• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

kaytee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
440
USA
I'm going to push back on the idea that romance novels objectify men. I've read plenty, and I really can't think of any. I can think of some covers that objectify men. There are some with a male torso and no visible head, which is pretty textbook. Those covers are used to sell the book -- not to me since I think they're tacky, but moving on -- and the men in them have no personality, no action that they're performing, no purpose. They're just sitting there flexing their muscles and acting as a sexual billboard. (Also women are sometimes objectified on romance covers too, but I won't go on that tangent.)

I won't say there are no romance novels that do, since I haven't read them all, but it's not standard in the genre at all. Edward Cullen is definitely not objectified in Twilight. Bella finds him attractive and she'll go on about his eyes a lot, but the books go in depth about his own feelings and motivations and character. I know plenty of people dislike the books and think all of the characters are flat, but that's more a function of their opinion of the writing than a disparity between how the female and male characters are written.

I could point you to big name, capital-L literary books by male writers with objectified female characters. The ones who are constantly described by their sexual characteristics and are there for the male main character to respond to sexually and that's pretty much it. Actually, here's a funny McSweeney's piece called "If Women Wrote Men the Way Men Write Women" that illustrates what I'm talking about in a relevant way.

And again, it always comes back around to how prevalent this stuff is. How pervasive it is in society. Mainstream entertainment routinely objectifies women. Ads that most of us see constantly objectify women. It's everywhere to the point many of us don't see it anymore. It has had an enormous effect on how women are treated, meaning the very small amount of male objectification doesn't have the same context or outcome. And to be clear, I'm not arguing for more objectification of anyone.

I think degree matters too. I have trouble equating a guy being shirtless once in an otome game (honestly, those games are usually so tame) with women having their boobs and asses half (or more) exposed and moving so as to best show that off.
 

caff!!!

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,031
I would say that sexualized designs are not inherently a problem.
yeah, the attachment of said sexualization to gaze objectification is so stale and boring that it worsens a game to me. So much potential for character, thrown out the window for cliches and 18-30 demographic "pandering"

...let's see if someone who has no idea how attraction works can do this...

Gladio goes to wipe the sweat off his brow, the soapy, wet cloth dropping glistening droplets of water of his heaving, sweaty chest. Already wet with perspiration, the camera follows a single stream of water-sweat drip down towards the center of his chest, pass each of his hard, firm abs, then go down into his low cut pants. The camera cuts back up to Gladio's chest, which is heaving heavily and getting closer. Suddenly, he is right over the camera, smiling a smile that will melt that hearts of a thousand glaciers, eyes glistening with silent mischef, his tongue licking across his perfect teeth. "So," he says, getting ever closer, "how about that taste test?"

...yeah, sorry, I have no idea what I'm writing.
Gladio and Ignis have had the finest plate of spaghetti they ever had, but only one noodle remains. They both grab the noodle with their forks and begin to slurp it down as they lean closer and closer to each other. (focus camera on their lips) As the noodle disappears, their lips meet in a passionate, tongues out kiss. Two shirtless men embracing each other on a cool summer night, under the stars.

"A delicious meal, yes?" Ignis replies, blushing with just enough saliva on the lips to gleam off the campfire.
 
Last edited:

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
The bar is so incredibly low for cis-men that they are applauded when theyre honest about their love for titty.

"Wow this guy isn't trying to constantly bullshit about his love for titty unlike almost the rest of us, what an incredible guy!"

lmao ikr. "I love titty and I'm not ashamed to say it!!". so like every other cishet man then?

I don't want to sound antagonistic with a #notallcishetmen or anything but as a cishet man myself I feel I must protest as I just don't feel the same as a lot of the people coming in defending these designs.

