That's kinda what I'm getting at, I'm sure it's more cathartic to whine in public where everyone can see you like that.
Oh well.
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Oh well.
Don't forget to post about this injustice everywhere you go from here, because of course this is everyone else's fault but yours.
There has been plenty of differences of opinions in this thread, but sexism, mansplaining and mysogniny isn't. Not hard really.
Are they all working out of a secret underground volcano base? Please tell me they are all working out of a secret underground volcano base. With uniforms for all. Red, obviously. Oh, that probably breaches discussion of moderation TOS
/taps nose
Speaking as someone watching the hell out of this thread I don't understand why it's so damn difficult for certain people to take the hint when it comes to getting banned or warned in here. Like, reading through this thread it's not necessarily being against the general point of the thread that puts you in hot water but rather the complete dismissal of it or decision to whine about how people have even brought it up in the first place. It shouldn't be that hard to maybe do some reflection before entering here again after some form of mod action but I looking back on some of the posts here it seems like it might be.
Probably sounded better and more coherent in my head but it's like 3 am here and this was the last thing I saw before bed and felt like posting.
Probably sounded better and more coherent in my head but it's like 3 am here and this was the last thing I saw before bed and felt like posting.
Also, We just reached 100 pages of this thread! (or 199 if you're using 50 ppp). So far we've moved a total of 2 nanometers from Step 1!
EDIT:
...You know too much...prepare for immediate dismantling.
EDIT:
...You know too much...prepare for immediate dismantling.
listen, I'm not saying there is an underground volcano base.
but there's absolutely an underground volcano base
How long till the next "so you just want all sexy women to disappear from video games forever!?!?!?" post? :D
I wouldnt say that. Of course we are not going to solve anything, but I saw some people posting here about how this theead helped them to have more perspective about this.
For that alone I think the 200pages have been worth it IMO, even with all the shit that also hapened.
STOP GIVING AWAY OUR SECRETS! They can't know our secret plans to take over the world so we can enact our grand final master plan!
Also, I'd give it a three days at most.
Step 1: gather examples of sexualised character design and discuss.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: profit!
Do I need to leave a barely comprehensible shitty ragequit note first?
Trip is some seriously unfortunate character design. The actual character is great, intelligent and vulnerable, but strong willed, intelligent and even ruthless if you get right down to it, but her design works against that at every turn.
In fact I think it's a great example of design undermining characterization.
I think you hit the nail on the head with 'reading through this thread'. Anyone reading the OP and the first few pages can see what the discussion is about, and contribute accordingly, which absolutely includes dissenting opinion.
The thing is, sometimes people see the headline, that by its nature exchanges context and nuance for brevity as it assumes an interested reader will check the OP, and then pile in with either their hot take or an opinion deployed in a dozen similar threads before, without taking regard of tone, context and direction of this particular discussion. Not all 'social issues' threads are the same but it seems like some posters treat them as such, with virulent disdain rather than seeing the interesting minor differences between even superficially similar positions.
It's a bit like if I see my mates discussing x topic down at the pub and then take off my coat and immediately launch into a well-worn heated argument from weeks past intended to shut it down, rather than sit down, relax, take a sip and see what people are on about first. Taking a ban and then charging back in to carry on is then like being kicked out for the night by the bouncers, seething about it and then charging back in for round 2 without even stopping to think about whether a less aggressive approach might be more fruitful.
I'm used to supervillain misdirection, it's a fully operational orbital battlestation equipped with laser cannons and hive-mind-control rays isn't it.
What? I am not really sure if you have understood. Again.
It's like no matter what I say, you always misconstrue it as "dismissal" or "defending" which is hilarious.
How "author intent" dismisses anything?
I mean, creator either makes sexualized design or not. Of course, there are cases when people might see things differently, but most of the time it's on the nose, so I am not sure what are you talking about when you say that "author intent dismisses criticism and shoulders all fault for finding designs objectionable on the viewers".
It's like I need to clarify absolutely anything to the tiniest detail or we talking different languages using the same letters.
You don't think that "standards of women" sounds a bit...awkward, no?
"People might find different things problematic" is a fact. Which is neither offensive nor defensive.
I take it, you believe that everyone should find the same things "problematic" as you do. Everyone who doesn't are bad people. Which is very awkward way to approach any problem, to say the least, no matter amount of bitten lips.
