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34BigThings Denies Digital Foundry’s Redout XB1X Analysis (Update: Digital Foundry Apology)

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lupianwolf

lupianwolf

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Oct 27, 2017
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MOD EDIT:
Railgun said:

The video has been removed, article updated, apology given and they will be retesting the game on Monday.
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/MOD EDIT

The folks at Digital Foundry are considered to be the foremost experts when it comes to the technical analysis of videogames.

Today they've posted their own analysis of Redout: Lightspeed Edition and their findings pointed out to an Xbox One X version rendered at 1080p, which induced a significant amount of outrage against 34BigThings as you can see in the images below, particularly because the PlayStation 4 Pro version of the game currently renders Redout at a more stable framerate compared to Xbox One X.
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Digital Foundry's Video:


We were able to speak with CEO Valerio Di Donato, who categorically denied Digital Foundry's analysis. We can exclusively present you the response via press release that's due to be published soon.
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Nicest part of a cloudy saturday morning? Waking up to a shitstorm raging upon you, based on what we can call incompetent technical analysis at best, fake news at worst.

Digital Foundry might have been a competent source of technical information in the past, but it might be currently going down to the click-baiting path. They just published an opinionated video on our game, Redout, in which they talk about Xbox One X performances, framerate and resolution, mentioning over and over that Redout shows a 1080p rendering for the Xbox One X version.

This is a pure, straight lie. The Xbox One X got an enhancement update a couple of weeks ago which brings 4k rendering with dynamic resolution scaling to everyone (owners or not of 4k TV). More specifically, we managed to scale the resolution between 90% and 50% of native 4k, which means the resolution goes from the upper limit of 3456×1944 to the lower one of 1920×1080 [confirmed also by VG Tech]. More technical details on this will follow in the next days, when everybody will be back from holiday vacations but meanwhile let us spell it out: it's not 1080p.

As many users reported, there are still some framerate hiccups where the game can't keep the 60fps pace and significantly drops below the 45+ threshold, which is something we are aware and very sorry of. This happens more frequently where many AI opponents are factored in, while it's close to nonexistent on time attacks, solo races and races with few opponents. We are aware of these issues and we'll keep working on those as long as possible.

But saying that Redout renders at 1080p is plain false. This, combined with the fact that some players seem to be highly sensitive to the XBox vs. PS4 performances tug-of-war, caused a rain of negative comments on our heads, all based on wrong information.

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We are currently looking into legal action to defend our public image. Not only because we dislike being called lazy or incompetent gratuitously, but also to send a message to the players and the industry. Gamedevs (indies especially) are amongst the most hard working people, to the point that burnout and crunch culture in game development are widespread. Really, just stop calling them lazy to the first hiccup. And don't fabricate excuses for calling them lazy. Ok? Thank you.
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https://wccftech.com/34bigthings-denies-digital-foundry-redout/
 
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Cerium

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Oct 23, 2017
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Please try to be civil and constructive and avoid making drive by posts that insult one or both parties in personal terms. There are clearly strong feelings involved here but there is no need for ad hominem.
 
FA!S

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Damn, I hope this gets sorted out quickly.

But I'm surprised how DF could've missed this, this will clearly damage their name as well.
 

fireflame

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Oct 27, 2017
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Apparently the developers are clearly accusing DF of lying, i just read a thread on the Steam forum where they say so. Hopefullyxbox one version will be patched and the misudnerstanding will be lifted.Whether DF is right or wrong I feel developers overracted a bit.
 

Deleted member 32018

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Didn't DF update their article to say that they made a mistake and it was dynamic res as per the video by VGTech?
 
Lego Killer Moth

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I've been going back and forth about this with a 34BigThings employee on Twitter forever now. Digital Foundry has shown nothing but integrity in the past, and I strongly doubt they would purposefully like to their fans or try to sabotage a game. If 34BT can prove that Digital Foundry is wrong, they should contact them and do so. If they did that and Digital Foundry wouldn't remove the video and apologise, then perhaps legal action would be in order. But publicly threatening a reviewer should definitely not be your first move, especially if you're trying to lower the negative attention you're getting.
 
Roytheone

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Really, just stop calling them lazy to the first hiccup. And don't fabricate excuses for calling them lazy. Ok? Thank you.
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This quote confuses me. DF didn't call them lazy, and the people that did call them lazy are basing it on the DF video. So nobody is fabricating excuses to call them lazy.....
 
data

data

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'd be surprised if legal action actually got them anywhere, other than a more negative image.

Is there any other group similar to Digital Foundry that does similar technical analysis on games that may verify whether DF video is actually factual or fictional?
 
Lynchian Anomaly

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Oct 25, 2017
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This is complex and I'm not sure where I sit on it. However, if DF did make a mistake and this developer feels like that's done enough damage to the game/brand, which it might judging by the comments section of people swearing they'll never buy from this developer again, then there might be some justification.