Gotta confess though. This thread has made me reexamine my sexuality a bit. I've said previously that I've always felt like this weird outcast because I'm just not the type of guy to get worked up over women in a physical sense. If I hear someone say something like "check out those BOOBS" I usually just shrug. I think, "Well, they're not WRONG, they're nice, but...meh, don't see it as a big deal.". Don't get me started on a lot of fan art out there that think the bigger breasts are the better. I mean I'll have my moments where I might see a really curvy woman or someone with really nice legs and remark to myself how nice she looks and how envious I am toward whoever she's with. So I know I'm not asexual. I always thought, maybe I just... Know how to be well behaved? I was raised right? Seeing the guys defend the sexualized designs more and more in this thread, just makes me think, maybe it's more than that with me?

When it comes to games and female characters I tend to look at physical attractiveness LAST. I mean to use Urbosa as an example, my first thought seeing her in game was "Wow, she's got this striking voice that matches her physique quite well... Man, she's strong, and confident. What a woman! :D ...She really has a nice body now that I look at her."

This thread was so nice to see, despite being a guy, because I feel the same way about a lot of the same issues and characters brought up in this thread. For me, seeing a character like Pyra or Cindy is like having a guy next to me going, "Man those are some nice boobs aren't they? Don't you just want to fuck her?" It seems like a lot of the guys we get in this thread would go "Hell yeah! She's hot. I mean I'm a guy, sooo" while I'm just the type to go "Umm sure, but I just want to play the game thanks."

I'm sorry if I derailed, just had to rant a little. I really am thankful for this thread even if that's not what Persephone exactly had in mind when making it.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
I don't want to sound antagonistic with a #notallcishetmen or anything but as a cishet man myself I feel I must protest as I just don't feel the same as a lot of the people coming in defending these designs.
You don't have to be defensive in the first place. If you don't share the same sentiments as those posted, then you're off the hook. While it might say "all cis-men", it's just a bit of imprecise language that's adopted largely out of frustration, and there are plenty of cis-men who it wasn't directed towards in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Gotta confess though. This thread has made me reexamine my sexuality a bit. I've said previously that I've always felt like this weird outcast because I'm just not the type of guy to get worked up over women in a physical sense. If I hear someone say something like "check out those BOOBS" I usually just shrug.

I'm pretty much exactly the same way, at least on the inside. Or rather, my mindset in situations like those would be "hey this is fun, everyone's yelling and being happy" while responding with a "yeah dude, boobs!" and hi-fiving and stuff. But I never really "got" the attraction element. In fact, I don't think I've ever actually found anyone attractive, well, ever... Friends would always be gushing over how hot they found Jessica Alba or other people and I'm just like saitamaok.gif. I'm certainly not asexual, but there was a lot of "is something wrong with me" thoughts growing up and even now to some extent.
 

PshycoNinja

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
3,224
Los Angeles
I've said previously that I've always felt like this weird outcast because I'm just not the type of guy to get worked up over women in a physical sense. If I hear someone say something like "check out those BOOBS" I usually just shrug. I think, "Well, they're not WRONG, they're nice, but...meh, don't see it as a big deal.". Don't get me started on a lot of fan art out there that think the bigger breasts are the better. I mean I'll have my moments where I might see a really curvy woman or someone with really nice legs and remark to myself how nice she looks and how envious I am toward whoever she's with. So I know I'm not asexual. I always thought, maybe I just... Know how to be well behaved? I was raised right?

When it comes to games and female characters I tend to look at physical attractiveness LAST. I mean to use Urbosa as an example, my first thought seeing her in game was "Wow, she's got this striking voice that matches her physique quite well... Man, she's strong, and confident. What a woman! :D ...She really has a nice body now that I look at her."

This thread was so nice to see, despite being a guy, because I feel the same way about a lot of the same issues and characters brought up in this thread. For me, seeing a character like Pyra or Cindy is like having a guy next to me going, "Man those are some nice boobs aren't they? Don't you just want to fuck her?" It seems like a lot of the guys we get in this thread would go "Hell yeah! She's hot. I mean I'm a guy, sooo" while I'm just the type to go "Umm sure, but I just want to play the game thanks."

I'm sort of the same way, but I attribute it more to my upbringing by my single mom than anything else. It all started at home from how I treated my sisters and my mom and her instilling into me that I should treat all women with respect and respect their choices and decisions.
 
