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Medalion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,203
I had heard rumors that after ep 6... is when the show started bringing in "Trek" fan experts to advise on episodes to make the show feel more Trek like... as this ep 7, it would explain why more people potentially liked it.

Of course I've been told my source is full of shit but it would explain the drastic shift so far.
 

O Vet

Member
Oct 30, 2017
500
I don't think so. Mudd doesn't forget what happened in previous loops, so it feels like they really only had the one loop to get the plan right.

Ah yes that's true tho. Then it is a quick turnaround for everyone, in previous loops they could only just convince one person in the time that they had (30 minutes or something?)
But maybe in the Trek universe a timeloop is something that isn't that weird.
 

Muzzymate

Member
Oct 27, 2017
236
Ohio
This past episode is by far my favorite of the series so far. Felt like a perfect blend of old-Trek with modern-TV sensibilities. Loved all the character's performances, especially Rainn Wilson's. Fantastic! Preview's for next episode look nice. Can't wait till Sunday.
 

Adnor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,957
So I have questions about the vulcans, I've never seen anything Star Trek before, but are they magic?

A friend of mine who likes ST always told me how much more realistic and true sci-fi it was compared to Star Wars, but that episode with Michael's (and Spock?) dad was much more fantasy than I expected.
 

Proteus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,981
Toronto
So I have questions about the vulcans, I've never seen anything Star Trek before, but are they magic?

A friend of mine who likes ST always told me how much more realistic and true sci-fi it was compared to Star Wars, but that episode with Michael's (and Spock?) dad was much more fantasy than I expected.
It's meant to be science even if it doesn't have any grounding in reality.
 

Backlogger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
451
Las Vegas
Last night's episode definitely felt more "trekkie" to me. I always enjoy a good time loop episode but the preview for next week seems to to back to the war arch and looks to be another great episode.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,016
So I have questions about the vulcans, I've never seen anything Star Trek before, but are they magic?

A friend of mine who likes ST always told me how much more realistic and true sci-fi it was compared to Star Wars, but that episode with Michael's (and Spock?) dad was much more fantasy than I expected.

The base concept comes from the movies, which established that vulcans have a 'Katra' which can be passed from one person to another. One could see it as an extension of their mind melding abilities, outright imprinting their thoughts rather than touch based telepathy, and in this instance, the show extrapolated that 'portions' of such could still communicate with each other.

Truthfully though, Trek has a longstanding flirtation with Clarke's Third Law - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.", though substitute 'technology' with 'science'. Hence beings like the Q or the Prophets - sure, from our perspective they're incomprehensible, godlike beings, but from their perspective they just understand the universe better than we do.
 
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KarmaCow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,154
TOS era Star Trek was pretty wacky. They weren't really concerned with consistency and it was more about using the "science" part of scifi to justify the starting point for the weird shit they wanted to try in their episodes. I'd say that's true scifi though, probably moreso than the reams of technobabble in the 90s Trek shows.
 

Adnor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,957
Gotcha, in-universe is science, I understand, thanks.

I have no problem with magic-science that we don't understand but the characters do, it's just that my friend told me about it differently.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,016
The biggest thing that makes Trek more 'realistic' is that the characters will try and observe what's happening, make sense of it in their terms. Hence you get shit like luck - an abstract concept - being something that can get 'reversed' in universe because of its associations to some spirals or whatever. I've actually got a book by one of the advisers for the franchise's science, and it's kinda of interesting how he had to basically bullshit his way through giving the writers what they wanted vs what he knew. In some instances, this resulted in an episode being outright wrong - like with the aforementioned example of the spirals, where whatever those were (remembering this off the top of my head), they only go one way in real life and cannot be reversed.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,647
So I have questions about the vulcans, I've never seen anything Star Trek before, but are they magic?

A friend of mine who likes ST always told me how much more realistic and true sci-fi it was compared to Star Wars, but that episode with Michael's (and Spock?) dad was much more fantasy than I expected.
Of course there are always going to be elements of fantasy in scifi, and it's generally true that Trek is much harder scifi than Wars. It tries to maintain an internal logic where everything has a reasonable scientific explanation even if that explanation is outside the current understanding of the characters. That doesn't necessarily mean it's based on our reality, though.

So far I would say that this show pushes a little more into fantasy than usual, however. The mind meld stuff is really stretching the limits of what was previously established and the spore drive is a little extra out there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,568
Of course there are always going to be elements of fantasy in scifi, and it's generally true that Trek is much harder scifi than Wars. It tries to maintain an internal logic where everything has a reasonable scientific explanation even if that explanation is outside the current understanding of the characters. That doesn't necessarily mean it's based on our reality, though.