I dunno jumping straight to legal action without waiting for clarification seems off to me. DF gain nothing by misleading people so I'm leaning on an honest mistake.
 
panda-zebra

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Faust in other thread said:
But 1080 x 2 = 2160, bam, 50%!
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Yep, it seems he did exactly that, stated 90% and 50% based on a single axis... kinda a worse thing to do than what he accuses DF of. Maybe he should leave the techie talk stuff to more level-headed, technically-minded members of the team. Don't blame him for losing it though, those ranty xb1x owners were well out of order with their social media outbursts.
 

Deleted member 1722

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Hmm he says they added dynamic res scaling in an update? Maybe they did the vid pre-patch? This is odd, for sure.
 
KKRT

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Funny thing is that DF did not call devs lazy at any point. They actually heavily recommended game, just were baffled by lack of too many improvements and version being in their capture worse than pro.

The sane dev commentary would be 'we are working on fixing perf and resolution is dynamic, but it seems their captures didnt manage to get cases with higher res' and i bet that DF would include it in the article and review performance after patch would release.

By overreacting and threatening DF they basically made themselves PR nightmare and slight career suicide.

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steviejd1 said:
Didn't DF update their article to say that they made a mistake and it was dynamic res as per the video by VGTech?
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It wasnt mistake though. No DF captures, even simple scene ones, had resolution over 1080p.
 
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Rowsdower

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Roytheone said:
This quote confuses me. DF didn't call them lazy, and the people that did call them lazy are basing it on the DF video. So nobody is fabricating excuses to call them lazy.....
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I think their point is that calling devs lazy really stings. They're not blaming DF or saying they called them lazy here, they're upset people rushed to message them and accuse them of laziness.
 
RailWays

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So it was dynamic res, including the 1080p resolution within that range.
DF seem to have rectified, so I'd hope that both parties can resolve this without escalation.

To be fair to DF, they weren't making any comments about the team being lazy. All that is Twitter reactions.
 
Lashley

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Why does it matter if it renders at 1080p or not? Do the devs advertise it as a 4k game or something?
 
Akai

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I very much doubt that it was DF who called them "lazy" and they are not really responsible about stupid people being stupid, because they surely didn't tell those stupid people to harass the devs.

Can't imagine that this sueing will go through. Seems a little bit extreme to use this to set an example. Could have easily been worked out in a private conversation.
 
jett

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I think threatening DF with legal action is completely ridiculous. This developer is just screwing themselves over.
 

fireflame

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Oct 27, 2017
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I dont read anything bad in what DF wrote, they just made mistakes possibly, but that is all. Hopefully redout developers realize it just happens that some players reacted in aggressive way but that DF is not responsible for that.
 
data

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Tarrin said:
I think their point is that calling devs lazy really stings. They're not blaming DF or saying they called them lazy here, they're upset people rushed to message them and accuse them of laziness.
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The thing is that if they weren't blaming DF, I doubt they would've escalated and stated they wished to take legal action against them. They would take legal action against the people calling them lazy, which is obviously not possible.
 
Zedark

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If they claim it scales to 90% of 4k, then they should be able to tell us how well it adheres to that upper limit in some capacity, right? The CEO seems to want to call out DF, but it is known that DF uses pixel counting to determine resolution. If they only found 1080p, then that suggests that it hardly sticks to above 1080p resolutions. If the dev can show that it is regularly significantly above 1080p, then they might be able to say that DF didn't analyse properly and caused image damage to their product.

Not at all a legal expert, so I don't know if this holds water.
 
Spork4000

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So in the end did digital foundry just get unlucky with their shots? For all of them to come out at 1080p seems really unlikely.
 
Com_Raven

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That strikes me as an incredibly unprofessional response, regardless of whether DF was wrong or right. If they were in the wrong, he should have just told them where and how, and they would have corrected the article for sure. What he has done instead is to paint himself in a bad light, with little to gain from it. Not the smartest route to counter negativity.
 
Jon Carter

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So the CEO makes a bigger mistake than DF when defending the game. Will he sue himself as the mistake may taint their reputation?
 
Get_crazy

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So are they looking into taking legal action against """"gamers"""" who called them "lazy" and "incompetent"? Because, correct me if I'm wrong but DF didn't call them lazy or incompetent.
 

Observable

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panda-zebra said:
Yep, it seems he did exactly that, stated 90% and 50% based on a single axis... kinda a worse thing to do than what he accuses DF of. Maybe he should leave the techie talk stuff to more level-headed, technically-minded members of the team. Don't blame him for losing it though, those ranty xb1x owners were well out of order with their social media outbursts.
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Yes their own math seems off, but I can certainly relate to the situation where you've put a lot of work in a product and it gets misrepresented by one of the more popular outlets. Hope they will find a solution with DF.

Good thing nomatter the outcome, is that it shows DF how important it is to have their data correct. Nowadays it can have real financial consequences for developers.
 
