Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)

Xaszatm said:

As someone who consumes a lot of live-action Asian shows, it does amuse me when those live action stuff decide to do the more fantastical stuff because of how dumb the costumes can be. Most of the time though, most live-action shows will be either modern or take place in a historical period. So it's nice to see women wearing armor or clothes that isn't form fitting and fan-servicing. Though there's also the problem where every woman is a model no matter what but that's a different topic for another day.

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The video games they make have a bit more variety compared to their films, but that has fallen off recently (really, it fell off in the late 2000s), due to basically no investment in their games industry (and piracy, as pretty much all games were on PC). I'd like to see it make a comeback, there were lots of really interesting historical fantasy games. That said, not sure what chance there is of that. The Korean and Chinese games industry are pretty much 100% mobile games now (with a few MMOs here and there).

How are you gonna call a site a hive mind but still want to browse it?

I imagine he will be one of those people saying "fuck era" on YouTube now.

I don't get the whole "I thought this site was going to be different from GAF" line that I hear Cham and many posters like them spout when they start to feel "unwelcome." Considering the circumstances of Era's birth, it seems kind of absurd to think that it'd be accepting of shitty internet troll behavior.

Pop-O-Matic said:

I don't get the whole "I thought this site was going to be different from GAF" line that I hear Cham and many posters like them spout when they start to feel "unwelcome." Considering the circumstances of Era's birth, it seems kind of absurd to think that it'd be accepting of shitty internet troll behavior.

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Yeah. i really don't get it either.

LuckyChamCham said:

Hey mods, I'M SORRY FOR NOT SHARING THE SAME OPINION AS EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS FUCKING THREAD. JUST BECAUSE I SAY WHAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR DOES'NT MEAN I'M NOT ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE THREAD, BECAUSE I DON'T SHARE THE SAME VIEWS AS THE OTHERS. FORGIVE ME FOR PROMOTING MY WRONG THINK IN YOUR FUCKING ECHO CHAMBER OF A SITE, I THOUGHT THIS PLACE WOULD BE DIFFERENT WHICH IS WHY I NEVER POSTED AT NEOGAF BUT I GUESS NOT. YOU GUYS HAVE THE POWER TO BAN SO NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO DISAGREE WITH YOU AM I RIGHT? FUCK YOU AND YOUR WAY OF DOING THINGS, I NEVER ATTACKED ANYONE ON HERE NOR WAS I DISMISSIVE AND I GOT BANNED FOR DOING SO. I TRIED MY BEST TO UNDERSTAND THE VIEWS OF THE OTHER MEMBERS AND RESPONDED ACCORDINGLY. YOU WERE SO QUICK TO BAN ME TWICE THAT YOU DID'NT EVEN BOTHER ISSUING A WARNING, JUST A STRAIGHT BAN BECAUSE FUCK ME AND MY DISSENTING OPINION SINCE IT DOES'NT FIT YOUR NARRATIVE. ANYWAY, SINCE YOU'RE GOING TO BAN ME AGAIN BECAUSE I'VE HURT YOUR DELICATE FEELINGS PLEASE MAKE IT PERMANENT AND HAVE FUN IN YOUR SAFE SPACE/ECHO CHAMBER. I DON'T WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS HIVE-MIND COMMUNITY ANYMORE.

Spoiler

Also when you ban someone let them fucking log out of their account lol.. or I'm not allowed to browse the site anymore because I'm not one of you amirite? Fuck this site, have fun with your politics, I'll be having fun playing video games like normal people. :)


*logs out before ban*

Mod edit: Please don't use red fonts.

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You know, I was kinda suspicious with the username, but you're totally the guy from the Neo-Geo community that bragged and defended about spending a ridiculous amount of money to commission Cham Cham (underaged catgirl for those who don't know) porn, right? I remember a similar tantrum post when you were confronted by it years ago.

kaytee said:

I wouldn't even have clicked if you hadn't pointed it out. Whyyyyyyy. I definitely don't have the energy today.

