I think in the original plot Elsa was supposed to be the Villian - that actually could be leftover elements from that idea.
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Why women criticise sexualised character designs (READ OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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I'm sorry are we talking about the same Jasmine? Big nose Jasmine?
It says a lot that by "big nose Jasmin" you mean "humanly sized nose Jasmin" (also, alien-sized eyes Jasmin, which is the point). Seriously, if you don't see Jasmin's eyes as abnormally large for her face, you've lost all sense of proportion, pun intended.
And don't let me get started on her waist...
She is a cartoon character, she does not need to be realistically proportioned. Aladdin is relatively proportional, but for example, Jafar is very oddly proportioned.
That is such a semantical argument.
I am tho,
I mean my girlfriend acts and and looks way younger than she is (24 but often confused to be 16)
And all of this saying that a girl can't look younger and it is just wrong and blah blah. It disregards the fact that there are people like her who look and act younger than they are and there is nothing wrong with that. And before anyone starts I'm not dating her because she looks younger, I was actually usually attracted to older but her other qualities made me fall for her.
Mmm, I think that's on you, bud. By virtue of making characters look younger to be cute (read: attractive), it is reinforcing that characters have to look young to be attractive. And so...
For the record, I don't even necessarily agree that making characters look younger is a bad thing all on its own, even if they're supposed to be adults. But you're ignoring what people are saying for the convenience of your own argument which, as far as I can tell, can be summed up as "lol you don't know art idiot". An argument that is, of course, bullshit.
Indeed.
And yet while being oddly proportioned, his eyes are still the same size or smaller than his nose or mouth like Aladdin but unlike Jasmine who's eyes overshadow every other feature - the "it's a cartoon" defence doesn't work when the female characters are treated differently to the male characters.She is a cartoon character, she does not need to be realistically proportioned. Aladdin is relatively proportional, but for example, Jafar is very oddly proportioned.
That is such a semantical argument.
She is a cartoon character, she does not need to be realistically proportioned. Aladdin is relatively proportional, but for example, Jafar is very oddly proportioned.
That is such a semantical argument.
So why is there such limited variety in female designs compared to male?
Fine, not smalled nose Jasmin,
The point is her nose is not small as the other poster claimed that's it I have no issues with her nose nor do I think is big It just seemed like the other poster was just repeating qualities that said disneyfied characters are supposed to have without even looking.
her waist..... is very problematic but I'm not arguing against that I'm arguing against this Idea that big eyes means sexuallized characters by default.
I said her nose was much smaller than her eyes not that her nose was small - and it is much smaller than her eyes - maybe you should read again what I actually said?
This has nothing to do with your argument, but I'd just like to point out how perfect an example Jam is of the kind of mindless sexualization this thread is meant to push back against.
Between the ridiculous boob socks (seriously, the perfect conformation to her breasts makes her look virtually topless), the sheer size of her boobs, and the skirt that's cleft into four pieces and is incredibly short regardless... she's just a perfect example of the sorts of design choices that will immediately turn me off of a game.
I mean, shit, even as ridiculous as her hair is I can accept that because that's just the kind of universe Guilty Gear has, but the fuckin' boob socks...
I'm not trying to argue with you or anything. I don't think their age difference is all that relevant to their designs, honestly.
I'm saying that their nearly identical faces do a disservice to their different characterization. Ideally, I should get some idea of who they are and what they're like just from looking at them. I can't do that with Anna or Elsa or many other female characters, because how attractive (and innocent, if you're a Disney princess) they are seems to be prioritized over everything else.
Like I said this argument is semantical and not worth continuing, this conversation is boring.
Are we talking about Disney, or other companies right now. Because if you mean the former, Disney has a lot of diversity in their catalog.
I see that "but big eyes aren't bad!!" has become the new "you just want all sexy female characters to disappear!!". Also, I feel like this is extremely relevant to the conversation: https://every-flavored-bean.tumblr....every-woman-in-every-disneypixar-movie-in-the
This is a problem with a lot of modern character design. No unique visual definition, no recognizable silhouette, no strong line work. A lot of these industries are named as such for a reason. They churn out the lowest common denominator to meet, most likely, some key series of features.
Is Genie a sexualized Character? His eyes are much bigger than his nose.
Seriously Guys lets pick our battles. Claiming disney character's are designed to be apealing to pedofiles will fall into so many deaf ears.
If you mean that they are villains, I got you covered
Now of course being protagonist, they are bit toned down from their respective villains (which applies to the male protagonist to, like Aladdin, Arthur, etc to keep them more relateable ), but they are most definitely not clones of each other.
I wasn't trying to argue, I just didn't fully understand the criticism. With your clarification here I think I've got it, but we probably disagree on the point of how expression separates them based on what their doing at any specific point in time should that be the goal of the scene and how visually distinct they may actually be (I've never seen my friends' children become confused between them or express ambiguity so I think the job was well done.)
