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French actress Catherine Deneuve slams post-Weinstein witch-hunt as attack on sexual freedom
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I think she raises some decent points in the article. Especially about the reaction from the extremes as a result from this movement. But that's not really a reason to criticize the movement. It's not the movement's fault that there are chauvinistic aholes out there.
And I think painting the movement as attacking men who are just hitting on women is stretching to the point of absurdity.
And I think painting the movement as attacking men who are just hitting on women is stretching to the point of absurdity.
Don't know about France, but in the UK any person in a position of authority at a workplace doing any of the things they suggest, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Yeah us women should know their place as sex objectives that are free to objectify, wanted or not!
What? Fucking old rich people.
Also that desperate clinging to machismo attitudes sounds like your typical red pill bullshit.
What? Fucking old rich people.
Also that desperate clinging to machismo attitudes sounds like your typical red pill bullshit.
Hahahahaha
The benefits of the campaign outweigh the negatives. Also, they can be fine with sexism and "gallantry" (machismo that has no place in 2018). Doesn't mean the rest of us have to be.
LMAO
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Welp way to miss the point
Weinstein is like the total opposite of gallantry. He pretty much used his power to exert his will on women who were vulnerable
Weinstein is like the total opposite of gallantry. He pretty much used his power to exert his will on women who were vulnerable
This thread will be great to see which posters will actually read the article and the letter (or a translation of it) and which ones only read the headline
protip: the letter is about how wrong it is to call women who knew "but didn't talk", or those who didnt call out in the medias the abusers, traitors or complicit of the sexual abuse. The letter mentions SEVERAL TIMES how awful and dreadful Weinsteins and others are.
protip: the letter is about how wrong it is to call women who knew "but didn't talk", or those who didnt call out in the medias the abusers, traitors or complicit of the sexual abuse. The letter mentions SEVERAL TIMES how awful and dreadful Weinsteins and others are.
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I 100% agree with her remark on clumsy flirting. As someone who has ALWAYS had problems with flirting and everything that goes with it I agree with that part.
The rest? Its hit or miss with me.
The rest? Its hit or miss with me.
I sort of agree. I am 100% behind the women in most of the recent accusations. But the idea that someone being accused = guilty is a slippery slope.
I want to believe and listen to women but I also think it's not always so black and white.
User warned: arguing in bad faith to belittle sexual harassment victims, making unsubstantiated generalizations about "the left"
Given the American attitude of puritanism, and the left's reliance on members of certain teams being victims, this is not going to be well received here at all. She raises good points however, and a lot of nuance is needed because there is indeed nothing wrong with trying to get a date or trying to figure out if there's attraction with another person.
Threatening to take away a role in a movie unless you receive a sexual favor from a woman is not "clumsy flirting." Most of the stories coming out of Hollywood are far more than "clumsy flirting."
I mean, there's a difference between hitting on someone and what Weinstein did. Like, come on. No one is saying you can't try to get laid. But you can't try to leverage your position to compel someone else to drop drawers. Why is this difficult to understand? Dude straight up blacklisted women that didn't give him the goods.
Obviously there should be levels of nuance. That goes without saying. But for the culture to change people have to learn what's appropriate and inappropriate.
Obviously there should be levels of nuance. That goes without saying. But for the culture to change people have to learn what's appropriate and inappropriate.
i think you are the one who missed the point. they are not defending weinstein.
Bit of a difference between stealing a kiss or flirting and potentially ruining someone's career for not "playing ball".
I understand that. Thats not what she said though and thats not what I am saying either.
Unwanted kissing and touching goes above just innocent "clumsy flirting".
Maybe just leave women the fuck alone in a professional setting.
From a French perspective, some of the excesses of the #metoo campaign are definitely troubling. Franken and Weinstein did not do the same thing.
From an American perspective, this letter comes off really badly, because it seems like they're equating rape culture with masculinity (to be clear, they're not).
Americans aren't the most subtle people, it would be a lot better for everyone if we could add more nuance to this. There is a difference between rape (go to prison), masturbating in front of others (pay a fine, lose your job), and pretending to touch someone's chest through a Kevlar vest (apologize and stop being stupid).
This reminds me of the "zero-tolerance" policies in American schools were kids get suspended/expelled for shaping their slice of pizza so it somewhat looks like a pistol (which needless to say is nowhere near the same level as bringing an actual gun to school).
From an American perspective, this letter comes off really badly, because it seems like they're equating rape culture with masculinity (to be clear, they're not).
Americans aren't the most subtle people, it would be a lot better for everyone if we could add more nuance to this. There is a difference between rape (go to prison), masturbating in front of others (pay a fine, lose your job), and pretending to touch someone's chest through a Kevlar vest (apologize and stop being stupid).
This reminds me of the "zero-tolerance" policies in American schools were kids get suspended/expelled for shaping their slice of pizza so it somewhat looks like a pistol (which needless to say is nowhere near the same level as bringing an actual gun to school).
That's not what the letter is saying. Like, not at all. Did you actually read anything before posting this?
Edit: I mean, not what the article says the letter is saying. I can't read the original in French.
Once again.
Thats not what she said. Thats not what I am saying. Jesus people.
Calm down homie
Maybe I interpreted it different so please enlighten me instead of being an ass
I would be surprised if 1/5 of the people posting in this thread actually read the article. Just look at the responses.
The accused are free to file libel suits, and whatever unlawful discharge clauses applicable. Rather telling that they dont.
User warned for minimizing sexual claims and victims
Lately it seems these accusers are just waiting for these guys to be in headlines or winning awards to then make their baseless claims on twitter, these sometimes random people have been given way too much power.
Men had been dragged through the mud, they argued, for "talking about intimate subjects during professional dinners or for sending sexually-charged messages to women who did not return their attentions."
How is consequences to non-consensual sexual advances considered going too far?
How is consequences to non-consensual sexual advances considered going too far?
"In the wake of allegations", not denying the allegations.
Just, no.
Imagine Weinstein trying to "steal a kiss" from your very lips.
OK for the part about clumsy flirting, but pressing your filthy, stinky lips on someone's uninvited is not clumsy flirting. Piss off, Catherine.
And then... who was the French actress who explained that it was OK that all the directors at last year's Cannes festival were men, because it's more natural for men to direct and for women to be directed?
So French.
That might be a reference to Adam Sandler, I'd have to give him that one, but trying to 'steal a kiss', that's some sketchy wording.