Last edited:

PtM

Banned
Dec 7, 2017
3,582
This thread was so nice to see, despite being a guy, because I feel the same way about a lot of the same issues and characters brought up in this thread. For me, seeing a character like Pyra or Cindy is like having a guy next to me going, "Man those are some nice boobs aren't they? Don't you just want to fuck her?" It seems like a lot of the guys we get in this thread would go "Hell yeah! She's hot. I mean I'm a guy, sooo" while I'm just the type to go "Umm sure, but I just want to play the game thanks."

I'm pretty much exactly the same way, at least on the inside. Or rather, my mindset in situations like those would be "hey this is fun, everyone's yelling and being happy" while responding with a "yeah dude, boobs!" and hi-fiving and stuff. But I never really "got" the attraction element. In fact, I don't think I've ever actually found anyone attractive, well, ever... Friends would always be gushing over how hot they found Jessica Alba or other people and I'm just like saitamaok.gif. I'm certainly not asexual, but there was a lot of "is something wrong with me" thoughts growing up and even now to some extent.

I'm sort of the same way, but I attribute it more to my upbringing by my single mom than anything else. It all started at home from how I treated my sisters and my mom and her instilling into me that I should treat all women with respect and respect their choices and decisions.
Sadly, I'm not that special, just hella insecure and repressed. I normally do and say the dumbest shit.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
You know, you would think that Gladio being the ONLY example people bring up about female gazed male character compared to the countless of male gazed female characters should tell them SOMETHING.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,399
You know, you would think that Gladio being the ONLY example people bring up about female gazed male character compared to the countless of male gazed female characters should tell them SOMETHING.
Gladio is the new Krators

Kratos wasn't even sexualized lol, though many of the female NPCs in his games were e_e
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Gladio is the new Krators

Kratos wasn't even sexualized lol, though many of the female NPCs in his games were e_e

Speaking of which, the only thing I know about GoW is from a clip I saw on a FemFreq video where she shows a scene where you have to solve a puzzle by using a half naked woman to jam a contraption, which lets Kratos go through a door, brutally killing the woman in the process.
 

Sony

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
565
Ask men what features they find hot/sexy in a woman and you'll mostly hear "ass" and "boobs". Emphasize those features in a game character and its sexualized.
Ask women what features they find hot/sexy in a man and you'll mostly hear "abs", "pecs" or "muscles" in general. Emphasize those features in a game and its not sexualized, its the male physique?
Sexualization is not emphasizing the sex organs. I've read a couple of times in this thread that male sexualization would be an emphasis on the crotch bulge. I've never heard any woman answer "crotch bulge" when asked what they find sexy in a man.
 

Reven Wolf

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,563
I'm going to push back on the idea that romance novels objectify men. I've read plenty, and I really can't think of any. I can think of some covers that objectify men. There are some with a male torso and no visible head, which is pretty textbook. Those covers are used to sell the book -- not to me since I think they're tacky, but moving on -- and the men in them have no personality, no action that they're performing, no purpose. They're just sitting there flexing their muscles and acting as a sexual billboard. (Also women are sometimes objectified on romance covers too, but I won't go on that tangent.)

I won't say there are no romance novels that do, since I haven't read them all, but it's not standard in the genre at all. Edward Cullen is definitely not objectified in Twilight. Bella finds him attractive and she'll go on about his eyes a lot, but the books go in depth about his own feelings and motivations and character. I know plenty of people dislike the books and think all of the characters are flat, but that's more a function of their opinion of the writing than a disparity between how the female and male characters are written.

I could point you to big name, capital-L literary books by male writers with objectified female characters. The ones who are constantly described by their sexual characteristics and are there for the male main character to respond to sexually and that's pretty much it. Actually, here's a funny McSweeney's piece called "If Women Wrote Men the Way Men Write Women" that illustrates what I'm talking about in a relevant way.