Te Ka is displeased with being ommited from this list of Disney women.
I mean, she's got it all. Smoking good looks, big eyes, fiery personality. She just rocks. Very lavable.
literally no one is doing this
I hate/love you for this
That's quite the strawman/distortion, guys. Maybe actually read what is being said before leaping to these conclusions.
Okay, thats a pretty extreme example, but I see your point. But its not always that clear cut. For example, does Jam Kuradoberi from Guilty Gear Xrd look her age.
Pretty hard to tell right? A lot of anime characters fall into a very nebulous teenager- adult age range.
I agree, good post.
I was thinking of may, nevermind.
Yeah Moana has got to have some of the most striking character designs Ive seen in years.Te Ka is displeased with being ommited from this list of Disney women.
I mean, she's got it all. Smoking good looks, big eyes, fiery personality. She just rocks. Very lavable.
Wait what, you got to explain that to me, or are you thinking of May?
I love this. This is beautiful.Te Ka is displeased with being ommited from this list of Disney women.
I mean, she's got it all. Smoking good looks, big eyes, fiery personality. She just rocks. Very lavable.
Unrealistically proportioned characters can work wonderfully in video games, just as they can in any medium.
My favourite female character moment in Moana is actually her grandmother. There's a point where Moana is on the verge of giving up, and her grandmother encourages her to push on. But what I really thought was cool was that she then says (paraphrasing) 'if you can't do it, that's ok. Come home, we won't love you any less'. I thought that was really cool after so many centuries of tying the heroes journey to success on the quest. That failure doesn't have to mean death or shame, that you don't need to risk everything to succeed/find yourself/spread your wings/grow up unless you are absolutely sure.
Off topic, I know, but I thought that refreshing compared to the usual high-pressure, Galadriel-esque 'this task was appointed to you, if you don't do it, no one will'.
It just doesn't help when you shoehorn other costumes to try and fit a style that was never meant to be. The Princess Peach outfit in Bayo 2 looks like a party city costume because of it.
Sure, and I wasn't making an argument for the aesthetic merits of Bayonetta. Only that there's no reason that artists need to be or should be beholden to realistically proportioned characters, which I guess is an obvious point, but who knows; maybe it's not.
I thought that was suppose to look goofy on her, like all the other Nintendo costumes
So...we've strayed, a lot of comments about style and themes taking over and distracting from the anime talk we were having.
Let me just put it this way, to get us back on the rails.
When every season, and I mean every season, half of shows have this style:
Is it fair to say that this style is the default style or anime? Now granted, I'm not saying all anime is this. I'm saying the other half of anime is varied, both in tone and in visuals, for better or worse, and will target various demographics. But when half of anime, every season, looks like the above, is it hard to see why people recoil a bit?
And it is half, every time. There are a lot of seasons when it's more than half, I actually think this season is quite good. Whenever we have the conversation of what to watch in the new season, someone eventually says "there's something for you, you just have to find it", but that still means wading through half of the above. Doesn't that make that style, that large eye'd adolescent focused, generally sexualized style, the default?
Let me just put it this way, to get us back on the rails.
When every season, and I mean every season, half of shows have this style:
Is it fair to say that this style is the default style or anime? Now granted, I'm not saying all anime is this. I'm saying the other half of anime is varied, both in tone and in visuals, for better or worse, and will target various demographics. But when half of anime, every season, looks like the above, is it hard to see why people recoil a bit?
And it is half, every time. There are a lot of seasons when it's more than half, I actually think this season is quite good. Whenever we have the conversation of what to watch in the new season, someone eventually says "there's something for you, you just have to find it", but that still means wading through half of the above. Doesn't that make that style, that large eye'd adolescent focused, generally sexualized style, the default?
Of course it's meant to be ridiculous. Those costumes don't fit within the context of the game. They're meant to be ridiculous and meta.I thought that was suppose to look goofy on her, like all the other Nintendo costumes
But that doesn't mean they have to look so bad.
It just looks like it was zero effort. It looks as bad as the zelda stuff in Skyrim.
Yeah I just came to accept that over time. Like so much anime is produced, most of it is going to be low animation slice of life shows that rely on having cute girls. Im not happy about it, but if you look through the seasons for just about every year, most of it is going to be forgettable trash, history only remembers the good anime.So...we've strayed, a lot of comments about style and themes taking over and distracting from the anime talk we were having.
Let me just put it this way, to get us back on the rails.
When every season, and I mean every season, half of shows have this style:
Is it fair to say that this style is the default style or anime? Now granted, I'm not saying all anime is this. I'm saying the other half of anime is varied, both in tone and in visuals, for better or worse, and will target various demographics. But when half of anime, every season, looks like the above, is it hard to see why people recoil a bit?
And it is half, every time. There are a lot of seasons when it's more than half, I actually this this season is quite good. Whenever we have the conversation of what to watch in the new season, someone eventually says "there's something for you, you just have to find it", but that still means wading through half of the above. Doesn't that make that style, that large eye'd adolescent focused, generally sexualized style, the default?