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Haha, sorry. :P I don't really have the energy today, either. C'est la vie.

Pop-O-Matic said:

I don't get the whole "I thought this site was going to be different from GAF" line that I hear Cham and many posters like them spout when they start to feel "unwelcome." Considering the circumstances of Era's birth, it seems kind of absurd to think that it'd be accepting of shitty internet troll behavior.

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That, and the "hive-mind" or "echo chamber" accusations, which are always, always thrown in the... most heated and divisive threads. Go figure.

Choppasmith said:

You know, I was kinda suspicious with the username, but you're totally the guy from the Neo-Geo community that bragged and defended about spending a ridiculous amount of money to commission Cham Cham (underaged catgirl for those who don't know) porn, right? I remember a similar tantrum post when you were confronted by it years ago.

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Yeesh. Let's not do that, please. He's already banned anyway. Yes, the meltdown was entertaining, but let's move on. Thanks. :)

Pop-O-Matic said:

I don't get the whole "I thought this site was going to be different from GAF" line that I hear Cham and many posters like them spout when they start to feel "unwelcome." Considering the circumstances of Era's birth, it seems kind of absurd to think that it'd be accepting of shitty internet troll behavior.

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Some people hated Gaf yet wanted something like gaf in terms on how big it was, so they wanted to shape Era into their liking (you could see it on twitter while Era was being done).

Also some people convinced themselves that Gaf was done because mods and echochambers, not because the admin was a sexual harasser

Xaszatm said:

At an earlier point in the thread, we were talking about what designs we see from the world we would like to see in video games. I think I'll re-quote them to see if we can bring up the discussion again as there were some quite distinct outfits that were unique and yet not reducing to woman.

That was on page 20/40...

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I remember saying at the time that was a set of outfits I find really interesting, as they say so much about the world as well as the character. When a character (or a cast) look like they are designed in complete isolation from the gameworld, then just dropped in, sometimes I feel it's like an unintentional fish-out-of-water. Like they are made to stand out, but they also don't seem like they live there, even if they do. I don't mean like an actual fish-out-of-water (such as Tidus), but more when you end up with a general culture that wears muted clothes and the lead character looks like they go shopping for clothes on another planet.

I think an example is like, in Fallout NV, if you equip leather armour, as a female or male character, it looks broadly like the other well-worn leather armour in the gameworld. You can accessorise with a comedy hat to your heart's content, but it doesn't suddenly become either skimpier or with added flame effects on the back or whatever. Maybe that's a poor example as muted tones pretty such summarise the general attire there, as opposed to the beautiful colours you tend to find in some other games, but I do like a character that seems like they are comfortable in the setting rather than have just stepped off a catwalk with no idea how they are going to march for 80 hours across wilderness in four random scarves and assymetrical trousers or whatever. Anyway, that's what I like about those Steppe-themed designs.

You know, as a side note, I wonder what color would work for both the inferior light them as well as the superior dark theme. Is this color visible in both light and dark?

kaytee said:

Honestly, you guys can talk about it to your heart's content, and I'll just sit it out forever lol



I wouldn't even have clicked if you hadn't pointed it out. Whyyyyyyy. I definitely don't have the energy today.

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Meh, I'm getting tired of that conversation being brought up as well. Then again, we keep getting the same arguments (and characters) thrown at us for a million times already...

Twig said:

Haha, sorry. :P I don't really have the energy today, either. C'est la vie.

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I'm not even gonna look at that thread.

kaytee said:

I hate recommending a game to a friend and having to add, "just a warning, there's some gross fanservice" or "it's great but this ONE character's outfit..."

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Bayonetta is pretty much impossible for me to recommend to folks without having to add a warning.

Persephone said:

I'm on light theme and my eyes are burning. Maybe a nice soothing dark/medium green?

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Hmm...

How about this?

Persephone said:

I like! It might be trickier for dark theme idk.

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I'm on dark theme and it seems fine. Yay! No we have a color for emphasizing stuff!