And again, it always comes back around to how prevalent this stuff is. How pervasive it is in society. Mainstream entertainment routinely objectifies women. Ads that most of us see constantly objectify women. It's everywhere to the point many of us don't see it anymore. It has had an enormous effect on how women are treated, meaning the very small amount of male objectification doesn't have the same context or outcome. And to be clear, I'm not arguing for more objectification of anyone.

I think degree matters too. I have trouble equating a guy being shirtless once in an otome game (honestly, those games are usually so tame) with women having their boobs and asses half (or more) exposed and moving so as to best show that off.
I love reading examples like that because it cracks me up at how accurate it can get.

I remember noticing the difference vividly when I would go through romance novels and started noticing such a trend.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,406
In Ascension he was bondaged and subjected to torture by the Furies. One even fondles his chin
This wasn't an attempt by the devs to sexualize Kratos.

Ask men what features they find hot/sexy in a woman and you'll mostly hear "ass" and "boobs". Emphasize those features in a game character and its sexualized.
Ask women what features they find hot/sexy in a man and you'll mostly hear "abs", "pecs" or "muscles" in general. Emphasize those features in a game and its not sexualized, its the male physique?
Sexualization is not emphasizing the sex organs. I've read a couple of times in this thread that male sexualization would be an emphasis on the crotch bulge. I've never heard any woman answer "crotch bulge" when asked what they find sexy in a man.
Framing and posing matters, one thing you'll notice is despite the fact that tons of men in games are muscular, very rarely do they have something like incredibly clearly defined crotch lines, and way more often than not, the framing and posing is specifically used to emphasize strong and badass they are. Those two things are usually emphasized above all else.
latest

Zangief-Street-Fighters-c.jpg



vs something like this:
69e61e90e4d95899e4f114a51ac76dc9--jacob-black-sexy-guys.jpg
 
Last edited:

Peace

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
978
France
I don't want to sound antagonistic with a #notallcishetmen or anything but as a cishet man myself I feel I must protest as I just don't feel the same as a lot of the people coming in defending these designs.

Gotta confess though. This thread has made me reexamine my sexuality a bit. I've said previously that I've always felt like this weird outcast because I'm just not the type of guy to get worked up over women in a physical sense. If I hear someone say something like "check out those BOOBS" I usually just shrug. I think, "Well, they're not WRONG, they're nice, but...meh, don't see it as a big deal.". Don't get me started on a lot of fan art out there that think the bigger breasts are the better. I mean I'll have my moments where I might see a really curvy woman or someone with really nice legs and remark to myself how nice she looks and how envious I am toward whoever she's with. So I know I'm not asexual. I always thought, maybe I just... Know how to be well behaved? I was raised right? Seeing the guys defend the sexualized designs more and more in this thread, just makes me think, maybe it's more than that with me?

When it comes to games and female characters I tend to look at physical attractiveness LAST. I mean to use Urbosa as an example, my first thought seeing her in game was "Wow, she's got this striking voice that matches her physique quite well... Man, she's strong, and confident. What a woman! :D ...She really has a nice body now that I look at her."

This thread was so nice to see, despite being a guy, because I feel the same way about a lot of the same issues and characters brought up in this thread. For me, seeing a character like Pyra or Cindy is like having a guy next to me going, "Man those are some nice boobs aren't they? Don't you just want to fuck her?" It seems like a lot of the guys we get in this thread would go "Hell yeah! She's hot. I mean I'm a guy, sooo" while I'm just the type to go "Umm sure, but I just want to play the game thanks."

I'm sorry if I derailed, just had to rant a little. I really am thankful for this thread even if that's not what Persephone exactly had in mind when making it.

Most of the time those guys are just playing a role and I'm sure a lot of them are like you inside. For some, being constantly aroused by "boobs" or "butt" is part of the virility they picture, like you have to walk with a constant boner to be a real manly beast. Frankly, it shows more sexual immaturity than virility in my opinion.

If you have sex on regular basis or if you're used to women bodies, it's hard to be aroused at every titty you see all the time, especially in a video-game.

