos, Zangief, or whatever, lol.

Why on earth did they give the shirtless dude a mullet, though!? :x

Now, as has been mentioned, achieving that for female characters would be great. Attractive, for sure, but generally not dressed like porn parodies, and not having their private parts zoomed in by the camera. That'd be ideal IMHO.

PshycoNinja · Jan 3, 2018

Vault said:
The Nomura designed ones are all beautiful people, I think 9 is the last one with ugly characters

In terms of art style or character design? Beatrix was definitely made to be attractive with a "boob window" and high heels.

CreamyGoodness · Jan 3, 2018

Ferrs said:
There's a world of difference between Gladio "sexualization" and Cindy than I don't know why he keeps popping up. Call me when the camera goes full first person mode in his ass (with visible pant string and some ass check if possible) or bulge.

Shirtless and buff is like the closest thing a lotta people see as a sexualised male character.

Mars People · Jan 3, 2018

RM8 said:
Now, as has been mentioned, achieving that for female characters would be great. Attractive, for sure, but generally not dressed like porn parodies, and not having their private parts zoomed in by the camera. That'd be ideal IMHO.

I do feel like a lot of female characters are like that today. Attractive but not absurdly sexualised. A lot more than 5 or 10 years ago certainly.
That the ship is moving slowly but surely in the right direction.

Also that it's mainly Japan that is the worst offender with bad character designs at this point.

CreamyGoodness · Jan 3, 2018

RM8 said:
The thread is actually progressing, since people are mentioning FF guys as examples of attractive male characters and not freaking Kratos, Zangief, or whatever, lol.

Why on earth did they give the shirtless dude a mullet, though!? :x

He's got a chin strap too and my god I just do not like it.

Lime · Jan 3, 2018

psychowave said:
god ikr. and there's always at least one dude who thinks his defense of titty is somehow revolutionary, like we've never heard a straight dude say that he likes titty ever before in our lives when, in fact, so many straight men seem to talk about little else but their love for titty

actually, this is why the "at least yoko taro admits he likes titty!!! what a cool dude!!!!" shit pisses me off. we fucking know straight men like titty. we know. we fucking know. being a straight man and saying that you like titty isn't new, or revolutionary, and doesn't justify objectifying women in your work.

The bar is so incredibly low for cis-men that they are applauded when theyre honest about their love for titty.

"Wow this guy isn't trying to constantly bullshit about his love for titty unlike almost the rest of us, what an incredible guy!"

4Tran · Jan 3, 2018

dan2026 said:
How do you feel about the men in the Yakuza games?
They are always finding an excuse to take their shirts off, with the camera zooming in to show how perfectly chiseled they are.

Is this sexualising?

I honestly don't know.

An easy way to check is to look at how they're posed. This tells us what the designers are trying to achieve with a particular look and is usually a much better indicator of sexualization than costume is by itself.

Dice · Jan 3, 2018

dan2026 said:
The male cast of FFXV are defiantly sexualised to a degree.

They are all perfect impossibly beautiful young men at the peak of physical fitness. They all look like they stepped right off a magazine cover.

Or maybe sexualised isn't the word. But just look at them, it's like they were sculpted by some sort of Ancient Greek artisan.

The men of FFXV are not sexualized. Handsome, occasionally posing in a fancy way, but the camera doesn't hog their bodies, circle or hover around their waist or chests, and scenes or outfits barely emphasize genitals or butt or even Gladios open shirt. If you see it you happen to see it, but it's never the focus of the camera.

Vault · Jan 3, 2018

PshycoNinja said:
In terms of art style or character design? Beatrix was definitely made to be attractive with a "boob window" and high heels.

art style, its the only recent game where not everyone in your party looks like a model

PshycoNinja · Jan 3, 2018

Vault said:
art style, its the only recent game where not everyone in your party looks like a model

Thank you for clarifying. :)

The Artisan · Jan 3, 2018

dan2026 said:
How do you feel about the men in the Yakuza games?
They are always finding an excuse to take their shirts off, with the camera zooming in to show how perfectly chiseled they are.

Is this sexualising?

I honestly don't know.

with the hostess mini-games there definitely is sexualization considering there are softcore porno videos included. This was the case for Kiwami

psychowave · Jan 3, 2018

Lime said:
The bar is so incredibly low for cis-men that they are applauded when theyre honest about their love for titty.

"Wow this guy isn't trying to constantly bullshit about his love for titty unlike almost the rest of us, what an incredible guy!"

lmao ikr. "I love titty and I'm not ashamed to say it!!". so like every other cishet man then?