Redcrayon said:

But then people wouldn't have known about his epic takedown of the hivemind, speaking truth to the limitless power of unpaid mods dealing with shitty posts with a weary politeness.

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Yeah, I'm sure he's gonna link to it on 4Chan or whatever other site where people share the sentiments that we're a big leftist bizarro Nazi forum or whatever.

Persephone said:

I wonder if there's an ERA equivalent to... that place.

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Voat? They do have a site dedicated to Neogaf that immediately switched over to this site. I know that some of the more...interesting responses I get are because people believe the bullshit the heard from there.

Xaszatm said:

Are...are you going to turn Peter Capaldi gifs into a language of its own?



This is a fair point. At an earlier point in the thread, we were talking about what designs we see from the world we would like to see in video games. I think I'll re-quote them to see if we can bring up the discussion again as there were some quite distinct outfits that were unique and yet not reducing to woman.

That was on page 20/40...

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I'd love to see more of Kaoru Mori's work in general.

LuckyChamCham said:

Hey mods, I'M SORRY FOR NOT SHARING THE SAME OPINION AS EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS FUCKING THREAD. JUST BECAUSE I SAY WHAT YOU DON'T WANT TO HEAR DOES'NT MEAN I'M NOT ALLOWED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE THREAD, BECAUSE I DON'T SHARE THE SAME VIEWS AS THE OTHERS. FORGIVE ME FOR PROMOTING MY WRONG THINK IN YOUR FUCKING ECHO CHAMBER OF A SITE, I THOUGHT THIS PLACE WOULD BE DIFFERENT WHICH IS WHY I NEVER POSTED AT NEOGAF BUT I GUESS NOT. YOU GUYS HAVE THE POWER TO BAN SO NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO DISAGREE WITH YOU AM I RIGHT? FUCK YOU AND YOUR WAY OF DOING THINGS, I NEVER ATTACKED ANYONE ON HERE NOR WAS I DISMISSIVE AND I GOT BANNED FOR DOING SO. I TRIED MY BEST TO UNDERSTAND THE VIEWS OF THE OTHER MEMBERS AND RESPONDED ACCORDINGLY. YOU WERE SO QUICK TO BAN ME TWICE THAT YOU DID'NT EVEN BOTHER ISSUING A WARNING, JUST A STRAIGHT BAN BECAUSE FUCK ME AND MY DISSENTING OPINION SINCE IT DOES'NT FIT YOUR NARRATIVE. ANYWAY, SINCE YOU'RE GOING TO BAN ME AGAIN BECAUSE I'VE HURT YOUR DELICATE FEELINGS PLEASE MAKE IT PERMANENT AND HAVE FUN IN YOUR SAFE SPACE/ECHO CHAMBER. I DON'T WANT TO BE A PART OF THIS HIVE-MIND COMMUNITY ANYMORE.

Spoiler

Also when you ban someone let them fucking log out of their account lol.. or I'm not allowed to browse the site anymore because I'm not one of you amirite? Fuck this site, have fun with your politics, I'll be having fun playing video games like normal people. :)


*logs out before ban*

Mod edit: Please don't use red fonts.

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Making the angry font black makes this post really hard for me to read on the dark theme. But unveiling the anger as I highlighted line by line it made it more amusing.

Persephone said:

ResetERA is a lot more difficult to twist into something offensive though. Did they just keep the name?

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Yep...well, I haven't checked since I braved that site once two months ago so probably yes. I'm ain't going back to check though.

Cham, if you read this, do realize there are people on the anti-objectification side of things who have gotten warned for acting like you have. It ain't a hive mind, it's asking people to not be fucking assholes about holding different opinions.

Persephone said:

I wonder if there's an ERA equivalent to... that place.

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Honestly I keep wishing there was a left version of 4chan, without the racism, pedophilia, sexism and transphobia and stuff. It's fun having anonymous conversations in ephemeral topics sometimes, but you have to wade through a lot of creepy crap, it's just not worth it. Though I guess those sorts of thoughts come with not having to put a name to what you say. Ech...

