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Kapus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
744
Under your bed
I agree that that was nice, but it still doesn't negate the whole "lol Bowser kidnapped a woman and forced her to marry him, how funny!" setting, imo. It's an example of taking one step forward and, like, 10 steps back.

also Peach/Pauline is the OTP and should've been made canon
I definitely don't think it negates the issue lol. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw it though. It shows at least a little self awareness.

Speaking of Pauline, and this is a tad off topic, but I thought the game missed a big opportunity to explore sarassa land kingdom and bring Daisy back to the main series as well.
 

Choppasmith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,415
Beaumont, CA
I definitely don't think it negates the issue lol. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw it though. It shows at least a little self awareness.

Speaking of Pauline, and this is a tad off topic, but I thought the game missed a big opportunity to explore sarassa land kingdom and bring Daisy back to the main series as well.

This was brought up in another thread, but the new LINE stickers of Daisy suggests that they're giving her design a refresh for future games.

SMRL-Line-Peach-Daisy.gif

tumblr_static_ba52vi0pjyg4w0w0w08w4w8sg.gif


Maybe a bigger role in a Mario game ala Pauline? Or just attempts to better diversify their characters? No idea.
 
Oct 25, 2017
828
whaddya mean dragoons don't look this

Yeah, as context for people who aren't aware (though you can easily guess), the original level 50 artifact armour set for the dragoon job in FFXIV looks perfectly normal on males, but when female characters put it on, all of a sudden their midriff is suddenly widely exposed. Because that's naturally what you want on the battlefield. To be decked out in armour for every other part of your body except for this gaping target right below the breasts.

But otherwise FFXIV has been generally okay with its designs. There's likely a few more egregious examples, but compared with other games of its genre, it's a godsend.
 

Deleted member 18021

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
Yeah, as context for people who aren't aware (though you can easily guess), the original level 50 artifact armour set for the dragoon job in FFXIV looks perfectly normal on males, but when female characters put it on, all of a sudden their midriff is suddenly widely exposed. Because that's naturally what you want on the battlefield. To be decked out in armour for every other part of your body except for this gaping target right below the breasts.

But otherwise FFXIV has been generally okay with its designs. There's likely a few more egregious examples, but compared with other games of its genre, it's a godsend.

As far as gear design goes, yeah, FFXIV is pretty darn good at this compared to other MMOs.The gear is usually at least vaguely practical and (usually) doesn't arbitrarily change much based on the sex of which character is wearing it. It's certainly not perfect, though.
If you wanna make your catboy dressed like the women in other MMOs, you can totally do that.

Most of the eye roll worthy stuff in the game is stuff like this, though.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,554
I mean, I'm no gonna apologize for myself, I really liked Maid Dragon.

But yeah, there's a lot of Shota stuff in it.
 

Deleted member 29157

User-requested account closure
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
82
Stuff like Cindy and Quiet definitely make the worlds feel less believable. And hey, a sports bra and shorts would still look pretty good if you were aiming for sex appeal. Subtlety is lost. A woman shouldn't have to be practically naked to be considered "hot". That's my opinion at least.
 

Korigama

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,527
Thoughts on the Zero Suit Samus redesign by MercurySteam?

FSa4Wvi.png
The platform heels are as dumb on it as they were with the Other M version (they make that much less sense when taking the armor she wears over the Zero Suit into account). Don't care much for the alternation in the coloring on the fingers, but that's a more minor nitpick.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,486
Skin-tight suits always look weird when they have those boob socks.

And the heels are weirder than heels usually are. It's like they're trying to avoid the connotation of sexualization, but still didn't want to get rid of them??
 

DragonKeeper

Member
Nov 14, 2017
1,588


This is a wet suit for a woman. This is what an actual skin tight body suit looks like on the female form. This is where I'd start for a Zero Suit design, then I'd add padding/soft armor and pockets for all of those useful items one would expect to carry on a survival suit.

Edit:

(you can put images in a quote block to shrink em)

Thanks.
 
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Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Thoughts on the Zero Suit Samus redesign by MercurySteam?

FSa4Wvi.png
The inner two vertical lines on her torso that go down to her crotch make it look like a bit like she's wearing a mankini over the top :D Once you see it...

Agree with comments above that at least she's got an athletic build, rather than the usual one of women with zero muscularity on their arms climbing ledges with their fingertips and swinging around heavy equipment. Heaven forbid they should have a build for the job they do rather than look like a model first and a highly physically active human with some actual strength second.
 