As long as we get shows like Mob Psycho and Little Witch Academia, Im fine.
It's considerably more than half (it was about 80% of all shows when I checked Fall 2017). Which is the problem.
So...we've strayed, a lot of comments about style and themes taking over and distracting from the anime talk we were having.
Let me just put it this way, to get us back on the rails.
When every season, and I mean every season, half of shows have this style:
Is it fair to say that this style is the default style or anime? Now granted, I'm not saying all anime is this. I'm saying the other half of anime is varied, both in tone and in visuals, for better or worse, and will target various demographics. But when half of anime, every season, looks like the above, is it hard to see why people recoil a bit?
And it is half, every time. There are a lot of seasons when it's more than half, I actually think this season is quite good. Whenever we have the conversation of what to watch in the new season, someone eventually says "there's something for you, you just have to find it", but that still means wading through half of the above. Doesn't that make that style, that large eye'd adolescent focused, generally sexualized style, the default?
Hayao Miyazaki said that the problem with anime was that it has become too derivative; that studios don't look at real life for inspiration anymore, but instead look at other anime. And he's absolutely right. Characters in anime don't feel like real people; they're rehashes of the same tropes and fetishes that have plagued the industry for years now. It's pretty sad.
So...we've strayed, a lot of comments about style and themes taking over and distracting from the anime talk we were having.
Let me just put it this way, to get us back on the rails.
When every season, and I mean every season, half of shows have this style:
Is it fair to say that this style is the default style or anime? Now granted, I'm not saying all anime is this. I'm saying the other half of anime is varied, both in tone and in visuals, for better or worse, and will target various demographics. But when half of anime, every season, looks like the above, is it hard to see why people recoil a bit?
And it is half, every time. There are a lot of seasons when it's more than half, I actually think this season is quite good. Whenever we have the conversation of what to watch in the new season, someone eventually says "there's something for you, you just have to find it", but that still means wading through half of the above. Doesn't that make that style, that large eye'd adolescent focused, generally sexualized style, the default?
I know it's a cute girls show, but I thought the first episode was excellent (as in, heartfelt and full of actual human emotions) and the animation was great. There wasn't any weird sexualization unless I fell asleep for a second.
But I know your overall point isn't about this one show. Really, it's just a trend right now. It's the same way we get a million isekai and idol shows. These trends too shall pass and will be replaced by others that you might hate even more! It's like how network TV tries to put more procedurals on every single year. It's the white noise of TV.
I don't think they even need to look to real life if they don't want to, but they need to look somewhere besides just, "this is popular." Because it doesn't go anywhere and shows a larger trend of creative bankruptcy (the increasingly embedded otaku pandering is just making it worse). In 2018 it's genuinely difficult to imagine a show that's not playing off a trend (or some previously popular property).
Agree on it being extremely derivative. The few times I've talked to friends who are interested in anime but haven't really checked it out yet, I tell them to choose what they do watch carefully, because it's so derivative that watching a less-than-ideal show is likely to undermine the impact of watching great anime. I think for the best experience you pick what interests you from the curated stuff, the established classics, or potential modern classics, ignore the medicore stuff and the stuff that people will tell you is great because it was the first anime they watched, or they saw it as a kid, and limit your exposure.
The "moe" artstyle has always been a thing in anime, it's just become more prevalent this decade due to SoL shows like K-On, Lucky Star, Hidamari Sketch, etc.So...we've strayed, a lot of comments about style and themes taking over and distracting from the anime talk we were having.
Let me just put it this way, to get us back on the rails.
When every season, and I mean every season, half of shows have this style:
Is it fair to say that this style is the default style or anime? Now granted, I'm not saying all anime is this. I'm saying the other half of anime is varied, both in tone and in visuals, for better or worse, and will target various demographics. But when half of anime, every season, looks like the above, is it hard to see why people recoil a bit?
And it is half, every time. There are a lot of seasons when it's more than half, I actually think this season is quite good. Whenever we have the conversation of what to watch in the new season, someone eventually says "there's something for you, you just have to find it", but that still means wading through half of the above. Doesn't that make that style, that large eye'd adolescent focused, generally sexualized style, the default?
That's essentially pandering to that market because of the success of those shows, to see what sticks.
Personally, as series go I think most would be best served by just watching Utena and Cowboy Bebop and then stopping.
Probably just me though.
It's more that it represents what most want anime to be. Utena is what anime could be, but probably won't be again for a very long time. :P
I mean, I can listen to the FLCL soundtrack any time, and I'd never recommend Berserk in any form other than the manga.
All of those shows have radically different art styles and that's the case with most SoL shows and especially the case with SoL that gets any popularity.
I don't think big eyes makes all the styles the same. In fact, it's probably even a good thing since it allows for more expression and that is a strongpoint of animation.
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