... Wow. Sorry I got really off topic there.

So uh. Back on topic, anyone else a bit concerned about that upcoming Soulcalibur game? I mean I'm super excited about it personally, but that said, though it's a 'remake' of SC1 but... Already it looks like they're going all in on the objectification with parts of Sophitia's attire being translucent. :/ SC1 had a lot of great designs, it'd be a shame to see them arbitrarily made more sexualized, especially when people could probably make their own sexy outfits in CaS anyway. That's without getting into that one unfortunate screenshot that's totally intentionally focusing on Sophitia's boobs while she's being hit and her face is offscreen like... Ehhhhhh?

I fear Taki is going to have her nipples showing through her suit again. Started in 2, after all. It's just so extra...

ShyMel said:

I am not expecting much from SC6 considering the character models we have seen so far are updated ones from years ago. The last two games really had little uniqueness between the established characters and the CaS we could make. Fairly certain that some of the face options in 5 were just the main casts' faces with a few tweaks.

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Mm, yeah. So they'll probably still have balloon boobs on almost all the women, which is sure to turn some people off sadly but very understandably... :/ Bolded is also kind of a shame since it's STILL one of the most robust CaC systems out there.

Mewshuji said:

So uh. Back on topic, anyone else a bit concerned about that upcoming Soulcalibur game? I mean I'm super excited about it personally, but that said, though it's a 'remake' of SC1 but... Already it looks like they're going all in on the objectification with parts of Sophitia's attire being translucent. :/ SC1 had a lot of great designs, it'd be a shame to see them arbitrarily made more sexualized, especially when people could probably make their own sexy outfits in CaS anyway. That's without getting into that one unfortunate screenshot that's totally intentionally focusing on Sophitia's boobs while she's being hit and her face is offscreen like... Ehhhhhh?

I fear Taki is going to have her nipples showing through her suit again. Started in 2, after all. It's just so extra...

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I can relate. SC is my favorite fighting game gameplay wise but man, its annoying that has been turned into the fanservice fighting game, at the same level than DoA (a game that atleast is more upfront on that regard).

People say there has always been fanservice in the Soul Edge/Calibur series, but although it's true, they downplay how much more fanservice was added in each entry (peaking at 4). 6 already has the nonsensical clothing destruction, and some of the PR pictures were.... well , you know it, so I don't expect much.

AzureFlame said:

Her face is unattractive to me, i prefer the concept art design

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Agreed. I don't understand why they decided to go with the unattractive version of Aloy for the final design. Maybe if they stuck with this concept art, it would have made playing the game a lot more bearable.

Their reasoning for not going with this concept really makes no sense to me. Her face in the concept art looks a lot more believable than the potato face we got.

Yes, I'm still salty we didn't get this version of her.

Edit: missing word

People saying that a stylised, cartoonish face is "more believable" than a realistic one kinda weirds me out a bit TBH.

Aloy does not have a freaking "potato face". Jesus Christ...

CoLD FiRE said:

Agreed. I don't understand why they decided to go with the unattractive version of Aloy for the final design. Maybe if they stuck with this concept art, it would have made playing the game a lot more bearable.

Their reasoning for not going with this concept really makes no sense to me. Her face in the concept art looks a lot more believable than the potato face we got.

Yes, I'm still salty we didn't get this version of her.

Edit: missing word

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1. I still don't get the potato face comments

2. Possibly because she's 18 and not say...15.

kaytee said:

Aloy does not have a freaking "potato face". Jesus Christ...

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Yeah, don't get it either.

I dunno what it is about Aloy that makes people so compelled to tell everyone that they think she's not attractive. Just feels like I've heard it about her more than any other character lol

Some part of me wonders if this topic is a gigantic social experiment to try to draw out undesirable elements of the community, give them statements they'd disagree with, and have them be banned when they say something outrageously stupid.

If that's the case, the it sure is working like a charm.