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psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
She doesn't look particularly athletic to me tho, her arms should be a lot bigger/stronger than they are considering the stuff she does for a living. But of course that doesn't make dicks hard :^)
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
She doesn't look particularly athletic to me tho, her arms should be a lot bigger/stronger than they are considering the stuff she does for a living. But of course that doesn't make dicks hard :^)
Maybe I've fallen prey to that 'idea of normal dragged along the scale' thing, I mean compared to the women from Final Fantasy XIII swinging giant melee weapons around with their elongated limbs, she looks like a bloody kickboxer :D

I can't help but remember this image and now I can't unsee it. Goddamn it.
Oh god now I can't unsee that either...
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Maybe I've fallen prey to that 'idea of normal dragged along the scale' thing, I mean compared to the women from Final Fantasy XIII swinging giant melee weapons around with their elongated limbs, she looks like a bloody kickboxer :D

Like, her legs look a lot stronger than the usual female character's, but her arms look exactly like mine and I have literally zero muscle definition haha. Can't help but think it has a lot to do with what straight men find attractive.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Like, her legs look a lot stronger than the usual female character's, but her arms look exactly like mine and I have literally zero muscle definition haha. Can't help but think it has a lot to do with what straight men find attractive.
You're right of course, looking at pics of atheletes on google there's no muscles there, it's like my brain had completely forgotten despite the fact that I used to train at a gym full of female kickboxers all the time. It's weird that any kind of viable upper body strength on a woman is seen as unwanted in terms of visual appeal, as if biceps and triceps are something that only guys have rather than being part of anatomy. It's like insane levels of slender associated with femininity, which sucks if it then states that someone can't be strong and feminine at the same time. That's something that really bothers some (far more physically active/capable than me) friends of mine, one a kickboxing coach and the other a rower/triathlete. Which I think is why I always do a double-take at the sight of rail-thin characters with no core strength (at least Samus has that) or muscularity swinging massive weapons. It's not just the muscles, no core strength while twisting around means severe injuries, and some semblance of training drilled into me as a younger man kinda makes me think it's ridiculous at the same time as I think 'pretty face though' etc.

My wife has arms like that too and she's fit but not atheletic. Unless she has a battlesuit she's not telling me about. I knew there was a reason I'm not supposed to go into the loft but put it down to my Christmas present being stashed up there...
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
I honestly don't see much of a difference in that Samus, other than she is not in a pose where she's accentuating her curves, like she's usually portrayed

300

250px-Zero_Suit_Samus_SSB4.png


She was given rocket powered heels before.

Have they maybe tried not inserting heels, like at all?

Women must wear always heels, it's some kind of weird and stupid gaming rule nowadays.
 
Nov 6, 2017
224
It looks like they tried to make her look a bit more athletic by increasing the definition in her legs but yeah it looks like they just stopped with the weird poses.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
I honestly don't see much of a difference in that Samus, other than she is not in a pose where she's accentuating her curves, like she's usually portrayed

300

250px-Zero_Suit_Samus_SSB4.png




Women must wear always heels, it's some kind of weird and stupid gaming rule nowadays.
It's really slight, but I think there's a difference in her core strength, which then makes her look more powerful than if she has a tiny waist.
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
source: your ass

the Varia Suit isn't a mecha, and even if it was, she does things in Zero Mission that shouldn't be possible with those noodle arms

I never said it was a mech suit. It's partly biological and operated and maintained by her force of will. And most of the stuff happening in the games would immediately crush a human, no matter how strong. In the SNES game manual they say that Samus is a really big woman (90kg) and very strong, but that build seems to have since been dismissed in the canon for whatever reason.

Also I don't know in which circles you guys hang out in, but that image of zero suit samus is an image of an extremely fit person. Not a stronglifter or anything, but still.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
I never said it was a mech suit. It's partly biological and operated and maintained by her force of will. And most of the stuff happening in the games would immediately crush a human, no matter how strong. In the SNES game manual they say that Samus is a really big woman (90kg) and very strong, but that build seems to have since been dismissed in the canon for whatever reason.

Also I don't know in which circles you guys hang out in, but that image of zero suit samus is an image of an extremely fit person. Not a stronglifter or anything, but still.

the reason is the objectification of women to benefit the straight male gaze. you're welcome.

also go play the Zero Suit sections of Zero Mission and come back and tell me how you can do any of that shit with Samus' noodle arms. I can't believe I have to argue this shit, my god.
 
Nov 6, 2017
224
Keep in mind I don't think psycho is saying give Samus like 25 inch pythons. Just show more definition and some size in Samus's arms, you know just something that she's overall very strong from her training.
 

Bio

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,370
Denver, Colorado
/facepalm
It's not dismissive, it's acknowledging reality, that not all authors intend to offend anyone and that people have right to react according to their own ideas about work in question. If those two ideas can not co-exist in your mind, well, it's not my fault.

I have repeated this points several times and at this point, it seems, you are just trolling me, because, I do not understand how you can not figure this out after all this time.

If you can't even figure out what I am trying to say, after I have repeated this point several times, you are not the one to talk about what is "dismissive" or not.
If anything you are constantly dismissing my points, making faulty interpretations of my posts by latching onto one single point and repeating it ad nauseam.

I'm not dismissing your points, and I'm definitely not trying to come off as if I am. If that is how I am presenting myself, I apologize. It is not my intent, but I realize that if I've made you to feel that way, I should rectify my behavior.

