James Franco #timesup pin's backfire on him -
- Thread starter Shuri
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Dude MeToo is a reaction to society... that it exists is not proof that society is adjusting.
So is it your position to assume rape victims are lying and committing tort crimes?
Oh I know this one!
It's fucking Zero
The issue with things like this is that there most likely isn't going to be any more "evidence", which makes cases like this hard to try in the court of law and is what has allowed this type of behavior to run rampant for so long.
This isn't Law & Order: SVU, there aren't some hidden video or audio recordings that will turn up with enough investigating.
There is no directly to jail because 90-92-93-94+% of the time there is no jail period.
I'm not questioning your powers or if you believe victims. I'm questioning how we treat the accused. I, personally, think all sexual predators should be condemned. But if somebody points their finger at someone then that's it? We shouldn't hear that person's side of the story? It's just an open and closed case. We shouldn't even ask any questions. It sounds like that's the thought process.
Yes. This is completely understandable. And I think that's the real issue. It's unfortunate.
Not a single man exposed in the post-Weinstein MeToo movement has been put in prison. With the exception of Weinstein, I don't think a single one has even been charged.
Some of the reasoning in this thread to basically deny women their ability to come forward with sex assault claims is infuriating.
To some, it means they can basically ignore the problem and then try to tut-tut women who do come forward by gatekeeping. "Oh, you don't have a perfect, spotless record...sorry about that, your accusations and the pain you've suffered aren't good enough."
To some, it means they can basically ignore the problem and then try to tut-tut women who do come forward by gatekeeping. "Oh, you don't have a perfect, spotless record...sorry about that, your accusations and the pain you've suffered aren't good enough."
He's not going on trial, so maybe comparing people who believe accusers to Nazis is a misstep
Very true, especially since most cases are never properly investigated in the first place. It's a damn shame how victims of sexual assault and rape are treated.
Even if there are no proofs, reporting what happened still has value. If you are called a racial slur at work and report it even if you have no proof, it may still match what others have reported before or will in the future. Lack of proof is not a justification to avoid raising the issue.
Yes. And I believe they're all guilty as well. It's awful. However, what if we just imprisoned them all without any type of investigation and then one day in the far future we found proof that one or more of those individuals was innocent? Because nobody bothered to try and get more information or ask any questions. I feel I should say I don't think that's going to happen but I think my point is made.
I'm me. I'm not a we. I believe victims. I don't believe in this specter of society suddenly being irrevocably damaged by people overwhelmingly believing victims because society at large still suppresses, silences, blames, harasses and threatens victims, both implicitly and explicitly. I do not find this a realistic concern in the least.
Is your point made? Innocent people end up in jail all the time, why is the crime that people are afraid to even come forward with the one that people are constantly taking a stand on this issue for
What is your point? Saying something that isn't happening would be bad is kind of irrelevant.
User warned: There's absolutely no reason to wish for a sexual allegation to hopefully not have adverse effects on movie sales. One of these things has higher priority ."
I hope this doesnt hurt the success and recognition of the Disaster Artist. Its a truly beautiful movie.
Man, because when I think about sex assault victims, I think about the success of a frankly pointless movie in relation.
Is there an actual discussion going on here or is it just a constant loop of "we have to believe the victims" and "innocent until proven guilty" posts ad nauseum?
I had the TV on silent when they showed clips of the Colbert interview. Franco's body language was guilty as hell.
Calm down! Unless there is a history to that poster I'm not aware of, people are able to be concerned by more than one thing at a time.
Jesus
Thread summary.
He's made some funny movies and starred in a bunch of roles I enjoyed. Doesn't mean that I'll go to bat for him personally, which I've always found to be a strange reaction. We don't know these people and we only think we do because we see their public personas and roles. They're actors by trade so being a fake phony comes easily. A lot us would be poplar and generally well liked if we had our own PR departments....
I'm not sure I entirely understand your second question.
I guess it was poorly worded. My apologies. I'm saying that all serious accusations like this should be investigated. Hypothetical or not, do we risk imprisoning an innocent person at the word of another without obtaining more information to back up the claim?
Don't forget people going the "she no angel" shit and going through her post history
A movie means nothing compared to what this thread is about
It's more a loop of women (and some dudes) calling out the rampant misogyny in this thread and... well... rampant misogyny. With a dash of victim blaming, naturellement.
His last post in this thread got him a warning because he was just posting random things from her twitter that were completely unrelated in an attempt to attack her character. And then he comes in and says this? Its pretty obvious that he thinks she's just a liar and he wants Franco unharmed.
Why do we not get this level of "But what if we throw innocent people in jail?" rhetoric at nearly the same level for other crimes? Why is it that its most common when it comes to sexual assault cases? At the very least, that's how it is on this forum.
...
What if the sun burnt out and we all froze to death...
That's like not going to happen.
Literally.
You can't look at no one getting arrested and then get scared that we're moving towards everyone getting put in jall without a trial...
Calm down. Thats not my only concern. But as someone in the entertainment industry myself movies are an important part of my day to day business and passion, so when a find a movie that i really love, it has some importance to my job and passion. I was just noting that an unfortunate sitation like this would have an added shame of hurting this film.
It's true - she told me.
It is a shame that one of my favorite films The Room has to be dragged in to this, but Violet gave me a proper chewing out when I told her I saw the Disaster Artist. She asked if I liked The Room more than I disliked sexual assault. I can't argue with that - as much as I care about The Room, I care more about people being hurt by sexual assault. Doing the right thing isn't always easy, but sometimes it has to be done. I'm disappointed that Franco's adaptation of the great book Zeroville is probably dead in the water, but that disappointment pales in comparison to the relief and happiness I feel that a predator is being brought to justice.
I dont think she is a liar. That was never stated. My responses are not being taken as i intended them to be.
What will it take for men to believe us? Genuine question. What do we have to do? I'm so tired.
Yeah, I just watched it. He would've been better off saying nothing at all rather than rambling and basically saying believe women... but not these women.
Plenty of men or most men actually do believe the women here. But a 100 character tweet isn't going to get the backing and belief of 100% of the population. That's impossible. No matter how much evidence is presented, convincing more than 90%, 95% of absolute certainty is impossible, so there's always going to be people on internet forums to tilt against.
Sure, in a hypothetical future where the courts have been abolished and the criminal justice system has been boiled down to immediately imprisoning anyone accused of sexual assault, that could be a problem. But in the real world, where most men accused of and shown to have committed sexual assault still get off scot free, I would say the point you're trying to make here is much ado about nothing.
What was your intention besides trying to show that she's not a good enough victim?
I find it hard to believe that anywhere close to 90% of men believe victims. If that was the case, we wouldn't feel like it was pointless to come forward and the conviction rates would be much higher
I want to say it's most common in sexual assault cases because those can be hard to prove. That would be my guess. I don't think they're on the same level. But I think I would be annoyed if I was imprisoned for years for something I didn't do.
I'll just ask this again which is taken from my last post. Do we risk imprisoning an innocent person at the word of another without obtaining more information to back up the claim? Yes, it's likely not going to happen but it's possible. No matter how low the chances, it's still possible. Nothing is perfect. That's part of the problem. There's no way to fully prove either side is 100% innocent or guilty, especially in a case like this. But I don't think that means we shouldn't question anything.
I agree that these guys getting off is a serious problem and I'm just as upset about it as you but what are we supposed to do? How do we change it? I believe the victims. All of them should be heard loud and clear.
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