Morrigan said:

User banned (permanent): refusal to join the 100ppp hive-mind

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psychowave said:

brb going to literally every other website to complain about the ERA SJW 100ppp hivemind

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Thanks for the good laugh after the incident!

Now's time to play more Trails in the Sky. Tell me how lucky i am, my first time to play. :P

CoLD FiRE said:

Agreed. I don't understand why they decided to go with the unattractive version of Aloy for the final design. Maybe if they stuck with this concept art, it would have made playing the game a lot more bearable.

Their reasoning for not going with this concept really makes no sense to me. Her face in the concept art looks a lot more believable than the potato face we got.

Yes, I'm still salty we didn't get this version of her.

Edit: missing word

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Potato face? That's ridiculous

CoLD FiRE said:

Her face in the concept art looks a lot more believable than the potato face we got.

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'Believable?' The concept art is a cartoon drawing of a girl in her mid-teens, compared to a face that looks more like a real person that's a few years older.

What's the relationship between attractiveness (to you) and 'believability'? Sorry, I just don't get the connection, are post-apocalyptic female adventurers more likely to be younger and with more cartooney facial proportions than the one we got or something?

Lotus said:

I dunno what it is about Aloy that makes people so compelled to tell everyone that they think she's not attractive. Just feels like I've heard it about her more than any other character lol

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Probably that she's not designed to be as deliberately hyper-attractive/cute as possible, she just looks like a normal person. While on the subject of post-apocalyptic redheads, going back to Enslaved, that's one thing that I found a bit generic about Trip, that she seems designed by committee to look super-attractive in her boob tube while the men vary from angry meathead to heavily overweight. I wonder how long it will be before lead female characters are allowed to have a wider variety of body types than just the narrow spectrum between pretty/slim/petite and pretty/slim/athletic.

Aloy makes me feel hopeful for the future. There's life in her design. Based on the kind of things the character can do she looks believable. I would not have felt the same way if they had used the original concept art all the way through to finalization.

Ferrs said:

I can relate. SC is my favorite fighting game gameplay wise but man, its annoying that has been turned into the fanservice fighting game, at the same level than DoA (a game that atleast is more upfront on that regard).

People say there has always been fanservice in the Soul Edge/Calibur series, but although it's true, they downplay how much more fanservice was added in each entry (peaking at 4). 6 already has the nonsensical clothing destruction, and some of the PR pictures were.... well , you know it, so I don't expect much.

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Agreed. It's always had some level of fanservice, but nothing beyond, say, what Tekken also brings to the table- nothing you'd be embarrassed of recommending to a friend or playing in front of your mom or girlfriend. Up until 4 (arguably 3) that is. Then they just went fucking crazy. Then 5 toned it down again, but then Lost Souls or whatever that F2P game was cranked it up to beyond DoA levels with some of those costumes. It's messy.

And yeah the clothing destruction is yuck. It's a decent idea, the only problem is that rather than what it should be, it's a transparent attempt to make skimpy outfits even skimpier, rather than starting with decent sets of armor and then showing realistic battle damage.

CoLD FiRE said:

Agreed. I don't understand why they decided to go with the unattractive version of Aloy for the final design. Maybe if they stuck with this concept art, it would have made playing the game a lot more bearable.

Their reasoning for not going with this concept really makes no sense to me. Her face in the concept art looks a lot more believable than the potato face we got.

Yes, I'm still salty we didn't get this version of her.

Edit: missing word

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Probably because she looks about 13 in this concept art.

Question; why exactly did you feel the game was unbearable to play just because you didn't find Aloy attractive?

Akainu said:

How are you gonna call a site a hive mind but still want to browse it?

I imagine he will be one of those people saying "fuck era" on YouTube now.

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In old country i would warn out against such unapogetically combative argument tactics in threads like these for this very reason

but people don't seem to mind it happening so...