What I am trying to do is explain why it is that I believe your acknowledgements don't mean much if you still continue to fall back on authorial intent, because it is my personal belief that authorial intent is irrelevant in the face of end results. I understand that you might not feel the same way, but I don't think that is me dismissing your point, but simply disagreeing with it.

I hope you can see the difference.
 

Bio

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,370
Denver, Colorado
So I went back to Nier Automata this week, after stalling out on playthrough B because 9S is just so damn boring, but I finally powered through it and got to playthrough C and man, I thought 2B's design was bad, but

A2 is just a ridiculous example of hypersexualization

PN22Oad.jpg


R9dPzp6.jpg

Why is she dressed like this? Does it somehow serve a narrative purpose that I am not yet aware of? Why is she running around fighting deadly machines in her panties? This shit is embarrassing, if you ask me.
 

psychowave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,655
Keep in mind I don't think psycho is saying give Samus like 25 inch pythons. Just show more definition and some size in Samus's arms, you know just something that she's overall very strong from her training.

Right, she doesn't need to look like Kratos or whatever. But her arms look exactly like mine and I'm pretty damn sure I wouldn't be able to, say, wall jump (okay, video game wall jumping is impossible irl, but you know what I mean!), or support my entire weight while hanging from a ledge for more than .000001 seconds. Give her a little bit of muscle definition instead of Barbie doll arms. It's also extremely telling that her thighs do look muscular, but her arms don't.
 
Nov 6, 2017
224
So I went back to Nier Automata this week, after stalling out on playthrough B because 9S is just so damn boring, but I finally powered through it and got to playthrough C and man, I thought 2B's design was bad, but

A2 is just a ridiculous example of hypersexualization

PN22Oad.jpg


R9dPzp6.jpg

Why is she dressed like this? Does it somehow serve a narrative purpose that I am not yet aware of? Why is she running around fighting deadly machines in her panties? This shit is embarrassing, if you ask me.
I think (don't quote me on this) the idea is she just doesn't care about her frame at all, preferring to just let things deteriorate with the idea that she doesn't need to maintain as she treats herself as an android or tool.

I like Nier but it feels like it wants to ask a question about "why would we/humans design battle androids like this?" but just never does anything with it.
 

Bio

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,370
Denver, Colorado
I think (don't quote me on this) the idea is she just doesn't care about her frame at all, preferring to just let things deteriorate with the idea that she doesn't need to maintain as she treats herself as an android or tool.

I like Nier but it feels like it wants to ask a question about "why would we/humans design battle androids like this?" but just never does anything with it.

I like Nier, too, a good deal actually. And while your explanation, if true (not trying to be dismissive but simply agreeing with you that there's no apparent explanation and one must be inferred) kinda makes sense, I don't think it's ultimately justified. Not saying you think it is, I actually agree with your point that it seems like it wants to address some things but never does (at least yet, for me).

I remember at the start of Playthrough C

2B is given a really badass combat suit, the kind that she (and 9S) should have always had, at the outset of the big push against the machines that fails so terribly

That was the best character design in the game, and I simply do not get why they didn't stick with that look all along. It not only makes way more sense, practically, it just looks better.
 
Nov 6, 2017
224
I like Nier, too, a good deal actually. And while your explanation, if true (not trying to be dismissive but simply agreeing with you that there's no apparent explanation and one must be inferred) kinda makes sense, I don't think it's ultimately justified. Not saying you think it is, I actually agree with your point that it seems like it wants to address some things but never does (at least yet, for me).

I remember at the start of Playthrough C

2B is given a really badass combat suit, the kind that she (and 9S) should have always had, at the outset of the big push against the machines that fails so terribly

That was the best character design in the game, and I simply do not get why they didn't stick with that look all along. It not only makes way more sense, practically, it just looks better.
No, no you're right. It's not justified. Like if they really wanted to go with the deterioration idea I mentioned they could have easily given her a broken suit (broken in the sense it's cracked and worn down and not somehow perfectly broken bikini armour) or had the characters question these designs themselves and redesign themselves in response.
 

Geese Howard

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
65
A2 isn't fighting in panties, or a bikini, for that matter. Besides residual skirt bits from her former uniform, she's "naked" with her artificial skin layer peeling off from lack of maintenance and spare parts, neither of which a rogue unit on the run receives anymore.
Not the only "naked" fighter, either. Adam only starts dressing to mimic human culture, while both Adam & Eve start without clothing or armour and Eve puts on trousers at most.
 

gela94

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
180
So back to our favorite game .. Xenoblade Chronicles 2
I just can't, never ever before did the outfits of characters have bothered me as much as in that game!!! I've a feeling the requirements for the different artists was to sexualize their blade designs. I mean look at that.

Design would be nice buuuut of course panties because why not


I feel kinda uncomfortable with this one I mean seriously not only the outfit but of course they went with this kind of pose


And the last I unlocked yesterday night... I don't even know where to begin.
 
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