Curves and beautiful girls are my taste, but I'm not always in the mood. I don't need them in everything I play, watch etc.
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
Most of the time those guys are just playing a role and I'm sure a lot of them are like you inside. For some, being constantly aroused by "boobs" or "butt" is part of the virility they picture, like you have to walk with a constant boner to be a real manly beast. Frankly, it shows more sexual immaturity than virility in my opinion.

If you have sex on regular basis or if you're used to women bodies, it's hard to be aroused at every titty you see all the time, especially in a video-game.

Curves and beautiful girls are my taste, but I'm not always in the mood. I don't need them in everything I play, watch etc.

I constantly see this "need" thing mentioned

Has anyone said they "need" sexualization like its some requirement for them to enjoy games?

I've played arguably more non sexualized ones than the opposite this year, or atleast games with heavy pandering

I don't think saying you enjoy or like objectified female designs mean you HAVE to have it. Just if I have an option to play a game with or without (and the game would otherwise be the same) that I enjoy sexualized designs so if course I'd always see it as a bonus?

I think if you actually saw someone say "ugh I'm not gonna play horizon because Aloy isn't in a bikini" you'd have a point, I've never seen that sentiment however, and I know I don't practice it
 

Peace

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
978
France
I constantly see this "need" thing mentioned

Has anyone said they "need" sexualization like its some requirement for them to enjoy games?

If some publishers think they "need" to sexualize characters, it's mostly because they know flesh sells and there is a demand for it. To answer your question, yes, I think it's a requirement for some people, or at least, it helps those people to enjoy the game more if the female characters are in sexy outfit.

I think if you actually saw someone say "ugh I'm not gonna play horizon because Aloy isn't in a bikini" you'd have a point, I've never seen that sentiment however, and I know I don't practice it

Not in those words, but I've already read people skipping on the game because the main character was ugly. I find her ugly too, but that's not the reason I skipped the game for.
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
If some publishers think they "need" to sexualize characters, it's mostly because they know flesh sells and there is a demand for it. To answer your question, yes, I think it's a requirement for some people, or at least, it helps those people to enjoy the game more if the female characters are in sexy outfit.



Not in those words, but I've already read people skipping on the game because the main character was ugly. I find her ugly too, but that's not the reason I skipped the game for.

I think Aloy is attractive. I mean not in your stereotypical videogame kinda way

But yeah Aloy definitely has an attractive face and personality. Also her hair rocks.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,745
I'm suddenly having intense flashbacks to the whole ME: A "SJW pandering" fiasco. Are people really this shallow?
Ugh, that was awful. People kept putting up images of the model for Sara Ryder and saying they deliberately uglfied her - I had to explain a lot the different things you could do with make up! What made it worse was you didn't even have to play that character - you could customise both your character and their twin - and it was mostly guys complaining who likely were going to play a male character anyway. Then of course their was Cora who apparently had a "lesbian" haircut and Peebee who looked like shrek. Spoilers! All these characters still looked attractive! They weren't ugly people at all. But they still weren't considered good enough.
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,562
Aloy isn't ugly but I am not a fan of the artstyle of the game. Would have much preferred it with the more stylized early concept art look
tumblr_omga8ex4c51qa9abso1_1280.png


Have not bought Horizon yet but the art style isn't the reason for it. Just other games I was more interested in. Will pick it up at some point
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,745
I've never really heard of people skipping on a game because the main character is ugly, but I can't say that surprises me at all.
I know a guy who keeps turning up on a BioWare fan forum who refuses to play Dragon Age Inquisition cus all their LIs are "Lesbian/mannish" and he puts up pictures of Cassandra, an LI option for straight men, and one with her face narrowed in photoshop (it looks weirdly stretched) , and overlays them with a skull diagrams that say "male skull" and "female skull" and uses it as "proof". So it does happen.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,419
The English Wilderness
Aloy isn't ugly but I am not a fan of the artstyle of the game. Would have much preferred it with the more stylized early concept art look
tumblr_omga8ex4c51qa9abso1_1280.png


Have not bought Horizon yet but the art style isn't the reason for it. Just other games I was more interested in. Will pick it up at some point

I don't think Loish's style really fits what the game was going for, TBH. I'm also not sure how well it would translate into 3D models.
 