Xaszatm · Jan 3, 2018

psychowave said:
lmao ikr. "I love titty and I'm not ashamed to say it!!". so like every other cishet man then?

Lime said:
The bar is so incredibly low for cis-men that they are applauded when theyre honest about their love for titty.

"Wow this guy isn't trying to constantly bullshit about his love for titty unlike almost the rest of us, what an incredible guy!"

The bar is so low, it's 12 feet under the ground...and yet people are still trying to find ways to go under it.

Dary · Jan 3, 2018

A shirtless Gladio bends over to wash the the Regalia's windscreen. Ignis, slouched in the driver's seat, drifts his gaze up his companion's body, the camera following suit.
"I think," he says, eyes absorbed in Gladio's rhythmic motions, "I've just come up with a new recipe."
Gladio grins. "Want me to taste test for ya?"

*men everywhere feel immensely uncomfortable*

cosmicblizzard · Jan 3, 2018

Dary said:
A shirtless Gladio bends over to wash the the Regalia's windscreen. Ignis, slouched in the driver's seat, drifts his gaze up his companion's body, the camera following suit.
"I think," he says, eyes absorbed in Gladio's rhythmic motions, "I've just come up with a new recipe."
Gladio grins. "Want me to taste test for ya?"

*men everywhere feel immensely uncomfortable*

That would move FFXV up my backlog. It's exactly what I want with equal objectification, though I'd probably go even farther.

Tfritz · Jan 3, 2018

Dary said:
A shirtless Gladio bends over to wash the the Regalia's windscreen. Ignis, slouched in the driver's seat, drifts his gaze up his companion's body, the camera following suit.
"I think," he says, eyes absorbed in Gladio's rhythmic motions, "I've just come up with a new recipe."
Gladio grins. "Want me to taste test for ya?"

*men everywhere feel immensely uncomfortable*

It would be interesting to see a model swap for Gladio and Cindy, like the ones people did for Quiet in MGS5.

empty feat · Jan 3, 2018

192 pages and we're still getting Gladio as an example of "sexualised man".

God bless some of your perseverance.

A man could be portrayed in the most sexualised manner you've ever seen, revealing clothing, bulge physics, every conversation with him has his perfectly sculpted butt covering half shot. It still would not be comparable, since it would be exceptional to the norm, not be the norm.

kaytee · Jan 3, 2018

cosmicblizzard said:
That would move FFXV up my backlog. It's exactly what I want with equal objectification, though I'd probably go even farther.

I get you more now when you say we won't see eye to eye, because I can't understand why you'd want that in anything but a porn game.

(No hate, Dary :) I laughed.)

RPGamer · Jan 3, 2018

The Artisan said:
sexualized isn't the word but I get what you're saying. I don't know the word either but you're saying they were designed as generically handsome

I did read sometime that Final Fantasy designs of male characters are inspired by young japanese male hostesses, regarding hair, body and outfits and that it has big female fanbase that it caters to.

The Artisan · Jan 3, 2018

RPGamer said:
I did read sometime that Final Fantasy designs of male characters are inspired by young japanese male hostesses, regarding hair, body and outfits and that it has big female fanbase that it caters to.

even then though I think when we talk about sexualization it usually pertains to females.

psychowave · Jan 3, 2018

Dary said:
A shirtless Gladio bends over to wash the the Regalia's windscreen. Ignis, slouched in the driver's seat, drifts his gaze up his companion's body, the camera following suit.
"I think," he says, eyes absorbed in Gladio's rhythmic motions, "I've just come up with a new recipe."
Gladio grins. "Want me to taste test for ya?"

*men everywhere feel immensely uncomfortable*

.............. keep going

Dary · Jan 3, 2018

psychowave said:
.............. keep going

That's what Ignis said.

Mezentine · Jan 3, 2018

empty feat said:
192 pages and we're still getting Gladio as an example of "sexualised man".

God bless some of your perseverance.

A man could be portrayed in the most sexualised manner you've ever seen, revealing clothing, bulge physics, every conversation with him has his perfectly sculpted butt covering half shot. It still would not be comparable, since it would be exceptional to the norm, not be the norm.

Well and that's sort of the ultimate reason why any of this matters, and the reason why you'll never """fix""" this by just including more sexualized men, right? The way that pretty nearly every society on the face of the planet, certainly those that widely consume video games as entertainment are structured, the real life power relationships between men and women are such that encouraging women to evaluate men based on sex appeal and normalizing the idea that being eye candy is an important function of being a man fundamentally does not have the same consequences as training men to evaluate women based on sex appeal does.