So far I would say that this show pushes a little more into fantasy than usual, however. The mind meld stuff is really stretching the limits of what was previously established and the spore drive is a little extra out there.
Spore drive is no different than the iconians or the gateway to forever or the borg transwarp conduit.
And the Vulcan connection thing was show in Enterprise with T'Pol and Trip.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,016
The other thing is that the cast of any given Star Trek is, to varying degrees and areas of expertise, basically a bunch of scientists. So even when they come across impossible nonsense, they make some attempt at understanding it, vs just trying to get out of its way.
 

ann3nova.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
Spore drive is no different than the iconians or the gateway to forever or the borg transwarp conduit.
And the Vulcan connection thing was show in Enterprise with T'Pol and Trip.
Those three didn't cause damage/pain to lifeforms whenever they were used. It's weird (and irritating) that Starfleet is overlooking it. That said, it's not a certainty that Lorca has reported the damaging effects to his superiors, but this is a Captain that has the potential to not do that. Which in itself is frustrating. This series is giving me the same sort of vibes I get when watching a Shonda Rimes series (Scandal, etc.), drumming up drama at the expense of logic (especially Trek logic). I don't want to dive too far into this yet, because I'm thinking about starting a thread for the comparison between this series and The Orville, how the two handle similar scenarios in the realm of scifi.

That said, I still like Discovery a lot, and I'm super happy we have a Trek series in 2017. I just hope the hiatus will let the writers regroup a bit and refocus some of the emotional nonsense into more logical actions that bereift the setting the characters inhabit.

Edit: Er...I forgot I don't have thread posting privledges yet. It maybe be awhile. ^_^
 
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Kaitos

Tens across the board!
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
I had heard rumors that after ep 6... is when the show started bringing in "Trek" fan experts to advise on episodes to make the show feel more Trek like... as this ep 7, it would explain why more people potentially liked it.

Of course I've been told my source is full of shit but it would explain the drastic shift so far.
uh, no.
 

Medalion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,203
Right... so them listening to techno disco hip-hop was tripping me up
Don't they only listen to Classical music or Jazz at best
 

EarlGreyHot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,376
I reeeeaaallly liked the latest episode, felt very Trek. We've seen this concept before of course (TNG: Cause and Effect), but I liked how they gave it their own twist. Some light-hearted moments in there too (Tilly is funny), good stuff!

The show is really starting to hit it's stride, I'm happy about that. Was a bit worried in the beginning.
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,256
Yeah, I'm more concerned they don't have a gym!
Food dispenser shames you when you order anything without the correct balance of proteins and carbs so you stay thin naturally lol.

Really not sure why they gave the machines that feature, I have to say.
 

Oleander

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,588
I thought it was a good episode, but I didn't love it. "Lethe" is still the highlight so far for me. This week's episode felt like treading old ground, and while a show being tonally erratic can work in its favour when it's pulled off well, I don't think they were very successful this time.

Though I never cared for Mudd much anyway. Hopefully he'll actually be gone until TOS now, and won't periodically show up like a Q.
 

Effect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,945
Still don't agree with the idea that only now is this show feeling like Star Trek. This show has felt like Star Trek in a LOT of ways already. This episode is just more traditional in its setup because we've seen this type of episode before. That's the familiar part people are connecting with. The show didn't suddenly get flipped on its head with this episode or decide to do things it wasn't already doing. I also think the character development from the previous episodes is also paying off right now. We've gotten to know these characters already and were seeing them interact more and let their guards down with each other. I doubt the reaction would be the same if we didn't have what happen in previous episodes.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,814
I mostly like the episode, but the ending with Mudd essentially getting away, being forced to marry a young rich lady, doesn't seem remotely karmic.
 

Deleted member 25600

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,701
I love a good groundhog day episode of any series.

FMH3H63.jpg
 

Halloumiface

Member
Oct 29, 2017
59
I.... liked that episode, but the ending wasn't as satisfying as it deserved. We don't get the trailer on Netflix UK so I might have to look it up now...

Overall I'm just so happy for this to exist, I hope it's doing well ratings wise.
 

Nollemaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
178
By some weird coincidence I watched the TNG time loop episode from season 5 a couple of days ago. I thought that episode was particularly boring because every instance in the loop felt incredibly long. The Kelsey Grammer guest role as starship captain was probably the only redeeming thing about that episode.

Discovery made it way more exciting by having something new occuring every loop. It is as if they took cues from that old TNG episode.
 

Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,814
Thing is we know that Mudd is destined to survive.
I understand, but there are ways to make Mudd appear to 'suffer' while maintaining continuity.

I can imagine if Stella's dad Baron was more of a 'Red Foreman's type character that the ending would feel better. Someone who would appear to have the resources and talents to keep Mudd at bay for a while. But as is, it just feels like Mudd, who is shown to be super competent, will (canonically) escape immediately.