RoboPlato

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DF has gotten things wrong before and are usually quick to issue updates and retractions when devs contact them. The devs also could have taken a look at the game to see if the dynamic res function is working as intended since they even admit that 1080p is indeed a resolution it can hit plus they wrongly think that 1080p is 50% of 4K when it's 25% which leads me to believe they're not even quite sure how it works.

DF has always shown a lot of respect for developers even in cases of poor performing games. Threatening them with legal action because some fanboys got mad on Twitter is a bad look.
 
mrtl

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It's all about role models and their position in society and perceived power over individuals (as is implied by the comments posted in the press release). If you are in the position of a powerful brand like Digital Foundry, you really have no pause to breath. You either get it right every time or get burned down on first mistake. Very interesting.
 

Deleted member 16849

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Ignoring the 1080p claim they made a mistake on the fact of the matter is the game game drops into the mid 40s framerate wise (while PS4 Pro is locked) and the X version still uses the base assets of the One and didnt get the bump in textures like the PS4 Pro.
 

Deleted member 9317

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This is a very weird situation. On one hand Digital Foundry did their due diligence and they always do so. I doubt they missed out on small details on purpose or to damage the devs image. They have no stake on these games other than giving their audience a real technical analysis.

On the other hand, the devs could've been more civil in this situation and put up their own video to debunk them and essentially ask for Digital Foundry to amend things and maybe apologize for missing these details.

Lastly, the gaming audience's obsession with resolution and framerate and jumping the gun is come to a point that developers should expect everyone to call them lazy, regardless of how lazy they're not.

Legal action as setting an "example" is honestly going to do these devs more harm than good. No one is going to parade them on fixing digital foundry's comments.

In the end, the ONLY example this should set is game developers THEMSELVES need to put up videos showing how their game runs on each console (similar to how Kojima Production did on MGS5) without relying on others to prove or disprove.

The onus is on the the gaming industry and not the press or gamers to provide us with HONEST answers without deception. There's been too many deception in this damn industry that when there is an honest mistake made, they jump the gun to "legal actions".

All in all, hilariously petty and shitty situation that can be solved with one phonecall.
 
Medalion

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Isn't this game also coming to Switch also? If it runs this way on these powerful systems I shudder to think Switch's version

And to ask people not to obsess over frame rate and resolution... this is digital foundry, people who ARE into those things come to this place for their analysis and breakdowns.
 

Deleted member 32018

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definedMF said:
Finally a gamedev speaks up about this stuff. Misinformation like that can really be harming to sales for game devs, especially Indies.
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It's a poor port either way using OG xbox one effects, goes down to 1080p more often then not (it seems) and doesn't hold anywhere near 60fps locked. For the power the X has it should be much better which is a shame because it looks like a fun game.
 
AncientReptileBrain

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This seems like an insane approach. Like, why not reach out to DF I'm good faith and explain the issues and ask for a correction?
 
Rowsdower

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data said:
The thing is that if they weren't blaming DF, I doubt they would've escalated and stated they wished to take legal action against them. They would take legal action against the people calling them lazy, which is obviously not possible.
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Makes sense. I thought that end part was a tangent complaining about the complainers. The devs relating it to DF isn't fair, as they are not the ones who called the devs lazy or insulted them.
 
Zedark

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fireflame said:
Twitter update from the developers: https://twitter.com/34bigthings/status/949757275866124289
"Redout: Lightspeed Edition runs at 4k@60fps with dynamic resolution scaling on Xbox One X after the enhanced update we released some weeks ago. We will keep working on performance and bugfixes in the future and we will not tolerate lies."
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If dynamic res means that it runs at 1080p for 95% of the time, then DF can hardly be called liars for not discovering this imo. I wonder how this will shake out...
 
Fantastical

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The dev calling this "lies" is extremely childish. I very much doubt that DF knowingly put out wrong information. I'm curious as to how often this game hits 4k. DF are not amateurs.
 
weblaus

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Lashley said:
Why does it matter if it renders at 1080p or not? Do the devs advertise it as a 4k game or something?
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I'd say it matters insofar as if it really was 1080p only, that's the same as on PS4 Pro where the game runs at near-perfect 60 fps while on Xbox One X it doesn't. So that would be a really embarrassing patch.
 
SteveWinwood

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whats wrong with saying 'hey do you mind maybe looking into that again df cause that's not what we're getting :)'

instead of 'liars! we'll sue!'
 
SLB1904

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they should finish the game first

Edit: they are probably taking advantage of the situation
 
Continental 0p

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Medalion said:
Isn't this game also coming to Switch also? If it runs this way on these powerful systems I shudder to think Switch's version

And to ask people not to obsess over frame rate and resolution... this is digital foundry, people who ARE into those things come to this place for their analysis and breakdowns.
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It's been announced, but it was originally going to come out months before the PS4 and Xbox versions. As of a few days ago when I last looked, there was no new release date.
 
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