Xaszatm · Jan 3, 2018

psychowave said:
.............. keep going

...let's see if someone who has no idea how attraction works can do this...

Gladio goes to wipe the sweat off his brow, the soapy, wet cloth dropping glistening droplets of water of his heaving, sweaty chest. Already wet with perspiration, the camera follows a single stream of water-sweat drip down towards the center of his chest, pass each of his hard, firm abs, then go down into his low cut pants. The camera cuts back up to Gladio's chest, which is heaving heavily and getting closer. Suddenly, he is right over the camera, smiling a smile that will melt that hearts of a thousand glaciers, eyes glistening with silent mischef, his tongue licking across his perfect teeth. "So," he says, getting ever closer, "how about that taste test?"

...yeah, sorry, I have no idea what I'm writing.

a harmless rabbit · Jan 3, 2018

I think I want more of whatever the hell is happening right now, but probably not in a Final Fantasy game.

Turin · Jan 3, 2018

Dary said:
A shirtless Gladio bends over to wash the the Regalia's windscreen. Ignis, slouched in the driver's seat, drifts his gaze up his companion's body, the camera following suit.
"I think," he says, eyes absorbed in Gladio's rhythmic motions, "I've just come up with a new recipe."
Gladio grins. "Want me to taste test for ya?"

*men everywhere feel immensely uncomfortable*

Xaszatm said:
...let's see if someone who has no idea how attraction works can do this...

Gladio goes to wipe the sweat off his brow, the soapy, wet cloth dropping glistening droplets of water of his heaving, sweaty chest. Already wet with perspiration, the camera follows a single stream of water-sweat drip down towards the center of his chest, pass each of his hard, firm abs, then go down into his low cut pants. The camera cuts back up to Gladio's chest, which is heaving heavily and getting closer. Suddenly, he is right over the camera, smiling a smile that will melt that hearts of a thousand glaciers, eyes glistening with silent mischef, his tongue licking across his perfect teeth. "So," he says, getting ever closer, "how about that taste test?"

...yeah, sorry, I have no idea what I'm writing.

cosmicblizzard · Jan 3, 2018

kaytee said:
I get you more now when you say we won't see eye to eye, because I can't understand why you'd want that in anything but a porn game.

(No hate, Dary :) I laughed.)

I think a big part of the dissonance comes from the fact I find it fun rather than sexy or arousing. I also place a big focus on contradictory aspects of humans in general in my interpretations of fictional works, which is why I often (not always) find the seemingly demeaning camerawork justified as a sort of extension of the characters rather than a creepo third party.

kaytee · Jan 3, 2018

All right, fess up, what are all your usernames on AO3.

Mezentine · Jan 3, 2018

cosmicblizzard said:
I think a big part of the dissonance comes from the fact I find it fun rather than sexy or arousing. I also place a big focus on contradictory aspects of humans in general in my interpretations of fictional works, which is why I often (not always) find the seemingly demeaning camerawork justified as a sort of extension of the characters rather than a creepo third party.

Can you explain what you find fun about it, and what you feel you would be losing if different creative choices that didn't make other people uncomfortable were changed?

Weltall Zero · Jan 3, 2018

Valkyr1983 said:
Your wrong, atleast in my case

I'd be more than happy for quiet to default to her xof suit and make her current default optional. As long as its still an option

I'd also be fine with every single fighting game having safer default costumes asking as the sexualized ones are always unlockable

Photo mode thing is fine too, I enjoy using photo modes in most games

I said "most", but of course without a survey we can't know how right or wrong I'm in that appreciation. While we're assuming, I don't think most fans of sexualization probably wouldn't hang out for long in a thread against sexualization (you may take that as a compliment).

Which is a shame, because if everyone else thought like you, we could have normal default costumes with the option for skimpy costumes and literally everyone would be happy. :/

Lime said:
The bar is so incredibly low for cis-men that they are applauded when theyre honest about their love for titty.

Kojima lowered that bar so much with his "words and deeds" bullshit that people now need specialized mining equipment to have a chance to find it.

empty feat · Jan 3, 2018

Mezentine said:
Well and that's sort of the ultimate reason why any of this matters, and the reason why you'll never """fix""" this by just including more sexualized men, right? The way that pretty nearly every society on the face of the planet, certainly those that widely consume video games as entertainment are structured, the real life power relationships between men and women are such that encouraging women to evaluate men based on sex appeal and normalizing the idea that being eye candy is an important function of being a man fundamentally does not have the same consequences as training men to evaluate women based on sex appeal does.