I don't who was CID user and I don't what he was talking about, except that yes, in grand scheme of things in the universe, there is no such things as justice / injustice and the like, it's all stuff made up by humans, unless you believe in fictional monsters. But it is a bad way to approach human society and interactions.
Holy shit, this whole thread was worth it just for this.
Yes, in a discussion about specifics you need to clarify. And, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but your writing is difficult to understand (not talking about the arguments, but the grammar and structure of it).
There are definitely certain problems in our society that most agree are problematic. Racism, sexism and objectification are some of those examples. It's reasonable to argue about the degree to which these are problems, but not really that they are problems. The very meaning of the terms implies a problem - and again, the meaning of the terms is not up for debate.
Please address any moderation question by PM or contact the mod captains.
Hidden content
*resists urge to use red font* Yes.
Yes you said she was sexier than 99 percent of other characters.
Regardless of your reason you are specifically referring to her "sexiness"
I mean, read the other replies on that page. I was just chiming in to a discussion already in progress.
A commonality I notice with a lot of people who don't seem to "get" this discussion (in this thread and in countless other conversations I've had), is that they're thinking too much about their personal preferences. When we discuss social issues, the focus is almost always on a wider societal context. There might be some smaller discussion within that about personal likes and dislikes, but it isn't the central point.
So when I talk about a game being designed to be a male power fantasy, I don't mean what you, specific forum poster, like or fantasize about. I'm talking about a societal idea/trope. When I talk about a sexualized character design, I'm not thinking of what you, specific forum poster, find attractive, but what is attractive within societal standards. A few pages back I brought up romantic comedies and the idealized men in them, and I didn't say a word about what I like in a guy because it's not relevant to that particular point. It can be hard to make this distinction, especially when you're not used to it, but it's good to learn if you want to participate in these sorts of discussions.
As an aside -- and I'm not trying to put the kibosh on anyone doing this in this thread -- I'm soooo tired of talking about well-done sexy female character designs. Sometimes it feels like I'm trapped between awful sexy designs and, I guess, good ones, and I'm just sick of all of them. I want to talk about anything else. That's really the problem with how extremely prevalent it is. When the majority of female characters are designed to be sexy, even when a character actually has a reason to be and is pretty well designed, I still don't find myself liking it. She's just another sexy lady to add to the pile. So boring.
So when I talk about a game being designed to be a male power fantasy, I don't mean what you, specific forum poster, like or fantasize about. I'm talking about a societal idea/trope. When I talk about a sexualized character design, I'm not thinking of what you, specific forum poster, find attractive, but what is attractive within societal standards. A few pages back I brought up romantic comedies and the idealized men in them, and I didn't say a word about what I like in a guy because it's not relevant to that particular point. It can be hard to make this distinction, especially when you're not used to it, but it's good to learn if you want to participate in these sorts of discussions.
As an aside -- and I'm not trying to put the kibosh on anyone doing this in this thread -- I'm soooo tired of talking about well-done sexy female character designs. Sometimes it feels like I'm trapped between awful sexy designs and, I guess, good ones, and I'm just sick of all of them. I want to talk about anything else. That's really the problem with how extremely prevalent it is. When the majority of female characters are designed to be sexy, even when a character actually has a reason to be and is pretty well designed, I still don't find myself liking it. She's just another sexy lady to add to the pile. So boring.
OP
OP
The shitposts, the trolling, the casual (and not so casual) misogyny... it was all worth it for this *wipes away tear*
Only possible reaction to that post. I've been waiting all thread to use this!
Are...are you going to turn Peter Capaldi gifs into a language of its own?
This is a fair point. At an earlier point in the thread, we were talking about what designs we see from the world we would like to see in video games. I think I'll re-quote them to see if we can bring up the discussion again as there were some quite distinct outfits that were unique and yet not reducing to woman.
That was on page 20/40...
Maybe wrong thread but Id like to hear thoughts on the historical designs of Central Asia (more specific steppe) that are almost nonexistence in Video games.
One of my favorite is Khutulun who was a respective strategist of Khan and warrior who's bet was marring to a warrior who will defeat her at battle in case of defeat she gets 100 horses from challenger (at the end she got 10 000).
The best part about the meltdown is how gradual it was. For weeks, the dude started off making snarky and passive-aggressive posts in this thread, and similar ones like it.Then as time passes, I noticed he grew more and more discontent, more willing to say what was really on his mind when people discuss these things. And now we're here, where we finally just lets it all out.