Peace

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
978
France
Aloy isn't ugly but I am not a fan of the artstyle of the game. Would have much preferred it with the more stylized early concept art look
tumblr_omga8ex4c51qa9abso1_1280.png


Have not bought Horizon yet but the art style isn't the reason for it. Just other games I was more interested in. Will pick it up at some point

Same goes for me, I do find her in-game model hard to look at and borderline creepy, but I didn't skip the game because of this, that would be a ridiculous reason. I confirm what I said earlier, I did read people skipping the game because of this, but not on this board or the previous one, it was more members from gamefaqs/reddit/youtube comments and boards like that.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,011
Passing on a game because you don't like how something looks is whatever to me. It's not really odd at all, people pass on games for all kinds of reasons. Plenty of people have done it for Xenoblade 2 for Rex's design alone for example, never mind... everything else.

What will make me consider it as suspect is the language they use when giving their reasoning. Like you guys said, if they're complaining that a character has a lesbian haircut, looks "mannish", or what have you, then yea... Yikes.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,406
Would have much preferred it the more stylized early concept art look
This wouldn't look very good in 3D imho unless they completely overhauled the renderer to look specifically like Lois van Baarle's concept art, (wasn't the only concept artist on the game). Which would have a huge effect on every art asset in the game. Don't think Guerilla ever intended to emulate that look considering the other pieces of artwork made for the game.
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
I'm suddenly having intense flashbacks to the whole ME: A "SJW pandering" fiasco. Are people really this shallow?

Until the patches it was almost impossible to get an attractive character out of the creation tool, it was a legitimate complaint

I'm not referring to the crazy conspiracy stuff either

I chose a female Avatar and yeah, she looked pretty off-putting till the adjusted sliders and fixed eyes, mouth animation

Nothing shallow about wanting a character to look attractive if your gonna spend 30-40+ hours staring at them.
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
Aloy isn't ugly but I am not a fan of the artstyle of the game. Would have much preferred it with the more stylized early concept art look
tumblr_omga8ex4c51qa9abso1_1280.png


Have not bought Horizon yet but the art style isn't the reason for it. Just other games I was more interested in. Will pick it up at some point

Nah, I like how Aloy looks. Her hair in particular, probably my favorite on any female character I've played in a game, just rad

Young Aloy had a weird creepy face quality in some scenes though I will say
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,419
The English Wilderness
Nothing shallow about wanting a character to look attractive if your gonna spend 30-40+ hours staring at them.

Do you take this attitude into real life? "Nothing shallow about wanting attractive friends if you're going to spend 30-40+ years staring at them!"

Also, as far as video games are concerned, you spend most of the time staring at the back of your avatar's head, no?
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,908
JP
Ask men what features they find hot/sexy in a woman and you'll mostly hear "ass" and "boobs". Emphasize those features in a game character and its sexualized.
Ask women what features they find hot/sexy in a man and you'll mostly hear "abs", "pecs" or "muscles" in general. Emphasize those features in a game and its not sexualized, its the male physique?
Sexualization is not emphasizing the sex organs. I've read a couple of times in this thread that male sexualization would be an emphasis on the crotch bulge. I've never heard any woman answer "crotch bulge" when asked what they find sexy in a man.
With female characters, you get the whole package - big, visible boobs and butts, along with good looking bodies and faces, poses, camera angles, "lore" that forces the character to be basically naked, developers literally designing them by pandering to their own fetishes, etc. - female game characters could generally be supermodels if not porn stars.

Male characters are not sexy just because "abs", "muscles".

Abigail-SFV.jpg

Depicted above: not a supermodel.
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
Do you take this attitude into real life? "Nothing shallow about wanting attractive friends if you're going to spend 30-40+ years staring at them!"

Also, as far as video games are concerned, you spend most of the time staring at the back of your avatar's head, no?