I don't think any right-minded people think the way to improve the situation is to counter with a wave of objectified men (although the side effects would probably be quite educational for some).

So many men just seem to be blind to the idea that this is larger than that one character you're defending because it turns you on. The positive female character designs thread or whatever it was called felt like this since a list of well intentioned designs seems to be a counter to a whole derogative society.

cosmicblizzard · Jan 3, 2018

Mezentine said:
Can you explain what you find fun about it, and what you feel you would be losing if different creative choices that didn't make other people uncomfortable were changed?

Depends on the work. In general, I'm a lot more likely to enjoy something that's over the top, which is why Gurren Lagann is pretty much my favorite fictional work ever. It takes into account standard human behavior and pushes it to unbelievable edges to say something profound. It's the same way with a lot of sexualization, at least the way I view it. I haven't played MGSV, but what I've seen of Quiet and the camerawork is so over the top that I can't help but smile, which is pretty in line with how I view Kojima works in general. I won't judge anyone if they went further than I do and actually buy the "breathes through her skin" excuse as some valid justification, but I don't feel that way. It also has the added benefit of all those mods. My favorite is Kojima and Norman Reedus in the rain.

Not to say more subdued examples with actual valid justification don't exist imo. Kaine is pretty much perfect on that front the way I see it, and while 2B is less so, she's still a good example. Bayonetta is the best of both worlds by being both over the top and having valid justification. And while pretty much everyone will disagree with me, I've given my views on it with a certain Danganronpa AE character.

As for what I'd lose if that was different, just another aspect of gaming I find fun. Not the end of the world, but not something I would campaign for. I instead focus on wanting more for everyone. More games with objectification/sexualization of men, more games with no objectification/sexualization at all, more games with objectification/sexualization of both genders, all in both mainstream and niche spaces. I will praise the progressive games I enjoy that those put off by the current climate would as well like Life is Strange and encourage the development of more of that, even those that I'm not too fond of like Night in the Woods. Parity should be the endgame imo, not removal.

Xaszatm · Jan 3, 2018

kaytee said:
All right, fess up, what are all your usernames on AO3.

I use the same username across everything online. I have nothing to hide. Seals vault behind me

Trojita · Jan 3, 2018

A big part of the problem and why it is prevalent in gaming is because of the percentage that it happens. Gaming has been marketed and catered towards males since the NES came out. In the west this started when Nintendo had to make a decision where to put their product in a toy store, and they chose the male section. Advertising and marketing followed suit. Before Nintendo's decision, games were heavily marketed as bigender and family oriented. Sexualization, and more importantly objectification, became standard as a marketing tool. Women understand, but at the same time might not fully grasp, just how much testosterone in the body affects thoughts and choices for Men.

The important distinction here is objectification. Books/Novels have a large assortment of objectification and sexualization, many that cater to women. There are A LOT of books out there, unlike games which are expensive and generally require team labor. While there might be a lot of erotic novels for women that objectify men, they are splash in the ocean compared to the total amount of books released for reading consumption. Objectification of women in games is more prevalent, for reasons stated about focused marketing to males and the limited amount of titles that are released. This is what women are exasperated about.

Now if things cooled down with less objectification of women in games, then if 1 out of 50 games has sexualized women as a selling point, then it should be allowed to exist. Disagreement would be prudish. The problem is the uneven objection of one sex/gender. It's why women feel uncomfortable entering a hobby which a decent amount of guys identify as a sexually charged hobby.

Glaadio is brought up because he is a rare example of male objectification. An example of similar objectification in a book would be the male characters in the Twilight books. Another game example is Otome games, which aren't nearly as prevalent as bishoujo games. Even Vaan was designed to be appealing to teenage girls in Japan (what a misfire on that design in general).

I realized most of this writing was under the point of view of heterosexuals. I haven't forgotten about my gay brothers and sisters. There are a lot of women out there that love sexualized female forms in media. There's a lot of gay guys that would like to see more sexualized men in games, which there is a severe lack of.

Kapus · Jan 3, 2018

Dary said:
That's what Ignis said.

I laughed

4Tran · Jan 3, 2018

Trojita said:
A big part of the problem and why it is prevalent in gaming is because of the percentage that it happens. Gaming has been marketed and catered towards males since the NES came out. In the west this started when Nintendo had to make a decision where to put their product in a toy store, and they chose the male section. Advertising and marketing followed suit. Before Nintendo's decision, games were heavily marketed as bigender and family oriented. Sexualization, and more importantly objectification, became standard as a marketing tool. Women understand, but at the same time might not fully grasp, just how much testosterone in the body affects thoughts and choices for Men.