All of your posts are so on point, damn! I definitely agree with this. Which is why the discussion about whether Bayonetta is an example of good character representation or not is kinda tiring to me.
tbh ban me I don't wanna be part of a forum where 100ppp is the standard
don't actually ban me pls
User banned (permanent): refusal to join the 100ppp hive-mind
brb going to literally every other website to complain about the ERA SJW 100ppp hivemind
*checks out new threads this morning*
Ah yes this will go over well.
*reads some of the thread*
Mmm, okay, lots of blaming America and, ah, there it is, the classic "people overreact to sexy designs".
Ah yes this will go over well.
*reads some of the thread*
Mmm, okay, lots of blaming America and, ah, there it is, the classic "people overreact to sexy designs".
I'M SORRY FOR NOT SHARING THE SAME OPINION ABOUT 100PPP AS EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS THREAD. JUST BECAUSE I SAY WHAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR DOES'NT MEAN I'M NOT ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE THREAD, HAVE FUN IN YOUR SAFE 100PPP SPACE/ECHO CHAMBER.
Etc, etc.
Etc, etc.
I'm basically a 50ppp post-negative comments prude. Cover it up, my puritan brain can't handle all this full-frontal, rampant typography.
There actually are some great representations of this... but they're pretty much all in Chinese.
And yeah, all the "look at this conventional design" like it's somehow revolutionary is quite tiring.
Sorry, English is not my native language, so I do a lot of mistakes.
That aside, it's kind of tiring when I need to get to the tiniest detail to be understood properly. I don't expect people to be telepaths to get what I am trying to say, of course, but in general it can be annoying, when people immediately assume the worst and can't figure out the meaning, even when they have context.
I am not taking it personally. In general, I am enjoy interesting characters, regardless of their clothing.
Though I can understand people who can be annoyed by sexualization as well as people who like their characters to be idealized and super-sexy and mega-attractive.
There are some exceptions, where I draw the line, of course (like Quiet in MGSV).
Dang, there's always something crazy going on in this thread.
I also thought that was going to be a ball kicking thread, weird title.
Yea, there's a lot of strawmanning in there, eh.
I also thought that was going to be a ball kicking thread, weird title.
If anyone's curious, the first four (and maybe the rest in that quote block?) are Otoyomegatari - A Bride's Story - a manga about... I guess, a bride, I've never read it. I do know it has amazing textiles and junk, as shown in those images. People keep telling me to read it!!
I believe the second quote block is from the Netflix show Marco Polo (and I actually didn't hate most (most) of what I watched of it, though I also don't feel super compelled to finish it).
In light of this, and seeing as our discussion started with me querying choice of phrasing, I'm happy to draw a line under it. Sorry if I was doggedly pursuing a point long after I should have let it go, reading my points back I could probably have been a lot clearer too.
Haha, why thank you ;) If I never had to think about Bayonetta again, I'd be thrilled. I personally don't like her because the camera blah blah but I'm fine if other people do because I can see the argument that blah blah blah. It's the same thing every. time. And at best, she's just a better done sexy character, which doesn't amount to much for me. I just want to get to the point where character design isn't something I have to worry about at all. I hate recommending a game to a friend and having to add, "just a warning, there's some gross fanservice" or "it's great but this ONE character's outfit..."
As someone who consumes a lot of live-action Asian shows, it does amuse me when those live action stuff decide to do the more fantastical stuff because of how dumb the costumes can be. Most of the time though, most live-action shows will be either modern or take place in a historical period. So it's nice to see women wearing armor or clothes that isn't form fitting and fan-servicing. Though there's also the problem where every woman is a model no matter what but that's a different topic for another day.
That was a very Phoenix Wright-esque breakdown. Also I love the "*logs out before ban*" part.
On the off chance you read this do you not realise that its the way you conduct yourself not your opinions themselves that lead to your bannings?
dude you made a post in full capslock directly calling out the mods judging this entire community at large with no evidence.
That's right. Armor designs in film and TV are going to be more practical in general than games or animation because real women have to wear and be active in them. You'll find good examples outside of China, but China is the country that makes a ton of historical TV shows and films with women wearing armor.
But let's talk about Bayonetta and how she's actually a good example of *gets shot*
Honestly, you guys can talk about it to your heart's content, and I'll just sit it out forever lol
I wouldn't even have clicked if you hadn't pointed it out. Whyyyyyyy. I definitely don't have the energy today.
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