Lotus said:

I dunno what it is about Aloy that makes people so compelled to tell everyone that they think she's not attractive. Just feels like I've heard it about her more than any other character lol

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uncanny valley

it's not only her, every NPC in the game suffers. They have super detailed faces but they look soulless, and Aloy is the main character

Xaszatm said:

You know, as a side note, I wonder what color would work for both the inferior light them as well as the superior dark theme. Is this color visible in both light and dark?

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Noooo

Xaszatm said:

Hmm...

How about this?

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Much better.

CoLD FiRE said:

Agreed. I don't understand why they decided to go with the unattractive version of Aloy for the final design. Maybe if they stuck with this concept art, it would have made playing the game a lot more bearable.

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Are you honestly serious? You found the game unbearable to play because Aloy didn't meet your standards of attractiveness?

Their reasoning for not going with this concept really makes no sense to me. Her face in the concept art looks a lot more believable than the potato face we got.

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A stylized Disney cartoon face is more believable than a realistic person? You're gonna need to explain this.

Morrigan said:

A stylized Disney cartoon face is more believable than a realistic person? You're gonna need to explain this.

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Thank you! Yeah, that older concept art reminds me so much of a Barbie doll/Disney princess face. It is weird. Weird weird weird.

LightEntite said:

uncanny valley

it's not only her, every NPC in the game suffers. They have super detailed faces but they look soulless, and Aloy is the main character

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Only character in HZD that wasn't programmed a soul was kid Aloy, Capcom couldn't even capture that shit in RE.

empty feat said:

Probably because she looks about 13 in this concept art.

Question; why exactly did you feel the game was unbearable to play just because you didn't find Aloy attractive?

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Morrigan said:

Noooo

Much better.


Are you honestly serious? You found the game unbearable to play because Aloy didn't meet your standards of attractiveness?


A stylized Disney cartoon face is more believable than a realistic person? You're gonna need to explain this.

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That's not what I meant. I have my issues with the game itself and I was saying... maybe if Aloy looked like the concept art I would've possibly continued playing the game because I liked her design despite my gripes with the game in general. I don't want to go in depth about my issues with HZD to not derail the thread, as they are mostly gameplay related.

I also don't see how her concept art looks like a "Disney cartoon". I literally had a friend in real life that almost resembled the Aloy in the concept art. So yeah, she's very believable to me.

Apologies Morrigan

kaytee said:

I hate recommending a game to a friend and having to add, "just a warning, there's some gross fanservice" or "it's great but this ONE character's outfit..."

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I find this happening with anime recommendations too. Otherwise solid shows that seem to feel the need to fill a fanservice quota.

Curious,
Thoughts on Sasha from Severed?

CoLD FiRE said:

Agreed. I don't understand why they decided to go with the unattractive version of Aloy for the final design. Maybe if they stuck with this concept art, it would have made playing the game a lot more bearable.

Their reasoning for not going with this concept really makes no sense to me. Her face in the concept art looks a lot more believable than the potato face we got.

Yes, I'm still salty we didn't get this version of her.

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That concept art always came across as overtly "pretty girl" pin-up style designs, almost like the direction you see in something like Overwatch. Which as its own thing is absolutely valid, but I think that goes against the characterization and setting they tried to build with Zero Dawn.

If you're upset that a female character is too "potato faced" to be pretty enough for you to enjoy playing, the game wasn't catering to you. Phrasing it as the dev choosing the "unattractive version of Aloy" is either ham-fisted wording or really revealing something disgusting about how you justify the presence of female designs in games. I prefer stylized looks myself (and they age so much better in retrospect), but those early designs just looked... both generic in some sense but also out-of-place. There are obvious reasons they got away from those designs.

Why is it even a problem that you can't fap to the main character anyway? I didn't have a problem not fapping to all the male leads over the decades. Aloy wasn't my type either, but calling her an ugly potato face is absurd. She's not ugly.

BTW, where are all the "Bu... but I have a friend irl who is a girl who looks like this (masive knockers) arguments now?" Where has all that serious concern for shaming a female character's physical attributes gone to?