That's not a fair comparison, and no that doesn't apply to real life. I have control over the character I'm creating in the game, that's the whole point of offering that freedom. I agree it would be shallow in real life, in a videogame where you are literally being given room to create your own power fantasy / role play character no I don't think it's shallow

Mass effect is an anomaly in that there is a lot of dialogue and you see back and forth with yourself and the other person so your face is more relevant

When I made a custom female character in skyrim I didn't care because I play that in first person and it doesn't break that camera view
 
Dec 24, 2017
131
Michigan
That's not a fair comparison, and no that doesn't apply to real life. I have control over the character I'm creating in the game, that's the whole point of offering that freedom. I agree it would be shallow in real life, in a videogame where you are literally being given room to create your own power fantasy / role play character no I don't think it's shallow

Mass effect is an anomaly in that there is a lot of dialogue and you see back and forth with yourself and the other person so your face is more relevant

When I made a custom female character in skyrim I didn't care because I play that in first person and it doesn't break that camera view

That comparison is pretty much spot on.
 

Turin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,466
official Aloy is one of the best protagonist designs in recent years.

And she is attractive, just not a doll for anyone. That was bound to make some people uncomfortable.
 

empty feat

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,947
Yorkshire, UK
Aloy isn't ugly but I am not a fan of the artstyle of the game. Would have much preferred it with the more stylized early concept art look
tumblr_omga8ex4c51qa9abso1_1280.png


Have not bought Horizon yet but the art style isn't the reason for it. Just other games I was more interested in. Will pick it up at some point
Aloy's design fits the artstyle of the game Guerilla intended. She wears clothing you'd expect someone living in the snowy wilderness to wear, and doesn't have bangs because she's a hunter and that would obscure her vision. This character just looks really young.

Guerilla really nailed it with Aloy.
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,562
This wouldn't look very good in 3D imho unless they completely overhauled the renderer to look specifically like Lois van Baarle's concept art, (wasn't the only concept artist on the game). Which would have a huge effect on every art asset in the game. Don't think Guerilla ever intended to emulate that look considering the other pieces of artwork made for the game.

Not saying they ever intended it to look that way. I just wish we could get a big budget western sp game with an artstyle like this and some cool shading. Something looking more like an animated series than realistic or semi realistic.
 

orthodoxy1095

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,453
Do you take this attitude into real life? "Nothing shallow about wanting attractive friends if you're going to spend 30-40+ years staring at them!"

Also, as far as video games are concerned, you spend most of the time staring at the back of your avatar's head, no?
I mean, in terms of psychology, people do seem to choose friends based on how they look, whether they're consciously aware of it or not.

Most of us are pretty shallow in some ways.
 

ThankDougie

Banned
Nov 12, 2017
1,630
Buffalo
official Aloy is one of the best protagonist designs in recent years.

And she is attractive, just not a doll for anyone. That was bound to make some people uncomfortable.

I guess I'm put off by the fact that her good looks (not her look generally) are a subject at all. Are we really going to talk about changing parts of her body for our satisfaction as if she were a product meant to physically or sexually pleasure us? Even as a representation of a woman in a power fantasy, that's strange and so obviously objectifying. She's such a great and well-written character with private motivations and feelings (rare in even the best RPG stories, for example), why isn't that a stronger focus than her looks?

I think that we've gravitated to personal aesthetic evaluations in a thread about sexualized designs is a good indicator that we should all be a little more critical of how and why this happens in video games (as it does in popular culture generally).

And I'm not pointing at you and saying you're guilty of this at all - but I'm noticing it over and over again in the way people think about whether or not sexualized designs are acceptable or not. I just want to re-emphasize that this hyper-focus on sexual qualities in female leads is a good indicator that the conversation is lopsidedly masculine to begin with.
 

Bricks

Member
Nov 6, 2017
622
I've never really heard of people skipping on a game because the main character is ugly, but I can't say that surprises me at all.

I don't think they the word "ugly" was used, but I do remember several people not being interested in playing The Witcher because of how Geralt looks and you can't create your own character.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Aloy was sexier than 99% of the embarrassing, pandering designs you usually see specifically because she seemed like a real person.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.