The important distinction here is objectification. Books/Novels have a large assortment of objectification and sexualization, many that cater to women. There are A LOT of books out there, unlike games which are expensive and generally require team labor. While there might be a lot of erotic novels for women that objectify men, they are splash in the ocean compared to the total amount of books released for reading consumption. Objectification of women in games is more prevalent, for reasons stated about focused marketing to males and the limited amount of titles that are released. This is what women are exasperated about.

Now if things cooled down with less objectification of women in games, then if 1 out of 50 games has sexualized women as a selling point, then it should be allowed to exist. Disagreement would be prudish. The problem is the uneven objection of one sex/gender. It's why women feel uncomfortable entering a hobby which a decent amount of guys identify as a sexually charged hobby.

Two more points. The first is that games, especially big ones, are a lot more visible than books are in general. Only the most famous books ever get discussed in the general public, and among these objectification is relatively less common. And being a non-visual medium also helps to soften the impact.

Next, literary criticism has been a thing for a billion years. If a writer puts misogynistic or racist material in their books, it gets noticed and people will be vocal about it. This same level of criticism is at its infancy with games, and it sees a lot more opposition from vocal fans.

psychowave · Jan 3, 2018

Xaszatm said:
...let's see if someone who has no idea how attraction works can do this...

Gladio goes to wipe the sweat off his brow, the soapy, wet cloth dropping glistening droplets of water of his heaving, sweaty chest. Already wet with perspiration, the camera follows a single stream of water-sweat drip down towards the center of his chest, pass each of his hard, firm abs, then go down into his low cut pants. The camera cuts back up to Gladio's chest, which is heaving heavily and getting closer. Suddenly, he is right over the camera, smiling a smile that will melt that hearts of a thousand glaciers, eyes glistening with silent mischef, his tongue licking across his perfect teeth. "So," he says, getting ever closer, "how about that taste test?"

...yeah, sorry, I have no idea what I'm writing.

O-OH MY

empty feat · Jan 3, 2018

Trojita said:
A big part of the problem and why it is prevalent in gaming is because of the percentage that it happens. Gaming has been marketed and catered towards males since the NES came out. In the west this started when Nintendo had to make a decision where to put their product in a toy store, and they chose the male section. Advertising and marketing followed suit. Before Nintendo's decision, games were heavily marketed as bigender and family oriented. Sexualization, and more importantly objectification, became standard as a marketing tool. Women understand, but at the same time might not fully grasp, just how much testosterone in the body affects thoughts and choices for Men.

The important distinction here is objectification. Books/Novels have a large assortment of objectification and sexualization, many that cater to women. There are A LOT of books out there, unlike games which are expensive and generally require team labor. While there might be a lot of erotic novels for women that objectify men, they are splash in the ocean compared to the total amount of books released for reading consumption. Objectification of women in games is more prevalent, for reasons stated about focused marketing to males and the limited amount of titles that are released. This is what women are exasperated about.

Now if things cooled down with less objectification of women in games, then if 1 out of 50 games has sexualized women as a selling point, then it should be allowed to exist. Disagreement would be prudish. The problem is the uneven objection of one sex/gender. It's why women feel uncomfortable entering a hobby which a decent amount of guys identify as a sexually charged hobby.

Glaadio is brought up because he is a rare example of male objectification. An example of similar objectification in a book would be the male characters in the Twilight books. Another game example is Otome games, which aren't nearly as prevalent as bishoujo games. Even Vaan was designed to be appealing to teenage girls in Japan (what a misfire on that design in general).

I realized most of this writing was under the point of view of heterosexuals. I haven't forgotten about my gay brothers and sisters. There are a lot of women out there that love sexualized female forms in media. There's a lot of gay guys that would like to see more sexualized men in games, which there is a severe lack of.

But, to the best of my memory, Gladio is never objectified. He's attractive, but that's as far as it goes.

Vaan, whether he was designed to be sexy or not, was never objectified.

Sexualised designs are not inherently bad. It's how that ties in with the characterisation and whether being a sexy mannequin is what defines them.

I don't think there needs to be a niche of objectified women or men since the genre itself has damaging consequences and you can have sexy characters and just not be creepy about it. But as a het man I'm really not qualified to decide where people who identify otherwise draw the line.

Edit. Changed wording. Not all sexualised designs are fine.

Mezentine · Jan 3, 2018

empty feat said:
Sexualised designs are fine. It's how that ties in with the characterisation and whether being a sexy mannequin is what defines them.

I would say that sexualized designs are not inherently a problem.

Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

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